iPad Pro John Gruber’s iPad Pro review: A Lexus instead of a Toyota

[Unregistered 4U]

I actually enjoyed his review ... I think he's just tired of saying the same thing over and over again. A fresh take....
Although if Apple intends on marketing it as a luxury product they should add some accessories that are luxurious...

I mean… the screen… which is literally not available on ANY other product at this time… I’d consider that luxurious.

Come to think of it, I never googled if anyone ever did a miniLED screen like Apple. They’re moving to the next step and miniLED isn’t even mainstream yet

 

[Rogifan]

Then read again. His argument is by virtue of the tech inside Apple could make the Pro thinner, and that was the luxury goal, not to mention how is thinner and lighter not about the look and feel? Also the dual layer OLED screen requires the GPU of the M4, and that too is a luxury. He very much admits the software experience is similar, but the tech gives it the ability to achieve these luxury goals. The tech, in his opinion, is not to just enable faster tools (though undeniably the GPU will produce superior results for some Apps and games).

His argument is relatively straight forward, stop judging the iPad as a limited Mac. after all, don't judge Macs as limited iPads (but try to hold one as easily and touch the screen). Judge an iPad as a screen you can hold in your hand and interact with directly by touch. If you want different features that the iPad doesn't support as well, use a difference device.

Regarding camp A and B I’d say there is a camp A that wants a touch screen Mac, knows they won’t get it so instead argues macOS should come to iPad Pro. And then there’s camp B who love the iPad and would love for the iPad Pro to be their primary computing device and they just want Apple to make iPadOS better. Federico Viticci even said the only reason he’s said just allow it to boot into macOS is because Apple doesn't seem to want to add improvements to iPadOS. That’s not his first choice. Even forgetting the hardware, since Apple forked iOS into iPadOS then make the fork worthwhile. And if they can’t improve iPadOS for pro/power users without degrading it for casual users then keep the base iPad and mini running iOS and market them as everything you love about iPhone just on a bigger screen.

 

[Rogifan]

This. This precisely. Your mom, that is, the folks that love iPadOS don’t know the first thing about the software running it, they touch things, things happen, and the word “filesystem” never even drifts through the folds of their brains while they’re doing it.

And, if you say “you can’t edit text on it”, you’ll likely confuse them greatly… or at least lead them to believe what they’re doing in Notes must not be text editing and they should see if they can buy a text editing app from the App Store.

My mom loves her iPad. She has no clue what iOS or iPadOS are.

 

[G5isAlive]

Regarding camp A and B I’d say there is a camp A that wants a touch screen Mac, knows they won’t get it so instead argues macOS should come to iPad Pro. And then there’s camp B who love the iPad and would love for the iPad Pro to be their primary computing device and they just want Apple to make iPadOS better. Federico Viticci even said the only reason he’s said just allow it to boot into macOS is because Apple doesn't seem to want to add improvements to iPadOS. That’s not his first choice. Even forgetting the hardware, since Apple forked iOS into iPadOS then make the fork worthwhile. And if they can’t improve iPadOS for pro/power users without degrading it for casual users then keep the base iPad and mini running iOS and market them as everything you love about iPhone just on a bigger screen.

And there are car owners who wish their car could fly, or go across a lake (without a bridge) and there were (are?) even companies that tried to give those things to those people but they were always compromises and expensive as heck. So most people accept their cars don't fly or go acrosss water, and if they want those things (and can afford them) they buy planes and boats.

The fact that some people want their iPads to be Macs, or their Macs to be iPads, and they want it for free (a lot of people always want it for cheap here), doesn't mean Apple has to accommodate them. And you keep bringing up marketing as if it means something.

You can say an iPad is just a bigger iPhone, but to me it's more and I have no problem that Apple designs operating systems specific to both. why does that bother you so much?

I don't know, and neither does anyone here, why Apple doesn't accommodate those that want to dock their iPads and have Mac OS available to them. They 'apple is evil' crowd will say its evil apple forcing you to buy two devices, but I do believe Apple always has the user in mind and they do not sacrifice quality of an experience for a gimmick. And Apple engineers are smart. So I believe the MacOS experience is compromised when running on existing iPads. I would not be surprised to learn it's a thermal issue. Macs run hot, even an Air, but the heat is separated from the screen by at least a keyboard and air. I don't know what the impact on a screen's life would be having the thermal heat pressed right to it. My guess is OLED would not do well with that. Or perhaps there is another technical aspect. But the fact remains is Apple has a history of improving devices even if it means the cannibalize another product line, the iPhone ate the iPod for example. The MacBooks have won over their desktops. Given how many more iPads that they sell, my guess is if they could make it a Mac too, they would. If nothing else it would dive more screen sales.

