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Ok, I know where you’re coming from. I had the first generation iPod with FireWire port. I was amazed at having 1000 songs in my pocket. But, I was 19 years old back then. Apple still makes great products and I have all categories except the Vision Pro. I guess I don’t get as excited as when I was 19 years old.
 
[Apple Vision Pro]

A massive L. Worse, perfecting the VR headset after it had largely died as a category took Apple’s eye off the AI ball. This left them badly behind in something that does have the potential to be revolutionary (though the jury’s still out).
Do you really think that Apple, a company that spends the GDP of a small nation on R&D, can only work on one thing at a time? I hardly think that the AVP, or even their car project, were holding Apple back from mucking about with LLMs.
 
The easy litmus test for me is this:

Map the decisions, products and service offerings onto any number of other brands and imagine how folks would react to those things

Would we here on this forum be defending Samsung if they were continuing to pump out "meh" quality/technology low refresh screens on many/most devices?

What about the 4x+ component upgrade ripoffs?
Could you imagine how we would excoriate and laugh at Samsung for doing that to their customers?

We could go all day with examples of Apple behavior that gets defended here, but would be absolutely derided if any other company were doing it


tldr -- the magic is long gone here and Apple is a hyper optimized money harvesting operation masquerading as a tech company

Tim "Cooked it"
TLDR: Apple isn't a charity and exists to make money. How they choose to make it is nobody's concern or business.

You don't like what you see from Apple (or any other company for that matter) leave and move to one that does.
 
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The easy litmus test for me is this:

Map the decisions, products and service offerings onto any number of other brands and imagine how folks would react to those things

Would we here on this forum be defending Samsung if they were continuing to pump out "meh" quality/technology low refresh screens on many/most devices?

What about the 4x+ component upgrade ripoffs?
Could you imagine how we would excoriate and laugh at Samsung for doing that to their customers?

We could go all day with examples of Apple behavior that gets defended here, but would be absolutely derided if any other company were doing it


tldr -- the magic is long gone here and Apple is a hyper optimized money harvesting operation masquerading as a tech company

Tim "Cooked it"
The difference is that Apple sells an experience, while Samsung just sells parts. That is why Apple has mostly managed to avoid commoditisation (by creating an integrated user experience that customers are willing to pay a premium for). This is also the reason why Samsung doesn't enjoy the same pricing power that Apple does, because they don't vertically integrate the same way. Their phones run the same OS that many other Android phones do. The services are the same. The App Store is the same. The processor is the same. Maybe they do make the best screens and the fastest ram, and that in itself is not enough to meaningfully differentiate their wares from the rest of the competition (because they also sell their components to other companies).

Same thing with component upgrade pricing. The main reason why Samsung wouldn't get away with it is again, because they are selling commodity hardware with a ton of alternatives. There is nothing special about their laptops. They run windows, they run intel / AMD hardware, they use the same ram and SSD found everywhere else, and their trackpads are equally crap. There is nothing unique about their computers, so if they tried to charge more, people would simply shop elsewhere.

Conversely, Apple has again, managed to differentiate their PCs via apple silicon, macOS, MagSafe, a superior trackpad design, the integration with the rest of the ecosystem, Final Cut Pro and their own unique take on design (many laptops continue to be made of cheap plastic precisely because the OEMs lack pricing power). Can I find a cheaper laptop elsewhere? Sure. But if I specifically want a laptop that does all the aforementioned stuff in a manner that only Apple can (eg: the power efficiency that comes only with Apple Silicon or being able to edit videos via FCP), then I have no choice but the pay whatever Apple charges for additional ram and storage.

That to me is value. Not about who charges the absolute lowest for a product, but what I get out of it. Why I continue to use Apple products is because I know that while I pay more upfront, they quickly pay for themselves in the form of fewer problems and better productivity overall. You can tell me that Xiaomi sells an android tablet for half the price of an iPad, and I wouldn't be interested because I know the apps I use on iOS are largely not available on Android.

Maybe the only thing that has changed is that Apple understands better than anyone else where they stand in the entire value chain, and the pricing power they possess by virtue of delivering sufficiently differentiated user experiences made possible by the control they have over hardware, software and services, and they are not afraid to take advantage of this, and well-deservedly so.

It's not that the other companies don't do this out of the kindness of their hearts. It's that they can't, because they lack the differentiation that Apple has, by virtue of Apple being one of the very few companies actually willing to invest in having their own ecosystem to begin with.

