Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[996085]

EDIT:

That being said. And this is serious if you don't have an absolute reason to put this machine to work for at least 50% of it's capability, then this Computer is A WASTE. I mean to me, I look the model I want and it's $6,099, which I would love to get. But I don't have an immediate workload for that monster, so that would be such a waste, compared to having a SECURE MacBook/MacMini Future, consisting of 2 MacBook Pro 15" purchased at the proper moment every 5 years (black friday-ish etc) for $1799, and then 2 MacMini's for $1099 each, purchased right when they came out, those machines would be a complete eco system containment center for 10 years also) So yeah if you don't have anything but TOY USAGE, it's a waste. But a Marvel of a computer!

With the cMP one could buy a lesser configuration and then upgrade it as their needs grow. With the nMP, and most of Apples computer lineup, one has to guestimate their future requirements and buy a system capable of meeting those needs as they won't have the option to grow into them.

BTW, I don't consider the Mac Pro to be a monster. IMO it's a middle of the line workstation easily out classed by something like a Z640 or Z840 system. By Macintosh standards it's a monster. By market standards it's so-so.

 

[AidenShaw]

In my experience, for the CPU, if real work is really being done on a machine, the company will just max it out at the time of purchase negating the upgrade path on the CPU. RAM, GPUs and hard drives though, I've seen those upgraded plenty.

In other words, they upgraded before the purchase. See how useful an upgradeable system can be!

IME the CPU is the least likely upgraded component of a system. I brought it up merely to show an example where I performed an upgrade for a small business. Video adapters, hard disks, memory, various expansion cards (too numerous to list individually) are the common parts which are upgraded.

I used to do it by plan for my DIY systems.

I'd buy the latest motherboard/chipset - and then a midrange CPU because the prices of the top CPUs were not competitive.

I'd then wait for the CPU to get near EOL (or just after) and get the fastest for a bargain price.

 

[996085]

So, my only choice is to leave my loved OSX which hurt me. I am a little bit afraid of what is coming to me with W10. We will see. I still hope Apple will come with an update for the Mac Pro and surprises us. A part of me knows its wishful thinking. There will be no machine in between the iMac and MacPro because it would hurt the sales for the iMacs. And there will be no update to the Mac Pro like i want to.

So for me personally, this nMP is a failure and is Apple losing me as customer. If i go to W10, I will change my local eco system too (i think)

Windows is, and has been, a solid platform. It's easily as reliable, stable, and "just works" like OS X. The key to making it a successful transition is to not think of doing things in a Mac way. This is the same advice I gave to Windows users switching to a Mac back in the 90's.

 

[merlinmage]

The only disadvantage on Windows is the lack of official ProRes encoding and the AVFoundation. Every other aspect is superior on the Windows Platform performance or workflow wise (atleast for me, so feel free to critisize that).

 

[rezwits]

I think, between the iMac and MacPro is a gab which need a system in between

This is so true. From MacMini/iMac -> to -> Mac Pro, there's a huge gap, which is sad because they should make a workshop mac for "parts" enthusiasts...

Oh and a...

On what planet do you live where a decade old computer will retain 50% of its value, not to mention still be a viable computer for its original purpose at that point in its lifecycle?

R2-D2 was a system/droid that has been around for over 60 years if not more! hehe

No but seriously, do you see these chips getting any faster? I don't. There not getting faster, the computer world is based on buy more racks and compiling cores. Moore's Law is DEAD, it migrated to multiple cores. Look at the Mac Pro 2009/2010s the ones that were $3000 are going for $1000 still! on eBay 6 years later... times are changing. That was the point I was trying to make about fans breaking and stuff and the computer getting noisy. If this stays quiet and just endures and keeps working, it's 4K Home Theater Unit for Fun easily. I'll be buying a $4000 dollar one for $500 if you wanna sell it in 10 years, hit me up for SURE!

 

[tuxon86]

This is so true. From MacMini/iMac -> to -> Mac Pro, there's a huge gap, which is sad because they should make a workshop mac for "parts" enthusiasts...

Oh and a...



