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Yes I did. But the PCB is one of the least expensive portions of the card. The GPU chip and the RAM will still be the same as the commercial card and those are the pricey parts of the overall GPU card.

I merely stated that Apple has to recoup the engineering/R&D costs associated with developing their own PCB.

so if the PCB isn't that expensive why is the card's cost going to be high? If Apple can sell 60-100K of these it is going to be relatively easy to amortize the R&D costs. Apple likely didn't start completely from scratch. Some of the basic components of the PCB are probably from the reference design.


The only potential savings that I can see is the commercial card's cooling system (fans, air routing plates, etc).

The centralized cooling is probably a wash. the card has to have high tolerances to fit to Apple's cooling solution.

Then you are utterly and completely blind. Both AMD and Nvidia slap "substantially higher than Apple's margin" tax on these cards. That is where a chunk of the cost saving will come from. Shaving a portion of that off leads to far more reasonable prices.

The open market cards get a separate driver stack for Windows/Linux. On OS X they probably won't. ( therefore cheaper since driver development is amortized over millions of Macs; if AMD can get back in the game. ). On Windows the mainstream cards get game/frame rate optimized drivers. For OS X there is no reason to fork the driver development. Another R&D savings.

Frankly certifications for 3rd part programs should be a bit similar now. High end program used to have to certify on mainstream cards for OS X because that is what folks had. Here the hardware should be about the same for those in this market who run Windows. The overall support costs should go down a bit with more homogenous hardware ( for both 3rd party software folks and AMD ).


A significant cost factor the "enterprise" stuff is long term support and bundled/required software R&D costs. Do a better job of controlling that can lower prices.

----------

Based on the video PCB and the likely BGA Xeon

BGA Xeon? From where ( E5 list ) and why?

All Apple has to do is couple the regular socket Xeon to the heat sink. They do that now. What is so fundamentally different in new design? The clearances with the rest of the card a bit different, but Apple as a heat sink design now that covers both the CPU and the northbirdge. It would be hard to mutate that slightly to cover a E5 and the C602. The RAM is cleared away.
 
If Apple can sell 60-100K of these it is going to be relatively easy to amortize the R&D costs.

Do you know the cost of the R&D involved? I would think that you would need to know that before you could determine the number of cards that had to be sold to in order to amortize the R&D costs.
 
so if the PCB isn't that expensive why is the card's cost going to be high? If Apple can sell 60-100K of these it is going to be relatively easy to amortize the R&D costs. Apple likely didn't start completely from scratch. Some of the basic components of the PCB are probably from the reference design.

The PCB will add minimal cost, but it is an additional cost. The main cost drivers will be the Tahiti GPU (in the case of the W9000) and the GDDR5. These parts are going to cost the same whether it is a commercial card or a custom card. In fact, if Apple is placing discrete orders for these parts to have someone other than AMD manufacture the GPU Card assembly for the new Mac Pro, then these cards can be even more expensive due to the volumes. I would assume that Apple is going to place orders with AMD for the entire card assembly, since AMD will be able to leverage their current manufacturing relationships. So, AMD will still have their opportunity to add their wholesale margins on these cards before they even enter Apple's US assembly plant. Then Apple will add their markup on top, and we are back to where we have been for the last several years. Mac versions of cards that are significantly more expensive than their PC counterparts. At least with the previous cards, the main difference was the the storage space for the larger EFI needed for Mac compatible cards. Now it has its own, low volume (compared to its PC counterpart), proprietary form factor. All of these items point to higher prices.


The centralized cooling is probably a wash. the card has to have high tolerances to fit to Apple's cooling solution.

We will see how well the new Mac Pros cooling works. The top end CPU and GPUs alone dissipate over 660W. Add in the little things like RAM and the rest of the MB components and you are looking at over 700W with a single heat sink and fan combo. Looking forward to real world data on this.

Then you are utterly and completely blind. Both AMD and Nvidia slap "substantially higher than Apple's margin" tax on these cards. That is where a chunk of the cost saving will come from. Shaving a portion of that off leads to far more reasonable prices.

