Is the Magic of Apple Fading or Are We Just Chasing Nostalgia?

[Lounge vibes 05]

No, this is still the case , in fact Apple was never more expensive than it is today.

This is just provably false.
Apple has never had more affordable products. And no, I am not joking.
In 2004, the top of the line iPod was a 60GB iPod Photo, for $599.
In today’s money, that’s over $1000.

In 2008, a MacBook Air with a 64 GB SSD was $3100.. $4237 in todays money.
Today you can get a MacBook brand new easily for under $1000.
The only products to have seen major price increases over the years were… MacPros.
Outside of that, iPhones, iPads, AirPods, Apple watches, MacBooks, and even their desktops have all relatively gone down in price to what they were 10-20 years ago.
Even the original iPhone, with the exclusive extra payments from AT&T included, and adjusted for inflation, would be around $1100 in todays money.

And all of this ignores the fact that almost every line of apple’s products has diversified over the years to include more budget conscious models, like the iPhone SE and the iPad and the Watch SE.

You can easily put together an iPhone, Watch, iPad and Mac ecosystem for $1500-2000, you couldn’t even do that 10 years ago.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Tandem OLED on this year's iPad Pro shows that Apple is not dragging their feet when it comes to introducing OLED screens on larger devices that are intended to be left on for extended periods of time. They could slap a standard OLED display on a MBP and call it a day, and maybe Apple knows something we don't (that maybe they won't stand the test of time, especially on a laptop that will be used for 8-10 hours a day, 6-7 years on average).

Singapore consumer watchdog sees doubling of complaints about lines on phone screens

Almost all reports to the Consumer Association of Singapore were to do with Samsung phones.

www.channelnewsasia.com

I also suspect that part of the issue is that Apple as a company has a reputation to upkeep, which means that they typically won't be the first to adopt some shiny new tech on the market, for fear that it may have some downside that isn't readily apparent. They also need years to work out their supply chain, in part due to the vast volumes of product that they ship, and sometimes, the simple reason why iPhones only got OLED screens in 2020 is because that was the earliest that Samsung could supply that many displays, in the quality that Apple wanted, and that's not factoring in the years of negotiation both parties likely had behind the scenes. And I say this as someone who is seeing a lot of Samsung phones with green lines on the display, a well-known defect that said company is apparently refusing to take responsibility for.

I don’t think the supply chain is taken into account by most people, when it really should be.
When Apple released the first OLED iPad Pro earlier this year, what did it sell something like 8 to 10,000,000 units in the first quarter? That’s eight million extremely high resolution OLEDs that need to pop into existence within a couple of months.
Samsung on the other hand releases so many products per year that when they drop a new OLED tablet it’s dropped into a massive sea of Android tablets a lot of which are also from Samsung and might sell what, a couple hundred thousand units maybe 1 million over its lifetime? That’s a way different situation than 10,000,000 in a quarter.

 

[acrakes]

It's not the minivan of tech. It's the former sports car that became the crossover SUV/SUV everyone drives instead of a minivan. Big, reliable, less flashy, still "cool."

 

[acrakes]

Is there an opportunity for hardware innovation into a new device or new sector that everyone's missing, that Steve Jobs would have seen?

Apple is at least trying. A car is exceptionally difficult, even a TV is hard. Apple design is still the best in most cases.

I do think Steve could have found some sort of "Homepod" smart device with charm and function. Like, an 8-10 inch tall desktop robot that sits on your desk or counter as a smart speaker, camera, maybe a screen on its torso, that sits on a round wireless charging base.. A "smart home hub" and "digital assistant".

Would Jobs have been ahead of the curve on LLMs? Maybe. But he could be so idiosyncratic, he might've hated them at first like he did the idea of a tablet..

 

[acrakes]

Tesla is making iRobot a reality, SpaceX put internet in the farthest corners of earth, Anthropic and others are changing the way every knowledge worker does their job, meanwhile bean counters at Apple are like, yeah, one more 48mp camera should be enough, and nah, what's wrong with our RAM or SSD pricing?