But I have experience in manufacturing and product design and I know what a user often this is easy, just isn't.

 

[G5isAlive]

This. This precisely. Your mom, that is, the folks that love iPadOS don’t know the first thing about the software running it, they touch things, things happen, and the word “filesystem” never even drifts through the folds of their brains while they’re doing it.

My parents both worked for DEC as some point (for those that don't know their history DEC at one point was a very large computer manufacturer), and were very used to working with computers. Both loved their iPads for the simplicity. Just saying iPads are not just for those not technically inclined (which I know is not your point sorry, but don't want to overload the OP by replying just to him/her).

Likewise I enjoy my iPad for what it is designed to be, not what I wish it would be. I have no problem accepting a world where I have four devices instead of one for four different purposes, a phone, a tablet, a spatial computer, and an old fashioned keyboard computer. There will come a day when we only have one central device that communicates to different peripherals as needed, but that day isn't here and I dont waste time complaining about it. I enjoy the devices for what they are. And I typically like the 'niceness' the top of the line gives me, regardless of its name.

 

[Rogifan]

A slightly different take from MG Siegler.

These Are Not Two Separate Devices...

Apple leaves the door slightly ajar for an iPad running macOS...

spyglass.org

 

[Rogifan]

And there are car owners who wish their car could fly, or go across a lake (without a bridge) and there were (are?) even companies that tried to give those things to those people but they were always compromises and expensive as heck. So most people accept their cars don't fly or go acrosss water, and if they want those things (and can afford them) they buy planes and boats.

The fact that some people want their iPads to be Macs, or their Macs to be iPads, and they want it for free (a lot of people always want it for cheap here), doesn't mean Apple has to accommodate them. And you keep bringing up marketing as if it means something.

You can say an iPad is just a bigger iPhone, but to me it's more and I have no problem that Apple designs operating systems specific to both. why does that bother you so much?

I don't know, and neither does anyone here, why Apple doesn't accommodate those that want to dock their iPads and have Mac OS available to them. They 'apple is evil' crowd will say its evil apple forcing you to buy two devices, but I do believe Apple always has the user in mind and they do not sacrifice quality of an experience for a gimmick. And Apple engineers are smart. So I believe the MacOS experience is compromised when running on existing iPads. I would not be surprised to learn it's a thermal issue. Macs run hot, even an Air, but the heat is separated from the screen by at least a keyboard and air. I don't know what the impact on a screen's life would be having the thermal heat pressed right to it. My guess is OLED would not do well with that. Or perhaps there is another technical aspect. But the fact remains is Apple has a history of improving devices even if it means the cannibalize another product line, the iPhone ate the iPod for example. The MacBooks have won over their desktops. Given how many more iPads that they sell, my guess is if they could make it a Mac too, they would. If nothing else it would dive more screen sales.

But I have experience in manufacturing and product design and I know what a user often this is easy, just isn't.

I don’t know the feasibility of macOS running on an iPad Pro when it’s docked to a keyboard. Maybe it’s an awful experience and the work to make it not awful isn’t worth it. But I’m not sure I would call it a gimmick. And for some the argument might be it’s a way of providing more to power users without over complicating the iPad everyone knows and loves. Mark Gurman still claims Apple has touchscreen Macs running in a lab somewhere. Maybe one day they’ll announce one.

 

[daanodinot]

I kind of enjoy a contrary take. The main problem with the piece, however, is the assumption that there is no way that iPadOS can fundamentally improve while maintaining the iPad paradigm that users know and love. Yes, the “lightness”. I think that shows a lack of imagination.

 

[the future]

A slightly different take from MG Siegler.

These Are Not Two Separate Devices...

Apple leaves the door slightly ajar for an iPad running macOS...

spyglass.org

It‘s different than Gruber but exactly the same as all the other pro-user takes …

the iPad Pro can be and should be the ultimate power user device. Come on, Apple.

Toaster-fridge, anyone?

