Just ordered the BIG ONE. Please, no image persistence issues!

[flyinmac]

As stated in my prior post, I observed that stressing the CPUs and therefore causing the machine to heat up caused instant permanent etching into the screen on my prior imac's.

So I believe heat is the major culprit. And the iMac's design is a recipe for failure in that regard.

If the screens were separate, or the iMac was larger with better airflow and distance between the screen and heat generating parts, the issue of image persistence and burn-in likely wouldn't exist.

I would speculate that environment, usage, and the heat generated by both, are likely the determining factors in who experiences the problem.

 

[blufrog]

I've yet to see this, and my iMac is now just over a year old.

I do stuff where things are static on screen for a long time, and yet to notice ghosting.

Generally, certain types of display ARE prone to this. My TV even has an auto-off function if the picture doesn't change for 2 hours to prevent it! It does seem that it should not be permanent.

If you do get ghosting try showing an all-black display for a while (NOT off), then switch to white for a while, then black.

 

[accentaudio]

So I would like to take a moment and apologize to those in this thread. I am the first to admit when I am wrong, and apparently I was wrong. I had my iMac in for repair and they replaced the display. Low and behold, no image persistence. That is awesome! So there are panels that do not exhibit this behavior. That being said, I still think that it is sad that this issue still exists at all. I just don't think any of us spending this amount of money should have to cross our fingers when we get our new iMac. Image persistence shouldn't even be a thing at all with these iMac computers. Having 5 machines that did it is INDEED horrible luck, but I honestly feel it comes down to quality control and consistency. I feel the QC of Apple has slipped since Mr. Jobs passed. Just my opinion. I know there were issues under Steve, but it just felt that under his watch when an issue did arise that he jumped all over it and got is resolved once and for all. He didn't seem the type to tolerate lingering issues, even on a small scale. Anyway, I am sorry everyone. You all have pretty dang good luck it seems. Those of you that haven't experienced a display with image persistence ought to go out and buy some lottery tickets.

 

[btrach144]

So I would like to take a moment and apologize to those in this thread. I am the first to admit when I am wrong, and apparently I was wrong. I had my iMac in for repair and they replaced the display. Low and behold, no image persistence. That is awesome! So there are panels that do not exhibit this behavior. That being said, I still think that it is sad that this issue still exists at all. I just don't think any of us spending this amount of money should have to cross our fingers when we get our new iMac. Image persistence shouldn't even be a thing at all with these iMac computers. Having 5 machines that did it is INDEED horrible luck, but I honestly feel it comes down to quality control and consistency. I feel the QC of Apple has slipped since Mr. Jobs passed. Just my opinion. I know there were issues under Steve, but it just felt that under his watch when an issue did arise that he jumped all over it and got is resolved once and for all. He didn't seem the type to tolerate lingering issues, even on a small scale. Anyway, I am sorry everyone. You all have pretty dang good luck it seems. Those of you that haven't experienced a display with image persistence ought to go out and buy some lottery tickets.

LOL then you clearly weren't around for the yellow 27" 2560x1440 iMac/MDP Monitors that Apple sold while SJ was alive. The darn things literally turned yellow.

Guess you have a higher degree of OCD than the rest of us.

 

[accentaudio]

LOL then you clearly weren't around for the yellow 27" 2560x1440 iMac/MDP Monitors that Apple sold while SJ was alive. The darn things literally turned yellow.

Guess you have a higher degree of OCD than the rest of us.

Yes I have a VERY high degree of OCD. I am a perfectionist to a fault.

 

[iMcLovin]

So I would like to take a moment and apologize to those in this thread. I am the first to admit when I am wrong, and apparently I was wrong. I had my iMac in for repair and they replaced the display. Low and behold, no image persistence. That is awesome! So there are panels that do not exhibit this behavior. That being said, I still think that it is sad that this issue still exists at all. I just don't think any of us spending this amount of money should have to cross our fingers when we get our new iMac. Image persistence shouldn't even be a thing at all with these iMac computers. Having 5 machines that did it is INDEED horrible luck, but I honestly feel it comes down to quality control and consistency. I feel the QC of Apple has slipped since Mr. Jobs passed. Just my opinion. I know there were issues under Steve, but it just felt that under his watch when an issue did arise that he jumped all over it and got is resolved once and for all. He didn't seem the type to tolerate lingering issues, even on a small scale. Anyway, I am sorry everyone. You all have pretty dang good luck it seems. Those of you that haven't experienced a display with image persistence ought to go out and buy some lottery tickets.

Im glad to hear you finally got a proper screen.
It still doesnt change the fact that Apple computers are being more and more neglected though and the hardware options we can choose are outdated across the board. Im still seriously considering switching to PC on my next purchase....