Its completely arrogant, complacent, and out of touch. They are due for massive disruption, and the AI companies are gonna give it to them. Apple Silicon is the only seriously impressive thing Apple has done this decade, otherwise it's pretty lackluster, while continuing with hostile pricing and App Store policies so tone deaf the EU had to tear it from their fingers one at a time.

My prediction: with the disappointment of Vision Pro and Apple Intelligence, Apple is due for a rude wake up call similar to what Microsoft experienced under the end of Balmer's reign.

Would Steve have kept sinking money into the Apple car? Would he have worked with Rivian?

I think the Vision Pro was a statement product, not a disappointment. It's not ready for prime time, but it will likely get there, along with the rest of the market. They've made a claim for the high end, and a statement about their capacity for innovative UI. Meta's headsets are a promising gimmick or toy.

Apple Intelligence will likely close a good portion of the distance with OpenAI, Google and Claude. They have too many resources not to. If not.. they've never had a search engine and that worked out fine. The major players will want to be on their devices.

We all have 'wish lists' for what Apple would change, but "bean counting" does matter because it gives you flexibility for major R&D.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It never was. Computers and phones are not cool.

It's happened

The iPod era had a ton of "cool" devices with cultural cache, especially the iPod Mini era

Apple aren't really even a company "trying" in the new mainstream hit product space.

The AVP is the closest thing and that, even if somehow becomes more successful at some point, is serious dorky territory.

The Watch could have potential, but they are doing like "nothing" with that. I mean how many times can we shove out the same barely changed rectangle? It's mind blowing to me that they haven't carved that market up into a ton of different form factors and styles -- watches are straight up fashion items with TONS of potential, and they have just defaulted to a nerdy computer rectangle and "watch bands"

It's just so conservative and low effort

You hit no home runs when barely swinging the bat

It's almost like Tim is too worried to rock the whole boat and really take risk.

I really don't get it -- he's personally fabulously wealthy ... his current legacy is "boring bean counter OPs guy" ... hardly to be remembered as anything other than a captain holding the wheel going straight through calm waters.

Take chances .. go for it!
We live once ... if there are big failures, so be it -- live a little Tim

Nobody cares how much money you made when you're dead

 

[MacGreenPath]

I'd like to share a different perspective. I grew up with the Commodore 64 and have used every Windows OS since Windows 3.1 and have used various Linux distros over the years. I always thought macOS was weird and unintuitive. (What do you mean the mouse doesn't have a right click button!?) But I slowly made my way into the Apple ecosystem, first with iTunes and a low end iPod nano in the early 2000s, then with an iPhone (starting with the iPhone 4s), then AirPods 2. This Spring, I needed a more portable laptop with better battery life (because I had to spend a lot of time in doctors' offices and hospitals with a family member in poor health) and decided to go crazy and try a MacBook Air 15 M2 because it seemed to be the king of portable laptops and the tight integration with my iPhone and the end-to-end encryption of Advanced Data Protection for iCloud was appealing. And....

WOW!! It was magic from the first time I held the MacBook Air and opened the lid!

After 8 months, my MacBook Air 15 M2 still feels magical every time I use it. I have a hard time expressing what a truly revolutionary experience it has been. I find the MacBook Air to be the most magical piece of technology I have ever owned. I never have to think about battery capacity, booting up, etc. I just pick it up, open the lid, press my finger on the Touch ID button, and it's ready for me to do work. When I'm done, I just close the lid and put it back in the bag. It's the convenience, security, and stability of an iPhone with the power of a high end computer. Apple's marketing pitch of "If you love iPhone, you’ll love Mac." really is true. The MacBook Air with Apple silicon are what laptops were always meant to be--highly portable, secure, powerful, with incredible battery life, and with an intuitive and rock solid OS.

