Is It Me? Why Does It Seem No One Minds Apple's new Machines Are NOT UPGRADABLE?

[Biro]

Solved in about 3 mins and a couple clicks

GitHub - Raphire/Win11Debloat: A simple, easy to use powershell script to remove bloatware apps from windows, disable telemetry, bing in windows search aswell as perform various other changes to declutter and improve your windows experience. This scr

A simple, easy to use powershell script to remove bloatware apps from windows, disable telemetry, bing in windows search aswell as perform various other changes to declutter and improve your window...

github.com

I’ve seen those similar products and articles. It’s usually more than a couple of clicks. But fair enough. Honest question: What happens when you download a Windows update? An ARS Technica article I read recently seemed to indicate that one has to go through this little dance every time.

 

[Chuckeee]

Solved in about 3 mins and a couple clicks

GitHub - Raphire/Win11Debloat: A simple, easy to use powershell script to remove bloatware apps from windows, disable telemetry, bing in windows search aswell as perform various other changes to declutter and improve your windows experience. This scr

A simple, easy to use powershell script to remove bloatware apps from windows, disable telemetry, bing in windows search aswell as perform various other changes to declutter and improve your window...

github.com

Maybe. The problem I’ve encountered is that Microsoft (in their infinite wisdom) occasionally reinstall or reactivate much of this when they install updates (including some security updates).

 

[turbineseaplane]

I’ve seen those similar products and articles. It’s usually more than a couple of clicks.

I just did it -- it truly was "launch it" and click 1 for default settings -- didn't even have to reboot,
I presume I may have to do it again after a big Windows Update

All good -- I usually do updates somewhat judiciously, even on macOS

Even those of us who've been Mac users and evangelists for decades really should poke around occasionally.
The world of "the other" is really great these days.

It reminds me of folks that never travel and end up just assuming where they are is "good/great/the best"

 

[za9ra22]

Not for desktop machines. Even the small form factor desktop machines have expandable RAM and storage. Apple Silicon is unique in that space.

It's a bit of an arguable point since from the G4 minis onwards, desktop models other than the Pro have been anything from extremely difficult to near impossible for a user to get inside and repair or upgrade with special tools or skills, even if technically they could if they knew how.

Maybe. The problem I’ve encountered is that Microsoft (in their infinite wisdom) occasionally reinstall or reactivate much of this when they install updates (including some security updates).

The issue here is that in Windows, Microsoft have created an environment where providers of bloat have more control over the user's system than the user does. Which means that one can 'de-bloat', but that unless done correctly, the user will get all the bloat back after certain updates, and almost always after a Windows repair.

It isn't that you can't fix that (and there are a few good sources that tell you how) but that most users would assume their de-bloat did the trick, and not realize it's likely to be temporary.

Apple aren't necessarily a whole lot better, but it's a very low bar!

 

[Lift Bar]

No, Apple actually does sell SSD upgrades, they are just incredibly expensive.

For example:

Apple 2TB SSD Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro

The SSD kit for Mac Pro enables you to upgrade the internal SSD storage capacity of yourMac Pro. Installation required. Buy now at apple.com.

www.apple.com

We were discussing the Mac Studio. This particular upgrade is compatible only with the Mac Pro.

 

[PTYGAB]

The “buy a windows or Linux” would be a valid way if you weren’t locked into (or in love with) the OS and eco system.

After decades of windows I converted within 30 minutes of trying a Mac. Already had an iPhone.

I’m pretty sure the hackintosh route will be impossible within a few years after they abandoned intel.

And Apple will of course try to maximize the profit this move opens up for. They do that by soldering in as much as possible and making upgrade prices as high as possible.

Well, let me share a bit different point of view from my perspective. First a little about what I do and my setup.
I'm a photographer working on an M2 Mac Mini with base config (8GB RAM, 256GB SSD). This setup has proven to be more than enough for my workflow and I pay for 2TB iCloud storage, but I could perfectly set up an external storage solution to get rid of that monthly iCloud fee (or downgrade to a cheaper plan).

Yes, it's nice to have upgradability, in fact I have a gaming PC I built myself, along side my Mac mini, but those 2 machines have very different purposes and I can really appreciate a very well made OS for work, that is seamless, intuitive and beautiful... macOS.

