iPhone XS Max Is the mobile reception on the xs Max even worse than iPhone X ?

[Nhwhazup]

From the experience in my household on ATT in NH, 3 iPhones (6S Plus, 8 and returned Max all have/had horrible cellular connectivity/reception since the iOS 12 update. Only device running as usual on cellular is the IPP and that’s still on 11.4.1

 

[Raudy5]

Apart from mentioning that the XR has higher radiated power than the XS/max it doesn’t say anything about power or the current being pushed to the antenna by the XR vs the XS in the linked article. Also, that FCC filing came out on the 27th September, not today, and that Toms Guide article is based on the opinion of the same guy who wrote the other article you linked, who (as has been pointed out earlier in this thread) both has no obvious RF engineering qualifications (although he has apparently been a longtime commenter on cellular tech on other forums) and has a record of being anti-Apple on those same forums. It might still be hardware but at this point no-one really knows.

I think he makes himself pretty clear in this post, I should have included it.

Post here

As far as a record of being anti-apple, he supports his findings with ample data, I'm going to trust data more than anecdotal "he's anti-this or that." I agree 100% however that we just don't know. None of what I said is anything but my hypothesis based on the data as i interpret it.

But here's the thing: Apple really needs to come out and communicate with us, the customer like....yesterday.

There is clearly a problem affecting many users, and this silence is why I'm doing self-taught RF classes by way of google instead of patiently waiting for a forthcoming fix. It's a bummer.

I like and respect Apple, and the customer service I got from one of their senior support in replacing my device was exemplary. Like really above and beyond. Bottom line though. I can't function professionally with a phone that performs it's core function (connectivity) so poorly. So something has to give by way of the customer being empowered to make decisions so they can have a device that functions up to roughly the standards of past devices.
[doublepost=1538869095][/doublepost]

There really seems to be no rhyme or reason. I’ve been on these forums since the issue was first starting to be reported. I’ve had the issues with my XS Max on AT&T in NYC since launch day.

I’ve tried everything. I’ve been in touch with Apple for over a week now. Doing what others on this forum have with installing log profiles and sending them sysdiagnose files etc. I’ve been a very patient customer. Quite frankly if I hadn’t already sold my 7+ I would have returned this phone and been for the better. Unfortunately I don’t have a back up phone so I’m stuck.

I know identifying the root cause and issuing a proper statement or fix takes time but I’m really losing my patience. Today I was driving to upstate NY trying to use my phone for GPS and it was infuriating. Waze was struggling to ever find internet and plan my route. My wife’s 6s had no issue and we had to use that. Then I received a call from my mother, answered but she couldn’t hear me at all. Voice cutting in and out. I had to call her back from my wife’s phone. There’s no excuse for this.

Being told over and over to “hang tight” while still waiting for Apple to address those with issues is mind numbing. Not being able to use this expensive phone is not acceptable. Whenever I’m by another device like my iPad or MacBook I am forced to have to use those instead given this phone is a glorified brick. I’ve posted on this and other threads throughout this whole nightmare. I’m just livid at this point.

Screenshots over the past 24hrs.

It's totally understandable. I think we as consumers are pretty understanding (especially early adopters) as long as the problem is at least acknowledged. There's one scenario that's also possible that gives them the benefit of the doubt: there is a problem, it's quite large, and before they say anything they have to shift their operations substantially, supply chain etc. so when they announce the problem and the fix, they can have a definitive timeline.

They should still at least say something like "we're looking into it" to more than just individual customers.

 

[Messier77]

Same carrier?

Yes. Both with AT&T.
[doublepost=1538870484][/doublepost]

There really seems to be no rhyme or reason. I’ve been on these forums since the issue was first starting to be reported. I’ve had the issues with my XS Max on AT&T in NYC since launch day.

I’ve tried everything. I’ve been in touch with Apple for over a week now. Doing what others on this forum have with installing log profiles and sending them sysdiagnose files etc. I’ve been a very patient customer. Quite frankly if I hadn’t already sold my 7+ I would have returned this phone and been for the better. Unfortunately I don’t have a back up phone so I’m stuck.

