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AfricanTech

macrumors newbie
Jan 25, 2013
7
7
What mouse do you recommend for use with macOS?

If you have to use a mouse (the trackpad is really much better) then I recommend something like the Logitech G Pro Wireless (which is what is use).

When you use the trackpad ensure that the following settings are active

- System Settings; Trackpad

Point and Click Tab
- Force Click and haptic feedback - ON
- Secondary click (right click) - Click or Tap with Two fingers
- Tap to click - ON

Scroll and Zoom Tab
- Natural scrolling - try on and off to see what works for you (mine is on)

Have a look at the ‘More Gestures’ for very useful gesture based shortcuts.

By the way, when you hover over the various options, a short tutorial is displayed in the window above demonstrating where you should place your fingers and what happens when you execute the action.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,239
13,311
OP asked:
"What mouse do you recommend for use with macOS?"

Logitech.

HOWEVER...
If the mouse you're using now suits you, you can almost certainly keep using it.

If it has buttons the Mac doesn't recognize, I'd suggest an app named "SteerMouse" to control it.
 
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ProQuiz

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 15, 2009
283
117
Thanks. I keep hearing from some people how the Magic Mouse is "trash." What makes it so bad?
 

raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
800
1,122
I have been a long time Windows user since Windows 3.0. I decided to get a Mac to learn how to use the OS.

There are some differences. Moving, copying and cutting files is different. If the source and destination are on the same machine dragging and dropping copies. If the source and destination are on different locations that are not local, say an external drive, the files are moved. I think. I have not nailed down the exact scenarios.

CTL-X, CTL-C, CTL-V don't exist. You have to use Command-X, etc. instead. I find this annoying because the keys are too close. Or it is just a problem of muscle memory.

Clicking on the Red dot in the corner does not really close the app. The app icon must be dragged to the trash to close the app.

Unplugging an external drive will produce an error message. Instead of unplugging the external device must be drug to the trash.

Dot files. Ugh. Any file that is accessed, or created on the Mac, will create a "." Dot file. It has something to do with determining file properties and indexing. A thumb drive with 500 files will have 500 dot files on the external drive if those files have been touched on the Mac.

The integration between the Mac, iPhone and iPad is excellent. Creating a Note, creating a photo, etc. and that will be synced to the other devices. It is possible to remove a photo on the Mac and have it also removed on the iPhone.

The delete key functions differently. Using the delete key on the Mac deletes to the left of the cursor and moves the cursor to the left. On the Windows platform the delete key deletes to the right of the cursor and does not move the cursor. The delete key on the Mac is the equivalent of the backspace key on Windows. There is a key combination that can make the delete key on the Mac function like in Windows. Clumsy, but workable solution.

Removing installed apps is easy, mostly on the Mac. Unfortunately this sometimes leaves behind many files that have to be removed manually. And finding the location of those files is sometimes difficult.

Install apps appear in different locations. Some appear in the Launchpad, others appear from the Applications selection in the Finder menu. I have not figured out why all the apps do not appear in both locations. That is annoying as you may have to look in two locations to find the app.

Be patient, work with the system. You can make it work once you get used to the Mac way of doing things.

Frequently used apps should be placed in the task bar, which can be located at the bottom or sides.
 

auxbuss

macrumors 6502
Feb 18, 2014
453
329
UK
I keep hearing from some people how the Magic Mouse is "trash." What makes it so bad?
It's not trash, but its behaviour is different to every other mouse, so it's an acquired taste.

For example, right-click needs you to hold your fingers just so. You can't just rest your fingers on it and press with the right, you kind of have to hover your left. It's odd. It also has no middle-click, and for me that was a deal-breaker.

Being able to do trackpad-type things with it is nice, but they do not compensate for the above, imo.

It would be a great mouse, if it worked!
 
