Is the Apple TV dead ????

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Been thinking about trying Firetv but with every bluray coming with a UV code I have built up a library. Can I access my library like with Vudu or? with fire tv or would I still need a Roku or Chromecast or Nvidia shield?

I've never used Ultraviolet (way too many controls that keep you from playing movies you paid for that they can take away at a moment's notice as consumer's have ZERO RIGHTS under the DMCA). From what I read, Flixster removed all support for UV titles in 2016 and gave FireTV users the middle finger when they did it (they only played in SD anyway from what I read). I've read some say they side-loaded Vudu and it worked as long as another app to give you mouse control was loaded. Sounds clunky, but it might be the only solution. It's why I've normally avoided iTunes titles as well (there are programs that can get rid of the encryption, but that might not be legal in your country). BDs are easy to rip/encode via Handbrake or other programs, but ripping them may not be legal either in your country either. It's why we need consumer-based laws rather than corporate-based laws. Steve Jobs saw that encryption was limiting legitimate music sales for everyone and encouraging piracy (oddly pirated versions never seem to have encryption of any kind) and SOMEHOW he was able to convince the music industry it would be better to ditch encryption than to keep it since it stops NO ONE except law-abiding citizens in the long run. This is why you can play your digital music collection on almost any device now.

Steve was never able to convince them the same thing about movies. I think it was because most CDs never had any encryption on them to begin with so it was always easy to just buy a CD and rip it yourself legally (fair use). Corporations are using encryption like a sword against other companies even (they want to lock you into their system) and this just infuriates the consumer who is basically told to go buy the movie AGAIN AND AGAIN. IMO, this just encourages encryption breaking and/or piracy to fed up consumers. I'm sure Apple would have loved for me to be only able to use an AppleTV forever. But what if Apple stops supporting AppleTV or the company dies some time in the future? Too bad? Yeah, buy it again. No thanks. I've purchased Star Wars at least three times already. Funny how my "license" to watch it only applies to whatever disc/tape/whatever it's on and not in general.... Thank the laws again! You not only don't own the copy of the movie you bought, but your license doesn't allow you backups or updates if the format dies or isn't supported. Some companies even came up with self-destructing discs (for rentals?) ANYTHING to make you keep paying over and over for the same thing.

Companies must really HATE libraries.... (where you can borrow a movie to watch you might not be able to even afford). I'm surprised they haven't made laws to get rid of libraries already, really.

 

[tanfan]

I've never used Ultraviolet (way too many controls that keep you from playing movies you paid for that they can take away at a moment's notice as consumer's have ZERO RIGHTS under the DMCA). From what I read, Flixster removed all support for UV titles in 2016 and gave FireTV users the middle finger when they did it (they only played in SD anyway from what I read). I've read some say they side-loaded Vudu and it worked as long as another app to give you mouse control was loaded. Sounds clunky, but it might be the only solution. It's why I've normally avoided iTunes titles as well (there are programs that can get rid of the encryption, but that might not be legal in your country). BDs are easy to rip/encode via Handbrake or other programs, but ripping them may not be legal either in your country either. It's why we need consumer-based laws rather than corporate-based laws. Steve Jobs saw that encryption was limiting legitimate music sales for everyone and encouraging piracy (oddly pirated versions never seem to have encryption of any kind) and SOMEHOW he was able to convince the music industry it would be better to ditch encryption than to keep it since it stops NO ONE except law-abiding citizens in the long run. This is why you can play your digital music collection on almost any device now.

Steve was never able to convince them the same thing about movies. I think it was because most CDs never had any encryption on them to begin with so it was always easy to just buy a CD and rip it yourself legally (fair use). Corporations are using encryption like a sword against other companies even (they want to lock you into their system) and this just infuriates the consumer who is basically told to go buy the movie AGAIN AND AGAIN. IMO, this just encourages encryption breaking and/or piracy to fed up consumers. I'm sure Apple would have loved for me to be only able to use an AppleTV forever. But what if Apple stops supporting AppleTV or the company dies some time in the future? Too bad? Yeah, buy it again. No thanks. I've purchased Star Wars at least three times already. Funny how my "license" to watch it only applies to whatever disc/tape/whatever it's on and not in general.... Thank the laws again! You not only don't own the copy of the movie you bought, but your license doesn't allow you backups or updates if the format dies or isn't supported. Some companies even came up with self-destructing discs (for rentals?) ANYTHING to make you keep paying over and over for the same thing.