 

[44267547]

So I would like to take a moment and apologize to those in this thread. I am the first to admit when I am wrong, and apparently I was wrong. I had my iMac in for repair and they replaced the display. Low and behold, no image persistence. That is awesome! So there are panels that do not exhibit this behavior. That being said, I still think that it is sad that this issue still exists at all. I just don't think any of us spending this amount of money should have to cross our fingers when we get our new iMac. Image persistence shouldn't even be a thing at all with these iMac computers. Having 5 machines that did it is INDEED horrible luck, but I honestly feel it comes down to quality control and consistency. I feel the QC of Apple has slipped since Mr. Jobs passed. Just my opinion. I know there were issues under Steve, but it just felt that under his watch when an issue did arise that he jumped all over it and got is resolved once and for all. He didn't seem the type to tolerate lingering issues, even on a small scale. Anyway, I am sorry everyone. You all have pretty dang good luck it seems. Those of you that haven't experienced a display with image persistence ought to go out and buy some lottery tickets.

Glad to hear your issue is resolved with the Mac. That's respectable and commendable to apologize for issues that were Clearly agitating you, and or you agreed/disagreed with other forum members. However, In respect, your posts were lacking decorum considering some of the comments you made, especially when your requesting feedback, when someone might have experienced the issues you may have had, may be unlikely to respond due to your demeanor, which ultimately; may have had the key you were seeking.

 

[maflynn]

I had my iMac in for repair and they replaced the display. Low and behold, no image persistence.

I'm happy you now have an iMac that you're now pleased with and you have the understanding that not all iMacs were suffering from that issue. While there many people who have this issue, there are others such as myself that do not.

So I would like to take a moment and apologize to those in this thread.

It takes a big man to apologize and kudos to you for doing the right thing.

 

[macmee]

Ok guys, updating this thread again to say that the repair place called and a third screen replacement has come in for my iMac.

They have the mac now and I was supposed to get it back a few hours ago, probably will be ready tomorrow as it's almost closing time here.

If this third display doesn't fix the issue then I think it's safe to conclude that every 27" retina iMac has image retention and that it has to do with how hot you run your iMac. My Mac runs 80-90C very often (as I have the i7, maxed out GPU and do a lot of compiling in xcode, and also run an external 4k display). Also, it's possible that lots of people have retention but haven't noticed yet!

The repair guy said to me that he isn't confident this new panel will fix the issue and that I should call apple care again and ask for a replacement imac. Don't know if they will go for that but if the third panel also has image retention I will go try.

pics from the original display showing retention - http://imgur.com/a/MOxzw

pics from the second display showing retention - http://imgur.com/a/wabqx

retention in both cases got worse over time and doesnt go away for several minutes, and is caused in under 5 minutes of just keeping a window in the same location. The second picture shows desktop icons which burn into the display after just several minutes...

will report back soon!

 

[flyinmac]

Let us know how it works out.

 

[macmee]

Let us know how it works out.

will do

I think your theory will prove to be true and I will be quite sad

 

[flyinmac]

will do

I think your theory will prove to be true and I will be quite sad

Hope it works out for you. But my experience was unfortunately consistent.

 

[macmee]

I'm happy you now have an iMac that you're now pleased with and you have the understanding that not all iMacs were suffering from that issue. While there many people who have this issue, there are others such as myself that do not.


It takes a big man to apologize and kudos to you for doing the right thing.

Just curious since you post a lot affirming that your mac doesn't have retention, and I want to try and figure out the underlying reason why some screen have retention and some dont. I thought it was the panel itself that determines this but I think since I've now had several panels in the same imac with retention that maybe the problem could be to do with air circulation aka heating as flyinmac suggested.

My iMac developed retention and sometimes I run it up into the 90C's. I have an i7 model.

Do you also happen to have the i7 model, and also run heavy software on your iMac and occasionally run it hot?

Also, do you use any apps in full screen that have dark grey or dark blue backgrounds? I never noticed the retention in my first screen until I started using the dark theme in my text editor in full screen mode.

 

[maflynn]

Do you also happen to have the i7 model, and also run heavy software on your iMac and occasionally run it hot?

I have the stock M395/2TB Fusion model, so its an i5. I don't push the iMac very hard, it doesn't get too hot AFAIK

Also, do you use any apps in full screen that have dark grey or dark blue backgrounds? I never noticed the retention in my first screen until I started using the dark theme in my text editor in full screen mode.

I have a dark background, and I frequently have my windows either maximized or pretty close to full screen

 

[macmee]

I have the stock M395/2TB Fusion model, so its an i5. I don't push the iMac very hard, it doesn't get too hot AFAIK


I have a dark background, and I frequently have my windows either maximized or pretty close to full screen

HOLY COW!!

ok so flyinmac's theory that this problem has to do with heating seems like it could be true!

