Is It Me? Why Does It Seem No One Minds Apple's new Machines Are NOT UPGRADABLE?

[MarkC426]

I also have a hard time understanding why the storage can't be easily replacable since it also something that i susceptible to wear and tear.

This may be true in the past (even though my boot disk in my cMP (840 evo) is roughly 7-8 years old (can't remember exactly when I bought it) and still shows as 98% health).

Modern Macs have high spec ssd's which last a very long time.

Plus it is always wise to have a separate drive for data to be accessed regularly (i.e. Video/Audio).
I have 8 drives for this very reason, so my system disk is rarely altered.

I have the same approach with my Studio, using a high speed Nvme drive for data.

 

[darngooddesign]

This may be true in the past (even though my boot disk in my cMP (840 evo) is roughly 7-8 years old (can't remember exactly when I bought it) and still shows as 98% health).

Modern Macs have high spec ssd's which last a very long time.

Plus it is always wise to have a separate drive for data to be accessed regularly (i.e. Video/Audio).
I have 8 drives for this very reason, so my system disk is rarely altered.

I have the same approach with my Studio, using a high speed Nvme drive for data.

Fun fact, your Studio actually has a removable internal SSD, but of course in modern Apple fashion, upgrading that drive isnt a simple process.

 

[Lift Bar]

Fun fact, your Studio actually has a removable internal SSD, but of course in modern Apple fashion, upgrading that drive isnt a simple process.

pretty sure you can replace only, right? No upgrades allowed.

 

[darngooddesign]

pretty sure you can replace only, right? No upgrades allowed.

Classic modern Apple.

 

[MarkC426]

pretty sure you can replace only, right? No upgrades allowed.

Yes I imagine this is for Apple Care type repairs.

 

[PTYGAB]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Because new apple silicon macs are basically overpowered iphones without a touchscreen and as you know, smartphones are not upgradable... end of the story.

The way I see it, you have 2 choices:
1. get over it
2. buy a windows or linux pc.

 

[ninecows]

But…
- Even on its purchased config a Mac will last a decade

Not if the SSD fails. Or any other of the soldered components

 

[Rychiar]

Have you never used a Mac before?😂

 

[ninecows]

Because new apple silicon macs are basically overpowered iphones without a touchscreen and as you know, smartphones are not upgradable... end of the story.

The way I see it, you have 2 choices:
1. get over it
2. buy a windows or linux pc.

The “buy a windows or Linux” would be a valid way if you weren’t locked into (or in love with) the OS and eco system.

After decades of windows I converted within 30 minutes of trying a Mac. Already had an iPhone.

I’m pretty sure the hackintosh route will be impossible within a few years after they abandoned intel.

And Apple will of course try to maximize the profit this move opens up for. They do that by soldering in as much as possible and making upgrade prices as high as possible.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I also have a hard time understanding why the storage can't be easily replacable since it also something that i susceptible to wear and tear.

But maybe there are other benefits to soldering it that I'm unaware of?

No benefits to the user
Plenty of financial benefits for Apple however

 

[turbineseaplane]

Modern Macs have high spec ssd's which last a very long time.

None will last as long as they could last ... if one could swap out the SSD in the future
It's literally what is allowing me to continue using the 2015 15" MBP sitting to my right.

This should be the expectation from a, self proclaimed, environmentally focused company such as Apple, particularly in 2024+, where this is possible with no drawbacks to the product itself.

Socketed NVMe exists that is faster than what Apple is even shipping themselves. There's no product benefit for the customer here. That's an incorrect assumption folks are making.

 

[redheeler]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

I mind. Windows is a toy OS and not for serious development outside of gaming but I'm currently investigating switching to a Linux box.

 

[nebo1ss]

There are people upgrading the modern machines. You just need the right tools and soldering skills.

 

[nebo1ss]

I mind. Windows is a toy OS and not for serious development outside of gaming but I'm currently investigating switching to a Linux box.

This is meant to be a joke right.

 

[redheeler]

Maybe if people looked at the 60 year history of the computer business this whole cry about "upgradeability" seems a bit weird.

Many old companies made their money by maintenance, by "upgrading" installed systems. IBM was notorious for this but they all did it. These companies sold cabinets full of racks, in which the customer paid the computer company to come out and add things or upgrade boards.

The irony is.... some of that was really not necessary. It's just how the computer companies roped in their customers to keep paying them month after month, year after year.

But the electronics industry was moving on.

Including Apple.

The original Macintosh was not internally upgradeable.

That's right: it was Steve Jobs who wanted a closed box.

And while that after a couple of years was changed and Apple embraced internal upgrades, and then jumped on the NuBus bandwagon (I had one (two?) of those), today Apple is leading the industry to switch to small, low energy consumption computers, the internals of which are all assembled with robots and no humans are intended to climb back inside.

And the industry as a whole is (slowly) leaving behind this idea of customers needing to tinker with the insides of their computers.

The day of the DIMM is over. Just like the floppy drive, the DIMM is becoming a thing of the past.

I wasn't born yet in 1984. I know the original Macintosh was a sealed box for the most part but that's not the comparison I'm making. In the past 15 years or so it has gotten progressively worse, starting with a machine where battery, RAM, and hard drive could be easily swapped out and ending where we are now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I mind. Windows is a toy OS and not for serious development outside of gaming but I'm currently investigating switching to a Linux box.

Serious development of what?