I know identifying the root cause and issuing a proper statement or fix takes time but I’m really losing my patience. Today I was driving to upstate NY trying to use my phone for GPS and it was infuriating. Waze was struggling to ever find internet and plan my route. My wife’s 6s had no issue and we had to use that. Then I received a call from my mother, answered but she couldn’t hear me at all. Voice cutting in and out. I had to call her back from my wife’s phone. There’s no excuse for this.

Being told over and over to “hang tight” while still waiting for Apple to address those with issues is mind numbing. Not being able to use this expensive phone is not acceptable. Whenever I’m by another device like my iPad or MacBook I am forced to have to use those instead given this phone is a glorified brick. I’ve posted on this and other threads throughout this whole nightmare. I’m just livid at this point.

Screenshots over the past 24hrs.

I forgot to mention that this is my second iPhone Xs Max with the exact same issue...both capped at about 3mbps on LTE in over a hundred speed tests ranging from one bar to five bars and rural areas to large cities.

 

[Nhwhazup]

Yes. Both with AT&T.
[doublepost=1538870484][/doublepost]

I forgot to mention that this is my second iPhone Xs Max with the exact same issue...both capped at about 3mbps on LTE in over a hundred speed tests ranging from one bar to five bars and rural areas to large cities.

Wow, this stinks.

 

[Raudy5]

Yes. Both with AT&T.

This issue is a real "who done it?"

I'm assuming you both manually selected the same server, and if you did and you had parallel conditions but different results on the same device, then I have to be honest, that puts me right back to square 1...I'm as invested in the curiosity of the cause of this issue as i am in a fix at this point.

Ok, last hypothesis: is it possible the steel chassis came in after they tested the antenna? Like maybe they didn't do most of their testing inside the current steel frame, but an ad-hoc aluminum case? None of it makes sense. They are too smart and too thorough for something careless like a fundamental hardware design fail. Then again, the XR drops the steel for aluminum, drops the 4th band 4x4mimo and the FCC filings indicate the lab tests on antenna gain are way better than the xs or xs max, so there again, that points to a hardware issue.

Meh, that's all I've got, thanks for engaging. I'd love some info from Apple, that'd be swell.

 

[Messier77]

Wow, this stinks.

At least I’m not losing connection regularly....just very slow...so I’m more fortunate than some others in this thread.
[doublepost=1538871214][/doublepost]

This issue is a real "who done it?"

I'm assuming you both manually selected the same server, and if you did and you had parallel conditions but different results on the same device, then I have to be honest, that puts me right back to square 1...I'm as invested in the curiosity of the cause of this issue as i am in a fix at this point.

Ok, last hypothesis: is it possible the steel chassis came in after they tested the antenna? Like maybe they didn't do most of their testing inside the current steel frame, but an ad-hoc aluminum case? None of it makes sense. They are too smart and too thorough for something careless like a fundamental hardware design fail. Then again, the XR drops the steel for aluminum, drops the 4th band 4x4mimo and the FCC filings indicate the lab tests on antenna gain are way better than the xs or xs max, so there again, that points to a hardware issue.

Meh, that's all I've got, thanks for engaging. I'd love some info from Apple, that'd be swell.

I’m guessing it’s a combination of slight manufacturing defect resulting from extremely tight manufacturing tolerances for the new 4x4 antenna leading to some nearly imperceptible manufacturing issues plus poor software implementation of the new antenna/tower interaction by both the carriers and Apple causing cascading LTE connection/speed issues for some batches of iPhones.

The poor software implementation is probably masked when the antenna is manufactured/functioning perfectly, but becomes extremely noticeable when everything isn’t perfect.

 

[M5RahuL]

Not quite true. Please don’t post false information - people believe it.

Apple still signing it means you can install it from a DFU restore if required and it will validate against the Apple servers. iPhones running 11.4.1 will still function as normal as long as you don’t require a restore once Apple stop signing it.

