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Is Catalina as bad as it looks on this board?
- Thread starter patearrings
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Yup. But unlike iOS you can still 'de-flatten' MacOS by replacing all the built-in apps with skeuomorphic counterparts and remove the originals. You can downgrade back to a skeuo MacOS if you own an old enough model. I just spent the better part of the last few days de-flattening MacOS and replacing the dock apps with skeuo counterparts and boy have I missed it. You should see the Contacts replacement I found. I actually pay any dev who does skeuo these days since I want to support them. Best part is that these 'replacements' actually seem to sync with iCloud and get the same access. Some are cross-platform and work with all Apple devices including Apple Watch (for my calculator app)
Do these changes survive Updates? Just curious, I was never a fan of the skeuomorphic look.
No offense intended. ?
Since I no longer update anything it really wouldn't matter in my case. However these apps are 64-bit.
That's not flat. That's just Windows tasteless, crude graphics from the past that wouldn't be any better in 3D. Apple flat is a pleasure to look at without something trying to seem artificially multidimensional.Capable of 3D graphics (as in games) not actual 3D as in holography. Flat design these days is like buying a 4K TV and only watching 480p content on it. Flat was done before and still feels like a throwback to the '80s. That was due to hardware limits, of course. What's the excuse today? Because it's "different" and we ran out of ideas to improve the UI? What's next? a console interface like DOS? We can't possibly go any flatter.
They won't change for me as long as I have a say in the matter on my personal devices
I just don't want to go back to flat. I've been there before:
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Whatever they call flat today just feels sterile and boring and makes me not want to use any such app. I like skeuomorphism and I'm happy to support any dev who does it. skeuo apps are just fun, delightful and enjoyable for me to use. I love playing with them. From equalizers to calculators to remote controls, the works. I find them fun. You like flat, ain't nothing wrong with that. It's when companies and OS designers think we all have to think that way that irks me.
What I feel Apple should do is include both the current UI as well as a “theme” that mimics the Mountain Lion UI and allow users to choose the one they like. I wonder if Apple realizes they could make a lot of money in selling previous themes. I would be willing to buy a few themes that make my system look like some of the older user interfaces.
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Catalina has been, for the most part, fine for me. Separating podcasts and iOS syncing is a non-issue and Apple didn’t kill iTunes, they just renamed it Music. Haven’t really noticed any bugs on my 2014 MBP And it doesnt seem to run any slower.
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I may be misunderstanding you but a clean install means nothing beyond OSX is on your drive and you have to redownload purchases. Mine were all there.
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I may be misunderstanding you but a clean install means nothing beyond OSX is on your drive and you have to redownload purchases. Mine were all there.
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Personally, if I were looking to buy a new Mac product, having read these forums, I'd make do with any older Mac until it became clear that Catalina was fixed. I wonder if this mess has affected Mac sales?
and yet, what about all the people (myself included, and the countless macusers who don't spend time on this forum) who are using catalina without issue? (or without major issues)? i get ALL my work done, my macs are running fast, stable.
so... what mess is it you're referring to?
At the technical school where I have been teaching for the past 7 years we have Mac Labs with 25 iMac Pros per lab. Before Catalina my students and myself hardly encountered issues (aside from the odd hard crash and reboot). (And the PC workstation labs work just as well, btw.)
This term started in January. So far it's been... interesting. Four iMacs stopped booting altogether, displaying the stop sign. Students have been experiencing issues with Macs not wanting to boot. Last class my instructor machine just stopped booting half-way (luckily a pram reset resolved it). Students are encountering issues sleep mode here and there at times.
Windows management in Catalina seems buggered up, with really weird behaviour at times. And the default settings in Catalina are really counter-productive for developers and designers. The installed third-party software hasn't changed.
Anyway, we (students and myself) experienced more issues this past month with the Macs running Catalina compared to the seven years combined together. This is somewhat anecdotal, of course, but still. Catalina feels very glitchy to work with. I haven't experienced that feeling since MacOS 9 (was it 9? Don't recall exactly).
It's gotten to the point where I expect at least some Mac issue popping up every class. Of course, it could all be accidental and due to bad luck.
