Is Catalina as bad as it looks on this board?

[nickdalzell1]

Fact is, people capable of repairing stuff wasn't uncommon until consumerism took over in stride. I am hardly the only one but I am saddened it's becoming a lost art. these service folk today are merely salesmen. Call someone to help fix your dishwasher, you get someone in a suit (not dirty clothes with a tool belt like long ago) who tells you it's better to buy the new model and yours is too old. Same for plumbers--they love that breakable plastic pipe you see in most modern homes. Replace, not fix. computer techs? your laptop is obsolete, buy our latest model! We already see that with AirPods.

I firmly believe in 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' and have little sympathy for someone who had a perfectly good running Mac with Mountain Lion and then complained after updating to Yosemite and repeats of this on the forum keep happening. As they say "if you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it"

They have only themselves to blame. And yes, we will see this in 10.16 and forward. Forum clutter as it is.

 

[colourfastt]

Sadly that's the case with any OEM Apple, Android, etc. Dumbing down and catering to stupid people. I wish we just allowed Darwinism to do its job. There was once a time when it paid to be smart, now smart people seem to be more the minority. I'm one of those folks who actually enjoyed reading that dictionary-sized manual that came with DOS or CP/M.

You can't even change permissions anymore, or do anything system-level without the rigamorole of disabling SIP. Getting root in Linux is way easier than this. Why? to protect the users from themselves--they obviously are too stupid to understand the risks--that degree of their's be darned.

Unlike the others, I'm going to agree with you. I remember all too well when it took a modicum of expertise to use a computer -- knowing the command line commands of DOS or CP/M (both of which I used in the 80s), etc. Now a computer is nothing more than an appliance, and the only requirement for operation is knowing how to press the power button.

 

[Richard8655]

Unlike the others, I'm going to agree with you. I remember all too well when it took a modicum of expertise to use a computer -- knowing the command line commands of DOS or CP/M (both of which I used in the 80s), etc. Now a computer is nothing more than an appliance, and the only requirement for operation is knowing how to press the power button.

Why do I need to be a programming expert to use a computing device? Is that where most people who have other interests and responsibilities need to spend their time? Isn't that why we have support (i.e. GUI front end for user changes/customizations, system updates, version improvements, etc.)?

Of course it's an appliance, but I'd say really an effective tool. If someone wants to make a hobby out of tinkering around with command lines, DOS, and application programming, great. But most people want those devices to do what they were designed to do and then move on with their lives.

 

[Peadogie]

Why do I need to be a programming expert to use a computing device? Is that where most people who have other interests and responsibilities need to spend their time? Isn't that why we have support (i.e. GUI front end for user changes/customizations, system updates, version improvements, etc.)?

Maybe that was the idea behind "The computer for the rest of us"?

 

[WilliamDu]

and yet, what about all the people (myself included, and the countless macusers who don't spend time on this forum) who are using catalina without issue? (or without major issues)? i get ALL my work done, my macs are running fast, stable.

so... what mess is it you're referring to?

The mess reported in almost all of the notes on this and other sites, such as the next few after yours, which you apparently feel irrelevant after reading your many notes.
I'm glad you are happy with Catalina, and also for those others who are, but remain silent.
There is still enough chatter in detail on all Catalina sites to convince me it is still a mess and to
continue to be quite comfortable with Mojave.
My very large iTunes files are a major obstacle to even consider looking at Catalina, after reading the numerous and still current disaster reports of Catalina updaters losing much of their iTunes files and functionality.
Significant that iTunes functions remain OK on the new IOS and iPadOS updates on all of my mobile devices while
Catalina still smashing users music files.
I continue to process, update and sync my music with my all my mobile devices, even aging Classics running five year old software, but comfortable using Mojave with numerous reports of Catalina users unable to do so.
I can also access and use the Cloud problem free, which many report difficult or impossible.
I hope that Apple someday can render Catalina safe for everyone to use for any application.
I don't see that day in the near future.
As a daily Mac/Apple home and professional user for 36 years, and Apple II before the Mac, I believe my position is solid.

 

[fisherking]

The mess reported in almost all of the notes on this and other sites, such as the next few after yours, which you apparently feel irrelevant after reading your many notes.
I'm glad you are happy with Catalina, and also for those others who are, but remain silent.
There is still enough chatter in detail on all Catalina sites to convince me it is still a mess and to
continue to be quite comfortable with Mojave.
My very large iTunes files are a major obstacle to even consider looking at Catalina, after reading the numerous and still current disaster reports of Catalina updaters losing much of their iTunes files and functionality.
Significant that iTunes functions remain OK on the new IOS and iPadOS updates on all of my mobile devices while
Catalina still smashing users music files.
I continue to process, update and sync my music with my all my mobile devices, even aging Classics running five year old software, but comfortable using Mojave with numerous reports of Catalina users unable to do so.
I can also access and use the Cloud problem free, which many report difficult or impossible.
I hope that Apple someday can render Catalina safe for everyone to use for any application.
I don't see that day in the near future.
As a daily Mac/Apple home and professional user for 36 years, and Apple II before the Mac, I believe my position is solid.

because online forums represent what percentage of macusers worldwide?

yes, people have problems on catalina... just like the previous mac os, and the one before that, etc.

no one person speaks for everyone (that includes me!). and it's great to be able to come to the macrumors forum, and ask for help, or discuss issues.

but 'absolute' statements, and whining and ranting... are just tiresome, and counter-productive.