See my points above on this item. Both AMD and Apple will slap their margins onto this card. Plus the form factor will be sold in significantly lower volumes (which increases price).

The open market cards get a separate driver stack for Windows/Linux. On OS X they probably won't. ( therefore cheaper since driver development is amortized over millions of Macs; if AMD can get back in the game. ). On Windows the mainstream cards get game/frame rate optimized drivers. For OS X there is no reason to fork the driver development. Another R&D savings.

Frankly certifications for 3rd part programs should be a bit similar now. High end program used to have to certify on mainstream cards for OS X because that is what folks had. Here the hardware should be about the same for those in this market who run Windows. The overall support costs should go down a bit with more homogenous hardware ( for both 3rd party software folks and AMD ).


A significant cost factor the "enterprise" stuff is long term support and bundled/required software R&D costs. Do a better job of controlling that can lower prices.

To my knowledge there hasn't ever been a FirePro card in a Mac. This means that the driver development and certification is starting "fresh". Yes they will have software reuse opportunities with existing AMD drivers for the mobile GPUs used in Macs and the existing PC drivers, but it is still significant development and testing. Whereas the PC has a mature set of pre-existing drivers that could be leveraged. Again, additional cost over the PC counterpart.

Where there could be significant savings is in the warranty since Apple will cheap out and only give you one year and the PC parts have a 3 year warranty. Of course, you could always pay additional for AppleCare. ;)

GL
 
Apple also have something else, a low stock price,

LOL. Not. Lower than it has been in previous 12 months. Sure. Low relatively to historic average. No. Low relative to the market. Hell no. If folks were only allowed to postulate this ( or +1 ) whose company's market capitalization was higher than Apple's this forum would be a largely idle.


a CEO who's compensation is tied to performance,

Wow and the sky is blue. Exactly why would the CEO bonus/extra compensation package not be tied to performance ?


and being a corporation a desire to make as much money as possible.

Like Apple is lacking money so they need to goose profit margins higher.



It's a bit naive to think that the planned obsolescence of the new Mac Pro is due

All electronic products have planned obsolescence. There is not a single large vendor that is going to support electronic gear forever. All the major computer vendors have something like Apple's Vintage and Obsolete Hardware list.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1752

IBM, HP , Dell , etc. everybody who is running a professional service support org is going to tell you there is a "end of the road" for your hardware.

Reducing the flexibility and lifespan of the Mac Pro is an opportunity for Apple to squeeze more money out of the pro market.

More likely to sell more Mac Pros by shifting away from catering those who don't have the means to buy and replace capital means of production on a scheduled basis.

Given that Mac Pro users already pay a premium for such a product precisely for flexibility, power, and a long lifespan

Apple never pitched the Mac Pro as having longer service life than any other Mac. Go look at the vintage list above. ( there is no everything but Mac Pro exception). Frankly, that long lifespan thing is something users have made up themselves. If they were paying for it and it wasn't being offered, that isn't Apple's problem.

As for power, the new on still has it. Relative standard configs are going to better computational wise.

Flexibility in narrow contexts... for some worse. for others better.

it's not hard to see why such a change is antagonizing the current Mac Pro owners and why their outrage is justified.

Outrage is childish. This is more like a gameshow "Are you more adult than a 5th grader? ". The Mac Pro is a tool. If the tool works buy it. If it doesn't work for you buy something else.

The reason why Apple isn't concerned with the smoke and fire coming out in most of these forums? Because alot of it is just that.
 
To my knowledge there hasn't ever been a FirePro card in a Mac. This means that the driver development and certification is starting "fresh". Yes they will have software reuse opportunities with existing AMD drivers for the mobile GPUs used in Macs and the existing PC drivers, but it is still significant development and testing. Whereas the PC has a mature set of pre-existing drivers that could be leveraged. Again, additional cost over the PC counterpart.

GL

In another thread here I recently discovered that if you put a 7970 in a Mac Pro and install DP1 of 10.9 it is id'd as a FirePro.

I would say there is a 99% chance that the drivers are for all intents and purposes the very same drivers they wrote for the 7950, with a different name in the correct field. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

No kexts to dig apart or drivers to open up in hex editors, nor open for different interpretations. Anyone on the planet can see the same thing.