Companies must really HATE libraries.... (where you can borrow a movie to watch you might not be able to even afford). I'm surprised they haven't made laws to get rid of libraries already, really.

Wow, ok then, you don't like Ultraviolet lol. I love Ultraviolet (1400+), it works great imo, and I get everything in HDX or UHD thru Vudu, I just didn't know if the Firetv had Vudu or not, doesn't sound like it.

 

[Brenster]

First let me say that we are currently a 100% Apple house - iPhones, iPads, MacBook and several generations of Apple TV. We live in the UK. We have cut the cord with Sky !!

We use a number of streaming sources for our TV - Netflix, Amazon Prime and all the UK Catch Up Channels. Live TV comes from satellite as the terrestrial TV where we live is rather weak and satellite seems to be of better quality (higher bit rate ?).

So where does this leave the Apple TV ?? BBC iPlayer and Netflix - But where are all the other Apps ??

Almost any Samsung or LG smart TV Has support for the main Apps - even our Samsung DVD Player has better support than the Apple TV.

If Apple doesn't get off its backside and start to get some serious App support from the main media sources it is being quickly overtaken by almost every supplier of smart TV's.

Comments please before we dump the Apple TV in favour of a better supported platform.

UK here as well. We use Apple TV for iTunes content & rentals, Netflix, YouTube and NowTV. However our 2nd gen FireTV gets WAY more use with Amazon Video Prime & Netflix content, Amazon Video rentals together with iPlayer, ITV Hub and All4.

Most of the films we've bought digitally have been on iTunes as iTunes Extras does a great job of replicating the disc menu & extras experience. However a Fire tablet purchase last Black Friday together with a Kids Fire Tablet for our son has use using the Amazon eco-system more and more, over and above my Paperwhite and my serious Audible habit. I'm debating whether to try the Amazon Video versions of Doctor Strange and Rogue One over the next couple of months. Whilst I'd rather not lose the iTunes Extras experience, compatibility with our 'good enough' Fire tablets, my son's Kids Fire tablet and the Fire TB box is extremely tempting.

Before Christmas Currys and Argos both had cardboard stands full of Fire TV and Fire TV Sticks, all of which were sold out before Christmas, like on the back of The Grand Tour. Between the Grand Tour focused advertising and the word of mouth on Fire TV/FTV Stick, it seems like Amazon is comfortably winning the streaming box war here in the UK.

Apple TV *seriously* needs to gain app/service parity with Amazon Fire TV as the only current advantage of Apple TV over the Fire TV is native YouTube and NowTV support - and both of those can be had with the £15 NowTV box in any supermarket.

 

[bushellj]

Wow, ok then, you don't like Ultraviolet lol. I love Ultraviolet (1400+), it works great imo, and I get everything in HDX or UHD thru Vudu, I just didn't know if the Firetv had Vudu or not, doesn't sound like it.

Really getting off the main theme here for this thread !!

There are two points I originally raised in this thread and neither are being addressed by Apple's product roadmap or the support they are lacking from the primary media providers.

The first point - specifically in the U.K. - is that the Apple TV4 has little more support from third party media providers than the day it was launched. Only Netflix, Now TV and BBC iPlayer have ported their Apps to the ATV4. None of the other TV Channels in the U.K. have ported their Catch Up services to the ATV4 which makes it all but useless as a TV Platform in the U.K.

Second, Apple are proactively destroying the EcoSystem that a lot of us customers bought into. They are moving rapidly toward just becoming an expensive smartphone company and dropping support for the other elements of the infrastructure. There seems to be little understanding that it is the total EcoSystem that is the Apple value and parts of this infrastructure might be less profitable than others. A good example is the Apple Airport family which appears to be discontinued as the team has been dissolved !!!!