Well yeah, what I meant was if they ever have to restore (and Apple stopped signing that version )..I should’ve stated that explicitly..

 

[jtrue28]

Bluetooth sucks ass too. This phone. GDit.

 

[rebretz000]

This issue is a real "who done it?"

I'm assuming you both manually selected the same server, and if you did and you had parallel conditions but different results on the same device, then I have to be honest, that puts me right back to square 1...I'm as invested in the curiosity of the cause of this issue as i am in a fix at this point.

Ok, last hypothesis: is it possible the steel chassis came in after they tested the antenna? Like maybe they didn't do most of their testing inside the current steel frame, but an ad-hoc aluminum case? None of it makes sense. They are too smart and too thorough for something careless like a fundamental hardware design fail. Then again, the XR drops the steel for aluminum, drops the 4th band 4x4mimo and the FCC filings indicate the lab tests on antenna gain are way better than the xs or xs max, so there again, that points to a hardware issue.

Meh, that's all I've got, thanks for engaging. I'd love some info from Apple, that'd be swell.

I was thinking it had something to do with the steel frame and chassis also. Is the iPhone the only phone to use a steel frame/chassis?
I know a lot are aluminum.

 

[PBz]

People running logs for Apple after giving them $1,000 for a phone is just wrong. I know it helps & I’m thankful to those doing it but just think about it. We give them money and then work for them to solve the issue. Been there. So many rounds (different issue) I felt like I was jumping through hoops for nothing. Not cool.

 

[1144557]

People running logs for Apple after giving them $1,000 for a phone is just wrong. I know it helps & I’m thankful to those doing it but just think about it. We give them money and then work for them to solve the issue. Been there. So many rounds (different issue) I felt like I was jumping through hoops for nothing. Not cool.

So your better suggestion is? Thumbs up our collective butts praying to the Apple gods it gets fixed without real-world data?

Why did people give Google $850 for a Pixel 2 XL with a crap screen?
$999 to Samsung for a Note 9 that the s-pens are breaking, and cameras/nav buttons freezing?
Or a $850 Note 7 that literally exploded in pockets?

EVERY device has some issue regardless of what you pay for it. If you dont want to help the manufacturer remedy the issues then don't that's one's choice, but then don't complain when it's not fixed in your desired timeframe either.

 

[PBz]

So your better suggestion is? Thumbs up our butts praying to the Apple gods it gets fixed without real-world data?

Why did people give Google $850 for a Pixel 2 XL with a crap screen?
$999 to Samsung for a Note 9 that the s-pens are breaking, and cameras/nav buttons freezing?

EVERY device has some issue regardless of what you pay for it. If you dont want to help then don't but then don't complain when it's not fixed in your desired timeframe either.

I know what I’m doing. I’m not giving them $ for an unfinished product.

 

[Messier77]

Well I feel like a moron now and this explains a lot. I just discovered that AT&T unilaterally switched me to a lower tier plan capped at 3mbps some time in late September (it appears on 9/21) without my authorization and without notifying me after “ending” the completely unlimited uncapped unthrottled plan I’d continually used for over a decade from my Cingular days.

Of course, they now won’t switch me back to a true unlimited plan without me paying significantly more, so I’ll have to get the phone unlocked and switch to Verizon or T-Mobile (never going back to AT&T after this), but I’m hopeful that it will work fine after that.

Sorry for being an idiot and sending the investigation off on a tangent. Didn’t even think to check my AT&T account for changes since I’d been on the same true unlimited plan for over 10 years.

 

[1144557]

I know what I’m doing. I’m not giving them $ for an unfinished product.

Then why are you here on your soap box complaining without a dog in the fight? That's not helping anyone here with the thread topic/issue simply saying not to cooperate with Apple to solve the problem because of your personal vendetta.

Everyone with actual skin in the game should WANT to help Apple make the phone they paid $1000 or better for the money they paid with incredibly minimal effort of installing an Apple profile to log some data.

 

[PBz]

Then why are you here on your soap box complaining without a dog in the fight? That's not helping anyone here with the thread topic/issue simply saying not to cooperate with Apple to solve the problem because of your personal vendetta.