 

[ZombiePete]

I kind of enjoy a contrary take. The main problem with the piece, however, is the assumption that there is no way that iPadOS can fundamentally improve while maintaining the iPad paradigm that users know and love. Yes, the “lightness”. I think that shows a lack of imagination.

It’s also one of those positions that people will take and then have to abandon in a year or two when Apple does shift gears and make the changes that people were saying they didn’t need to or shouldn’t. Personal example: I defended Apple opting not to make big, Galaxy-esque iPhones because the iPhone was perfectly sized for one-handed use. When they did eventually release a big iPhone I had to eat my words because, guess what, I liked having a bigger phone it turns out.

I like iPadOS a lot and wouldn’t want to see it abandon its roots, but there’s plenty of room for continued improvement, especially in the “pro” space, and I am open to the journey either way Apple wants to go.

 

[trusso]

You couldn’t pay me to read one of his articles.

I always enjoy laughing at how much he drinks the Cupertino kool aid.

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

And you know something is happening
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

(Bob Dylan lyrics, for the uninitiated.)

 

[the future]

Steven Sinofsky is in-line with Gruber‘s take, btw: Link

Dual-boot iPad would be nuts​

 

[pin87a]

Apple has been steadfast in their desire to move away from 1990s desktop computing paradigms and build devices better suited to what people use them for now. They have been VERY successful doing this with the iPhone. A substantial amount of people use the iPhone as their only "computing" device and would like the same kind of experience on the iPad.

A platform that is secure by default and which has "guardrails" as Gruber put it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Using MacOS on the iPad would be a lazy, backwards move that would be equivalent to "giving up." Apple needs to do better with iPadOS. App developers need to do better with iPadOS. Until they do there will be a place for both device types.

 

[fuchsdh]

The crux of his review is iPad Pro is just meant to be a nicer, or deluxe iPad. I don’t get the second paragraph though. Most people who use iPads probably don’t have a clue about the operating system. To them the iPad is just a big iPhone. The ones who do care are the ones saying iPadOS needs to get better. But they’re not arguing for it to get worse for everyone else. It’s possible to make improvements to iPadOS for pro users that doesn’t degrade the experience for casual users.

Also, go back and listen to some of Gruber’s podcasts when ‘pro’ iPhones were rumored. His argument then was Apple should go all the way in making them devices for professionals. Now he’s saying ‘pro’ iPads are meant to be like a ceramic Apple Watch and that’s totally fine. Of course it’s totally fine for him because his main computer will always be a Mac and he can afford to own an Mac and an iPad Pro if he chooses.

The M4 iPad Pros

A “pro” device that goes pro by getting thinner and lighter, not heavier and thicker, is not a non sequitur.

daringfireball.net

View attachment 2378340

Your point ultimately is?

Mac pundits are allowed to have different priorities, concerns, or attitudes about different products.

I think the attitude of treating the iPad Pro as a Lexus instead of a Toyota is an apt one because that's acceptance of the status quo and what Apple has been doing with the iPad—that is, incremental improvements that do not materially make it substantially better for professional use cases, alongside a failure to reimagine or retool stuff that was half-baked years ago (multitasking remains wacky) or low-hanging fruit that hasn't been touched (the freakin' Calculator application.)

But this also ties into the recurring issue people seem to have with Apple. To Apple, "Pro" means nothing more than high-end. That the high-end jives with professional needs and wants is sort of besides the point half the time versus boosting ASP.

 

[turbineseaplane]

John Gruber’s blog posts never make quite sense to me.

Once you realize what they actually are (Apple PR in disguise), they all make more sense

 

[fuchsdh]

Jim used to be as in the bag for Apple as Gruber..
Now that he's retired, look at where he's at!


View attachment 2378417

(kudos to him for keeping it real! - from this morning)

What's more likely—he was hiding his true feelings until he quit the business, or he quit the business because his feelings were changing?

If I ended up hating the experience of using Apple products, I'd definitely stop talking about it all the time (although judging by this forum that's apparently a minority view.)

(I'd be curious what his issues with CarPlay are, though. "CarPlay sucks" is not a sentiment I hear that often.)

 

[turbineseaplane]

A platform that is secure by default and which has "guardrails"

The Mac has that just fine

The "Guardrails" on iOS/iPadOS aren't to help users, but rather help Apple and their control and bottom line.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What's more likely—he was hiding his true feelings until he quit the business, or he quit the business because his feelings were changing?