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JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
1,131
I was born in 1984 and have been a lifelong Windows user. Only extremely briefly using Macs in middle and high school. I got my first Mac (a MacBook Pro 14" with the M2 Pro chip) on October 10, 2023 just to try it out because I have been always curious and fascinated by Macs. It was my first time actually getting deep into macOS. I used it for 3 weeks but then Apple had the Mac event and announced the M3 chips. I returned my MacBook Pro with the goal of getting one with the M3 chip.

Now that it is returned, I am having second thoughts about getting another MacBook Pro or just a new desktop gaming PC. My current desktop gaming PC was built in January 2012 and I have been using it ever since so it is definitely time for a new computer whether it be a Mac or Windows PC. The thing is getting a new gaming desktop PC might not be worth it because I really don't game much these days.

However, with the 3 weeks I had the MacBook Pro, it definitely took some time to get used to and I'm not sure if I got completely used to it. Multitasking seems easier on Windows because of the taskbar. Also, maybe it's because I have been using Windows all this time, Windows seems easier to use and more logical than macOS. I don't have a "genuine reason" to use macOS (meaning there is no app that I must use that is only available on macOS) so I am not sure if the switch is worth it.

What do you guys say? I know it is ultimately up to me but I'm looking for any feedback and opinions I can get.
A lifelong user of anything is going to have serious adjustment issues when changing to something new. Your comments about Windows vs. Mac resonate with me only because I feel the exact same in reverse. To me the Mac is much more logical. I find multi-tasking much easier on a Mac. I find the Mac UI much simpler and more efficient. I've also been an Apple user for over 40 years.

If gaming matters to you, even a little, you have to go PC. No other option. Mac gaming has always been rather lame. A "new" Mac game has already been available on every other platform for years usually. PCs and consoles still deliver way more bang for your buck if you're a gamer.

I like the Mac for a lot of reasons. The UI is simple. I like the fixed menu bar. It never made sense to me the way Windows attaches the menu bar to the window itself. I find the Windows taskbar cluttered. The Mac's dock is much more efficient in my opinion. The Mac's heavy use of gestures is also very useful. Three-finger swipe up to reveal your spaces, three finger swipe down to reveal your app windows, for example.

That said, at this point I think both platforms are very mature and don't see much advantage to one over the other. It's really about personal preference. Back in the day it was easy to see why so many people chose Windows. It's where the apps were! It also made sense why certain industries and individuals went Mac. Window desktop publishing apps sucked compared to the Mac for decades. These days most of those platform-specific advantages have evaporated. Photoshop on Windows is just as good as Photoshop on the Mac. Most mainstream apps and services are now available on the Mac. There are definitely niche (mostly business) apps that still aren't available for the Mac, but it doesn't sound like any of those matter to you.

Go with what you like! If the Mac isn't working for you, stick with the PC. But be realistic as well. It's going to take more than a few weeks for you to get used to anything, much less see the advantages.
 

JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
1,131
I have been a long time Windows user since Windows 3.0. I decided to get a Mac to learn how to use the OS.

There are some differences. Moving, copying and cutting files is different. If the source and destination are on the same machine dragging and dropping copies. If the source and destination are on different locations that are not local, say an external drive, the files are moved. I think. I have not nailed down the exact scenarios.
Dragging between different volumes copies. Dragging between folders on the same volume usually moves (permissions can affect this). Holding down the Option key when dragging forces a copy instead of a move. Holding down option and command while dragging creates an alias (link).

CTL-X, CTL-C, CTL-V don't exist. You have to use Command-X, etc. instead. I find this annoying because the keys are too close. Or it is just a problem of muscle memory.
...and Mac users moving to Windows feel the same in reverse. It's a muscle memory thing.

Clicking on the Red dot in the corner does not really close the app. The app icon must be dragged to the trash to close the app.
No!!! Dragging the app icon to the trash deletes the app from your computer.

Compared to the Mac, Windows adds unnecessary windowing layers. It's gotten better - and more Mac-like - over the years, but it's still convoluted. The Mac is simple. Generally speaking, an app runs until you select Quit from the app's File menu. Closing a window (clicking the red dot) is not the same as quitting an app. Unfortunately some apps do not follow this convention, including some Apple apps. If you click the red dot in Photos, the app does in fact quit.