Everyone with actual skin in the game should WANT to help Apple make the phone they paid $1000 or better for the money they paid with incredibly minimal effort of installing an Apple profile to log some data.

I’m in the market for the XS.
I have done a LOT of this testing for Apple for multiple products. I’ll post as I please.

 

[1144557]

I’m in the market for the XS.
I have done a LOT of this testing for Apple for multiple products. I’ll post as I please.

So again you're not helping anyone here on topic but rather a soap box rant that people should not log data for Apple to improve it, all while not even owning the phone yourself. Got it.

 

[PBz]

So again you're not helping anyone here on topic but rather a soap box rant that people should not log data for Apple to improve it, all while not even owning the phone yourself. Got it.

Never said people shouldn’t log. I’ve actually thanked them several times.

 

[elitypes]

Then why are you here on your soap box complaining without a dog in the fight? That's not helping anyone here with the thread topic/issue simply saying not to cooperate with Apple to solve the problem because of your personal vendetta.

Everyone with actual skin in the game should WANT to help Apple make the phone they paid $1000 or better for the money they paid with incredibly minimal effort of installing an Apple profile to log some data.

I see both sides. Trying to be diplomatic about the whole thing. Of course those of us with issues want to do what we can to help get the problems addressed. Yes I’ve installed the profiles and sent numerous logs and sysdiagnose files. I’ve spent over 3 hours on the phone with the support representative.

However on the flip side when is enough enough? Yes I’m helping. But I’ve spent 3 hours on the phone in my personal time. I’ve already spent over $1000 on this phone. You have to see how that’s unacceptable on many levels. When will they let us know what’s going on? All I do know is that my phone is not working. I’ll preempt those that will tell me to return it. As mentioned I wish I could but I stupidly sold my old phone. That’s on me. But this is on Apple to address and make right for their customers. I’ve been patient but this is not getting any better. I know this takes time, but I wish Apple would say something to those impacted.

 

[1144557]

I see both sides. Trying to be diplomatic about the whole thing. Of course those of us with issues want to do what we can to help get the problems addressed. Yes I’ve installed the profiles and sent numerous logs and sysdiagnose files. I’ve spent over 3 hours on the phone with the support representative.

However on the flip side when is enough enough? Yes I’m helping. But I’ve spent 3 hours on the phone in my personal time. I’ve already spent over $1000 on this phone. You have to see how that’s unacceptable on many levels. When will they let us know what’s going on? All I do know is that my phone is not working. I’ll preempt those that will tell me to return it. As mentioned I wish I could but I stupidly sold my old phone. That’s on me. But this is on Apple to address and make right for their customers. I’ve been patient but this is not getting any better. I know this takes time, but I wish Apple would say something to those impacted.

Im not implying everyone MUST help Apple or they dont deserve to own the phone; how dare they! Rather if everyone takes a piss poor attitude about it, it will only make the process that much longer. Without data how does one find the issue to even begin solving it? That is step 1 of troubleshooting, get data and figure out the problem.

It's annoying but it could be worse. Should it have happened, no. Does crap happen? Yes, EVERY phone launch out there.

The phone could be catching fire in your pocket, or physically breaking, etc. This whole issue is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme.

It takes time to figure out what's going on with 4 major carriers and 2 dozen plus cellular bands what is going on (which carrier/bands is the issue in- some, all); more than just a few days. Then fix it. It's simply reality. That's why the charging bug is already fixed in 12.1 beta 2 after basically a week of hearing about it (and very likely shortly in a public release too); it was something 100 times more simple in comparison.

 

[PBz]

Im not implying everyone MUST help Apple or they dont deserve to own the phone; how dare they! Rather if everyone takes a piss poor attitude about it, it will only make the process that much longer. Without data how does one find the issue to even begin solving it? That is step 1 of troubleshooting, get data and figure out the problem.

It's annoying but it could be worse. The phone could be catching fire in your pocket, or physically breaking, etc. This whole issue is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme.