I have no idea

I just appreciate that now he's free to speak his mind without concerns about not being in the good graces of Cupertino and their hypersensitive narrative control apparatus

Think about it with Gruber.

We know we aren't getting what he might want to say (if there is anything critical) as he'd never want to jeopardize things like having top Apple execs do shows with him.

All we have to do here is look at incentives and risks ... and behavior makes sense

This is a life skill all should work on.
Watch what people do and think about why ... the data is all right there.

 

[the future]

We know we aren't getting what he might want to say (if there is anything critical) as he'd never want to jeopardize things like having top Apple execs do shows with him.

Gruber does say critical things all the time. You must not follow him closely (or at all).

All we have to do here is look at incentives and risks ... and behavior makes sense

This is a life skill all should work on.
Watch what people do and think about why ... the data is all right there.

Yeah, and many folks make money (clicks) by badmouthing Apple as well …

 

[turbineseaplane]

A slightly different take from MG Siegler.

These Are Not Two Separate Devices...

Apple leaves the door slightly ajar for an iPad running macOS...

spyglass.org

I'm with MG here:


"You want to sit back on the couch and watch something, or use a touch app? Load up iPadOS and have at it. Want to get some work done on that spreadsheet? Load up macOS and go to town. It's a power user thing, for sure. And the iPad Pro can be and should be the ultimate power user device. Come on, Apple."


I'd be an instant buyer for an iPad Pro that could "Do it all"
It would replace the Mac for me honestly

I know a lot of folks wouldn't like this, but I'd argue it should be an "iPad Pro thing only" to mitigate this
Folks who want "just iPads" could get iPad/iPad Mini/iPad Air

 

[roar08]

You've just learned why I stopped listening to him years and years ago now

He's really just running PR in defense of Apple and it's covered with a thin veneer of "informed and objective takes" (largely not true)

He always has been

I give him credit -- he's made an entire career of pontificating on Apple from his guest bedroom (sorry, office)

If one enjoys his nonsense and long winded talk, by all means, indulge - just know what you're getting.

Totally agree. I read his blog for a time years ago, but at some point — in my opinion — something shifted and I just couldn't read/stand him anymore. I do like watching his post-WWDC interviews w/ Craig, Jos, and others ... despite Gruber.

 

[iPadified]

https://9to5mac.com/2024/05/15/as-m...-record-straight-tablets-suck-and-ipads-dont/


‘Apple also points to the M4 is the building block needed to drive the new iPad Pro’s tandem OLED display, another first for any Apple product. Joz describes the process for incorporating the new display controller into Apple silicon:”

“Our chip team was able to build that controller into the road map,” explains Joswiak. “And the place they could put it was the M4.”

‘Finally, the piece includes some insight into AI, the Mac, and what Apple thinks makes this M4 iPad worthy of Pro. From Joz:

“The fact is that the majority of Mac customers have an iPad, and they use them both,” he says. “And a large proportion of iPad customers have a Mac, or even some of them have [Windows] PCs. You use the tool that makes the most sense for you at that time. They’re two different tools.”

‘On the subject of Pro-ness, Ternus has this to say:

But Ternus also pushes back on the notion that the iPad Pro is less than “pro”—a term, he says, that isn’t defined by the Mac.
“There’s a funny perception thing,” he says. “Maybe it’s Mac people with their notion of what professional is. You saw what the Procreate team has done with Apple Pencil Pro. There is no more professional drawing application in the world than Procreate—I mean, they’re the lifeblood of artists.”

 

[turbineseaplane]

“The fact is that the majority of Mac customers have an iPad, and they use them both,” he says."

They have both because they have to
We don't know what they'd do if one device could cover both needs

Apple wants to sell two things to you instead of one
It's about money...nothing else

 

[iPadified]

How many of these threads do we need? Moderator collect them into one thread and label it “I am sad the iPad Pro is not for me”.

 

[iPadified]

“The fact is that the majority of Mac customers have an iPad, and they use them both,” he says."

They have both because they have to
We don't know what they'd do if one device could cover both needs

Apple wants to sell two things to you instead of one
It's about money...nothing else

No, a professional chooses the right tool for the job. Computers are not tied to desks work or indirect input anymore which suits a range of professions. A carpenter will always need a hammer and a screwdriver in the toolbox.