It is incredible how seamlessly I can transition between my iPhone, my MacBook Air, my Mac Studio M2 Max (which I bought this summer to be my primary computer to replace my home desktop), and my iPad 9th generation (which I happened to win in a drawing this autumn). (And my AirPods seamlessly transition as I move between devices too.) With an iCloud+ subscription and storing all of my primary documents in iCloud Drive with Advanced Data Protection, all of my stuff is always securely encrypted, always in sync, and always available on my phone (iPhone), tablet (iPad 9th gen), laptop (MacBook Air M2), and desktop (Mac Studio M2 Max).

At first, when I got my Mac, I was reading about different apps to make using a Mac feel more "Windows-like". But then I quickly realized that macOS (at least as of Sonoma) is, actually, the most intuitive OS I've ever used. When I go to work and have to use a Windows desktop it now feels so clunky and inefficient.

The only real downside is that Apple products are expensive compared to other brands of phones and computers. Apple commands a premium price, but you get a premium experience. I can't imagine going back to Windows (or Linux).

It's probably preaching to the choir to talk in this forum about how great Apple products are, but sometimes people get used to things and forget how amazing they are. Maybe Apple isn't "cool" in the edgy, countercultural, different from everybody else sense. But I think my MacBook Air is the coolest computer I've ever owned. All I can say is that I wish I had switched to Mac years ago, and that after 8+ months of using Macs, they still feel magical every single day!

 

[Starfia]

Not another one of these posts.

Yeah, I'm sick of thoughtful posts.

 

[I7guy]

No, this is still the case , in fact Apple was never more expensive than it is today. It used to also be better. But not anymore. Now in many regards it is stagnant not a leader.

Some objective or even subjective discussion would be beneficial.

It is not special today. It used to be amazingly special before, and people would like up to see it. I lived thru this.

Again, Romano up the veracity of your claims some discussion points would be useful.

The world has changed. Before, everyone else was so much worse. Today, apple is the stagnant one.

Some discussion points would be useful so there could be actually be a discussion.

No, no. Apple WAS indeed so much better then the competition. back then - iphone was a device that a timetraveler brought back to the past. They were objectively a couple years ahead - even Steve said so in a Keynote.

Ah - that’s the objectivity I was looking for: “Steve said so”.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

It's happened

The iPod era had a ton of "cool" devices with cultural cache, especially the iPod Mini era

Apple aren't really even a company "trying" in the new mainstream hit product space.

The AVP is the closest thing and that, even if somehow becomes more successful at some point, is serious dorky territory.

The Watch could have potential, but they are doing like "nothing" with that. I mean how many times can we shove out the same barely changed rectangle? It's mind blowing to me that they haven't carved that market up into a ton of different form factors and styles -- watches are straight up fashion items with TONS of potential, and they have just defaulted to a nerdy computer rectangle and "watch bands"

It's just so conservative and low effort

You hit no home runs when barely swinging the bat

It's almost like Tim is too worried to rock the whole boat and really take risk.

I really don't get it -- he's personally fabulously wealthy ... his current legacy is "boring bean counter OPs guy" ... hardly to be remembered as anything other than a captain holding the wheel going straight through calm waters.

Take chances .. go for it!
We live once ... if there are big failures, so be it -- live a little Tim

Nobody cares how much money you made when you're dead

I’d argue that under Tim Cook Apple’s wearable’s market has become one of their most important, and thats something Steve never got very involved with.
Sure, there was the iPod nano sixth generation, but that was more something that accessory companies came up with, not Apple themselves. They just jumped on that trend when it took off.

The Apple Watch was extremely important, rather you think it’s ugly or not people love them. It easily could have crashed and burned, but it didn’t, and now there are people that will switch to the iPhone, simply to have an Apple Watch.
Same goes for AirPods, Apple didn’t just make Bluetooth headphones, they made the most easy to use Bluetooth headphones that just switched between devices and are tiny enough to go anywhere.
I’d argue the Apple Watch Series any, the AirPods Pro2 and the M4 Mac Mini are three of Apple‘s best products ever, and they are products that Steve Jobs could only have ever dreamed of.
And no, Steve starting work on Apple Silicon in 2008 means very little today, at the end of the day, he is not the guy that switched the Mac to Apple Silicon.
We can’t just say “Steve did everything” when he hasn’t been there for almost 14 years.