Apple used to be a lot more disciplined when it comes to UI and app behavior. Once Johnny Ive took over user interface, everything really suffered (so glad that overrated hack is gone!!!). Most Mac apps still follow the tried and true convention of running until you quit them via the File menu.

Unplugging an external drive will produce an error message. Instead of unplugging the external device must be drug to the trash.
You need to unmount a volume before disconnecting it. This is a safety measure more than anything else. What if you have an open file on that volume and just unplug it? Obviously Apple can't prevent a user from simply unplugging, but requiring the user to press the little eject button in the Finder sidebar (or drag to the trash) keeps the user from ejecting volumes with open files, thus preventing possible corruption or data loss. It's a best practices kind of thing. So they nag you if you don't do it.

Dot files. Ugh. Any file that is accessed, or created on the Mac, will create a "." Dot file. It has something to do with determining file properties and indexing. A thumb drive with 500 files will have 500 dot files on the external drive if those files have been touched on the Mac.
What are dot files?

The integration between the Mac, iPhone and iPad is excellent. Creating a Note, creating a photo, etc. and that will be synced to the other devices. It is possible to remove a photo on the Mac and have it also removed on the iPhone.
This is one of Apple's biggest selling points. If you use multiple devices, they all sync very nicely without any user interaction.

The delete key functions differently. Using the delete key on the Mac deletes to the left of the cursor and moves the cursor to the left. On the Windows platform the delete key deletes to the right of the cursor and does not move the cursor. The delete key on the Mac is the equivalent of the backspace key on Windows. There is a key combination that can make the delete key on the Mac function like in Windows. Clumsy, but workable solution.
Holding the "fn" key on the Mac (function key with the globe icon) while pressing delete acts like the Windows delete key. I wouldn't call that clumsy. Full-size Mac keyboards also include a "Del" key, which is like the Windows delete key.

Removing installed apps is easy, mostly on the Mac. Unfortunately this sometimes leaves behind many files that have to be removed manually. And finding the location of those files is sometimes difficult.
This is another area where things are improving, but you are right. Most of these files are in the (hidden) Library folder. There are a number of third party uninstaller apps that are quite effective.

Install apps appear in different locations. Some appear in the Launchpad, others appear from the Applications selection in the Finder menu. I have not figured out why all the apps do not appear in both locations. That is annoying as you may have to look in two locations to find the app.
All apps are installed in the Applications folder. There is a root-level Applications folder that all users access. This is usually where apps are installed. Each user can also have his or her own Applications folder inside his or her Home folder.

Launchpad is hot garbage and totally un-Mac-like! Avoid!!! Deleting an App from the Launchpad, for example, deletes it from your computer and does not move it to the trash. The Launchpad acts like an iOS device, which is confusing.

There are two ways I launch apps. First, press command and the space bar together to bring up Spotlight. Type the first few letters of the app name and hit the return key when it shows up. Lightning fast! The second option is to drag the Applications folder to the dock. Once the folder is in the dock, right click on it and select View as List. Now when you click that folder, an alphabetical list of all your apps shows up.

Be patient, work with the system. You can make it work once you get used to the Mac way of doing things.
100%!

Frequently used apps should be placed in the task bar, which can be located at the bottom or sides.
I prefer to use the dock only for running apps and minimized windows, choosing instead to launch apps via the methods described above. I you fill the dock with a lot of app shortcuts, when you start minimizing windows, everything gets very very very small. But that's a personal preference thing!
 
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Hopscotcher

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Oct 28, 2023
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There’s literally nothing you mentioned about what you’re going to use it for that you can’t do on Windows. If you’re not going to game on it, then the M3 seems like overkill. If you’re wanting super long battery life on the go and portability, you should get the 15” M2 MacBook Air. For window management similar to Windows get the Rectangle app, which is free, or get the Pro version with more features which is only like 10 bucks, though the free version is more than sufficient.