Having now purchased an Amazon Fire TV box it has been quite an eye opener as to how far the competition has not only caught up but to be frank, has overtaken the ATV4 in its user interface and the overwhelming support from the Media Providers. We haven't turned on the ATV4 since it arrived !!!

Apple needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" - No multi billion new offices are going to replace the innovation that Apple require to get back on track and to re-establish the Eco System that we all bought into. They also need to start winning back the support of the third parties that provide the media and this needs to be proactive, not just sitting on their arses hoping that the media providers will port because Apple are so wonderful as they have clearly lost this position in the market !!!
[doublepost=1487624086][/doublepost]

UK here as well. We use Apple TV for iTunes content & rentals, Netflix, YouTube and NowTV. However our 2nd gen FireTV gets WAY more use with Amazon Video Prime & Netflix content, Amazon Video rentals together with iPlayer, ITV Hub and All4.

Most of the films we've bought digitally have been on iTunes as iTunes Extras does a great job of replicating the disc menu & extras experience. However a Fire tablet purchase last Black Friday together with a Kids Fire Tablet for our son has use using the Amazon eco-system more and more, over and above my Paperwhite and my serious Audible habit. I'm debating whether to try the Amazon Video versions of Doctor Strange and Rogue One over the next couple of months. Whilst I'd rather not lose the iTunes Extras experience, compatibility with our 'good enough' Fire tablets, my son's Kids Fire tablet and the Fire TB box is extremely tempting.

Before Christmas Currys and Argos both had cardboard stands full of Fire TV and Fire TV Sticks, all of which were sold out before Christmas, like on the back of The Grand Tour. Between the Grand Tour focused advertising and the word of mouth on Fire TV/FTV Stick, it seems like Amazon is comfortably winning the streaming box war here in the UK.

Apple TV *seriously* needs to gain app/service parity with Amazon Fire TV as the only current advantage of Apple TV over the Fire TV is native YouTube and NowTV support - and both of those can be had with the £15 NowTV box in any supermarket.

Precisely the point I have been trying to highlight !! Amazon are totally killing the ATV4 in the U.K. !!!

 

[d21mike]

Really getting off the main theme here for this thread !!

There are two points I originally raised in this thread and neither are being addressed by Apple's product roadmap or the support they are lacking from the primary media providers.

The first point - specifically in the U.K. - is that the Apple TV4 has little more support from third party media providers than the day it was launched. Only Netflix, Now TV and BBC iPlayer have ported their Apps to the ATV4. None of the other TV Channels in the U.K. have ported their Catch Up services to the ATV4 which makes it all but useless as a TV Platform in the U.K.

Second, Apple are proactively destroying the EcoSystem that a lot of us customers bought into. They are moving rapidly toward just becoming an expensive smartphone company and dropping support for the other elements of the infrastructure. There seems to be little understanding that it is the total EcoSystem that is the Apple value and parts of this infrastructure might be less profitable than others. A good example is the Apple Airport family which appears to be discontinued as the team has been dissolved !!!!

Having now purchased an Amazon Fire TV box it has been quite an eye opener as to how far the competition has not only caught up but to be frank, has overtaken the ATV4 in its user interface and the overwhelming support from the Media Providers. We haven't turned on the ATV4 since it arrived !!!

Apple needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" - No multi billion new offices are going to replace the innovation that Apple require to get back on track and to re-establish the Eco System that we all bought into. They also need to start winning back the support of the third parties that provide the media and this needs to be proactive, not just sitting on their arses hoping that the media providers will port because Apple are so wonderful as they have clearly lost this position in the market !!!
[doublepost=1487624086][/doublepost]


Precisely the point I have been trying to highlight !! Amazon are totally killing the ATV4 in the U.K. !!!

Sounds like you are mainly talking about the Apple TV 4 in the U.K. and not everywhere. In the US, other then Amazon Video it seems to have a lot of content. Multiple times you mention the U.K. Maybe you should add U.K. to this:
Is the Apple TV dead ????

 

[tanfan]

Really getting off the main theme here for this thread !!

There are two points I originally raised in this thread and neither are being addressed by Apple's product roadmap or the support they are lacking from the primary media providers.

