I have seen no one dismiss Thunderbolt as a solid technology. What people are saying is Thunderbolt does provide the performance of PCIe slots. Perhaps if Thunderbolt offered the same level of performance as a 16x PCIe slot the issue would be rendered moot. But until then Thunderbolt isn't an equivalent, at least performance wise, replacement for PCIe.
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Is the new Mac Pro a failure?
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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I was going to give an example of display output connectors: VGA, DVI-I, DVI-D, DVI-A (and dual/single out of the first two), Displayport, mini-displayport, hdmi, mini-hdmi, micro-hdmi and so on.
But your example was better as it is the same protocol
Its still a good example. In some ways I can see its needed for size requirements or a connector not compatible with another standard perhaps.
That is one of Apples ideas, about this
One more thing. No ARM hardware is able to run VR currently. For the exact reason Netkas said: latency.
The plug in the computer didn't change from USB 1.1 to 3.1. While TB 1-2 to 3 require a new connector.
I would love to see the 'one connector to rule them all' but fear that will never come. It will be interesting as some of the new 5G and newer wireless protocols take shape, if it will kill off a few of our plug in requirements.
The other thing is that many devices recognize you might not have every possible output type port/cable/adapter and so they give you the option. How hard is it to find a monitor with HDMI, DP and DVI? If you get an external disk, they usually come with the proper cabling and as you say the connector on the computer's end is always the same.
Differing video output and USB connectors is not at all the same problem as TB to ethernet/eSATA/anything else.
A single box dies and it takes out not just my work but my whole company? No thanks. Assuming you discount the risk involved when you open the case of a Mac, statistically, multiple boxes increase the risk of failure. But they dramatically reduce the cost of recovery. And opening the case of a Mac dramatically increases the risk of failure. Even for a one-man-band I think multi-box has advantages when it comes time to upgrade (more about that below).
We're both cheesed-off about that. Give me 6x 20GBe ports over 6x 20GBps Thunderbolt ports any day. I even wrote an article about it when Thunderbolt first came out. To my mind it'll be awesome when my monitor is just another network device. Add PoE into the mix and I'm in heaven.
Was, it has gone down a lot now. It's still more expensive but you only really need it for SSD/SAS/RAID.
AFAIK, Apple was working on PCIe storage before the M.2 spec was available. It'd be good if they switched to using actual M.2 at the very least. Not sure about having an open slot. The trouble is that you need to wear a static strap when handling opening the nMP (or the cMP for that matter) and you can bet that a lot of numpties would fry theirs.
Sorry, had upgrade paths on my mind. It's £120 for a RAID 5 eSATA enclosure that also has USB3. Plug it into your cMP along with a USB3 or eSATA card if you're sane; build the RAID; upgrade in seconds to nMP (or any other type of machine) at your leisure.
Yup, Intel and Apple have a lot to answer for there. We could be on 20GBe by now.
Yeah but Apple has upgraded the SSD in the nMP before and Toshiba has just released an NVMe controller for SSD (as in it sits on the M.2 stick) that is giving 2.5GBps. How long before nMP has a firm lead again?
For me, that would be Ethernet without the RJ45 and with Magsafe. Ethernet currently goes to 100Gbps and 400Gbps is expected in 2017!
True, the nMP is much more expensive than the cMP was
However it was already included in the price of the cMP. What's interesting about the nMP is Apple removed a lot of standard things from it yet didn't reduce the cost (though feel free to correct this as it's been a long time since I looked at the price of a new CMP). IOW the nMP is about getting less and paying the same.
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How did this change with the nMP? If the nMP dies how are you any less disadvantaged than you were with the cMP?
I paid £1800 for my cMP 2009 which was £200 off IIRC. So you're right about the cMP being cheaper.