Back when I was using an iMac, I could only upgrade the RAM (easily) and storage (not so easily). With the Mac mini I can still upgrade storage by external means, so I'm only down to 1 less upgradable component and as I stated before, the base config has proven to be more than enough for me. So, if you think about it, you're not losing much in the transition, on the other hand, you are gaining a lot of performance with the new system. It's a trade off.

The only thing you really need to mind is the intended use, If you're going to do more complex stuff than surfing the web, checking emails or even some photo editing, then go with the PRO chip, that setup already starts at 16GB RAM and 512GB storage baseline, and is a more powerful processor. You could even game on that thing! I could only do some lite gaming with my setup. Not that I would do gaming on a more powerful Mac setup, one thing I have learned from experience is that gaming will wear down components faster because of the high temps, so I think it would be a bad idea to game on your work machine, better to separate work from pleasure! ...that's why I have a gaming PC

 

[bousozoku]

I'm incredibly frustrated with it. It's bad for the environment it makes you reliant on Apple's incredibly overpriced upgrades.

I got 11 years out of my Mid 2012 MacBook Pro, only because I could upgrade it - it was only $1200. It started out as 4GB/500HDD and ended with 16GB/2TBSSD + a wifi/bluetooth upgrade and a couple of battery replacements. Still use it as a workhorse machine. I want similar milage out of my 2023 MacBook Pro M2, but ended up shelling out $5150 for it to get 32GB of ram and 4TB SSD - I don't even think I'll get as long out of it, and I worry what will happen when the battery is toast and Apple no longer offers battery service.

Sustainability in the tech world is messed up - we should be trying to get as long as possible out of our machines to reduce the frequency of producing a new machine, as that's where the environmental damage is done. I hate the idea of having to get a new machine every couple of years.

I still use my mid-2012 MacBook Pro with quad-core i7 and GeForce 650M because it is still sufficient but my M1 MacBook Air is so much faster. I bought refurbished and got the most possible, which is still too much, but about half what I paid for the MacBook Pro back in 2013.

 

[bousozoku]

Yea right. It’s been a downwards spiral since Apple gave up on the idea of the G5 laptop.

I wanted to see the 3 inch thick PowerBook G5. The power brick would have been incredible and it would have to be quick, as the G5 would have sucked the life out of any available battery.

 

[Chuckeee]

We were discussing the Mac Studio. This particular upgrade is compatible only with the Mac Pro.

Again sort of, you might want to examine this thread:

Upgrading Mac Studio storage

Hi, just tested yesterday an upgrade of a plain basic MacStudio M1 Max (2022) from 512GB to 4TB. and it works : take off the 512 GB NAND insert in the right order the two 2TB NANDs inside the slots restaure the MacStudio bridgeOS with another Mac and AppleConfigurator et voilà ...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Ethosik]

Because by the time I need more RAM I need a new GPU and CPU too. I fell into this trap with the 2010 Mac Pro. I kept that going for far too long.

 

[LeeW]

I am ok with non-upgradeable laptops. I want thin and light, the type of thin and light that can only come if you don't allow sockets and space to replace things. Not on desktop devices though.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I am ok with non-upgradeable laptops. I want thin and light, the type of thin and light that can only come if you don't allow sockets and space to replace things. Not on desktop devices though.

Have you seen the insides (or heard from folks who have, or watched videos)?

Socketed NVMe would not necessitate a single concession on form factor, size, weight, etc

 

[LeeW]

Socketed NVMe would not necessitate a single concession on form factor, size, weight, etc

What about RAM though? Seems unlikely that would work in the MBA form factor at least. I get that NVMe should work, no reason they can't be upgraded.

 

[bousozoku]

What about RAM though? Seems unlikely that would work in the MBA form factor at least. I get that NVMe should work, no reason they can't be upgraded.

I'm fairly sure that my ASUS ZenBook Pro 15.6 inch laptop computer is not much thinner with its soldered RAM than my mid-2012 MacBook Pro with its socketed RAM. They both have discrete graphics hardware and multi-core CPUs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I am ok with non-upgradeable laptops. I want thin and light, the type of thin and light that can only come if you don't allow sockets and space to replace things. Not on desktop devices though.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I upgraded my SSD on my Surface Pro 9 for so cheap. And it is definitely thin and light. Rumors are the next one will even allow RAM upgrades...