The first point - specifically in the U.K. - is that the Apple TV4 has little more support from third party media providers than the day it was launched. Only Netflix, Now TV and BBC iPlayer have ported their Apps to the ATV4. None of the other TV Channels in the U.K. have ported their Catch Up services to the ATV4 which makes it all but useless as a TV Platform in the U.K.

Second, Apple are proactively destroying the EcoSystem that a lot of us customers bought into. They are moving rapidly toward just becoming an expensive smartphone company and dropping support for the other elements of the infrastructure. There seems to be little understanding that it is the total EcoSystem that is the Apple value and parts of this infrastructure might be less profitable than others. A good example is the Apple Airport family which appears to be discontinued as the team has been dissolved !!!!

Having now purchased an Amazon Fire TV box it has been quite an eye opener as to how far the competition has not only caught up but to be frank, has overtaken the ATV4 in its user interface and the overwhelming support from the Media Providers. We haven't turned on the ATV4 since it arrived !!!

Apple needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" - No multi billion new offices are going to replace the innovation that Apple require to get back on track and to re-establish the Eco System that we all bought into. They also need to start winning back the support of the third parties that provide the media and this needs to be proactive, not just sitting on their arses hoping that the media providers will port because Apple are so wonderful as they have clearly lost this position in the market !!!
[doublepost=1487624086][/doublepost]


Precisely the point I have been trying to highlight !! Amazon are totally killing the ATV4 in the U.K. !!!

Really getting off the main theme here for this thread !!

There are two points I originally raised in this thread and neither are being addressed by Apple's product roadmap or the support they are lacking from the primary media providers.

The first point - specifically in the U.K. - is that the Apple TV4 has little more support from third party media providers than the day it was launched. Only Netflix, Now TV and BBC iPlayer have ported their Apps to the ATV4. None of the other TV Channels in the U.K. have ported their Catch Up services to the ATV4 which makes it all but useless as a TV Platform in the U.K.

Second, Apple are proactively destroying the EcoSystem that a lot of us customers bought into. They are moving rapidly toward just becoming an expensive smartphone company and dropping support for the other elements of the infrastructure. There seems to be little understanding that it is the total EcoSystem that is the Apple value and parts of this infrastructure might be less profitable than others. A good example is the Apple Airport family which appears to be discontinued as the team has been dissolved !!!!

Having now purchased an Amazon Fire TV box it has been quite an eye opener as to how far the competition has not only caught up but to be frank, has overtaken the ATV4 in its user interface and the overwhelming support from the Media Providers. We haven't turned on the ATV4 since it arrived !!!

Apple needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" - No multi billion new offices are going to replace the innovation that Apple require to get back on track and to re-establish the Eco System that we all bought into. They also need to start winning back the support of the third parties that provide the media and this needs to be proactive, not just sitting on their arses hoping that the media providers will port because Apple are so wonderful as they have clearly lost this position in the market !!!
[doublepost=1487624086][/doublepost]


Precisely the point I have been trying to highlight !! Amazon are totally killing the ATV4 in the U.K. !!!

I think Apple has lost ground or been passed with many products the last few years so I agree. The Fire tv is popular (don't know anything about the UK though) but in the U.S Roku is the box with the most relevant apps, and the most popular.

 

[rembert]

[...] Steve may have been good at guessing what people want, but not Tim Cook. [...]

Exactly my thought.

BTW. I'm in NL and use an old ATV-3, just for NetFlix. Broadcasting app for just the public channels is only available as beta side-loading app for the ATV-4. The Belgian VRT do appear to have one.

The Dutch initiative Knippr has launched an ATV-4 app with all standard Dutch channels available as well as many other popular channels, like Discovery, EuroSport 1 & 2 and much more. But no VRT and no BBC yet.
https://www.knippr.nl/ (sorry, it's in Dutch)

This Knippr initiative seems nice but I don't want to have those standard channels. I'd only use it for the special channels, like Eurosport 2 as I already have a sufficient base TV package included with my Internet package - a packaga lacking those special channels. Unfortunately Dutch law requires Knippr to include those standard Dutch channels. Knippr invites me to get rid of that base TV package coming with my Internet connection but that would mean I'll loose some of my other favourite channels. Well... guess things will change in the future.