A large part of the credit belongs to Tim Cook for not wavering from the path that Steve Jobs set, and for continuing to double down on that ecosystem moat, both for better and for worse. 😊
 
Apple has now hit a stage where major changes upset the mainstream. It’s why Windows kept keeping the old UI - old software needed it. Apple can’t change too much because it would change too much how we know how to use it.

On my iPhone 15 pro - I don’t use the action button except for ring/silent. I have no interest in learning a new workflow.

Everything will be incremental on purpose. They can’t shock, on purpose.

Kinda funny that a lot of you believe that Apple has run out of ideas.
 
Lost it's magic? IMO the magic of Apple has never been stronger. I'm typing this post from a fanless laptop with an absurd number of tabs open. The palm rests are cool to the touch. I can start editing a video and not have to close a single one. As someone who used to bring 'Pro' devices to their knees just by tab spamming, this is a revelation. Apple took an iPhone chip, made it into a leader in desktop class computing, and did it without a fan.

This is an M1 I'm talking about. It still blows my mind.
 
100% spot on. Siri has sucked for its entire existence. Nothing proves better how miserable Apple's quality standards have dropped than Siri.
The problem comes when Apple tries to be something they're not. They're not Google, who has access to maps and data and everything about everyone.

I don't want Apple to be Google. One of the reasons I like Apple is because they treat my privacy and security with higher regard. They could gather the data to be a Google but they don't I don't want them tracking me like that.

This is my grievance, but I like it that way.

I want Apple to be a protective layer between me and Google. A Google prophylactic to protect me from an AI-STD.
 
There's certainly no longer the pressure to innovate.

There is huge pressure to innovate.

With 50% of their revenue coming from the iPhone if they don't keep making it better then there is a problem.

AI is exploding everywhere. If they can't keep up, or surpass other AI services then they are in big trouble.

When they can get the apple watch to read blood sugar it will be huge.
 
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So what was stopping them then?
I don't know any better than anyone else does, but I get the feeling that it was probably a case of the managers who had the power to steer development didn't expect LLMs to take off the way they did, and didn't invest enough time into them. Apple has been active in AI, working with Machine Learning for a while, and having Neural Engines in their systems since the iPhone 8/X. It just seems as though they misjudged LLMs. Maybe they thought their drawbacks would matter more to people than they actually do. Few people seem to care that LLMs are unreliable and inaccurate, so much so that many use them as search engines!
 
TLDR: Apple isn't a charity and exists to make money. How they choose to make it is nobody's concern or business.

You don't like what you see from Apple (or any other company for that matter) leave and move to one that does.
Please be gentle with the poor soul 😇

Posters have different opinions about Apple as a company in this and other forums.
 
The problem comes when Apple tries to be something they're not. They're not Google, who has access to maps and data and everything about everyone.

I don't want Apple to be Google. One of the reasons I like Apple is because they treat my privacy and security with higher regard. They could gather the data to be a Google but they don't I don't want them tracking me like that.

This is my grievance, but I like it that way.

I want Apple to be a protective layer between me and Google. A Google prophylactic to protect me from an AI-STD.
Maybe the Apple of the future will be something like this: we the user will have Apple devices of various kinds, but these devices are much like computer terminals connected to Apple supercomputers. Everything we do with these gadgets (music, photo-editing, various types of works, business, monetary transactions, and so on) are stored at some Apple remote location. Photo and video editing to be done using Apple apps, just like what Adobe has done with their PhotoShop and several other apps. There won't be any need for the user to buy and use independent apps, not even to store one's work at home nor anywhere else, but in iCloud.

~Just kidding.

But on a serious note, don't believe for a minute that Apple does not keep track of every action you take, every word you say or write, with your iPhone, Mac, iPod, iPad, health, and so on. Apple may not be as overt than Google, but that's about it.
 
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Maybe the Apple of the future will be something like this: we the user will have Apple devices of various kinds, but these devices are much like computer terminals connected to Apple supercomputers. Everything we do with these gadgets (music, photo-editing, various types of works, business, monetary transactions, and so on) are stored at some Apple remote location. Photo and video editing to be done using Apple apps, just like what Adobe has done with their PhotoShop and several other apps. There won't be any need for the user to buy and use independent apps, not even to store one's work at home nor anywhere else, but in iCloud.

~Just kidding.

