However, Apple's locked down internal SSDs are not faster than what's possible, right now, with socketed NVMe
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Is It Me? Why Does It Seem No One Minds Apple's new Machines Are NOT UPGRADABLE?
- Thread starter gemini62167
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However, Apple's locked down internal SSDs are not faster than what's possible, right now, with socketed NVMe
It is so maddening
It doesn't seem to be occurring to folks about ASi computers because they aren't that old yet
It's going to create acres of waste -- especially the market flooded with base models
Those things just sit there on FB marketplace and Craigslist
To be honest, most people under the age of 40 don't require a lot of storage on their computer because they use Google Docs, which is free, or they use the free version of Microsoft Office or they listen to music on Spotify or YouTube, which is free with ads. Also the people that I know don't do a enough on their computer that would need extra memory. I have a MacBook Pro that is 3 years old and it's fine with 8 GB of memory and a 256 GB hard drive. I use it for editing short movies in iMovie and also creating in GarageBand, and everything else is available online. Plus, most people replace their computers after four or five years. It's just the way things are now.
I mind. That’s why I have my Desktop to accompany my MBP.
When I need to do heavy duty stuff like multicamera live streaming, I will move around and use my Desktop. I also rely on my desktop for more intensive rendering.
For other stuff I have my MBP. The MBP is just better as a mobile solution. I’m not married into one system.
When I need to do heavy duty stuff like multicamera live streaming, I will move around and use my Desktop. I also rely on my desktop for more intensive rendering.
For other stuff I have my MBP. The MBP is just better as a mobile solution. I’m not married into one system.
if you want an upgradable and repairable Mac be a rebel. build a hackintosh.
you can go as fast as Intels best i9 14900k. add all the ram you want. as much as 256gb yourself.
install up to 6 SSD in a full size atx case of your choosing. thunderbolt 5 able.
you can go dual boot and run windows 11 on the same machine.
you can use a powerful discrete video card of your choice. GPU performance on all M silicon Macs is its biggest weak spot.
you can go as fast as Intels best i9 14900k. add all the ram you want. as much as 256gb yourself.
install up to 6 SSD in a full size atx case of your choosing. thunderbolt 5 able.
you can go dual boot and run windows 11 on the same machine.
you can use a powerful discrete video card of your choice. GPU performance on all M silicon Macs is its biggest weak spot.
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I‘m still rocking a 2015 MBP where you could bump up the storage by jumping through a little hoop with that nvme adapter. It’s now an MBP with 1TB of storage and I also bumped up the RAM to 16 Gigs. You could even push it to 24 GB, inofficially.
The odd thing is, here we are 8 years later and all the new Apple computers still have inferior specs. I know they are 10x faster, but the funny thing is that for most day to day business use cases, the storage, RAM and ports are simply more important than processing speed.
The impressive battery life is the only aspect that really makes me consider getting a new one at some point. But configuring for 16GB / 1TB is gonna be so crazy expensive that I’ll probably wait it out for another cycle or so
The odd thing is, here we are 8 years later and all the new Apple computers still have inferior specs. I know they are 10x faster, but the funny thing is that for most day to day business use cases, the storage, RAM and ports are simply more important than processing speed.
The impressive battery life is the only aspect that really makes me consider getting a new one at some point. But configuring for 16GB / 1TB is gonna be so crazy expensive that I’ll probably wait it out for another cycle or so
I buy ir because I have no stomach for windows, and no time for linux…
If Microsoft releases office and Adobe releases its suite for linux, I bet a lot of mac people will migrate it
The reason being that it is a problem most users will encounter. If you have special needs like “I need to run application X” or “I need all my photos locally” (like me) then you take that into consideration when making a purchase.
For most users swapping RAM to SSD is transparent, as is offloading data to the cloud.
Not sure why people thought my comment was a joke.
A soldered on part allows better latency as the stability of the electrical connection is greater than a removable interface. This has nothing to do with Apple marketing. It's basic electrical engineering.
But this is basic physics. When you have an interconnect electrons have to traverse an air gap between the socket and the pins. Air equals more resistance so you need a higher current to overcome that. More current equals more heat etc etc.
Apple gets away with it because the alternative is Windows, and that is an awful experience.
Why now? It’s been that way for like… forever?
Even upgradable machines like the iMac pro were designed to make upgrades as painful and difficult as possible.
While you are absolutely right, it’s like ten years late to do something. Apple has somehow survived far more consumer hostile policies like the malign butterfly keyboard, to name one.
As much as I’d love to give you reasons to stick with macs, the only one I can come up with is being heavily invested in the ecosystem (e.g., fcpx or logic), otherwise a pc seems like a better alternative nowadays.
Yes! Processing speed is important, but it's storage capacity that is main bottleneck in everyday computing. When you run out of storage, the computer grinds to a halt, forcing you to juggle files between external drives, hunt for duplicates, and constantly manage your data. This has spawned entire industries focused on storage management, like Clean My Mac. Then there's the backup issue – using something like Time Machine is great until you you need to back up external drives. You can find yourself in a mess, especially with something like Photos libraries that create new libraries if the original isn't found.
It's clear that the cost of storage has significantly dropped industry-wide, yet Apple continues to charge premium prices for storage upgrades.
AAPL’s real innovation lies not in their technology, but in their ability to capitalize on storage costs, contributing heavily to their profits.
Many of us have been doing that for over a decade
The runway is getting shorter though, if one cares about being on the latest macOS
I‘m still rocking a 2015 MBP where you could bump up the storage by jumping through a little hoop with that nvme adapter. It’s now an MBP with 1TB of storage and I also bumped up the RAM to 16 Gigs. You could even push it to 24 GB, inofficially.