Battery life still sucks horribly on Windows laptops (and they get very hot), which is the main reason to get a MacBook. If battery life and heat are not a concern, there’s some great Windows laptops on the market right now, such as the ASUS Zephyrus line and Lenovo’s Legion series.
 

jido

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2010
297
145
There’s literally nothing you mentioned about what you’re going to use it for that you can’t do on Windows. If you’re not going to game on it, then the M3 seems like overkill. If you’re wanting super long battery life on the go and portability, you should get the 15” M2 MacBook Air. For window management similar to Windows get the Rectangle app, which is free, or get the Pro version with more features which is only like 10 bucks, though the free version is more than sufficient.

Battery life still sucks horribly on Windows laptops (and they get very hot), which is the main reason to get a MacBook. If battery life and heat are not a concern, there’s some great Windows laptops on the market right now, such as the ASUS Zephyrus line and Lenovo’s Legion series.
The OP already ordered a MacBook Pro, my friend.
 

davidlv

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2009
2,291
874
Kyoto, Japan
What are dot files?
Invisible files. Files that start with a period as the first "letter" in the file name. Use the Command + . key combo to show them in Finder or use Tinkertool to have the Finder do that.
They are invisible for a reason (mainly to prevent deletion). So keep them invisible unless it is really necessary.
 

gank41

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2008
4,350
5,022
Invisible files. Files that start with a period as the first "letter" in the file name. Use the Command + . key combo to show them in Finder or use Tinkertool to have the Finder do that.
They are invisible for a reason (mainly to prevent deletion). So keep them invisible unless it is really necessary.
Windows has hidden files, too.
 

JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
1,131
Invisible files. Files that start with a period as the first "letter" in the file name. Use the Command + . key combo to show them in Finder or use Tinkertool to have the Finder do that.
They are invisible for a reason (mainly to prevent deletion). So keep them invisible unless it is really necessary.
I should have phrased my question differently. I know what invisible files are. I just didn't understand what kind of invisible files the OP was referring to when he plugs a thumb drive into a Windows machine. I've moved plenty of files between Mac and Windows over the years and, the occasional .DS_Store file aside, I almost never see invisible files on a thumb drive.
 

raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
800
1,122
No!!! Dragging the app icon to the trash deletes the app from your computer.
Yes, I miswrote that thinking of something else while typing. I was thinking of recent used apps in the launchpad. I borked that comment badly. A real brain fart.

An app has to have Quit selected to really quit. Clicking the red dot does not really close the app. On Windows clicking on the “X” in the upper right corner closes the app.
What are dot files?
Create some files on the Mac on a thumb drive. Then put that thumb drive in a Windows machine and show hidden files. Every file on the thumb drive will have a corresponding “.” dot file that is normally hidden. In fact, at one time years past, Mac’s were so insistent on putting dot files on external media, it would destroy the directory on the thumb drive. The scenario happens when the thumb drive was 100% full with zero space. Opening a file on the thumb drive would wipe out the rest of the files.
Most of these files are in the (hidden) Library folder.
Intuit and Adobe seem to be the worst offenders. Blackmagic Design is a close second. Lot of junk left when an app is uninstalled.
The second option is to drag the Applications folder to the dock. Once the folder is in the dock, right click on it and select View as List. Now when you click that folder, an alphabetical list of all your apps shows up.
Nice to know that can be done. One has to remember that using the trackpad using two fingers is a right click. Most windows machines have a right click area on the trackpad or on the mouse. The Apple mouse can be configured for right click.