So basically the R & D was already done for drivers when Mac 7950 came out. Designing the boards would not be cheap, but the buyers will be paying for that.
 
The PCB will add minimal cost, but it is an additional cost.

The current Mac Pro has a daughtercard and it doesn't send costs through the roof.





In fact, if Apple is placing discrete orders for these parts to have someone other than AMD manufacture the GPU Card assembly for the new Mac Pro, then these cards can be even more expensive due to the volumes.

AMD doesn't make cards. They'd be contracting it out just like Apple. So adding a middleman doesn't make much sense at all. Even less so since this card is effectively a much larger daughtercard to the new Mac Pro's main logic board. So why does Apple need AMD's help for that. They didn't when AMD GPU packages were weaved into iMacs and MBP's.

Apple needs help finding and paying for PCB board manufacturing that they need AMD's leverage to get it done. Certainly not a particularly a problem for the other 10's of millions Macs they are making????


I would assume that Apple is going to place orders with AMD for the entire card assembly, since AMD will be able to leverage their current manufacturing relationships.

MBP's 15 and iMacs all ship with GDDR5 VRAM. That's millions of GPU sub-assemblies per year. AMD ships how many FirePro cards? 100K ? The whole top end workstation market is 800K units. Apple ships more iMacs than that.

AMD has more leverage with manufacturing than Apple? Are you smoking something? I think Apple spends more on contract manufacturing fees in a year than AMD makes in total graphics revenue.






So, AMD will still have their opportunity to add their wholesale margins on these cards before they even enter Apple's US assembly plant.

This is the fundamental flaw. It is an Apple card with a couple of AMD parts on it.





Then Apple will add their markup on top, and we are back to where we have been for the last several years.

Right..... where the Mac Pro gets more price competitive has you move to higher workstation products because the general PC vendors has "loss leaders to make up for" and Apple just tacks a standard 30% on all things so there is not sliding scale to "super sky high" margins because don't have to rob peter to pay paul with the product pricing strategy.





Mac versions of cards that are significantly more expensive than their PC counterparts.

And workstation cards much more expensive than Mac cards.





We will see how well the new Mac Pros cooling works. The top end CPU and GPUs alone dissipate over 660W. Add in the little things like RAM and the rest of the MB components and you are looking at over 700W with a single heat sink and fan combo. Looking forward to real world data on this.

This may turn out to be some juggling that Apple is doing counting on no software being able to invoke all three at the same time at max utilization.

Pragmatically, it isn't going to be a problem for most because most won't be able to afford dual W9000 equivalents. Once backed off to W8000 or W7000 there is substantially more headroom if the system can keep up with 700W for every just a short time.


See my points above on this item. Both AMD and Apple will slap their margins onto this card.

Not if it is an Apple card and AMD is only suppling sub-components.
There will be some margins that AMD gets. Really would make very little sense for that to skew the sub-component pricing too high. Apple could probably boost FirePro GPU packages' sales by at 10% if AMD doesn't get too greedy.

I'm suspect Nvidia did and that is one reason they aren't in the new machine. Also this embedded is not too unlike the PS4 , XBox One ,etc moves that AMD has also made ( and doesn't supply "boards" for those units either).


Plus the form factor will be sold in significantly lower volumes (which increases price).

Lower volumes relative to what? Relative to AMD's retail FirePro sales? Probably not.
 
Wow and the sky is blue. Exactly why would the CEO bonus/extra compensation package not be tied to performance?

Because it ties executive compensation more to the whims of analysts and quarterly movements of the stock price at the expense of long term thinking not subject to the whims of the market.

It aligns the CEO's interest toward short term traders, at the expense of the company as a whole, as well as long-term holders of the stock.
 
LOL. Not. Lower than it has been in previous 12 months. Sure. Low relatively to historic average. No. Low relative to the market. Hell no. If folks were only allowed to postulate this ( or +1 ) whose company's market capitalization was higher than Apple's this forum would be a largely idle.

And yet there has been a lot of pressure from Wall Street and analysts to see that stock rise again. So to say that it being low isn't an issue to Apple seems a bit deaf.