Also, Tim Cook fails to take chances on products that might be failures? Excuse me? The 12 inch MacBook? The butterfly keyboard MacBook Pro? The HomePod? The iPhone Mini? The 2013 MacPro? The M1 chip? The Apple Vision Pro?
These were all massive risks, plenty of them were complete failures.
But they led to significantly better products.

 

[dduraznito]

What you are asking is very personal, so I can only describe what I feel as a 32-year-old who remembers 2000 onwards, and by no means can be generalized. I'm sure downvotes will be proof of that lol
To me, there certainly is less magic, and I see this reflected even in the packaging: I compare the experience of getting my 2006 iPod Shuffle and opening the beautiful plastic box it came in (with even a dock!) to today's iPhones that are barely the phone in an "as-small-as-possible" cardboard box with nothing else. Still pretty, but it's the bare minimum.
But then I also feel the same about technology in general. New electronic products across the board don't offer the quantum leaps we saw in the 2000s and it's all mostly incremental now. I've lost the appeal of technology. Maybe I grew out of being a techie boy.
And even though they did a great job with Apple Silicon, I also think Apple missed the next big thing by focusing on AR/VR when it was actually AI, and now they are trying to catch up.

 

[TomFromAndroid]

Just my $.02, as one with very limited Apple experience. (All I own so far are an iPad mini and an iPhone SE).

For my part, I always avoided Apple, partly because (A) I was cheap and (B) I always thought that all the hype surrounding the brand was just that: Hype, for which one payed a premium just for the sake of looking or seeming cool.

I decided to go with Apple for the phone and tablet because I was in search of something with a more stable OS, was better built, and wouldn't become obsolete as quickly as Android. I stuck with Dell for my desktop machine (which is what I'm writing this on) mainly for price and also because some of my aviation-related software wouldn't run on a Mac without some kind of 3rd party conversion software. I'm now sorely tempted to go with that gorgeous new 24" iMac because I'm so sick of all these Windows updates that never seem to improve anything and all the antivirus BS. IOW, my interest in Apple is for purely practical reasons: Performance, stability and workmanship. The cool factor really doesn't enter into it.

 

[jorgk]

Anyone still on an intel Macbook, is in for a "wow" when they upgrade, even if it is to a 5 year old (in 2025) M1.

I thought so before I did the jump. {maxed out MBP 2012 with High Sierra to MBP M2 Max}.

In the end, not THAT huge a difference. I lost many apps that were not updated by their developers (but in case the software was also [in the past] available for Windows, that version mostly is still usable on W10 - WTF).
All the standard office stuff (yes, e.g. MS Office 2019, iMail, Preview, ...) doesn't work much better than before; even still takes a moment to open despite the 'fast' machine.

I remember, it was a very different experience when changing from Motorola 68000 macs to PowerPC; there were worlds between those machines.

 

[macbug]

I thought so before I did the jump. {maxed out MBP 2012 with High Sierra to MBP M2 Max}.

In the end, not THAT huge a difference. I lost many apps that were not updated by their developers (but in case the software was also [in the past] available for Windows, that version mostly is still usable on W10 - WTF).
All the standard office stuff (yes, e.g. MS Office 2019, iMail, Preview, ...) doesn't work much better than before; even still takes a moment to open despite the 'fast' machine.

I remember, it was a very different experience when changing from Motorola 68000 macs to PowerPC; there were worlds between those machines.

Man, I must have had a different PowerPC than you. The transition from 68000 to PowerPC was an absolute disaster at first. Rosetta ( 1 for those that are counting, 2 is in your Apple Silicon machine ) wasn't just inefficient at first, Apple's lack of a cache on the lower priced models meant you'd get Quadra 630 speeds on anything that wasn't native. And that process of conversion took a long time when most people had 56k modems & no World Wide Web. I think this is what they mean when they say we look at the past through rose colored glasses.