 

[Hermes Monster]

[doublepost=1487140248][/doublepost]I could not agree more just bought a new LG smart TV and have not even bothered plugging my Apple TV back in. Where are the UK apps? ITV hub, All4 etc etc. The only thing I have used it for was to stream the live Apple event. As far as movies go Wakie or how ever you spell it, are always emailing free or half price vouchers. You never get movie offers with Apple.

You should download the CheapCharts app - there's price reductions daily on iTunes movies

 

[chiefdave]

The first point - specifically in the U.K. - is that the Apple TV4 has little more support from third party media providers than the day it was launched. Only Netflix, Now TV and BBC iPlayer have ported their Apps to the ATV4. None of the other TV Channels in the U.K. have ported their Catch Up services to the ATV4 which makes it all but useless as a TV Platform in the U.K.

And the NowTV app is terrible compared to other platforms. Its not been updated since release (they haven't even bothered to update to the new colour scheme for their logo) and that was just a port of the ATV3 app. Its not lack of demand. There's a huge number of posts on their forums asking for updates.

The lack of ITV, 4OD and C5 is just strange. They all have iOS apps, how hard can it be to port something over? Apple need to get proactive here and if the major content providers aren't creating apps find out why and offer to help.

A decent now TV app and the addition of ITV, 4OD and C5 would be a major boost.

Add Amazon Prime and it would be the perfect platform.

 

[Zandery]

The ATV is useless garbage in the UK, the lack of apps and support is unreal. I don't use mine, hell I don't even use iTunes for my digital media anymore as most films come with UV copies rather than iTunes copies and I prefer to buy the Blu-ray/DVD as at least I own them.

If I ever consider HomeKit to be worth it, I may use it again but until then, no thank you Apple. They really dropped the ball on what could've been a great product.

 

[tibas92013]

Happy with AppleTV here in the US. The Youtube, Netflix, Tablo and DirecTV apps are my main go to's that complete me.

I mainly use my two(2) ATV's(3rd Gen.) to watch all the great stuff on YouTube, Podcasts and Internet Radio which satisfies all my ATV needs.

 

[cynics]

The ATV is useless garbage in the UK, the lack of apps and support is unreal. I don't use mine, hell I don't even use iTunes for my digital media anymore as most films come with UV copies rather than iTunes copies and I prefer to buy the Blu-ray/DVD as at least I own them.

If I ever consider HomeKit to be worth it, I may use it again but until then, no thank you Apple. They really dropped the ball on what could've been a great product.

When you find a app missing message the developer (twitter is a good way because others will see it and fuel the fire).

A 3rd party dev deciding not to build an app isn't Apple dropping the ball btw. Anyone remember the first Roku lol?

 

[BMox81]

I'm from the UK and if it wasn't for the movie collection I've amassed on my US iTunes account, I'd probably wouldn't use it.

But it serves a purpose in that regards so to answer the OP's question, no the Apple TV isn't dead.

In regards to the UK app side of things however - I'd say it is.

The price also killed it - why buy a ATV for over £100 when you can get a Fire Stick/TV that does more for less?

 

[playtech1]

For UK users ATV just doesn't have the streaming services it needs to be successful. I have one for Airplay and iTunes content, but it's easily beaten by built-in Smart TV apps and cheap Amazon sticks when it comes to streaming content.

I'm not sure there's really a need for Apple TV at all - iTunes content could be done via an app and Airplay from an App or a cheap Chromecast equivalent.

Set-top boxes / streamers / etc. are a product where beyond a certain (and fairly low) hardware and interface quality threshold it really is all about the content and in the UK (and I suspect generally outside the US) Apple has not sorted this out.

 

[Jaunty]

For UK users ATV just doesn't have the streaming services it needs to be successful. I have one for Airplay and iTunes content, but it's easily beaten by built-in Smart TV apps and cheap Amazon sticks when it comes to streaming content.

I'm not sure there's really a need for Apple TV at all - iTunes content could be done via an app and Airplay from an App or a cheap Chromecast equivalent.