Wow and the sky is blue. Exactly why would the CEO bonus/extra compensation package not be tied to performance ?

Like Apple is lacking money so they need to goose profit margins higher.

So all of a sudden Apple doesn't make decisions based on profit? Especially given the downward trend of their stock.

Yes I know this product has been in development longer than recent troubles but my point to the other person was that Apple isn't some benevolent force for making the product simply better for you as he was arguing but better for themselves. Disposability certainly plays into that.

All electronic products have planned obsolescence. There is not a single large vendor that is going to support electronic gear forever. All the major computer vendors have something like Apple's Vintage and Obsolete Hardware list.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1752

IBM, HP , Dell , etc. everybody who is running a professional service support org is going to tell you there is a "end of the road" for your hardware.
Of course yet this is a substantive increase in that area relative to what most people get out of buying a tower and what the Mac Pro was before. Is it really controversial to you that this new design is shortening the lifespan of the Mac Pro and is a step away from what the rest of the market standard is in terms of lifespan of such a high end product. As I said they're just making them more disposable and that's a loss in value relative to other similar high end workstations one could buy.

More likely to sell more Mac Pros by shifting away from catering those who don't have the means to buy and replace capital means of production on a scheduled basis.

I'm not sure how shifting as you say or to put it better fragmenting your market helps you sell more but ok.


Apple never pitched the Mac Pro as having longer service life than any other Mac. Go look at the vintage list above. ( there is no everything but Mac Pro exception). Frankly, that long lifespan thing is something users have made up themselves. If they were paying for it and it wasn't being offered, that isn't Apple's problem.

Again I don't think it's controversial to say the Mac Pro is more disposable now than it was and does not have the same lifecycle value of a comparable product from another manufacturer in the same workstation market. But I think your comment here misses my broader point about the value in general the Mac Pro use to have to where it is now with this design. It's not simply about the lifecycle but also the flexibility and cost to upgrade.

As for power, the new on still has it. Relative standard configs are going to better computational wise.

Debatable. The early piece on this website wasn't impressive. Though those don't account for the increase in GPU and yes we will need to see code written to take advantage of that. But the step down from 2 to 1 CPU, less ram slots, and lack of PCIe all seem to be disappointing trade-offs for a lot of people on these forums. In other words it may be power but it may not be the power people want or need.

Outrage is childish. This is more like a gameshow "Are you more adult than a 5th grader? ". The Mac Pro is a tool. If the tool works buy it. If it doesn't work for you buy something else.

The reason why Apple isn't concerned with the smoke and fire coming out in most of these forums? Because alot of it is just that.

Meh are you really going to take a bat to my choice of adjective? Outrage, disappointment, disapproval, anger, frustration - whatever. Most Mac Pro owners have been loyal to Apple. They need to, their business or projects depend on it. Is it really that childish to vocalize this frustration when Apple seems pretty careless with the relationship, no regular updates, bad updates, final cut pro x, etc? Usually consumers letting companies know when they've slipped up is a good thing because it yields them better products.

In general I'm kind of surprised and disappointed by the attitude and antagonism of your post. It also doesn't seem like you read the post I was responding to. I've read more than a couple of your thoughts on this new mac pro most of which seem less than favorable and usually your responses to posts are measured, constructive, and calm so I'm kind of at a loss for all the LOL's, sky is blue sarcasm, and GTFO kiddies kind of ending.
 
no one is forced to buy this machine - i'm glad that
apple continues their pro line, and that's all that matters
 
Its fair to say that the utmost majority of the MP users are negative about this new MP to say the least. Do you guys think the MP developers and big shots at apple are aware of all this negativity and what do you think would be their reaction to all this?

Might all this justified criticism be a reason for apple to still do a few last-minute changes to the new MP before releasing it or are they just going to sit this one out with the risk of losing even more Pro users to the competition.

Has Apple really screwed up on this one, would there have been some kind of a crisis meeting saying "ok guys i think we screwed up on this one and went a bit to far on this one, the people are not buying into the ************ this time"

Your statistical analysis of the new Mac Pro response needs careful reconsideration.
 