 

[JamesMay82]

I think its the best it’s ever been!

My requests are

1. iTunes lossless purchases - i thunk people are falling out of love with streaming and they could be a big player if they switched it on first to lossless…. My friends 14 year old asked for a record player! Which is a good sign for ownership

2. Apple TV app to sync home movies to the cloud. I don’t like them in photos app.

 

[Abazigal]

I really don't get it -- he's personally fabulously wealthy ... his current legacy is "boring bean counter OPs guy" ... hardly to be remembered as anything other than a captain holding the wheel going straight through calm waters.

Would that be such a bad thing?

Take the upcoming Trump presidency for example. Tim Cook may well remain the best person at Apple to manage Trump and guide Apple through the next 4 years, and maybe that's the sort of leader Apple really needs right now. Someone who knows how to navigate tricky political minefields around the world while still coming out on top.

In contrast, someone like Steve Jobs sounds like he would be a disaster in today's volatile landscape. Can you imagine the fallout if he were to tell the PM of some country to go F himself over some disparaging remark towards Apple, and he sure as heck wouldn't capitulate one bit with regard to the EU and the DMA.

The best-designed product is useless if you don't have the proper supply chain in place to manufacture it in the quantities that Apple sells today. I remain of the opinion that different people are needed for different stages of Apple, and Tim Cook is still the ideal person to run and manage Apple today.

 

[AbeTheSuccinct]

I have a 2012 Mac Pro and I get the sense that it was the last genuinely exclusively pro-oriented machine. I’m only 21 so I can’t really speak with the perspective that most others here can, but I do agree that it’s just not as appealing to nerds like me anymore. That classic Mac Pro generation simultaneously was polished and professional while also being extremely modular and upgradable. Everything released today just isn’t as professional-friendly.

 

[nathansz]

Or are we just chasing the nostalgia of the old days?

Who’s we?

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Apple, just like any other company strives to make profit. This is not necessarily bad, however.
But as a long time user of Apple products I feel that Apple has lost its luster in recent years, specially after the incessant idea of product "thinness." The iPod was a great innovation, the iPad was another, then the iPhone, and iOS.

The iMac was exciting up to perhaps 2019-2020, but look at it now with its overpriced RAM and internal storage, plus so thin that looks like a piece of glass. Maybe it has a "quantum chip" inside? It has nothing to do with money; I just find it as boring as the iPad collecting dust on my desk. What is so great about the iPhone past the 13 or maybe iPhone 14? Maybe the camera, the "Intelligence" thing?

The Mini is quite promising because it holds the interest of a lot of people (including myself), but it feels like Apple is fleecing the customers with the high cost of RAM, and storage. A product Apple has done quite well is OS-X.

About making smaller and and thinner devices: it is not to help the environment and the rest, but to reduce the use of construction materials (conductors, insulation, plastic, metals, etc.), all with benefit the profit margin. Nothing else.

 

[Galatian]

Don’t want to sound snarky, but the gist of your post is: „I want the time back, when I could show of with Apple products.“

Get yourself a Corvette or Porsche. Apple products are not so expensive for them to be something to show off. Look inside any Starbucks or lecture hall in a university and you will see > 50% MacBooks.

Personally I like to try Apple things out, some are good, some are like really really bad. I’ve been with Apple since the iPod but really got invested with the first iPhone. Things that are frustratingly bad for me: HomePods. Not only is it baffling to me, that I can purchase those things, but only my husband as the „Home Owner“ can set them up, the sound quality is just not worth the price. Get some good speaker and an A/V-Receiver, much better value. But maybe I just don’t get that entire Smart Speaker thing.

Also: still owning two Apple IDs. You know from the time, there was no Apple ID, but all purchases needed an account. I wish I could finally merge it all.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Would that be such a bad thing?

Take the upcoming Trump presidency for example. Tim Cook may well remain the best person at Apple to manage Trump and guide Apple through the next 4 years, and maybe that's the sort of leader Apple really needs right now. Someone who knows how to navigate tricky political minefields around the world while still coming out on top.