Some people probably never experience this issue because they only buy the base models or don't do anything heavy on the macs, and of course since they've never experienced the problem they believe it is not a serious or common problem

Then the people who do heavy stuff and/or? run an i7 obviously think it's a huge problem because every mac we buy always has this issue no matter what, *but we're always buying the fastest mac and pushing it harder*.

I know that in the 2015 models apple intentionally added a faster fan to the imac AND they increased all the average fan speeds.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: APPLE KNOWS ABOUT IMAGE RETENTION BEING RELATED TO HEAT AS WELL AND THEY ARE SECRETLY TRYING TO REDUCE IT!!!!!!!!!

 

[macmee]

I have the stock M395/2TB Fusion model, so its an i5. I don't push the iMac very hard, it doesn't get too hot AFAIK

I have a dark background, and I frequently have my windows either maximized or pretty close to full screen

I think your previous posts in this thread are wrong and I think it's quite clear now that every single iMac has image retention and that it depends on what the user is doing on the device which determines how quickly the issue develops.

Hope it works out for you. But my experience was unfortunately consistent.

The third screen in a row is beginning to show image retention - I have had it for 1 day.

 

[maflynn]

I think your previous posts in this thread are wrong and I think it's quite clear now that every single iMac has image retention and that it depends on what the user is doing on the device which determines how quickly the issue develops.

I've been wrong before, but how did you come to that conclusion, what source material do you have that provides evidence that supports your thesis?
[doublepost=1479495747][/doublepost]I forget exactly what I wrote, but I believe I was being accused that I was looking at my iMac wrong and that I in fact have Image Retention.

 

[macmee]

I've been wrong before, but how did you come to that conclusion, what source material do you have that provides evidence that supports your thesis?
[doublepost=1479495747][/doublepost]I forget exactly what I wrote, but I believe I was being accused that I was looking at my iMac wrong and that I in fact have Image Retention.

So to be specific about what you were wrong about so that I don't just sound like an angry a@&#^$&, haha, but I think you were wrong to argue that this problem effects only a small portion of iMacs. I am asserting that it effects every iMac. Every. Single. Imac. Period. And I think there's enough proof here to justify that, and there's also a perfectly valid explanation as to why 75% of users haven't noticed this flaw with their own macs.

At first I thought the same as you, that I've just been pretty unlucky getting 1 bad panel. Then when the second panel produced the exact same problem under the same working environment I became pretty suspicious. Now that the third panel is developing the exact same problem I don't think this is a coincidence any more. I think a strong argument can be made, due to my own personal experiences with this problem along with the countless other identical experiences posted here, that every iMac does in fact have this problem, and it's how you use the device which determines how *bad* the problem gets, and also if you even notice the problem to begin with.

I want to point out that this isn't a problem you have to specifically go digging to encounter. As you can see, the visual effects of the problem are noticeable by just using the computer regularly (but the way I use my computer is different than how you use yours!). So, it's not as if we're seeking out a problem just to complain about or anything. We're just doing what we always do, xcode, logic pro, doing whatever, and when we switch to a window with a dark blue or grey background we're greeted with this:

pics from the original display showing retention - http://imgur.com/a/MOxzw

pics from the second display showing retention - http://imgur.com/a/wabqx

I can reproduce this problem on any 2014 i7 295x imac non-deterministically using these steps:

1. use the computer for a few hours to let it warm up which includes running xcode, ios simulator, photoshop
2. use safari for 1 to 30 minutes to browse the web. The worse the panel has degraded, the shorter this step may be.
3. Switch to any application which uses the solarized-dark theme in full screen, and look specifically at the right hand side four inches of the display. The problem always develops here first and spreads outward to the left of the display as time progresses and the display degrades
4. Observe that the burned in image does not go away for several minutes. The interval of time it takes for the burned in image, tested on 3 different panels, seems to range from 3 minutes to 30 minutes of staying on that dark screen

(note: If I change all my themes around so I never use dark themes for any app then I will never notice the retention. So I think that is a big reason why many people haven't noticed the problem yet. That, and their usage patterns may not be frequent or heavy enough to develop the issue rapidly enough to pose a visible issue yet.)