But on a serious note, don't believe for a minute that Apple does not keep track of every action you take, every word you say or write, with your iPhone, Mac, iPod, iPad, health, and so on. Apple may not be as overt than Google, but that's about it.
I dont think Apple is doing this. I am sre cynical conspiracy theorists will insist otherwise but the greatest thing (or worst depending on how you look at it) that happened to Apple was the celebrity icloud hack because it committed Apple to protecting customer data and privacy.

Tbe reason Siri sucks is because it doesn't share data. Its the reason Apple Intelligence will probably suck, because Apple won't take the leap that everyone else is.

If they were mining data Siri and everything else would be so much easier.
 
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Apple products are getting cheaper on the inside as they try to squeeze more profit but still look fancy on the outside (I still detest the new Mac mini but Apple saved alot of money building that Bluetooth dropping puck that two of my friends have) Im sticking with my M2 pro as I dont buy comouters yearly for the sake of a new SoC.

Many companies in 2024/25 with the geo political state of the world are looking to cut production costs, talks of monumental tariffs from the US, well the iPhone may need to be made in the US then it will cost more as you pay US wages to build it, hence Apple not putting an X75 in the 16 Pro which I bought because I have a two year personal upgrade cycle so I don't loose to much cash on my old models, but with talks of new home built modems that might be my last iPhone for a while.

Android phones are just as good, but don't hold there money but they are good tools, and that's the word here 'tools' thats all they are. Apple now make are dull boring cheaply made on the inside tools, and thats just fine by me. As to who desighned them and how thin they are etc well I dont care, I dont know one peorson that has asked me what model iPhone I use because the truth is nobody cares anymore which is as it should be leave the iPhone alone it looks fine works well and is already to poweful but now cam make childish AI cartoons, and for the love of god I look like a grey haired Mr Beast in all mine.

I'll keep using the ChatGBT app I think, and save my battery life. Maybe just maybe the Visual inteligence (sorry these names leave a bad PR taste in my mouth) may be useful but thats about it for me, but thanks for RCS, it really makes communicating with Android a more level playimg field. As to whats coming next year, god knows but I hope its not something pointy looking, and traveling at nearly Mach 10!
 
The difference is that Apple sells an experience, while Samsung just sells parts. That is why Apple has mostly managed to avoid commoditisation (by creating an integrated user experience that customers are willing to pay a premium for). This is also the reason why Samsung doesn't enjoy the same pricing power that Apple does, because they don't vertically integrate the same way. Their phones run the same OS that many other Android phones do. The services are the same. The App Store is the same. The processor is the same. Maybe they do make the best screens and the fastest ram, and that in itself is not enough to meaningfully differentiate their wares from the rest of the competition (because they also sell their components to other companies).

You can totally achieve a unique experience with a widely used operating system. Sony used to do this with VAIOs back in the day. Framework currently does it with their funky modular laptops. Microsoft did it with their Surface computers. Samsung & HTC had some pretty outlandish themes back in the day - I'd still argue that while Samsung toned it down a lot, they have some funky quirks that are kinda unique to Samsung phones (even though you COULD emulate it on another platform).

Owning the display tech does provide Samsung a fun edge. I have an iPhone and a Galaxy Fold. I do love using that folding phone lol.

I'm glad Apple makes their OS because the world doesn't need an operating system monopoly, but I don't think that the vendor-lock-in that Apple's "vertical integration" provides really does a lot for the experience.

Imagine if all of the things that you love about the Apple Ecosystem were actually open standards and you could seamlessly interact your Apple devices with devices from other brands without awkwardness. If you could buy any choice of smartwatch. If you could stream from your iPhone to ANY TV without having to buy an Apple TV box. If you could answer phone calls from your iPhone using your xbox.

The vendor-lock-in aka ecosystem is just half-assing it. Repeatedly.
 
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Do you think the “Apple magic” is gone?

• Are we just being nostalgic for the Steve Jobs days?

• If you were an Apple fan in the ’80s, ’90s, or early 2000s, do you feel like the “vibe” is different now compared to the era of 2018 and beyond?

• Is it possible for a company this successful to ever feel countercultural again?
I think a lot of the whimsical, small things and the courage to take some risks have gone - we don't see innovative designs like the imac g4, the iphone 5c or the ever changing ipod nano any more and - to add insult to injury - have exchanged them for soldered on RAM and homepod minis with a fixed cable. Not that apple hasn't done excluding, greedy things in the olden days, but that felt more like a trade off - you also got something for it.