In contrast, someone like Steve Jobs sounds like he would be a disaster in today's volatile landscape. Can you imagine the fallout if he were to tell the PM of some country to go F himself over some disparaging remark towards Apple, and he sure as heck wouldn't capitulate one bit with regard to the EU and the DMA.

The best-designed product is useless if you don't have the proper supply chain in place to manufacture it in the quantities that Apple sells today. I remain of the opinion that different people are needed for different stages of Apple, and Tim Cook is still the ideal person to run and manage Apple today.

And this all still banks on the fact that a 70 year old Jobs would still be running Apple, which is doubtful.
It’s very likely that even if Steve were still alive it would be Tim Cook still in charge.

 

[Eric Idle]

Apple used to be a company that and the most elegant integration of software and hardware. Today's software from Apple is some of the most abysmal software in human history. No care or thought whatsoever goes into today's Apple software. This has been true for MANY years. From the discontinuation of Aperture, to the utterly dumbing down of Apple's pro video software down to iMovie. The software has gotten worse and worse and worse.

That more than anything has taken away the magic that was once Apple. Their efforts with software are just pathetic. Anyone who has been using Apples software from the Apple II on up as I have knows this.

 

[Eric Idle]

Apples best days are behind them, without dramatic changes. They haven’t written good software in years. And none of their hardware designs are fresh or innovative. They seem to only be able to do one thing well at a time right now, and currently they’ve chosen silicon.

100% correct. Apple software is beyond appalling. It is simply awful software, all across the board. No matter how many improvements you suggest, none of them are integrated.

Look at what Apple did to Dark Sky. That one instance shows how miserable Apple's software team is.

 

[Eric Idle]

I am totally with you. Long time apple fan, share holder, and I worked there for a time.

TLDR: Its still good, but no longer great. Definitely not as cool as it once was.

To be counter cultural, you actually have to do things drastically good for people and the environment / world in a way other companies don't do... and well.. Apple is not that anymore. There was a time when the Mac Pro would smoke the pants of ANY pc and still be priced competitively, now its like, well it has good performance in this one specific workload, but here, lets double the price.

The iPod, iPhone, were real meaningful cultural change agents. The Apple Watch, TV+, Siri, AirPods, are not. They're not bad, they're just ok. Meanwhile Vision Pro and Apple Intelligence are the most dissapointing Apple products since Apple Maps. Seriously, I don't know what Apple leadership is thinking marketing both so heavily when they're clearly not ready, both are a complete embarrassment (and I was stoked for both before their launch, I really wanted to love both of them). Jobs would have fired teams, or delayed launching them, its amazingly out of touch.

I recently sold a significant portion of my shares (not trading advice, bla blah, just sharing my opinion)

Tesla is making iRobot a reality, SpaceX put internet in the farthest corners of earth, Anthropic and others are changing the way every knowledge worker does their job, meanwhile bean counters at Apple are like, yeah, one more 48mp camera should be enough, and nah, what's wrong with our RAM or SSD pricing?

Its completely arrogant, complacent, and out of touch. They are due for massive disruption, and the AI companies are gonna give it to them. Apple Silicon is the only seriously impressive thing Apple has done this decade, otherwise it's pretty lackluster, while continuing with hostile pricing and App Store policies so tone deaf the EU had to tear it from their fingers one at a time.

My prediction: with the disappointment of Vision Pro and Apple Intelligence, Apple is due for a rude wake up call similar to what Microsoft experienced under the end of Balmer's reign.

Perfect post. Cook is just as inept and out of touch as Balmer was. He needs to be launched and FAST to save Apple.

 

[brofkand]

100% correct. Apple software is beyond appalling. It is simply awful software, all across the board. No matter how many improvements you suggest, none of them are integrated.

Look at what Apple did to Dark Sky. That one instance shows how miserable Apple's software team is.

The fact that Apple's platforms are still usable today is a testament to how far ahead they were 10 years ago.

Look at how unusable the Settings app is on macOS and iOS today - they ruined the Settings app.