R2-D2 was a system/droid that has been around for over 60 years if not more! hehe

No but seriously, do you see these chips getting any faster? I don't. There not getting faster, the computer world is based on buy more racks and compiling cores. Moore's Law is DEAD, it migrated to multiple cores. Look at the Mac Pro 2009/2010s the ones that were $3000 are going for $1000 still! on eBay 6 years later... times are changing. That was the point I was trying to make about fans breaking and stuff and the computer getting noisy. If this stays quiet and just endures and keeps working, it's 4K Home Theater Unit for Fun easily. I'll be buying a $4000 dollar one for $500 if you wanna sell it in 10 years, hit me up for SURE!

The main reasons why the cMP goes for those price today on ebay are:

1- The nMP isn't considered viable for a lot of folk
2- The lack of competition in the computer able to run OSX officially.

If the nMP had been better designed as a workstation and not as a glorified fashion statement putting form over function, those cMP would sell for way less than that. Same thing if there was a pletora of company pumping out OSX enabled machine and competing on price.

 

[scott.n]

This is so true. From MacMini/iMac -> to -> Mac Pro, there's a huge gap, which is sad because they should make a workshop mac for "parts" enthusiasts...

I was thinking about this last night. What if the company went back to its roots and sold an empty ATX (or mATX) motherboard as part of either the Mac Developer Program or a new "Homebrew Developer Program" for hardware developers/enthusiasts? Call the product the Mac One in homage of the Apple I.

Development should be easy - just put a supported UEFI on a supplier's existing design. It would only need updated whenever a new socket came out.

Of course the idea is fantastical given Apple's direction, but it's fun to think about the possibilities.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I was thinking about this last night. What if the company went back to its roots and sold an empty ATX (or mATX) motherboard as part of either the Mac Developer Program or a new "Homebrew Developer Program" for hardware developers/enthusiasts? Call the product the Mac One in homage of the Apple I.

Development should be easy - just put a supported UEFI on a supplier's existing design. It would only need updated whenever a new socket came out.

Of course the idea is fantastical given Apple's direction, but it's fun to think about the possibilities.

and will need 3-6 base broads

Intel desktop

Intel High end desktop / workstation 1 socket board

Intel workstation / server 2 socket board

AMD desktop

AMD server / workstation 1 socket

AMD server / workstation 2 socket.

 

[merlinmage]

Except no one uses AMD CPUs.

 

[lowendlinux]

We'll see if AMD changes that in the coming year

 

[merlinmage]

I seriously doubt that. But maybe there is a chance that Apple will adopt AMD CPUs in their hardware, which would pretty much end my trust in the whole Mac platform.

 

[lowendlinux]

It might end your trust but that really changes nothing. AMD's got new a new socket and new architecture due next year.

 

[merlinmage]

Zen, yes. But no one knows the performance, so Zen may fail as the Faildozer.

 

[lowendlinux]

It might but there is zero reason to count it out before it arrives

 

[-hh]

I agree with that emphasized comment of yours. However it needs to be applied to the nMP advocates who keep telling us how no one ever upgrades their systems. As I said I have seen all manner of upgrades to a system having worked in small businesses (as small as four people) all the way up to Fortune 100 companies. There is an entire industry dedicated to the upgrade market yet, according to the nMP advocates, outside of a small handful of enthusiasts no one upgrades.

Because we're not all the same with identical IT needs ... and not with identical corporate structures ... we're going to all be different, both in what we do, but also in what we see as 'typical' around us.

Thus said, I'll point out in my years I've also seen periods where we've had extensive upgrades (mostly RAM & Storage) - - although I'll also point out that with the migration away from desktops to mobile (laptops), these incremental upgrades have subsided: the "big iron" has become more of a specialty niche (including now a $5M cluster) instead of being something that 75% of our engineering staff each needed to have in their personal PC.

But what I really wanted to point out wasn't this anecdotal observation, but a wider point: having the feature of incremental improvements (through upgradability) is a product element which will appeal to Independents and Small/Medium Businesses ... and in this regards, both the mobile trend and the reduced upgradability of the likes of the nMP is a self-imposed limitation ... and deliberate choice that Apple is making.

As such, the real question is more nuanced: with Apple functionally abandoning a known product attribute valued by this consumer segment ... just how is that consumer group going to respond?