It didn't. It changed by switching to external storage. If my cMP dies, I could drop another machine in its place and nobody else in the company has to suffer anything more than me going all wide-eyed about finally getting an excuse to buy a new Mac
To my knowledge the cMP can use external storage too. Likewise I do not see a problem moving four internal disks to a new system as particularly burdensome either.It didn't. It changed by switching to external storage. If my cMP dies, I could drop another machine in its place and nobody else in the company has to suffer anything more than me going all wide-eyed about finally getting an excuse to buy a new Mac
Actually USB 3 did change (even though it kept the physical form so USB1.1/2.0 devices could be connected to it, but it does have more pins inside that USB1.1 and 2.0 does not.)
The big problem with moving disks to a new system is that the data on the RAID will only go with it if the new machine has exactly the same RAID controller.
Wouldn't you be replacing like for like? Even if not one could always carry the RAID controller to the new system.
Yes, the cMP was quite a bit cheaper
In SEK the cMP started at ~22000SEK (~$2600 in todays conversion rate), the nMP starts at approx 32000SEK (~$3750)
depends on if you're simply talking about the various components inside the machine or the whole of the machine itself..
cmp is simple sheet metal construction.. nmp is using manufacturing processes we've never seen in computer construction and to tolerances typically reserved for the aerospace or medical device industries.
this writer at this link:
http://atomicdelights.com/blog/how-apple-makes-the-mac-pro
gives a little more of a breakdown of what we see in this video:
just a guess but when you bought a cmp, the housing (minus any components etc) probably cost you less than $500..
nmp is probably costing nearer $1500..
if the value you find when purchasing a computer is simply limited to the actual components included and you find little to no value in the construction of the entire machine then yeah, you're definitely going to feel ripped-off if buying a nmp..
they could of put the same components from nmp ,and more of them, into a cmp box for a cheaper cost than the same components along with nmp housing/core..
further still, those same components could go into a plastic or cheaper sheet metal box (ie- certain PCs) for an even cheaper cost than cmp.
If my 2009 cMP dies, I'm definitely not getting another one even if I do love it to bits! It can't even do 4K properly!
Go for it. Apple advertises the nMP for use in video editing, 3D modelling, animation, photography, design & layout, audio and OpenCL for science. Name one of those where the nMP fails to function.
That doesnt mean it's not form over function. Spending $1million on a jewel encrusted case and increasing the price while still doing the same thing is form over function.
Also, more substantively, new media work like augmented reality. Not happening on the new mac pro.
Oh, you are a freelancer that does a lot of 4K video production work and you want a fast SSD like this, not happening either: http://barefeats.com/hard210.html
This kind of topic has been discussed before and it never seems to add up. Other than the points already brought up (a cMP form factor could use external storage too), here are a few more:
A) Don't you have backups? No single failure should ever take out your whole company. And recreating RAIDs from back up, if it has to even come to that, is often just an overnight job (at least in the data ranges I have, which are about 6-8TBs).
B) External boxes break too. You can't just pin all the failure risk on the computer and claim "if my computer with all my data in it goes down, so does my company". Well if you have all your data in one external box and THAT goes down, so does your company.
No form factor is going to be immune from poor computational-setup decision making.
if that's how you see it then hey, that's how you see it..
like i said
"if the value you find when purchasing a computer is simply limited to the actual components included and you find little to no value in the construction of the entire machine then yeah, you're definitely going to feel ripped-off if buying a nmp."
as far as i can gather, there is nothing i can do with my cmp that i can't with a nmp.. i see zero loss of functionality and in fact, i see improved functionality in the updated model.
if you don't then that's cool too.. don't buy one.
i certainly don't expect everyone to like the thing.. i don't think anybody expects that tbh.. it would be strange if nobody did not like the thing.
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I look forward to seeing all your oculus/augmented reality media work...
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Oculus won't be working on the nMP. #60
It will/does work on the cMP. So that's an entire genre of professional media work that the nMP wont be doing.
I wonder if these guys at Pixar dusted off their old cMPs or just ditched the nMPs for PCs to do their work:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-oculus-rift-virtual-reality-movie-henry.html
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