There are several sub groups of Mac Pro users and related boxes that complain that basically can be tossed out.

a. the Hackintosh folks. Those who complain that they can always grab their trusty screwdriver and build something better than the Mac Pro (current or new one) aren't going to move Apple's strategy. The complaints that are indirectly about the impact the funding stream of keeping the hacked drivers work going, Apple isn't loosing sleep over those. (those folks aren't customers and don't want to be customers. )

Is Apple going to completely shut down Hackintosh? No. However, they also aren't going to proactively enable it either.


b. A large chunk of the xMac folks. A substantial fraction of folks who constantly complain about the Mac Pro don't really want the Mac Pro. The primary xMac offering right now is older/used Mac Pro because it meets one of most requested xMac feature; lower price. Folks complaining about how the used market is going to change long term. Again this folks are primarily non Apple customers.

A large fraction of the "lower cost" complaints were coached as "smaller" (and therefore should be cheaper) ones. Apple more than shrunk the size, but they have left the higher BOM costs in. That mean there won't be a huge shift in price.

See I have to disagree with these points - though maybe I fit in with the 'small' chunk of xMac folks you're talking about!

I used to own an iMac several years ago - I liked it, got bored of how quickly it went out of spec, and realised I could build a much better Wintel PC for what the iMac would sell for - and besides, Windows 7 had just come out and was a good product. So I jumped ship.

However Windows 8 has infuriated me so much, I began to do some reading up on building a Hackintosh and did just that - and have ended up with a perfectly working Hackintosh running the latest version of Mountain Lion - and it flies, and everything works. And it just makes me appreciate how much better Mountain Lion is, than Windows 8.

Based on that - I'd like to 'reward' Apple with my custom again. I like the look of the Mac Pro. The iMac doesn't interest me as I don't want their choice of screens - and I don't want a Mac Mini as they're too weedy in the GPU department. Therefore I'd consider myself an ideal customer for an xMac. My only hope is they make an SKU of the Mac Pro that appeals to folks like me - I can't afford a full on 'pro spec' system but something more entry level would be within my reach, and I will spend the money if they do.
 
Because it ties executive compensation more to the whims of analysts and quarterly movements of the stock price at the expense of long term thinking not subject to the whims of the market.

There is nothing that mandates that performance compensation be tightly coupled to short term financial instruments. Performance should be tied to metrics that actually measure performance. Once of the principle problems with how the CEO compensation is actually implemented is that it is hooked to performance the primary strategic duties of an executive, but hooked to things that look like they are measuring performance (while actually more so measuring short range tactical decisions).


It aligns the CEO's interest toward short term traders, at the expense of the company as a whole, as well as long-term holders of the stock.

The absolutely trivial adjustment to that is to hook compensate to long term stock prices. Problem solved.



And yet there has been a lot of pressure from Wall Street and analysts to see that stock rise again.

Wall Street would have you pimp your grandmother out on a corner if it would make a quick buck.

the primary problem Wall Street has had is Apple sitting on a giant stockpile of money and not doing any productive with it other than just growing it bigger.

Wall Street isn't the problem as much as Apple employees whose either options or stock grants may be close to underwater. That was a flawed HR compensation problem ( issuing hyper inflated options/grants to employees).

Long term there are several forces that put pressure on Apple's stock price to go up. Short term it isn't a big issue. This Mac Pro as a short term gimmick to boost stock price is a joke. It will do no such thing.




So all of a sudden Apple doesn't make decisions based on profit? Especially given the downward trend of their stock.

The stock was irrationally prices by the market. There is no reason to loose tons of sleep over that. Eventually the correction was going to come because in the long run the irrational players tend not to win out in the market.

Apple makes GOBS of profit. They have money coming out of their eyeballs. Pragmatically Apple sits on top of one the world's largest hedge funds ( probably the largest single owner privately held one). The point is they ALREADY make a profit. They don't need new gimmicks to make more profit. What they make now is plenty.

Yes I know this product has been in development longer than recent troubles but my point to the other person was that Apple isn't some benevolent force for making the product simply better for you as he was arguing but better for themselves. Disposability certainly plays into that.

