whilst not ignoring the rest of the mis-info. you posted (it'll wait) care to shed some light how you come by those figures?
I'd hazard a guess its not even close...
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Is it safe to buy new 27 inch iMac i7?
- Thread starter xboxbuckeye
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whilst not ignoring the rest of the mis-info. you posted (it'll wait) care to shed some light how you come by those figures?
I'd hazard a guess its not even close...
Apple hating eh?
First of all, yes Apple is dealing with the issue. They have delayed the shipping time as a result.
Simply put, it has nothing to do with Apple, but with their shipping company. I assure you that this issue will be fixed soon.
Also Windows 7 works fine. However, if you have the 27" model you have to disable the default ATi driver until you have the Apple one installed, since the default driver included with Windows 7 does not support the ATi 4850. Also, if you're running the 64 bit version the bluetooth driver can be buggy, so make sure you disable "Allow this device to sleep to save power". This should fix all of the bugs.
Oh, and who said he was going to run Windows 7? Well, yes he did, but who said it would be his main OS?
I went and did some research. The iMac for what it is, is in fact pretty damn good value for money. Go find me the specs of a PC with identical hardware (that includes the same resolution screen, same CPU, same everything), plus the trouble of having to remove all of the bollocks included with Windows.
OK, if Windows is going to be your main OS, and you're willing to poke around, go for it, but for the average consumer a Mac is a great computer.
Hell, the only reason I bought a Mac was because of Final Cut Pro and Logic, but the software truly is great.
First of all, how many would have a third defect, which we've seen reported repeatedly? This certainly suggests a failure rate of greater than the one percent you posit would result in a hundred double problems based on a fabricated number of shipped machines - if you're going to trot out statistics don't use manipulative contrivances. And when you say "for the overwhelming majority these machines are working great" with no data at all you reveal your bias - you have no idea how they are working for the overwhelming majority since most people do not post their problems to these forums (if anything, they call Apple support, if not just rebooting and hoping the problem goes away), and the surveys that DO exist reveal large failure rates. Discount them if you like, but you certainly can't make assumptions going the other way about lack of defects based on the number of forum posts or the absence of other information about it either.
You even go so far as to say "It is hard to make call on something like this without real data and evidence." but then do just that, assuming that "the vast majority" of machines are perfect, and going even further to utterly fabricate that "It is safe to say Apple has sold more than 1 million of these things." In all of its past fiscal year, Apple sold only 3.2 million desktops, rounding up, see their Annual 10-K filing. Odds they sold 1/3 of that amount of just the new iMac and in only two months? Not insignificant, but certainly far from a sure thing. Odds that you are fabricating data to support your preconceived notions? One hundred percent.
In short, a large number of people are reporting these problems, enough so that it is making the media repeatedly, the threads on the issue have hundreds of thousands of page views, and people are repeatedly getting second and third defective units. You've made your view that since it's Apple, the number of defects must be small clear. Some of us do not agree, and the little data that does exist seems to point toward an unusually widespread problem. We know you do not agree and think that Apple is incapable of producing defective machines on a material scale. Thanks for making sure the "Apple is my G-d" contingent is represented here.
I think it is also important to note that there are many issues that may go unnoticed by the average consumer, who simply doesn't pay as much attention to flaws that other users may.
I actually think thats the explanation for all the "perfect" iMac claims. I've searched all over for a perfect iMac and I don't believe they exist. They ALL have a yellow tinge of some sort (more apparent to those with better trained eyes), and I've never seen one without dead pixels in the iSight.
My Week 46 imac is fine
My Week 46 i7 imac is fine. Received it back in mid Nov. Works fine, no yellow, no flicker, no cracks, quite HD. Sorry to rub it in by I'm happy.
I don't need to rehash how the "surveys" or complaint posts don't really reflect true numbers of defects vs fine imacs.
So, in response to the original post I'd order one now as your chances of getting a dude are lower now than a few weeks ago.
My Week 46 i7 imac is fine. Received it back in mid Nov. Works fine, no yellow, no flicker, no cracks, quite HD. Sorry to rub it in by I'm happy.
I don't need to rehash how the "surveys" or complaint posts don't really reflect true numbers of defects vs fine imacs.