Pragmatically, the only choices for them is to stay with Apple but pay more for less value - - or bail out of Apple and shift to Windows as being the better value.

 

[Arron Rouse]

So many posts in and some of the top uses for the Mac Pro aren't even mentioned.

Photoshop - the nMP is better than the cMP in every way for Photoshop. The users are mostly aesthetes so they probably prefer the trashcan. The nMP runs Photoshop faster and it supports 4k monitors out of the box.
InDesign - publishing has been one of the core market segments of professional Apple users from the days of the LaserWriter. For them, the nMP is also better in every way.
iOS Development - a core market segment and, again, for them the nMP is better in every way.
FCP - FCPX might have nearly killed the pro editor market for Apple but a new generation of indy film makers grew up using iMovie and so the FCPX user base is growing. Again, nMP wins.

I seriously doubt that Apple cares what anyone in this thread says as the sales are likely to be up rather than down. The trashcan shape caused enough headlines at launch that it probably attracted a lot more customers too; if Apple had just released an updated cMP, there'd have been no headlines at all.

While I love my cMP, there's little doubt in my mind that the nMP is a success for all but a small minority.

 

[Bytehoven]

While I love my cMP, there's little doubt in my mind that the nMP is a success for all but a small minority.

IMHO, it is similar sentiments @ Apple which gave us the nMP in the 1st place, rather than a better workstation design.

 

[996085]

Because we're not all the same with identical IT needs ... and not with identical corporate structures ... we're going to all be different, both in what we do, but also in what we see as 'typical' around us.

Thus said, I'll point out in my years I've also seen periods where we've had extensive upgrades (mostly RAM & Storage) - - although I'll also point out that with the migration away from desktops to mobile (laptops), these incremental upgrades have subsided: the "big iron" has become more of a specialty niche (including now a $5M cluster) instead of being something that 75% of our engineering staff each needed to have in their personal PC.

But what I really wanted to point out wasn't this anecdotal observation, but a wider point: having the feature of incremental improvements (through upgradability) is a product element which will appeal to Independents and Small/Medium Businesses ... and in this regards, both the mobile trend and the reduced upgradability of the likes of the nMP is a self-imposed limitation ... and deliberate choice that Apple is making.

As such, the real question is more nuanced: with Apple functionally abandoning a known product attribute valued by this consumer segment ... just how is that consumer group going to respond?

Pragmatically, the only choices for them is to stay with Apple but pay more for less value - - or bail out of Apple and shift to Windows as being the better value.

I know this. I understand this. Which is why I continue to be puzzled when people, such as yourself in this very post of yours, continue to act as if what you say is applicable to everyone.

 

[Roykor]

So many posts in and some of the top uses for the Mac Pro aren't even mentioned.

Photoshop - the nMP is better than the cMP in every way for Photoshop. The users are mostly aesthetes so they probably prefer the trashcan. The nMP runs Photoshop faster and it supports 4k monitors out of the box.
InDesign - publishing has been one of the core market segments of professional Apple users from the days of the LaserWriter. For them, the nMP is also better in every way.

Photoshop screams for fast clock speeds and tons of memory. The tipple point are 6 cores. So, sure, an expensive Xeon will do the job. But an i7 5820K clocked to 4ghz and 64gb DDR4 wil eat the nMP in Photoshop for breakfast. Sorry my friend, the nMP is for sure a powerhouse. But not for a lot of (cuda / nvidia optimized) Adobe tools. Plus, MacPro with an 6-core version at 3,5ghz and 64gb mem would cost 6089 euro. Like i mention before, a lot of us don't need xeons and ecc memory. The missing system is between the iMac and the MacPro

ps, Adobe and Apple are not the biggest friends. And if i am not wrong, the Windows based systems are their number one income. I also don't think Apple would care about these topics. They have their own vision about computing. Maybe i am thinking a bit to romantic about that. In the end its just a company which makes a lot of money.

 

[AidenShaw]

ha.. really? it's definitely a pun and has been used intentionally.. for proof of it's effectiveness as a pun, look no further than the first time you quoted me about it.

It's not a pun.

It's a malapropism.