It isn't a disposable product. The characterization that this is in the same category tissuess , toothbrush , etc. is just spin.

There is no reason why a vendor can't make a profit and deliver a better product. It is just spin to couch that as mutually conflicting goals/objectives.


Is it really controversial to you that this new design is shortening the lifespan of the Mac Pro and is a step away from what the rest of the market standard is in terms of lifespan of such a high end product.

The lifespan of the new Mac Pro isn't going to get any shorter. The current one wasn't longer than Apple's standard support policy and they new one isn't going to be any shorter.

For users whose workload has largely plateaued relative to technology the Mac Pro will work just fine. Your implicit assertion that the Mac Pro usage lifecycle is only determined by those users who have a very high turn over in components is what is totally unsubstantiated. Standard depreciation typically lead to machines being cycled every 3-5 years. Those are bigger factors in the market than someone who needs to change GPU cards about as often as they buy a new item of clothing.




I'm not sure how shifting as you say or to put it better fragmenting your market helps you sell more but ok.

It isn't fragmenting the market as much as focusing on specific set of customers. Frankly it is more fragmented to chase after "everybody" with a machine that tries to do "everything".


. But I think your comment here misses my broader point about the value in general the Mac Pro use to have to where it is now with this design. It's not simply about the lifecycle but also the flexibility and cost to upgrade.

Outside of GPUs cards where is the major difference between this and other single CPU package workstations? Note the above doesn't include form over function.


Debatable. The early piece on this website wasn't impressive. Though those don't account for the increase in GPU and yes we will need to see code written to take advantage of that. But the step down from 2 to 1 CPU, less ram slots, and lack of PCIe all seem to be disappointing trade-offs for a lot of people on these forums.

The number of CPU sockets ( and associated DIMMs ) slots has little to with the major changes in design. If Apple is pulling out of the dual socket market whether this new Mac Pro is cylinder or rectangular shape does make that much of a difference. Lost of those other system vendors sell workstations variants without dual CPU sockets.

If alot of people on these forums were buying dual package Mac Pros they'd still be around. They weren't. Far more folks bought the single package version for numerous reasons.

that has absolutely nothing to do with Apple gimmicks to goose profits as the primary actors were and are the buyers not the seller.

Is Apple looking to focus on products on growing markets. Absolutely, purely a short term strategy? No. (e.g, the AppleTV which is much bigger now, but Apple pursued that for several years ).


Meh are you really going to take a bat to my choice of adjective? Outrage, disappointment, disapproval, anger, frustration - whatever. Most Mac Pro owners have been loyal to Apple.

Sigh, the "Apple owes us, we saved Apple" narcissistic cow manure. Whatever.


Is it really that childish to vocalize this frustration when Apple seems pretty careless with the relationship, no regular updates, bad updates, final cut pro x, etc?

communicating with apple with constructive feedback and vocalizing frustration/outrage are not the same thing. It actually is childish to conflate those two very different concepts.


In general I'm kind of surprised and disappointed by the attitude and antagonism of your post. It also doesn't seem like you read the post I was responding to.

Not sure why surprised. I'm pretty much on the anti FUD/blowing smoke side for whatever direction. I read the post. The characterization though of Apple's stock being low is just false. Likewise your characterization of the Mac Pro as a disposable product. It isn't. And yes the bulk of most CEOs compensation packages is based on performance. Do many of them meddle with the metrics used to measure performance? Yes. However, tht doesn't really make it non performance related.
 
The absolutely trivial adjustment to that is to hook compensate to long term stock prices. Problem solved.

A "trivial adjustment" that very few companies have successfully done. A concern that comes to mind immediately:

1. How are you going to adjust it? At best, yearly compensation is evaluated yearly - you cannot see into the long term future of the stock price (if you can, stop posting on the forum and go get rich), so how do you set compensation in the here and now?

2. If you use the historical performance of the stock, how do you deal with both the run-up until historical performance is obtained (for example, if you want to peg it to the 5 year performance of the stock, what do you do for the first 5 years?).