So, in response to the original post I'd order one now as your chances of getting a dude are lower now than a few weeks ago.
As the OP, Windows 7 is not going to be my main O/S - but it is something I would like to be able to BootCamp with (I guess you can't yet according to Apple but you can do Parallels with so I will give that a shot first).
And I completely agree with you on finding a similar PC and monitor with the resolution of the 27" iMac with at the same price. The ONLY reason I am actually looking hard at the iMac now is due to the price you pay for what you get - a core i7 machine with an insane monitor. I've priced out Dell, Gateway, iBuyPower, DIY kits, etc. I really don't see anything that compares to the iMac.
I am most concerned about the failure rate and really appreciate everyone's feedback. I would love to know what the total # of core i7 iMacs have been sold so we could extrapolate the true failure rate (a pipe dream I realize). I would bet that a very small percentage of people who have "perfect" iMacs are reading these forums and posting. We should have a thread dedicated to folks who have 1) A problem (seems like the yellow tinge is the only thing that is still a problem) 2) A new iMac with no issues and 3) If you have a problem and get an exchange does the new one have an issue. I know there is some work like this being done at Gizmodo which I am following closely as well.
I can guarantee you that if there were no issues I'd have bought my 27" iMac i7 a couple weeks ago....so if Apple is reading any of this, please make a public acknowledgment of the issue or stop selling iMacs until the issue is resolved.
LOL... You're even more skeptical than I am. My i7 had no dead pixels in the iSight camera, making it even more painful to return it, but it had both a significant yellow tinge on the bottom 1/3 of the screen (which the Apple Store folks claimed not to see even though it was obvious to every other person I asked), and also the flickering and apparently related artifacts issues.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a substantial number that didn't show this though - the thing is, the observed occurrences (including display items in multiple stores, many people getting replacement units with the same problems, etc.) seem to me to be enough to show that the problems are widespread. Some may quibble with the data, and some will argue that Apple does not make products with more than trivial defects no matter what is observed (including some with the yellow screen and/or dead pixels who still say their Macs are "perfect"!). Such is the nature of Apple and its cult, er, user community.
I just received my iMac 27" core i7 (week 52) machine on Tuesday. So far there are no signs of any issues what so ever. No flickering, no Yellow, hard drive is quiet. So if you want one go ahead and purchase.
eh?
Shipping company???? !
the yellow tinged displays are down to cheap LG panels, made down to a price and then poorly implemented. Same as the 24" ACD.
Apple will fix it? They won't even acknowledge it, probably for fear of the avalanche of customers both past and present who 'suddenly' notice it on their machines.
they cannot 'afford' to recall them especially this time of year. They do what any large corps would.....ignore it and hope the vocal minority dies out.
Mark Wilson is doing a fine job that this shouldn't happen.
The iMac's price is largely irrelevant. It is overkill for 99% of 'average consumers' and in this day and age of recession verges on fiscal irresponsibilty.
I am sat here on a dual core celeron, 2GB ram, Win 7. Built myself for around £240 all in. Runs handbrake quicker than my imac did (same film, same settings).
Costs 1/4 the price of the cheapest iMac. (display extra) and for nearly everyone I know personally and professionally, this machine is more than enough.
Think what you could do with an extra £700?
I'm happy you like macs, I consider myself (now) more responsible.
Just received my 27" i7 iMac w/8GB ram..
So far, no dead pixels, no yellow...except now that I'm looking for it, and the monitor is heavy in the blue, I'm sensing yellow artifacts that may be simply visual phenomenon. I'll let it run for a week or so and hit it with my light meter. It don't lie.
When you've got a big, football size field of uniform illumination, it's easy to see splotchiness when it doesn't exist. But this monitor is, at this point anyway, pretty good looking.
This machine was shipped out of China (the only place in the world that makes anything anymore) about the 23rd of Dec, after I ordered it on the 10th.
So far, no dead pixels, no yellow...except now that I'm looking for it, and the monitor is heavy in the blue, I'm sensing yellow artifacts that may be simply visual phenomenon. I'll let it run for a week or so and hit it with my light meter. It don't lie.
When you've got a big, football size field of uniform illumination, it's easy to see splotchiness when it doesn't exist. But this monitor is, at this point anyway, pretty good looking.