This term started in January. So far it's been... interesting. Four iMacs stopped booting altogether, displaying the stop sign. Students have been experiencing issues with Macs not wanting to boot. Last class my instructor machine just stopped booting half-way (luckily a pram reset resolved it). Students are encountering issues sleep mode here and there at times.
Windows management in Catalina seems buggered up, with really weird behaviour at times. And the default settings in Catalina are really counter-productive for developers and designers. The installed third-party software hasn't changed.
Anyway, we (students and myself) experienced more issues this past month with the Macs running Catalina compared to the seven years combined together. This is somewhat anecdotal, of course, but still. Catalina feels very glitchy to work with. I haven't experienced that feeling since MacOS 9 (was it 9? Don't recall exactly).
It's gotten to the point where I expect at least some Mac issue popping up every class. Of course, it could all be accidental and due to bad luck.
25 mac pros per lab. and how many labs? four stopped booting? and what are your primary apps?
am not disputing your anecdote, just wondering how this relates to my collabs who moved to catalina (mostly music production pros), and are doing fine... and how many catalina users are out there, and what percentage are struggling (and, of course, none of us know that percentage)...
It does have more problems than past releases.
1) When I was forced to update the Photos App that works with Catalina, I lost a lot of face tags. So far no solution except brute force doing it all again.
2) The TV App (shows/movies) now split off from iTunes doesn't let me rate or write reviews anymore. And my "wish list" is gone. This is inexcusable unless Apple knows their own entertainment content would get slammed.
3) One of my hard drives would not allow spotlight searches. VERY frustrating. However did upgrade to 10.15.3 and that fixed the problem.
4) Preview no longer plays some movie files that it used to have no problem with. (e.g. - .MTS, .m4v, and even some .mov files). And QT no longer opens a lot of files for which it also used to work fine.
And it broke a lot of Apps that I had to get newer versions for. The worst is dropping face tags in Photos and not having Preview/QT be as versatile as they used to be.
I've seen similar things - home use I'm fine with Catalina - corporate use not a single day went by without a crash, freeze and loss of work - the story is in this thread....
I'm testing 10.15.3 and it seems that the SMB issues has been fixed, but customers are nervous, the machines have been rolled back to 10.14.5 or even had Windows 10 installed where possible - clients are seriously considering Win 10 route still.
Catalina is a bit of a mess for the corporate world - and just goes to show how just one part of the OS (namely samba) having major issues, can effect the whole feel and trust one has.
A lot of home users wouldn't have had the issues with SMB as they wouldn't be connected to servers, so for them the system would work fine...
The graphics card issues is another one that's plagues macOS off and on since about 10.10 - can't get that right but here's hoping that they will soon...
Catalina 10.15.3 is what I would have expected 10.15.0 to be like, things are getting better but is it a little too late? The trust has certainly gone in the corporate world for Apple and this OS - whether 10.16 will be seen as trustworthy I doubt very much, I suspect that there will be a period of sticking with 10.14.x for now.
Regardless now if issues are fixed or not, the trust now needs to be rebuilt - and that's the hard part.
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I've noticed that a lot of the answers here refer to business use; we all know that Apple abandoned the business users years ago for the tween/teen demographic.
Sadly that's the case with any OEM Apple, Android, etc. Dumbing down and catering to stupid people. I wish we just allowed Darwinism to do its job. There was once a time when it paid to be smart, now smart people seem to be more the minority. I'm one of those folks who actually enjoyed reading that dictionary-sized manual that came with DOS or CP/M.
You can't even change permissions anymore, or do anything system-level without the rigamorole of disabling SIP. Getting root in Linux is way easier than this. Why? to protect the users from themselves--they obviously are too stupid to understand the risks--that degree of their's be darned.
that's one of the saddest things i've ever read here; arrogant, petty. so most computer users aren't as adept at you, and that makes them stupid? one could be a doctor, or successful in their chosen business... but you're still better, because you know how to repair permissions?
sad stuff.
I don't know that it's intentional dumbing down to "stupid people". Not everyone wants to get into the operating system or application technical detail nor necessarily have the time. There are lots of intelligent people who use Apple products as effective tools, and that's all they want and expect. Apple knows this. They don't want or need to take them apart.