Set-top boxes / streamers / etc. are a product where beyond a certain (and fairly low) hardware and interface quality threshold it really is all about the content and in the UK (and I suspect generally outside the US) Apple has not sorted this out.

I am in UK and agree Apple TV4 here is over priced and under supported. I only have 1 but keep 3 ATv 3 and an AEX going. Amazon Stick is quarter of the price and offers way more other than Apple Music.

 

[Coffee50]

I'm from the UK and if it wasn't for the movie collection I've amassed on my US iTunes account, I'd probably wouldn't use it.

But it serves a purpose in that regards so to answer the OP's question, no the Apple TV isn't dead.

In regards to the UK app side of things however - I'd say it is.

The price also killed it - why buy a ATV for over £100 when you can get a Fire Stick/TV that does more for less?

I've always been curious about this. Can you transfer purchases to a new iTunes account? (or do you really have set up a different international account?)

 

[Seoras]

This isn't Apple's issue it's one of power and control of the market.

If Amazon et al were to join BBC & Netflix in doing a streaming app for the Apple TV it would, in their eyes, only server to strengthen Apples position and the dominance of the Apple TV in the market place.

Apple's done it before (Music industry and iPod/iTunes) no one wants to "lose" again.

It's the same with Apple Pay. Fantastic concept and works incredibly well. I love it.
Yet there's retailers and banks who still refuse to get onboard (looking at you Australia) because they don't want to empower Apple in fear of disempowering themselves.

You, the consumer, just don't figure in their thinking....

We use a number of streaming sources for our TV - Netflix, Amazon Prime and all the UK Catch Up Channels. Live TV comes from satellite as the terrestrial TV where we live is rather weak and satellite seems to be of better quality (higher bit rate ?).

So where does this leave the Apple TV ?? BBC iPlayer and Netflix - But where are all the other Apps ??

Almost any Samsung or LG smart TV Has support for the main Apps - even our Samsung DVD Player has better support than the Apple TV.

If Apple doesn't get off its backside and start to get some serious App support from the main media sources it is being quickly overtaken by almost every supplier of smart TV's.

Comments please before we dump the Apple TV in favour of a better supported platform.

 

[Shanghaichica]

The Apple TV works for me because I have an extensive film and TV library purchased from iTunes.

I use Netflix and YouTube, play games, view my photos, listen to podcasts.

I occasionally watch something on amazon or itv/4oD/ BBC iPlayer so airplay is ok.

I have only Apple devices (iPhone, iPad, mac, Apple Watch) so it works well for me.

 

[Brian Y]

I have to say, I've always had Apple TVs, and we even got a 4th gen for the living room, but we're slowly migrating over to Fire TV boxes instead.

They're much more versatile, and also I don't need to run a Windows VM to have iTunes running as a server, it's perfectly happy (with SPMC) streaming from my bog standard DLNA server.

Plus, let's not forget the massive lack of 4K support - which is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I have to say, I've always had Apple TVs, and we even got a 4th gen for the living room, but we're slowly migrating over to Fire TV boxes instead.

They're much more versatile, and also I don't need to run a Windows VM to have iTunes running as a server, it's perfectly happy (with SPMC) streaming from my bog standard DLNA server.

Plus, let's not forget the massive lack of 4K support - which is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

Yes, it's hard to believe ten years later that AppleTV still requires iTunes to be running in order to play anything from your own library (without running 3rd party software). I remember some interview with an Apple software engineer saying they'd like to support something like NAS at some point, but not yet. Not 10 years later either. The focus on iTunes (and thus SELLING CRAP as opposed to letting you play your own media/library) continues. I don't much suppose they like you encoding your own Blu-rays (Steve never wanted any kind of Blu-Ray support for the Mac; 3rd parties finally got it working) and without removing DRM, you're locked into just one media player (unacceptable, IMO) and thus Blu-Ray (including UHD) and/or 4K streaming services ultimately appear more attractive.

 

[BlandUsername]

I have to say, I've always had Apple TVs, and we even got a 4th gen for the living room, but we're slowly migrating over to Fire TV boxes instead.

They're much more versatile, and also I don't need to run a Windows VM to have iTunes running as a server, it's perfectly happy (with SPMC) streaming from my bog standard DLNA server.