Another change I had to make was the scrolling direction. Apple just seems wrong. Again muscle memory.
Deleting an App from the Launchpad, for example, deletes it from your computer and does not move it to the trash.
That has not been my experience. Although I have only done that a couple of times and it was apps I wanted to remove. I think, memory is not clear, I also had to remove the app from the application folder.
I wouldn't call that clumsy.
I consider any multiple key combination to be clumsy regardless of the purpose. Even ctl-x,c,v on Windows I consider clumsy. How hard would it have been to put those functions on a, wait for it, a function key. Those keys were left over from Wordstar days, maybe even WordPerfect days.
So they nag you if you don't do it.
By then it is too late. I get the message when I plug the external media back into the Mac.

Yes, Mac is different from Windows and seems strange when coming from Windows. The opposite is also true. The transition can be made either way.

I have a Surface laptop, a very nice machine. I have MacBook Air, also a very nice machine. I took the MacBook with me to Europe because of the integration with my iPhone. I can run Windows on the MacBook and in fact I do. I have a couple of Windows apps where the Mac equivalent sucks. The apps were originally Windows based and ported to Mac and that port was poorly done. In my opinion.

I have not heard of anyone running MacOS on Windows.
 

raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
800
1,122
Battery life still sucks horribly on Windows laptops (and they get very hot)
My Surface laptop has battery life that lasts all day for my workload. The device has never gotten hot. It has gotten warm when rendering video but so has the MacBook Air. I can consume my MacBook Air battery in three hours when rendering video or exporting photographs from Lightroom. And I can use it as a lap warmer. Same as my Surface laptop.
 

raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
800
1,122
Windows has hidden files, too.
True, but Windows does not create a hidden for every file created under Windows. When I export 1,500 files from Lightroom there is an additional 1,501 hidden files created at the same time. That does not happen with Windows Doing the same export.
 

JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
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True, but Windows does not create a hidden for every file created under Windows. When I export 1,500 files from Lightroom there is an additional 1,501 hidden files created at the same time. That does not happen with Windows Doing the same export.
Neither does macOS. I'm not sure what is happening for you in Lightroom since I don't use it, but I've moved plenty of files between Mac and Windows machines over the years and I rarely run across any hidden, or as you call them dot, files. macOS does create some hidden files and folders, especially at a volume's root level, but I've never seen one hidden file for every visible file in over 30 years of using both Mac and Windows. What format are you using for the thumb drive? I'll admit, I don't use Windows much, but I've moved plenty of files between platforms and never experienced this.

Ok...I just did a little googling and I guess I must have always used exFAT or NTFS formatted thumb drives because apparently hidden files are not created when copying to those file systems.
 
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ProQuiz

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 15, 2009
283
117
Is this a valid method of deleting apps along with their leftover files without having to use a third-party "cleaner" app?

 

Hopscotcher

Suspended
Oct 28, 2023
55
134
Is this a valid method of deleting apps along with their leftover files without having to use a third-party "cleaner" app?

You seem to have some strange vendetta against third-party apps. I use tons of third-party apps because macOS has great ones.

You can use that method in the video, but I just use this: https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

You just drag and drop the app you want to uninstall into the AppCleaner window and you're good.

It's free, by the way.



Other good free apps for dealing with unarchiving files are The Unarchiver or Keka (Keka has WAY more options, though).
 
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raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
800
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Ok...I just did a little googling and I guess I must have always used exFAT or NTFS formatted thumb drives because apparently hidden files are not created when copying to those file systems.
I exported 1,500 files from Lightroom into a folder on the Mac desktop. I copied that folder to a 1TB external drive formatted as exFat. When I plugged that drive into my Windows machine every single file I had exported from Lightroom had a corresponding hidden file with a “.“ in front.

My default photo organizer displays hidden files.