This machine was shipped out of China (the only place in the world that makes anything anymore) about the 23rd of Dec, after I ordered it on the 10th.
I think it's great that you've built a machine that matches your budget and lifestyle. But not everyone has the same taste or finances as you. Sure, a Chevy Cavalier will get you from Point A to Point B, but others may prefer a Lexus or BMW.
I also find it laughable that you tie buying an iMac with fiscal irresponsibility. All I can say is, speak for yourself and not others...
Bryan
I just received my iMac 27" core i7 (week 52) machine on Tuesday. So far there are no signs of any issues what so ever. No flickering, no Yellow, hard drive is quiet. So if you want one go ahead and purchase.
Just wait a week. I thought mine was the only perfect machine. Now I have a wandering yellow puddle and a bad flicker when the machine gets hot.
Reading these threads can be depressing, it's getting hard to distinguish FUD from actual problems.
That being said, my week 47 i7 works perfectly. As do those of 3 other people I know who bought i7's also.
Added to that, there are hundreds of Apple Stores filled with 100s of new iMacs that exhibit none of these problems.
It does seem like there is an effort underway to undermine public perception of these new machines.
That being said, my week 47 i7 works perfectly. As do those of 3 other people I know who bought i7's also.
Added to that, there are hundreds of Apple Stores filled with 100s of new iMacs that exhibit none of these problems.
It does seem like there is an effort underway to undermine public perception of these new machines.
I'm personally warning other consumers. I'm disappointed with my machine, and I just don't know whether I'm going to return it for a refund or not yet.
Its not a case of matching anything to anyone.
The vast majority of the world use their computers to email, blog, facebook etc. browse and maybe so home media stuff.
A $2k machine, whose only redeeming feature is that its pretty is MASSIVE overkill for nearly everybody.
In truth it isn't really that much just Apple's profit margin borders on the obscene.
If you don't like what I say then I suggest you shut your mouth and look at the world in which we all live.
Unfortunately the yellow tint issue is very widespread.
Those of you who think only 1% of computers are affected, a probability of 0.01.
If it takes a person 8 exchanges to get a good screen (as mentioned in the other thread), then the probability of getting 8 defects in a row is:
0.01^8 = 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 *0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01
= 0.0000000000000001
x 100% = 0.00000000000001%
Do you really believe that? that means this person is 1 out of 10,000,000,000,000?
Most people are give up after their 4th or 5th exchange.
It's pretty obvious that there's a high number of defective iMacs. Now whether or not you can live with a defective display is your decision. But it does not change how widespread this thing is.
Those of you who think only 1% of computers are affected, a probability of 0.01.
If it takes a person 8 exchanges to get a good screen (as mentioned in the other thread), then the probability of getting 8 defects in a row is:
0.01^8 = 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 *0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01
= 0.0000000000000001
x 100% = 0.00000000000001%
Do you really believe that? that means this person is 1 out of 10,000,000,000,000?
Most people are give up after their 4th or 5th exchange.
It's pretty obvious that there's a high number of defective iMacs. Now whether or not you can live with a defective display is your decision. But it does not change how widespread this thing is.
Making my first post to say that I will wait to buy my core i7 machine instead of taking the plunge. $2000+ is too much money to gamble with. If I spend that type of money, I want to know for sure what I am getting in return is worth my investment.
I agree. There is no perfect iMac. In the strictest sense, there never was. (Each picture element in a "perfect" panel would emit the correct hue, saturation, and value in all instances. I believe such panels are very expensive--or don't yet exist. Any LCD engineers out there care to chime in?)
I do believe that there are iMacs out there that are cosmetically and functionally acceptable. This appears to be what some people mean when they post that they have a "perfect iMac." It seems counterproductive to imply that these people are dishonest or unintelligent.
I think "acceptability" depends on each user's needs. None of the secretaries in the front office would notice a dead pixel or two, but a single dead pixel would drive me nuts. At the other end of the spectrum live the flaws that are unacceptable to all users. As examples, the "cracked glass problem" is a universally unacceptable cosmetic flaw in the same way that the "flickering" is a universally unacceptable functional flaw.
In between these extremes lurks the "yellow peril."