DHH would like a word

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764341346431905860

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1763714811987366350

 

[za9ra22]

I wasn't born yet in 1984. I know the original Macintosh was a sealed box for the most part but that's not the comparison I'm making. In the past 15 years or so it has gotten progressively worse, starting with a machine where battery, RAM, and hard drive could be easily swapped out and ending where we are now.

I'm not sure you actually can get worse for upgradability than a box with soldered on components, sealed, where even the screws were hard to identify or find a tool for. And that was 1984, based on the (then) corporate plan that the Mac would be a simple appliance product.

Yes, Apple went more modular eventually, but the appliance philosophy is where Apple have always been more comfortable since it makes for a closed architecture they can better control. Where we're at now is the philosophy not a blip. The blip was when Apple went modular/upgradable.... and almost bust.

 

[TokyoKiller]

How is this a thread in 2024? Most PC manufacturers have all moved the Apple way and went with soldered parts to make thinner and faster machines.

Apple has been doing this on the Mac since the Retina display models introduced in 2012.

You’re just having a realization a tad late.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Most PC manufacturers have all moved the Apple way and went with soldered parts to make thinner and faster machines.

Not for SSD/NVMe

 

[redheeler]

Serious development of what?

DHH would like a word

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764341346431905860

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1763714811987366350

I’ve never used Basecamp, but it appears to be a simple webapp, and not necessarily just for serious developers who need or prefer a platform close to what their apps are actually going to be deployed to in production.

edit: By "simple" I mean the frontend runs in a browser or web view and is simple to use/package, not that the app can't do complicated things (never used it so can't comment on that).

If they have a large user base on Windows then they should test the frontend on Windows, but I'm sure the backend or full-stack developers wouldn't want to be actively developing on Windows...

 

[redheeler]

How is this a thread in 2024? Most PC manufacturers have all moved the Apple way and went with soldered parts to make thinner and faster machines.

Apple has been doing this on the Mac since the Retina display models introduced in 2012.

You’re just having a realization a tad late.

Not for desktop machines. Even the small form factor desktop machines have expandable RAM and storage. Apple Silicon is unique in that space.

 

[Chuckeee]

pretty sure you can replace only, right? No upgrades allowed.

No, Apple actually does sell SSD upgrades, they are just incredibly expensive.

For example:

Apple 2TB SSD Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro

The SSD kit for Mac Pro enables you to upgrade the internal SSD storage capacity of yourMac Pro. Installation required. Buy now at apple.com.

www.apple.com

 

[filmgirl]

There are people upgrading the modern machines. You just need the right tools and soldering skills.

This is a gross oversimplification tho. Because it isn’t just about the soldering skills and tools, it’s also about sprucing the right components. Which might be possible if you’re doing it for a YouTube video or as a personal “challenge,” but isn’t going to be something most people (even those with the skills) are willing to undertake, especially for a machine you need to rely on.

I think the saddest part of the appliancefication of Macs has been that the finding any sort of Mac repair that isn’t the Apple Store is incredibly difficult, even in big cities. This isn’t limited to just Apple; general electronics repair/upgrade shops are much harder to come by, but for Apple especially, finding people willing to do out of warranty repairs and upgrades, even before every chip was soldered and firmware locked, is just way, way harder and that hasn’t been helped by Apple’s war against right to repair (which it frames as a security issue but is really about protectionism).

But in general, I think that plenty of people don’t like that machines are no longer upgradeable or even easily serviceable, but if you’re a person who genuinely prefers macOS, what are you going to do? Where are you going to go?

I built a gaming PC three years ago and it was a ton of fun (first Windows build I’d done in years) and I appreciate that I can continue to upgrade and modify parts on it. But even though I don’t have an aversion to Windows 11 like lots of people in this forum, and even tho Windows is *better* for certain use cases like AI/ML, I’m a Mac user. It’s who I am. And this is part of using a Mac.

That said, Apple has run itself out of contention for me for certain types of machines. I would never, under any circumstance, buy the current Mac Pro, for instance. And it’s not like I’m necessarily in the market for $7000+ workstations, but I build or buy a $3500-$5500 system every few years and the Mac Pro was at least on the table for consideration. But part of the willingness to pay the Apple premium over a similarly-classed PC was that it was the one Mac you could actually upgrade the main components on without having to do major surgery on. At this point, even the Mac Studio is a question, because I’ll make certain concessions for a laptop, but not a dedicated “workstation.”

 

[Biro]

Being unable to upgrade one’s Mac after purchase would be much easier to take if the cost of upgrading when ordering wasn’t so unnaturally high. The markup on extra RAM or bigger SSDs is scandalous on Macs. I think that’s the biggest problem many of us have. That said, has anyone tried living with Windows 11 and its non-stop efforts to sell you more services that you don’t need? Apple ticks me off often enough. But, on balance, I’ll stick with it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That said, has anyone tried living with Windows 11 and its non-stop efforts to sell you more services that you don’t need?

Solved in about 3 mins and a couple clicks

GitHub - Raphire/Win11Debloat: A simple, easy to use PowerShell script to remove pre-installed apps from Windows, disable telemetry, remove Bing from Windows search as well as perform various other changes to declutter and improve your Windows experi

A simple, easy to use PowerShell script to remove pre-installed apps from Windows, disable telemetry, remove Bing from Windows search as well as perform various other changes to declutter and impro...

github.com