The odd thing is, here we are 8 years later and all the new Apple computers still have inferior specs. I know they are 10x faster, but the funny thing is that for most day to day business use cases, the storage, RAM and ports are simply more important than processing speed.
The impressive battery life is the only aspect that really makes me consider getting a new one at some point. But configuring for 16GB / 1TB is gonna be so crazy expensive that I’ll probably wait it out for another cycle or so
If you want real "pain" -- check Slickdeals right now and see the current deals on a whole bunch of ThinkPads.
OLED screens, 32/64GB RAM, Ryzen CPUs -- some amazing configs on fire sale at $1k-ish
Incredible value
I used to mostly think that also
I've been surprised running Win11 the last 2 weeks with just how really good it has gotten!
Combined with truly "native" macOS Apps barely being a thing, switching between platforms is about as seamless as it has ever been honestly. It's kind of amazing.
If anyone has ever opened an Apple silicon Mini, it's mostly air space. The logic board uses less than 1/6th the volume of the case. There is AMPLE space inside.
If Apple were to add an NVMe slot, to allow those of us who desire add storage, it would solve a LOT & add real value to their hardware. They don't, not because of engineering, not because of space, but because of money & revenue. It really wouldn't add much to the build cost to have a storage slot, probably less than $1.
If Apple were to add an NVMe slot, to allow those of us who desire add storage, it would solve a LOT & add real value to their hardware. They don't, not because of engineering, not because of space, but because of money & revenue. It really wouldn't add much to the build cost to have a storage slot, probably less than $1.
Apple stands to lose hundreds to thousands of dollars of pure profit per customer if they were to offer an expandable storage option. This is the same strategy they employ with their outrageous storage pricing on their phones and tablets. It's all about the bottom line, not user convenience or value.
And you have to admit, it's genius. They keep getting away with it, and customers keep paying the premium.
Thank you for saying this
I'm getting a little worn out with folks dragging the Apple narratives about "unmatched speed!" from soldered SSD (not true - there is socketed NVMe that is faster) ... and then of course people saying "but then it wouldn't be as thin" -- also not true.
They lock them down for money extraction.
That's it.
That's the whole story
Not sure, but considering:
and
may be a bit of an indicator.
In the first instance, solder is not inherently a better interface for component connections. There are several reasons why it can be highly problematic in fact because it is merely a form of conductive glue. Contaminants and corrosive deterioration can be a big issue, as can dry joints, solder balls etc. Modern machine soldering removes much of the problem of variable material density causing variable electrical properties, but at this scale it can still be an issue.
Removable connections have potential issues of their own, not the least being oxidation, but typically the contact face in a 'plug in' connector is much larger than a soldered contact face, and far less prone to stress or heat fracturing.
In the second, there is not really an air gap in something like a socketed component. Certainly, there is often a 'flat' pin in a 'round' hole, but there is still a physical contact plane (usually two or more) causing wiping surfaces, and any voltage across it will travel via the least resistance.
Any claim that the Apple Silicon architecture is 'faster' due to soldered-on components is really not demonstrable in practical terms at the user end of the experience even if it could be measured in lab conditions. What AS does is move the RAM and storage so that data paths are minimized, and this, like smaller nanometer chip architectures does have advantage. This is the nature of AS, and why it isn't upgradable. But the benefits are likely not visible to us yet, because it could take more macOS iterations with extended services/features to see it.
There is one clear issue though, and that is that as we see more emphasis on network/internet connected software and services, the bottleneck is outside the user's computer, not inside it.
When it comes to the laptops, old news. Been that way for years, and not going to change, especially with the Mx chips. Apples enamored with the concept of unified memory, which prevents upgradability for memory. Storage is both about profit (theirs is insanely overpriced), and thinness.
but for the Mac Pro, the lack of external gpu is a deal breaker. They missed the boat badly on that one. And AMD doesn’t cut it….they need to get over their snit with NVIDIA, and support it on the pro.
but for the Mac Pro, the lack of external gpu is a deal breaker. They missed the boat badly on that one. And AMD doesn’t cut it….they need to get over their snit with NVIDIA, and support it on the pro.
Dell is taking the same path with soldered on RAM. With the exception of the minority professional user/gamers, the vast majority never upgrade any component… the reality is, once you need more memory, at that point you also need to update the CPU, GPU, WiFi, etc. Think of it this way … you buy a computer today to last for about 6 years of use then you throw it out and get the newest generation, repeat. I do completely agree with your comment on Apple’s price gouging on adding more RAM at the time of purchase. As for comparing to Windows don’t bother - if your key criteria is cost, buy Windows, if it is for a vastly better computing experience then you need to pay the Apple ‘premium’.
It was (and still is) worse than that. On the PC side, you have to make sure that the CPU and motherboard match up/are compatible. You also have to pick the correct RAM, and while AMD's Ryzen 5xxx series (AM3) and 7xxx series (AM4) use different sockets and RAM, Intel's 13th gen Core series can use either DDR4 or DDR5 depending on the motherboard they're paired with. The case you're using will affect which motherboards and GPUs you can use, and your choice of video options (whether integrated into the CPU or dedicated) will affect what PSU you should use. There's a reason sites like PC Part Picker have exponentially grown in popularity.
In fact, I would argue that sites like PC Part Picker and iFixit are a major factor as to why upgrading and building PCs is not the random roll of the dice it used to be.
While a lot of laptops on the Windows side are moving towards soldered-on components like Apple, it's not much better on the desktop side. Many of the prebuilt desktops you see at a Staples, Best Buy, etc. have proprietary components inside - PSUs that aren't standard size, motherboards that have unique mounting points, cases where the rear faceplate for the motherboard is part of the case rather than the motherboard (meaning you can't upgrade the board even if the mounting points are standard), even the front panel connectors often use a proprietary connector instead of the generally accepted industry standard.
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