I don't see anything wrong with the concept of user-specific acceptability when discussing this issue. People have a wide range of color-matching needs. There is such a thing as a "eye training." There may even be some intra-species variability concerning color perception (below the level of diagnosable "color blindness").
For some people, an acceptable panel only has to look good to their untrained eye under plausible use case scenarios. For others, an acceptable panel must be completely free of artifact, to the point that all errors fly below the level of human detection. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. Needs differ, perception differs, and users differ.
Judging by published photos, postings, and personal experience, the severity of this problem varies between "difficult for an average human to detect" all the way to "difficult for an average human to ignore." Since Apple prominently advertises "excellent color consistency--even if you're viewing the display from the side," they need to address this objectionable tinge issue quickly, starting with those most affected. Every iMac owner deserves to experience the satisfaction of an acceptable display on their shiny new aluminum objet d'art.
If you can not make a €2000 machine perfect, well then you should not sell it or sell it at half the price.
I had 8 iSight pixels that were stuck and a rumbling hd that (in the end) made a noise that was really annoying. So I've send it back to Apple and asked them to refund my money.
Yes I shouldn't whine about their prices because it is up to the consument to decide whether he wants to spend so much money on it. But to be honest, if a €400 less costing machine that has the SAME specs can be perfect well then the iMacs should be too.
What will I do? I am going to wait for 2-3 months and sit things out. If Apple fixed these problems or it is obvious that they at least are reduced I will do another effort, if the machine ain't perfect I will send it back straight away and ask me my money back once more.
And what annoys me most is that (and I can understand reading the comment of some people "a whole community will look for bugs and it will ruin mac") Apple ever gave any official news about the problems in the iMac 27". Let's be honest, the numbers don't lie do they? Check out that squeaked website, they don't.
I do have the feeling that this new iMac made many people swing from other companies to Apple but I also feel that this is stabbing them in the back a bit.
The thing is people who have bought/owned 'Windows' computers might have had some hardware problems, but they aren't used to many. And for some very strange reason the iMac community is always willing to shut their eye every now and then when their machine sets a flicker or when one part of the screen because yellow. A computer is something that I would never fall in love with, it has to do it's job in the way that I expect it to do so, no way I will ever shut my eyes for what problem so ever. It's sad for Apple because in some way I do feel that the succes of the iMac might become one of the biggest problems they'll have to solve until now. It is ALL over the internet, facebook, forums .. I even hear people talking about it on the streets, this is a problem that you have to ADMIT. Being stubborn and not informing the community in the right way is not how things should be done.
To the treadstarter, I would wait.
I had 8 iSight pixels that were stuck and a rumbling hd that (in the end) made a noise that was really annoying. So I've send it back to Apple and asked them to refund my money.
Yes I shouldn't whine about their prices because it is up to the consument to decide whether he wants to spend so much money on it. But to be honest, if a €400 less costing machine that has the SAME specs can be perfect well then the iMacs should be too.
What will I do? I am going to wait for 2-3 months and sit things out. If Apple fixed these problems or it is obvious that they at least are reduced I will do another effort, if the machine ain't perfect I will send it back straight away and ask me my money back once more.
And what annoys me most is that (and I can understand reading the comment of some people "a whole community will look for bugs and it will ruin mac") Apple ever gave any official news about the problems in the iMac 27". Let's be honest, the numbers don't lie do they? Check out that squeaked website, they don't.
I do have the feeling that this new iMac made many people swing from other companies to Apple but I also feel that this is stabbing them in the back a bit.
The thing is people who have bought/owned 'Windows' computers might have had some hardware problems, but they aren't used to many. And for some very strange reason the iMac community is always willing to shut their eye every now and then when their machine sets a flicker or when one part of the screen because yellow. A computer is something that I would never fall in love with, it has to do it's job in the way that I expect it to do so, no way I will ever shut my eyes for what problem so ever. It's sad for Apple because in some way I do feel that the succes of the iMac might become one of the biggest problems they'll have to solve until now. It is ALL over the internet, facebook, forums .. I even hear people talking about it on the streets, this is a problem that you have to ADMIT. Being stubborn and not informing the community in the right way is not how things should be done.
To the treadstarter, I would wait.