It sure feels like a lot of the magic is gone, but Apple's tightly integrated eco-system is still unmotched. It's dark side is vendor-lock in that feels more restricting the blander their hardware gets. I like my homepods, but it's a collosal waste of ressources to build them to exclude bluetooth audio (and not make the cables replaceable). It really reveals all that green-talk as marketing-BS.

Apple has gotten worse but they are still better than others in a lot of regards - but not by that much anymore. I think it's all circular - there will be a tipping point where people won't pay premium prices for products that are not so premium anymore and than apple will have to adapt again.
 
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Imagine if all of the things that you love about the Apple Ecosystem were actually open standards and you could seamlessly interact your Apple devices with devices from other brands without awkwardness. If you could buy any choice of smartwatch. If you could stream from your iPhone to ANY TV without having to buy an Apple TV box. If you could answer phone calls from your iPhone using your xbox.
I am not convinced it would work out in the long run, as I believe that it is primarily the desire and the possibility of supernormal profits that drives Apple to continue investing in their ecosystem. Imagine if you were in Apple's shoes, and basically told by the government that all these APIs and technologies that you spent money developing, you had to give away for free to the competition, who will then compete with you in the market and depress your own profits.

It's also a variation of an ongoing discussion I have been engaged in with another forum member over the merits of the DMA. My concern is that while users might benefit from a more "open" platform today, we might be disadvantaged in the future from Apple having less of an incentive to invest in now features for their products. And why would Apple, if I am just going to give it all away for free at the end of the day?

For example, the reason why we get an Apple Watch Ultra is because Apple is able to get away with selling a smartwatch for $800, and because there are people wiling to actually pay that much money for one. As such, Apple is willing to invest in designing and manufacturing one. Open up the Apple Watch platform to third parties, you get a race to the bottom which basically erodes any possibility of supernormal profits, and it is the vitality and viability of the platform which ultimately suffers in the long run.

Perhaps the best example of things would turn out is to take a look over at the Android side.


And while not every loss for Android is a win for Apple, Android’s bumpy road beyond the smartphone stands in contrast to the hits Apple has had with the iPad and Apple Watch, which dominate their categories.

I believe the reason why many android smartwatch makers are having difficulty gaining traction in the market is because they can't charge too much, and they are ultimately dependent on Google for updates, and Google doesn't seem very invested in said platform themselves, possibly because there isn't much money to be made.

Alternatively, it may drive Apple to rethink their business model, and I am not sure that's a road you want Apple to go down either.
 
I don't know any better than anyone else does, but I get the feeling that it was probably a case of the managers who had the power to steer development didn't expect LLMs to take off the way they did, and didn't invest enough time into them. Apple has been active in AI, working with Machine Learning for a while, and having Neural Engines in their systems since the iPhone 8/X. It just seems as though they misjudged LLMs. Maybe they thought their drawbacks would matter more to people than they actually do. Few people seem to care that LLMs are unreliable and inaccurate, so much so that many use them as search engines!

So the management were out of touch then. Competing with Tesla and HTC, when they should have been paying attention to industry developments in AI. It reminds me of Microsoft pursuing CD-ROM, dismissing the Internet as a fad, then having to pedal hard to catch up.

It's likely that Apple's device-focussed approach puts them at a disadvantage to companies like Google and Meta, whose business it is to harvest and analyse data. I'm sure the latter were able to see the potential much earlier.
 
So the management were out of touch then. Competing with Tesla and HTC, when they should have been paying attention to industry developments in AI. It reminds me of Microsoft pursuing CD-ROM, dismissing the Internet as a fad, then having to pedal hard to catch up.

It's likely that Apple's device-focussed approach puts them at a disadvantage to companies like Google and Meta, whose business it is to harvest and analyse data. I'm sure the latter were able to see the potential much earlier.
That does seem realistic to me. Even good managers will miss something at some point.

You might have a point there. Since they're data-focused, they could see ways to exploit LLMs sooner. However, originally I was really skeptical about Apple joining the AI bandwagon, but seeing the route they're taking does seem to me to look like where AI will end up after the bubble bursts, and everyone stops trying to wedge chatbots into washing machines and fridges and whatnot. Just another technology powering better tools.
 
originally I was really skeptical about Apple joining the AI bandwagon, but seeing the route they're taking does seem to me to look like where AI will end up after the bubble bursts, and everyone stops trying to wedge chatbots into washing machines and fridges and whatnot. Just another technology powering better tools.

 
Most products are in a maturity phase and the other part of the answer can be found in two dates:
2011: Steve Jobs dies
2019: Jony Ive leaves
 
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