In terms of how frequently people *are* noticing the issue, firstly, nearly 1/4th of all respondents to this poll in this thread have stated that they're experiencing image retention. Then if you do a quick 20 second search of the forum and of google you'll quickly find many scenarios which are exactly identical:

1. I have had 3 different screen replacements and each has developed this problem
2. flyinmac has had multiple devices/screens develop the problem
3. accentaudio had 5 screens and/or imacs develop the problem (I PM'd him to see the current status of his 5th replacement)
4. redheeler had multiple screen replacements and a imac replacement and all of these developed the problem including the new 2015 imac he was given
5. this blog post describes having multiple display replacements and imac replacements and all of them developed the problem
6. this blog post describes the exact same scenario as above as well

So to conclude:

1. this issue *IS* widespread with, from an albeit small sample of 100 people, 22 of those people notice some form of retention
2. we have many examples of how replacing the display fails to resolve the issue (and therefore we know that the problem goes beyond several botched display units)
3. we have clear concise reproduction steps which anyone can execute to reproduce the problem

 

[flyinmac]

I'm sorry to hear that your latest replacement screen is still giving you trouble.

I believe that changing the iMacs design could prevent any of them from developing this issue. A monitor shouldn't have so much heat generated inside it. There should either be more space and more airflow, or the computer components should be fully isolated away from the display components (such as in the pedestal).

 

[macmee]

I'm sorry to hear that your latest replacement screen is still giving you trouble.

I believe that changing the iMacs design could prevent any of them from developing this issue. A monitor shouldn't have so much heat generated inside it. There should either be more space and more airflow, or the computer components should be fully isolated away from the display components (such as in the pedestal).

My fear here is that this is a ticking time bomb like the macbook problem which ended up with a class action.

I think a lot of normal users are buying retina iMacs, and in 3 years time their displays will eventually get destroyed, and apple care wont help them.

If 20% of users noticed the problem early, I suspect another 20% at least will easily discover the issue after using the device for 3 years.

 

[flyinmac]

While I do. Believe all iMacs a succeptible, I don't expect any class action suits. This problem has been in the iMac design since 2004.

But, only a small number of iMac users push their machines hard enough to generate the problems.

The iMac is a nice computer. But it's designed for the light user. And honestly, most home users with iMacs aren't doing tasks that stress the computers.

If they haven't worked their computer hard in its first year, they are unlikely to do so in the next 3 to 5 years. Some people just browse the internet and check email (the latter is a task I'll put off for months if I can get away with it).

People like myself, who can fully load 8 cores 24-hours a day for years, have learned to avoid the iMacs.

The iMac design isn't built for hard work. Rather than provide extra cooling, the machine will decrease its performance to a lower level (throttle) to attempt to bring the heat down. But even with throttling, if you continue to push the computer as hard as it will let you, its still going to get hot.

There are many ways that Apple could make the iMac a true power house and provide for a cooler running system. But it's unlikely that they'll innovate beyond their 12-year old implementation for the iMac.

They've put a lot of time into this particular implementation. It's unlikely that they'll separate the computer from the screen. That would require reimagining how they could create a different kind of all in one machine.

 

[Fishrrman]

macmee wrote:
"I am asserting that it effects every iMac. Every. Single. Imac. Period."

You can "assert", but...

Without empirical data from the observation of "Every. Single. Imac. Period.", you have no proof by which to substantiate your claims.

I'm not saying that the newer iMacs aren't prone to screen burn-in after heavy usage due to heat dissipation problems inside. It seems that many are.

Actually, that sounds quite plausible, as Apple seems less concerned about "function" (cooling being such a function) vis-a-vis "styling" (thinness).

But "every one"?
Can't say, because perhaps every one hasn't been driven through periods of heavy usage and heat generation as yours.

It may also have something to do with the manufacturer of the display panel, Samsung v. LG.

More data is needed.

Perhaps (in your case) as a user who drives the machine to its limits, you'd do better to look at something other than the iMac. Mac Pro, perhaps…?

 

[macmee]

My reproduction steps work in every iMac and every replacement panel I have tried so far. If you have a spare iMac laying around and want to run the steps I've included then you can reproduce the undesirable behaviour too.

How many machines should I reproduce this on just to be safe? 5, 10, 20?

 

[Taz Mangus]

My reproduction steps work in every iMac and every replacement panel I have tried so far. If you have a spare iMac laying around and want to run the steps I've included then you can reproduce the undesirable behaviour too.

How many machines should I reproduce this on just to be safe? 5, 10, 20?

My 2011 iMac had a retention issue early on when I owned it. Apple replaced the LCD panel and after that the retention issue never happened again. Sounds to me like a manufacturing issue with the panels. And I might add that that iMac ran very very hot.

 

[macmee]

My 2011 iMac had a retention issue early on when I owned it. Apple replaced the LCD panel and after that the retention issue never happened again. Sounds to me like a manufacturing issue with the panels. And I might add that that iMac ran very very hot.

I think there's a deeper problem here than a problem with the panels because a lot of folks here have gotten multiple panels in a row with retention.

I'm pretty confident that every iMac has the issue and that it has to do with heat which is what another user pointed out, because we're able to reproduce the retention issue on any iMac (have only tested on i7's though*)