 

[Wolf1701]

no one person speaks for everyone (that includes me!). and it's great to be able to come to the macrumors forum, and ask for help, or discuss issues.

sorry fisherking but your solution for every problem or issue in catalina seems to deny their existence and endlessy write that catalina works for you.

 

[fisherking]

sorry fisherking but your solution for every problem or issue in catalina seems to deny their existence and endlessy write that catalina works for you.

not at all. i keep pointing out that people have issues (so you'd have to actually read my posts before commenting on them).

i am simply suggesting that whining & ranting accomplish nothing, and that discussion, and asking for help, are both productive and smart.

 

[tommiy]

My last working MacOS really was High Sierra or Mojave 10.14.5. My ugligness started with 10.14.6 supplementary updates breaking external monitors, accelerated with multiple more external monitor issues in Catalina, coupled with Catalina bios update killing my MAC (under warranty). The time I have wasted talking to Apple engineers (and still counting...), the week down time penalty for upgrading to Catalina, over the last 6+ months certainly makes me feel that the 'it just works' has just gone.... I'm just waiting for a actual release that functions 100% correctly with external monitors so I can rely on using my Mac in a business environment (rather than having to do 2-3 manual steps every time i plug it in) and then that will probably be the last update I do to it. The way that this is running that may be in another years time realistically. And all these issues started at 10.14.6....i have 2 MBP and one was updated and the other not...its still running High Sierra without any issues.....and in fact I am dead scared to upgrade it to Catalina as it is out of warranty. I'm waiting for a complete and full acknowledgement that the upgrade process is fixed by Apple before even taking its life into my hands by trusting Apple.

 

[WilliamDu]

because online forums represent what percentage of macusers worldwide?

yes, people have problems on catalina... just like the previous mac os, and the one before that, etc.

no one person speaks for everyone (that includes me!). and it's great to be able to come to the macrumors forum, and ask for help, or discuss issues.

but 'absolute' statements, and whining and ranting... are just tiresome, and counter-productive.

Totally agree, and I don't rant, just state facts, like "Catalina is a mess".

 

[Seanm87]

Ive read some pretty outrageous things on this board over the years but suggesting we go back to writing dos code to open an app is probably up there with the most ridiculous.

 

[adrianlondon]

Ive read some pretty outrageous things on this board over the years but suggesting we go back to writing dos code to open an app is probably up there with the most ridiculous.

And for the net fix ... boot up your Macbook with Catalina, then use another laptop to run the software you need ?

 

[rumormiller]

Music sync has just broken in Finder with on two iOS devices running 13.3.1 and Catalina 10.15.3. Apple threw away a lot of code I imagine with the transition to Swift and 64-bit only. It's gonna be a bumpy ride till they fill all the potholes.

Edit: fixed on a reboot but annoying as the OS was suggesting I restore the devices

 

[Cayenne1]

Wow, 24 pages and counting. It looks like Apple is catching up to Microsoft in its ability to spaghetti code an operating system to death.

Perhaps it's been covered, but are the issues more common to a new pure clean install, or an "upgrade" to Catalina from High Sierra or Mojave?

I can think of several cases:

Case 1.
------
Installation of Catalina on an existing Mac.
a. The Catalina installer is run from the existing MacOS.
b. Migration Assistance is used to restore apps, accounts and data.
c. Issues may be added because this approach becomes an overlay of one OS onto another.
d. For instance, are the issues then a true Catalina Bug, or due to a mush of two OS's?

Case 2.
------
A new Catalina Mac right out of the box, or Clean install (Disk wipe) of Catalina on an existing Mac.
a. Migration Assistance is used to restore apps, accounts and data.
b. Issues may be added because this approach becomes an overlay of preferences and settings from one OS onto another.
c. For instance, are the issues then a true Catalina Bug, or due to Migration Assistant induced issues?

Case 3.
------
A new Catalina Mac right out of the box, or "pure" Clean install (Disk wipe) of Catalina on an existing Mac.
a. Migration Assistance is NOT used to restore apps, accounts and data.
b. Applications, data and licenses are painstakingly restored manually from source.
c. User accounts, Mail Accounts, Network connections and settings are painstakingly restored manually from documentation.
d. Any issues would more likely be pure Catalina, or Application bugs, more readily isolated.