It's like does everyone want to take apart their toaster to customize how it toasts bread, or do they just want it to work properly? It's an appliance or tool, just like a computer device. They'll leave it to the geeks to spend hours disassembling, analyzing, and tweeking the internals in wonderment.
OR just simple repair skills to fix things when they break. That's a minority and it's sad. We are getting to the point we can't do anything without someone else's help. Phone UIs have gotten boring, and phones/devices themselves destined for the garbage heap in a couple years. It's not good. Our consumerist culture will destroy us eventually--it's unsustainable. We are living in a disposable culture yet no one is raising heck about it. How is that not scary to anyone?
I'm also sick of how Windows has basically made it impossible to turn off updates--even in the pro-version. Because obviously users are all dumb sheep who go to porn sites and get viruses so now it's FUD being spread that if you dare use WinXP these days you're asking for trouble.
Don't forget the other ways companies 'protect us from ourselves' like taking the ability to change system-level stuff on MacOS away. I could go deeper but then it becomes Political wasteland territory
The 'mainstream' is a bunch of people with little to no tech knowledge these days. Yet everyone caters to them. What's even the point of even getting an education or being intelligent if you can't find one OEM to manufacture a phone or OS that works for a smart person? Everything's dumbed down!
Does anyone remember when Apple used to cater to those who loved to learn and tinker? the Apple II was intended for geeks and way ahead of its time. Steve himself used to make it look 'perfect' inside to amaze anyone who wanted to take their II or IIgs apart. What happened to that Apple? What happened to being able to upgrade your RAM or replace the battery in that MacBook? Why are they all glued together now?
I'm also sick of how Windows has basically made it impossible to turn off updates--even in the pro-version. Because obviously users are all dumb sheep who go to porn sites and get viruses so now it's FUD being spread that if you dare use WinXP these days you're asking for trouble.
Don't forget the other ways companies 'protect us from ourselves' like taking the ability to change system-level stuff on MacOS away. I could go deeper but then it becomes Political wasteland territory
The 'mainstream' is a bunch of people with little to no tech knowledge these days. Yet everyone caters to them. What's even the point of even getting an education or being intelligent if you can't find one OEM to manufacture a phone or OS that works for a smart person? Everything's dumbed down!
Does anyone remember when Apple used to cater to those who loved to learn and tinker? the Apple II was intended for geeks and way ahead of its time. Steve himself used to make it look 'perfect' inside to amaze anyone who wanted to take their II or IIgs apart. What happened to that Apple? What happened to being able to upgrade your RAM or replace the battery in that MacBook? Why are they all glued together now?
you mean, everyone can't own a computer? only those 'gifted' enough to understand them? apple has always made computers for whoever would buy them; their market has simply grown, and now computers are for everyone. like cars. or tvs. etc. and i'm sure you've never called a plumber, or needed help with your car, or, in fact... anything.
let's get back to discussing catalina, and perhaps you can adjust to a democracy, where anyone can own a mac... and get help when they need it.
I can't recall one time I've called a service man/woman to help repair anything. Unlike 99% of the current 'mainstream', I know how to use a multi-meter and soldering iron. I think it's awful that such a basic skill isn't even taught in school anymore. It's a culture of 'throw-away, replace with shiny new'.
It's relevant in this thread anyway. Catalina's issues that created this thread wouldn't be an issue if people kept what they had before that worked fine for them. No one forced them to buy a new Mac. Many replace items that still work fine instead of waiting for them to break. Any issues with Catalina are solely upon them. No one forced them at gunpoint to upgrade.
It's relevant in this thread anyway. Catalina's issues that created this thread wouldn't be an issue if people kept what they had before that worked fine for them. No one forced them to buy a new Mac. Many replace items that still work fine instead of waiting for them to break. Any issues with Catalina are solely upon them. No one forced them at gunpoint to upgrade.
so you can fix anything. and there's something wrong with people who need a plumber, an auto mechanic... or a computer technician.
why can't we all be like you?
if we followed your thinking, we'd all be on 10.2 or something. and watching picture-tube tvs.
life moves forward, tech moves forward... and we go with that if we want to. obviously, people on the catalina forum have chosen to move forward. and this will all repeat with 10.16 et al... & you can show up then to lecture us mortals on why we should have never updated.