Hours of testing over months for Apple when they will tell you nothing but try this test or that test over & over.. while denying a return is not cool. I’m making the comments I’ve made because I’ve been there.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Well I feel like a moron now and this explains a lot. I just discovered that AT&T unilaterally switched me to a lower tier plan capped at 3mbps some time in late September (it appears on 9/21) without my authorization and without notifying me after “ending” the completely unlimited uncapped unthrottled plan I’d continually used for over a decade from my Cingular days.

Of course, they now won’t switch me back to a true unlimited plan without me paying significantly more, so I’ll have to get the phone unlocked and switch to Verizon or T-Mobile (never going back to AT&T after this), but I’m hopeful that it will work fine after that.

Sorry for being an idiot and sending the investigation off on a tangent. Didn’t even think to check my AT&T account for changes since I’d been on the same true unlimited plan for over 10 years.

Stinks that ATT&T did that to you. Good thing is it wasn't something wrong with the phone.

 

[PBz]

Well I feel like a moron now and this explains a lot. I just discovered that AT&T unilaterally switched me to a lower tier plan capped at 3mbps some time in late September (it appears on 9/21) without my authorization and without notifying me after “ending” the completely unlimited uncapped unthrottled plan I’d continually used for over a decade from my Cingular days.

Of course, they now won’t switch me back to a true unlimited plan without me paying significantly more, so I’ll have to get the phone unlocked and switch to Verizon or T-Mobile (never going back to AT&T after this), but I’m hopeful that it will work fine after that.

Sorry for being an idiot and sending the investigation off on a tangent. Didn’t even think to check my AT&T account for changes since I’d been on the same true unlimited plan for over 10 years.

Don’t sweat it. You were trying to help. Good variable removed as your case was really weird with the 3.

 

[Raudy5]

I was thinking it had something to do with the steel frame and chassis also. Is the iPhone the only phone to use a steel frame/chassis?
I know a lot are aluminum.

Absolutely, but it's a case of complete sink or swim in terms of placement, thickness etc. From an article I was Reading the pros and cons of stainless steel as a mobile device material:

(Listed under one of the "CONS" of steel)

• RF transmission. This means your LTE, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth signals. Radio frequencies of the safe variety have a tough time transmitting through dense material. This can mean your phone needs to have antenna lines or glass cutouts for the antennas.

Basically, any obstacle is bad for an antenna, metal is bad because conductors soak up and block the signal. Great if it's attached to your antenna, not so great if it's not. Especially bad for your incoming signal.

It's interesting that the X uses steel. I think the Qualcom Intel thing was an intelligent place to look, but the fact they have a side by side test that proved they are roughly equal and why they likely aren't the culprit was satisfied for me here. -here's the quote from the link:

"The two 2017 iPhone X variants -- with Qualcomm base-band and with Intel base-band -- perform almost identically in RF testing submitted in their FCC authorization filings."

Same antenna, difference intel and qualcom, identical lab tests.

Also, the antenna (RF) performance of the X moderately was worse than the 8 series, but the hardware was basically the same on the antenna side of things.

So, maybe Apple figured since the RF performance of the antenna with steel was only incrementally worse, they didn't have to test the new chassis to see if the new 4x4mimo band addition to the antenna would be any different, but from what I gather, you can be surprised how adding something like that under enclosed conditions performs much worse or even much better. A lot to do with positioning etc.

So maybe it's a steel frame+ the 4x4mimo+ likely some software fine tuning, I don;t know how 4x4mimo works, but I don;t think they can tweak individual power to individual antenna bands, that would be the ideal software fix. I think they can only raise the overall power, which is maxed out already to the xs and xs max. Also stated in the article I linked.

All I'm saying is that not testing the new antenna live in the new chassis when you believe you've basically already done that is a believable scenario.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

All I'm saying is that not testing the new antenna live in the new chassis when you believe you've basically already done that is a believable scenario.

I find that extremely unbelievable.

 

[Wags]

Should be getting more than 1 bar and getting this as result