 

[LeeW]

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I upgraded my SSD on my Surface Pro 9 for so cheap. And it is definitely thin and light. Rumors are the next one will even allow RAM upgrades...

Pretty moot point though when it comes to Apple surely? The everything on a chip approach is not going to change. So it just leaves NVMe, but I don't see that changing either.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Pretty moot point though when it comes to Apple surely? The everything on a chip approach is not going to change. So it just leaves NVMe, but I don't see that changing either.

Oh, I agree completely with that. It is one of the things that has me leaning away from Apple in everything but the phone market.

 

[brownpaw]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

You’re about a decade late

 

[ADGrant]

As far as trade-in value, I must beg to disagree.
My 2020 27” iMac, 3.6 GHz i9 Intel, Radon PRO 5700 XY w, 16 GB GDR6, 128 GB 2666 MHz DDR 4 and a 4TB SSD will bring ~ $750-1000 trade in. Cost ~ 5500.00 w/tax etc. Not THAT a ROI.
But I’m still lusting after that Studio M3 Ultra when available.

So since we are talking about upgradeability, did you buy the RAM from Apple or upgrade it yourself?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Folks who feel like the OP should not be here. They should just go buy the allegedly "faster than the M3" PCs referenced. The OP post is comical, frankly. We all know it is possible to get really good benchmarks from a hot, inefficient PC box if that and Windows are one's cup of tea.

You say "Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers." Being old does not prevent learning. I strongly recommend that anyone of any age intending to whine about RAM not being upgradable post-purchase first read up on Apple's Unified Memory Architecture and then think about how well M series Macs perform, especially the efficiency, and how the on-chip RAM is essential to that efficiency.

 

[ChrisMacchio]

Why Are There Few Complaints That None Of Apple's Consumer Level Machines Are Upgradable?

So, I just received an email that "I've been warned" that I was going against Apple's community forums and that I would have my "privileges" suspended due to breaking their community standards, lol.

Really...

While asking why Apple Music doesn't shuffle properly, I also mentioned that I won't be buying the new iMac M3 or any of the other new machines because none of them are upgradable. You have to pay $200 per upgrade per step AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, otherwise, neither the user nor Apple can upgrade them afterward. If you don't believe me, just go through the purchasing process of one of their machines on their site, and read the statement for yourself.

Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers.

I am amazed that I seldom hear any complaints from anyone that none of the new machines allow for future upgrades, neither by the user nor by Apple once the system is ordered and out the door. Their recommendation is to anticipate all the internal storage, RAM, etc., that you will need and order it as upgrades at the time of purchase. Of course, for a hefty Apple premium of $200 a step. Meaning 256G SSD to 564 will cost $200. Going from 8G RAM to 16 will cost you $200. And on and on. I bought a 2T Samsung external SSD only a few months ago for $100, so this is nuts.

Yet, all I see when it comes to the reviews is people fawning over the many colors the iMacs come in now. Really? When did the thing's decorative compatibility become so much more than what it was meant for? Computing.

Now, anyone... If you can successfully convince this thirty-plus-year Apple former fanboy why his next computer should still be an Apple, bless your tiny little heart. Because I've already found three machines made by name brand PC companies that are faster than the M3, come with 16G of RAM 1T or 2T internal SSDs, for less than the iMac M3 and did I say, they've been clocked in as far speedier than the M3?

I've had it. I don't like being rooked, nor forced into spending money unnecessarily. But it would seem over the past ten years, Apple has increasingly changed its focus from producing machines that just work, to machines that just work only if you're willing to subscribe to more and more iCloud space, Apple Music, or this or that. I want a computer that computes, not turns me into a walking credit card for an already very wealthy company (the second most valuable company in the nation behind Microsoft at the moment). As much as I don't like Windows, having worked on them for decades, I can learn to live with the increased amount of access to computing that I seem to have lost these past few years if need be.