I'd suggest its far from trivial, or it would be done successfully far more often. Or, at the same time, if it is really trivial, it shouldn't be hard to show, rather than be left as an exercise to the reader.

That being said, I do agree that the Mac Pro being a stock price stunt is an absurd idea. If nothing else, WWDC was greeted this year by a fog of failing to understand that it's not a consumer conference by an awful lot of the mainstream financial press, and the Pro in particular being met with "It's pretty and all, but where's the new iPhone?"
 
No, I don't think so, but some people (including myself) are very disappointed.
I am still simmering about the June 2012 fiasco.



And therein lies the problem, 3 years for a computer that just isn't going to work for me.
Oh well, I've got a new computer so I'm happy.

Yes, I can certainly understand that.

To me, in my situation, the new Mac Pro concept seems so brilliant; separate the processor and graphics capabilities from storage, etc. But I am moving up from a Mac Mini being used for Adobe CS6 for pretty standard photo and video processing and Indesign and Illustrator, not heavy duty animation processing or anything like that. I don't need to customize since what Apple is offering is fine for my little company.

A few years from now when (if) I do want to upgrade, I can upgrade the processor and graphics units together without having to change storage, drives, etc. all of which will be separate units. Just plug them into the new Mac Pro unit. I would probably want new graphics capability with a processor upgrade I would think. I have about 26,000 RAW images I work with and about 1,600 video clips at any time. I sure appreciate the best available graphics capability! can't wait for one of those 4K displays, if I can afford it!

Obviously, however, I simply lack knowledge of the kinds of things that cannot be accommodated by the new design. I guess if you really need CUDA support or something in that category the new design will not work for users in this group.

When I moved away from the Windows platform to Apple in 2009 the tradeoff I made was away from highly customized equipment that was glitch-ridden and unstable ("NTLDR is missing" every month or so) to the "Have it Our Way" Apple environment that simply worked dependably every time. Which it has. I have NEVER in those years since had anything other than perfect, uneventful boot-ups and total stability for my Adobe suites without exception. I value this above the ability to tweak the hardware. Not everyone will want to make this trade-off. I know plenty of people building Linux boxes and hackintosh's, but they are paying the instability price that I just don't want to pay. It can waste SO much time; I'm just too busy to have to mess around with that kind of stuff.

To each his or her own!!

Of course I'll be very interested in the pricing and final configuration!!
 
People LOVE to complain here.

It's not just a love of complaining, it's also a love of argument, for arguments sake. Such as this reply. :eek:

But yes, there's a definite trend and although I see a lot of complaints, I think many of those complaining will suck it up, while the bitter minority may Hackintosh their way out of the problem or jump ship entirely.
 
That being said, I do agree that the Mac Pro being a stock price stunt is an absurd idea. If nothing else, WWDC was greeted this year by a fog of failing to understand that it's not a consumer conference by an awful lot of the mainstream financial press, and the Pro in particular being met with "It's pretty and all, but where's the new iPhone?"

To me, the Mac Pro announcement at WWDC seemed to be a message aimed at pro app developers: Adopt OpenCL or get out.

Pretty effective message if you ask me.
 
When I look at posts I look at the signature line. If I see criticisms of last year's decision to drop the MacBook Pro 17" that come from people owning an iMac or an 11" MBA, I take them a whole lot less seriously than those coming from someone owning a 2010 MBP 17".

I'm not seeing a lot of criticisms of the new MacPro coming from people who've ever owned a previous model. Some yes, but most are from people who have no horse in this race.

Granted I never owned a MP before but I owned several of the previous macs that you had access to the internals of (which was why I was looking forward to a real MP). So I was just as upset as the people who already owned one since suddenly my only way of getting a MP was to buy obsolete equipment.
 
My impression is that most of the people posting comments are Apple haters. Seems weird but I think it's true.

Apple customer since before Macs existed. Shareholder (with #shares in the triple digits). Yes, guess I am an Apple hater. Oh, pass on to Tim that I will see how a vote of no confidence can be put in our proxy materials, kay?



I can't wait to get a new Mac Pro! Been waiting three years.

Same here. Let me know when one is announced. The trashcan is NOT a mac pro.
 
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