I always use the Case 3 approach (disk wipe with no Migration Assistant) when upgrading either Windows or Mac OS. It is labor intensive, but "clean". Once ether the direct Installer or Migration Assistant is used, I consider it a "dirty" upgrade.

So, I would be interested if the Catalina issues posted are occurring only on an Installer "migrated" Macs, Migration Assistant "clean" installs, or a new virgin Catalina Mac from the start. Maybe the Apple independent Test group (if it exists) could set up a lab to run install Use-cases to "certify" a rollout. I know Apple provides Beta versions of a new release to the community, but who has the time or resources to set up a test lab to verify multiple install scenarios.

 

[xnsys]

The issues I've seen happen on fresh out of the box, apple built devices - nothing installed just the OS and the associated stuff that comes with them (pages, numbers...etc...)

 

[nickdalzell1]

I guess I'm lucky. I chose to update to Catalina specifically because of the 'auto dark mode' feature and that was pretty much it. I was miffed with Mojave (what it shipped with) only having either dark or light but no automatic after being spoiled with iOS 13. Nothing broke although for a week or two after my touchbar tended to freeze at random and sound would stop working until a restart. It's not happened recently however. Never had a Kernel Panic on ANY Mac in my life (although my experience with Mac OS 9- was horrible, 'bomb' errors and mandatory restarts were a pain!)

 

[Cervontez]

My main workhorse is an early 2019 15" MacBook Pro that is still on Mojave and I have an early 2015 MacBook Air on Catalina. I installed Catalina on the Air at 10.15.2 and is now on 10.15.3. I haven't had any of the issues that most are posting about. iCloud and Music is sync'd with all my devises, no kernel panics and all the apps are behaving as they should. From what I gather, it appears a lot of the issues are with the late 2019 16" MacBook Pros.

I have yet to install Catalina on my MacBook Pro. The main reason why I want Catalina on my MacBook Pro is being able to sync and use reminders. The thing that is holding me back is using it with multiple monitors. I use 3 monitors daily and it would seriously impact my workflow if I didn't have them. Since the MacBook Air has USB ports I can't test how Catalina handles multiple HDMI monitors since I don't have the appropriate dongles.

Those on Catalina with a MacBook Pro, how are you fairing with multiple monitors?

 

[xXRainKingXx]

Just downgraded back to Mojave. Catalina was causing weird kernel_task lag spikes that made my computer unusable at times. Plus I didn't like the separate music, podcasts and tv apps. Also, some things just looked uglier like System Preferences.

 

[Richard8655]

Just downgraded back to Mojave. Catalina was causing weird kernel_task lag spikes that made my computer unusable at times. Plus I didn't like the separate music, podcasts and tv apps. Also, some things just looked uglier like System Preferences.

Understand the reasons, but how long can you possibly stay behind in releases? Future MacOS versions are going the keep the same architecture and organization.

 

[auxbuss]

Understand the reasons, but how long can you possibly stay behind in releases? Future MacOS versions are going the keep the same architecture and organization.

I'm usually an early adopter, but the problems with Catalina have kept me away. I won't be heavily impacted by the media app changes, but if it means sitting out an upgrade because things aren't stable, then that's something altogether different. Mojave works fine on my machines. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.

 

[Richard8655]

I'm usually an early adopter, but the problems with Catalina have kept me away. I won't be heavily impacted by the media app changes, but if it means sitting out an upgrade because things aren't stable, then that's something altogether different. Mojave works fine on my machines. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.

Skipping a release will probably fix any bugs and stability issues you may have, but it won't change architecture like iTunes separation of music, TV, and podcasts (which I really like).

Edit: I have no stability or bug issues, and it's working perfectly for me.

 

[H. Flower]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

This is the worst version of macOS by far.

 

[fisherking]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

This is the worst version of macOS by far.

you forget to add 'worst version by far for me'.

yes, some people are having issues... just like with previous mac os'es. but many people are simply using their macs on catalina... just like previous mac os'es.

 

[xXRainKingXx]

Understand the reasons, but how long can you possibly stay behind in releases? Future MacOS versions are going the keep the same architecture and organization.

Depends what your needs are. I write iOS apps so I'm usually forced to update my macOS every few years in order to use the latest version of Xcode. But I'm sure a typical user could probably stick with the same macOS for 3 years or more if they wanted to.

 

[H. Flower]

you forget to add 'worst version by far for me'.

yes, some people are having issues... just like with previous mac os'es. but many people are simply using their macs on catalina... just like previous mac os'es.

Or are you simply failing to see the higher than normal amount and nature of complaints about this particular OS?