You are the last person in the world who should be correcting other forum members on their grasp of the English language.

The last person.

 

[flat five]

It's not a pun.

It's a malapropism.

You are the last person in the world who should be correcting other forum members on their grasp of the English language.

The last person.

ha.. your foot is in your mouth aiden.. pull it out.

malapropism
the mistaken use of a word in place of a similar-sounding one, often with unintentionally amusing effect, as in, for example, “dance a flamingo” (instead of flamenco).

wrong word, solecism, misuse, misapplication, infelicity, Freudian slip, blunder; slip of the tongue, egg corn.

-------

pun
a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the fact that there are words that sound alike but have different meanings

play on words, wordplay, double entendre, innuendo, witticism, quip, bon mot.


.............
a malapropism is the accidental use of the wrong word..
my 5 yr old daughter would sing Up on the Housetop: "ho ho ho.. who let it go?" instead of "ho ho ho.. who wouldn't go"...
what she thought it said, and the way she sung it, is not the real lyric.. but her version turned out to be funny.
that's a malapropism

what i said was said on purpose.. not an accident. not a mistake.. and i use it often.. for example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...mac-pro-in-2015.1840458/page-15#post-21061254
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/is-the-new-mac-pro-a-failure.1939541/page-26#post-22354483

 

[Bytehoven]

It's not a pun.

It's a malapropism.

I see what you did their.

 

[flat five]

I see what you did their.

i don't.
care to fill in the rest of the class?

i suppose 'their' has something to do with whatever you're thinking but i'm still not seeing it

 

[AidenShaw]

. Even

ha.. your foot is in your mouth aiden.. pull it out.

malapropism
the mistaken use of a word in place of a similar-sounding one, often with unintentionally amusing effect, as in, for example, “dance a flamingo” (instead of flamenco).

wrong word, solecism, misuse, misapplication, infelicity, Freudian slip, blunder; slip of the tongue, egg corn.

-------

pun
a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the fact that there are words that sound alike but have different meanings

play on words, wordplay, double entendre, innuendo, witticism, quip, bon mot.


.............
a malapropism is the accidental use of the wrong word..
my 5 yr old daughter would sing Up on the Housetop: "ho ho ho.. who let it go?" instead of "ho ho ho.. who wouldn't go"...
what she thought it said, and the way she sung it, is not the real lyric.. but her version turned out to be funny.
that's a malapropism

what i said was said on purpose.. not an accident. not a mistake.. and i use it often.. for example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...mac-pro-in-2015.1840458/page-15#post-21061254
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/is-the-new-mac-pro-a-failure.1939541/page-26#post-22354483

Thank you for supporting my point so succinctly. Bravo! You saved me a few searches to find the citations that destroy your argument!

"Goggle" for "Google" is the mistaken use of a word for a similarly-sounding one. (Note that mistakes can be deliberate.)

It is not word-play on multiple meanings of either "goggle" or "google".

(Notice how your definitions use "similar" and "alike". "Goggle" and "google" are similar, not alike. Look down - you pointed the gun downwards and blew off your own feet.)

F5 - in a battle of words, you are unarmed.

ps: just got the most wonderful ad from MacRumours - F5, I think that they're on to you. Even MacRumours' ad slingers think that you're a bit off.

 

[flat five]

It is not word-play on multiple meanings of either "goggle" or "google".

(Notice how your definitions use "similar" and "alike". "Goggle" and "google" are similar, not alike. Look down - you pointed the gun downwards and blew off your own feet.)

they're spelled alike.. they're even pronounced alike.

so when you say to me:
"Those glasses must make it really easy to goggle things...."

you're using the word 'goggle' as 'find' or 'search for' things.. the same freaking reasons, albeit slightly different context, that you use google for.

like- you're completely getting the stupid joke right off the bat.. and denying yourself of it in order to try to make me look like a half-wit who can't read or write or understand english..
allthewhile, making a complete asp out of yourself.


=====
edit-
and hey.. i pre_typed my response to your next comment:
i don't know if i'm more embarrassed for you or- more embarrassed at myself for engaging with you over this.. i guess thnx for making the joke a lot more funny but i'm finished talking about it.