This same behavior occurred on servers at my last job where a couple of individuals used a Mac for magazine publishing. Every file the Mac’s created on the servers had “.” files.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
CTL-X, CTL-C, CTL-V don't exist. You have to use Command-X, etc. instead. I find this annoying because the keys are too close. Or it is just a problem of muscle memory.
Command-X, Command-C, Command-V predate Ctrl-X/C/V in Windows by a number of years. That's something important to realize about Mac vs Windows - a lot of Mac "quirks" predate the establishment of the Windows "norm" by potentially close to a decade. (And, sometimes, the Windows norm had the benefit of that decade, e.g. by 1995, you were working with several hundred meg hard drives, whereas the classic Mac OS was designed for 1-2 400-800K floppies)

You have more experience with Windows 3.0 than I do, but I thought Ctrl-X/C/V really came along mostly in Windows 3.1 and then 9x. Before then, I thought the copy/paste keyboard shortcuts involved something weird, possibly with the Ins key... I couldn't tell you if it was Alt-Ins, Shift-Ins, etc?

And in the DOS era, there were no standard keys for these kinds of things - anyone remember the cardboard things you put around your F keys to tell you all the keys for WordPerfect 5.1?
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
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Toronto, ON
True, but Windows does not create a hidden for every file created under Windows. When I export 1,500 files from Lightroom there is an additional 1,501 hidden files created at the same time. That does not happen with Windows Doing the same export.
And the MacOS doesn't do that for files on HFS/APFS/etc drives either.

Like most things, there's a historical component to all of this. The original Mac file systems dating back to MFS in 1984 had cool things like type/creator codes (murdered by the Internet/TCP/IP in the early 2000s), resource/data forks, etc. The Microsoft file systems, or at least FAT/FAT16/FAT32, do not have that ability. (NTFS rather secretly does have the ability to store full classic Mac metadata... they built that in because, little known trivia from the early 1990s, they offered an AppleShare-compatible file server with NT server. And... well, obviously, that would require storing Mac metadata and, in particular, data/resource forks, otherwise you'd corrupt the files). I ... want to believe... that Mac file systems can also store things like which Finder windows were open, their window placement, etc - I am pretty sure that's how it worked in the classic OS at least, if I eject a floppy with 3 folder windows open and you put it in your Mac, you'd get the same 3 folders opening. But I haven't used the classic OS with floppies in 20 years so I might be remembering wrong.

And, over time, what's happened is that the Microsoft file systems, and FAT especially, have become ubiquitous for data transfers, including sneakernet between two Macs. (How many people other than old Mac nerds would buy a flash drive and reformat it HFS+/APFS?) So... what happens when you have all this metadata that can't be stored in FAT? Either you delete it, which would make Mac users grumpy, or you come up with whatever kludgy way of storing it within the confines of lousy filesystems from 40 years ago you can come up with. Hence these hidden files.

The older OS X versions are worse at this too, they'll leave lots of hidden files behind on SMB volumes as well.

But I think it's important to understand that, for better or worse, OS X has spent 20+ years playing in a world of TCP/IP, MIME, FAT32, SMB (Apple doesn't even have their own file sharing protocol anymore), etc, none of which are particularly friendly to the traditional Mac ways of doing things. Doesn't help that all this standardization basically happened around the peak of the dark era in the late 1990s, i.e. when Apple had the least ability to shape the development of these things.
 
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VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
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An app has to have Quit selected to really quit. Clicking the red dot does not really close the app. On Windows clicking on the “X” in the upper right corner closes the app.
This is another historical thing. If you go back to the classic Mac OS, you have a single-application OS with multiple windows. So, for example, let's say you have a two floppy Mac with MacWrite. You have documents on floppy A and floppy B. You finish working on the document on floppy A, so you close it using the close button in the top-left or the Cmd-W keyboard shortcut. Then you go to 'Open', eject floppy A, insert floppy B, pick your document, continue working. Or you could open two documents in separate windows (including from separate floppies - the classic OS will handle all the floppy swapping on its own) while running MacWrite. When you are done working with MacWrite, you go to File -> Quit and up pops the Finder.

The red dot refers to a document, because only documents have windows in the Mac OS - the application always has the menu bar. Close the document window, application stays running waiting for you to open another document, if you want to close the application, you close it from the menu bar. Exact same behaviour as in 1984.