Part of the issue here lies in the architectural choices Apple has made. ALL the major components of their systems use a unified bus architecture that allows for the greatest possible bandwidth between components, greatest possible speed, and lowest possible latency. The CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD are all permanently soldered in a way to optimize performance over what would be possible using removable interconnects. That is the tradeoff here. The prices Apple charges have NEVER reflected “off-the-shelf” commoditized pricing for price-to-performance ratio…your paying for the “ecosystem” , “fit and finish”, “thoughtful engineering,” and “overall premium experience”. You’re asking for a scenario where you’re asking the Porsche dealer why you’re being asked to pay $230K for a car that goes 200mph when you can get a Corvette Z06 that goes 184mph for $110K…it’s because you’re paying for the engineering and experience of a Porsche. Every uograde on the Porsche is 3-4x what a similar upgrade might cost on a Corvette…but if you want to drive a premium car…you pay more, each and every step of the way. Windows, and the generic experience it offers, is garbage by comparison, even if you can still get it to crunch numbers and spreadsheets.

 

[bigpoppamac31]

As someone who is still hanging on to a 2015 15" MBP which has an upgradeable SSD slot (though I needed an adapter) I agree with the OP. But my issue is not so much that the parts are not upgradable. My issue is the cost for the upgrades. For example all of the top five NVMe stick of SSD 1TB costs under $150 (Canadian). Four of those top five are under $100. However Apple charges $250 (Canadian) for a 1TB SSD upgrade. Going from 512GB to 2TB SSD is $750 on the MBP which is outrageous. How much do you think Apple pays for those SSD modules they use in their products? I bet each of them is no more than $50. Most likely much less. Yet Apple puts a huge markup on them. It's not as if they are some crazy out of this world tech. They are not faster than the SSD on those NVMe sticks. So why the extra charge? It's just greed because they can get away with it. They know many people will want or need to up the specs and have no alternative cause they are soldered in. In my case the only reason I'm even considering an upgrade to a new Mac is cause I'm able to use my brothers Apple employee discount. Otherwise I'd be holding onto my 2015 MBP for much longer until it dies.

This video explains it very well.

 

[bigpoppamac31]

Folks who feel like the OP should not be here. They should just go buy the allegedly "faster than the M3" PCs referenced. The OP post is comical, frankly. We all know it is possible to get really good benchmarks from a hot, inefficient PC box if that and Windows are one's cup of tea.

You say "Pardon me for being old, but this goes against everything I understand about computers." Being old does not prevent learning. I strongly recommend that anyone of any age intending to whine about RAM not being upgradable post-purchase first read up on Apple's Unified Memory Architecture and then think about how well M series Macs perform, especially the efficiency, and how the on-chip RAM is essential to that efficiency.

Apple can brag all they want about their great memory architecture. Still doesn't justify the price being asked for ram and SSD upgrades. I don't mind paying for more ram and SSD but what Apple is asking is outrageous. It's just taking advantage of the situation the customer now finds themselves in when looking to buy a new Apple product. This topic of discussion can even be applied to the iPhone and iPad. Going from 128GB to 1TB on the iPad Pro doubles the cost of the iPad. That's insane. Even worse for a 2TB iPad pro.

 

[za9ra22]

Apple can brag all they want about their great memory architecture. Still doesn't justify the price being asked for ram and SSD upgrades. I don't mind paying for more ram and SSD but what Apple is asking is outrageous. It's just taking advantage of the situation the customer now finds themselves in when looking to buy a new Apple product. This topic of discussion can even be applied to the iPhone and iPad. Going from 128GB to 1TB on the iPad Pro doubles the cost of the iPad. That's insane. Even worse for a 2TB iPad pro.

Nothing can really justify the premium Apple demand from customers for RAM and storage upgrades, and for absolute certain, if customers refused to pay, Apple's pricing policy would change. They charge what they believe the market will bear, and so far it appears their judgement is right. Their fiscal duty is to company shareholders, not the public at large or their customers, so as long as we are prepared to pay, they are doing the job they're supposed to be doing.

More profit means more money paid to shareholders in dividends, and more 'value' added to the stock they hold. The problem here is the system of corporate governance and accountability in general, not with Apple for fitting into the rules. You can make the same complaints about almost any big, profitable, public company, including 'big oil', energy suppliers and heaven knows what else.

Is there a Teslarumors.com site where we can all pile in and complain about their exorbitant prices and the ridiculous over-charging for battery/range, on-board systems and 'auto pilot' upgrades?

 

[MajorFubar]

MacRumors is not the official Apple community forum.

No sh-t sherlock. OP was referring to being warned of inappropriate behaviour on the official Apple Community Forum. Not here. If people here got warnings for questioning Apple's logic you'd be looking a forum with about 12 members.