Plus, let's not forget the massive lack of 4K support - which is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

I own 3 TV's all under 3 years old, None have 4k. Why? Price, absolutely no desire to triple (old days) to Double (these days) the price I paid. So the lack of 4K in the appleTV has zero bearing on its usefulness, it's an equation of the mix of hardware and material you are watching.

 

[vipergts2207]

I own 3 TV's all under 3 years old, None have 4k. Why? Price, absolutely no desire to triple (old days) to Double (these days) the price I paid. So the lack of 4K in the appleTV has zero bearing on its usefulness, it's an equation of the mix of hardware and material you are watching.

Problem is that all but the cheapest TV's on the market today are 4K. You can easily get one for under $400. Even for someone doesn't have a 4K TV today, if they buy an ATV4 it won't support one of the primary features of their new TV when they do get one. 4K TV's are no longer an expensive, niche product and even though the majority of consumers do not yet own one, it's pretty much a guarantee that anyone purchasing a TV from here on out will be buying a 4K TV unless they're looking for bottom of the barrel pricing with the associated product quality. In not having 4K support Apple is only ensuring that people who buy an Apple TV today will have an outdated product when they get a new TV. I'm still using an ATV3 and won't upgrade until Apple launches one that supports 4K and preferably HDR.

 

[jbachandouris]

Yes, it's hard to believe ten years later that AppleTV still requires iTunes to be running in order to play anything from your own library (without running 3rd party software). I remember some interview with an Apple software engineer saying they'd like to support something like NAS at some point, but not yet. Not 10 years later either. The focus on iTunes (and thus SELLING CRAP as opposed to letting you play your own media/library) continues. I don't much suppose they like you encoding your own Blu-rays (Steve never wanted any kind of Blu-Ray support for the Mac; 3rd parties finally got it working) and without removing DRM, you're locked into just one media player (unacceptable, IMO) and thus Blu-Ray (including UHD) and/or 4K streaming services ultimately appear more attractive.

iTunes needs to be running? That's news to me. I use it in the US and as long as I have purchased it, I can stream it on my TV without any PC or Mac being on.

 

[BlandUsername]

iTunes needs to be running? That's news to me. I use it in the US and as long as I have purchased it, I can stream it on my TV without any PC or Mac being on.

Define stream, yes you can pull direct from itunes, Better have a big pipe. The way most of have to do it is DL the file to a PC or MAC, turn on home sharing and watch that was as streaming is almost unbearable.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

iTunes needs to be running? That's news to me. I use it in the US and as long as I have purchased it, I can stream it on my TV without any PC or Mac being on.

The vast majority of my movies (over 600) are from Blu-Rays and/or DVDs and even VHS and Laserdiscs I've encoded/transferred. Those won't stream from iTunes no matter how much you wish it (but as long as you encode M4V, they will add to iTunes locally with no issues) nor will my CD collection I've transferred (the bulk of my 8000+ songs are from LOSSLESS CDs, not lossy AAC iTunes files). Plus believe it or not, some of us have data caps (mine is about 500GB per month, which goes faster than you'd think if you watch a lot of Amazon Prime since they are much higher streaming rates than say Netflix). Besides, what guarantee is there that Apple will stay in the media business forever or won't go bankrupt in another decade or two? It's better to not be eco-system dependent, IMO if you can or you might end up having to buy those movies all over again some day.

More recently I've pretty much moved to FireTV 4K units and use Kodi to watch my movies, etc. (it will even play 3D movie encodes). Even iTunes movie purchases can be made to work on other media players by certain programs out there. I keep iTunes around mostly to play music around the house mainly (even Kodi boxes will sync music to iTunes with Airplay enabled) and I keep my M4V files in the iTunes database in case I ever buy a newer AppleTV or if the Internet goes down (i.e. FireTV has a fit if it goes down for some reason and I typically can't get to Kodi whereas AppleTVs will still play local files). My Mac Mini is my file server so it doesn't really matter if it's streaming via SMB, NFS or iTunes (although NFS connections won't prevent sleep and Apple won't fix the issue so I have largely stopped using it and stick with SMB).