I would add that the upper-right X in Windows was introduced in 1995, i.e. 11 years later. Before then it was double clicking on the top-left menu. And before MDI went byebye in the early 2000s (I think Word 2000 was the beginning of the end for MDI), most Windows applications had a big parent window, then a window within that window for each document, each with their respective close buttons.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
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Toronto, ON
A lifelong user of anything is going to have serious adjustment issues when changing to something new. Your comments about Windows vs. Mac resonate with me only because I feel the exact same in reverse. To me the Mac is much more logical. I find multi-tasking much easier on a Mac. I find the Mac UI much simpler and more efficient. I've also been an Apple user for over 40 years.
I would put it a bit more differently - the Mac came first, and has largely stuck with most of the same UI paradigms since the beginning. The modern Windows GUI dates back to Windows 95, 11 years later, and frankly, I think Microsoft probably did a few things better and more scalably. Mac team was working with 128K of RAM, 1-2 400K floppy, 9" CRT monitor; Windows 95 team was aiming for 8 megs of RAM, ~500 meg hard drive, probably 800x600 screen resolution, and I think expected those to keep rapidly improving.

Take, say, the menu bar on top. Made tons of sense on a 9" CRT in 1984. But... on a 27" iMac, does it really make sense to have the menu bar at the top when an application might only have a small window at the bottom of the screen? I actually think the menu bar within the window allows for more flexibility on larger screens. The other issue with the menu bar is that the Mac OS forces every application to have a menu bar when plenty of applications in the past 15 years (MS Office, Firefox/Chrome, etc) have been moving away from menu bars entirely on other OSes. And I get that - one of the absolutely critical goals of the classic MacOS was preventing people from just porting text-based applications to the Mac, but at the same time, macOS in 2023 locks you into a UI paradigm that may no longer be optimal.

Another example of a weird Macism - why is it that to open something from the Finder you press Cmd-O, while to rename it, you type return and start typing? The idea of hitting return/enter to open things makes a lot more logical sense... and it's worth noting, dialog boxes in the Mac OS follow that convention and have for decades, but the Finder doesn't. See https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=A_Floppy_named_lsadkfjalhkjh.txt which explains how it used to be that just randomly typing renamed things, and how they added requiring return when they realized the disaster. And I would further add that the idea that hitting return/enter makes stuff 'go' long predates the classic MacOS.

I also tend to think that the start menu was a pretty good idea. The classic Mac OS forces you to know your folder structure to open software... or, I suppose, create aliases somewhere else. Interestingly they "fixed" that by adding Launcher in the Performa days, although I don't know if anyone really used that. One of the things that very much shocked me when I first started playing with early OS X is that before they added Launchpad in Lion, they went back to the classic OS paradigm of having to open up your Finder windows, go to the place where your application is stored (which could be the applications folder), and open it up from there (and pin it to the Dock if you wanted). That seems less intuitive to me... and you're talking to a guy who had about 6 years of System 5/6 experience before going over to Windows a few months before Windows 95.

(I would also add that when they turned NeXTSTEP into OS X, a whole bunch of non-Mac UI elements made the trip as well. So for example, OS X's Cmd-Tab multitasking interface is a carbon copy of pre-Vista Windows. And before someone flames me, maybe Windows copied it from NeXTSTEP in the first place, I don't have enough experience with pre-Tiger OS X to know.)

The other thing I will say, and this gets into a bigger rant, is that a lot of cool MacOS things have fallen by the wayside over the years. e.g. the classic OS' way of managing floppies was absolutely brilliant, whereas Windows and PCs' lousy floppy drives were absolutely pathetic at it, over a decade later. But the demise of removable media... basically made this all moot. Today a flash drive behaves effectively the same in Windows or OS X...
 
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zevrix

macrumors 6502
Oct 10, 2012
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What do you guys think about the Magic Mouse?

It's not ergonomic and I never use it as I find it too uncomfortable and otherwise horrible. I always sold the ones that were included with iMacs I bought. Using Microsoft Sculpt mice for years.
 
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