M1 Air with Thermal Pad Mod

[Tenkaykev]

My version of that Griffin stand does not have the little transparent stops at the end of the arms. In the old days of a revolving disk MacBook, the vibration was just enough, over a period of unsupervised hours, for the MacBook to slide off the stand. I assume they have added those stops because of this. So, then the rubber was absolutely essential in normal use.

To address the question, if you were a purist for performance, yes remove the rubber strips from this sort of stand. My thoughts are that 1) I only remove the bottom part of the protective shell case of my MBA to dissipate heat on the stand for a serious sustained load. If it is metal to metal there will inevitably be scratches on the bottom case in time; 2) the re-sale value depends upon physical external condition and the better I look after this MBA the more I have to put towards the next amazing machine in a few years from now hence the less this machine actually costs me.

If I had had tons of money to spare, like those video freaks above, I would have gone for the very top-spec MBA (still not the MBP) and dispensed with all the difficulties of keeping it pristine for resale. If you have ever looked at ex-pro used equipment of any sort you will know what I mean.



Yes, even with the mod, the heat is quite localised to where the pad meets the bottom case. The bottom case was never designed as a heatsink and is not great as one. Tinkering around the edges is, well, tinkering around the edges How far do you go for an extra tenth of a percent? I am very happy with my compromises and personal optimisations.

Completely agree, I'm only a light user but an inveterate tinkerer when something captures my imagination.
Since my earlier message I've had another play around. I do a bit of running and keep a flexible gel cold pack in the freezer for treating injuries and niggles.
It's about 6" x 3" in size and quite pliable. I stuck it on my "frankenscales" and made sure it sat between the rubber nubs on the base of the Air. I then placed my Air with the centre of the Gel pad immediately under where the processor would be and left it for five minutes before starting the test.
I started a 60 minute Cinebench R23 test and took the score at the end of each completed run by hovering the mouse pointer over the "running" legend in the results box. I also made a note of the Battery and processor temperatures every five minutes.
I lack your excellent charting skills but here are the results.

Cinebench ran a total of 36 passes. From pass 1 to pass 36 :

7788, 7773, 7759, 7755, 7728, 7738, 7745, 7750,7753, 7754, 7756, 7759, 7761, 7763, 7764, 7765, 7766, 7767, 7768, 7768, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7770, 7770, 7770, 7769, 7770, 7769, 7767, 7766, 7763, 7761

The starting temperature of Processor / Battery was: 3 C / 20C

Temperatures after each five minutes thereafter: 57 C / 20 C : 65 C / 23 C : 69 C / 26 C :

72 C / 28 C : 75 C / 30 C : 79 C / 32 C : 81 C / 34 C : 86 C / 36 C : 88C / 38 C : 89 C / 39 C : 89 C / 40 C : 90 C / 41 C

When I removed the gel pack from under the Air it was quite warm to the touch so had gradually lost effectiveness towards the latter stages of the run.

As I said earlier, I'm a light user, and don't do any heavy workloads. This exercise was just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[timmillea]

Completely agree, I'm only a light user but an inveterate tinkerer when something captures my imagination.
Since my earlier message I've had another play around. I do a bit of running and keep a flexible gel cold pack in the freezer for treating injuries and niggles.
It's about 6" x 3" in size and quite pliable. I stuck it on my "frankenscales" and made sure it sat between the rubber nubs on the base of the Air. I then placed my Air with the centre of the Gel pad immediately under where the processor would be and left it for five minutes before starting the test.
I started a 60 minute Cinebench R23 test and took the score at the end of each completed run by hovering the mouse pointer over the "running" legend in the results box. I also made a note of the Battery and processor temperatures every five minutes.
I lack your excellent charting skills but here are the results.

Cinebench ran a total of 36 passes. From pass 1 to pass 36 :

7788, 7773, 7759, 7755, 7728, 7738, 7745, 7750,7753, 7754, 7756, 7759, 7761, 7763, 7764, 7765, 7766, 7767, 7768, 7768, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7769, 7770, 7770, 7770, 7769, 7770, 7769, 7767, 7766, 7763, 7761

The starting temperature of Processor / Battery was: 3 C / 20C

Temperatures after each five minutes thereafter: 57 C / 20 C : 65 C / 23 C : 69 C / 26 C :

72 C / 28 C : 75 C / 30 C : 79 C / 32 C : 81 C / 34 C : 86 C / 36 C : 88C / 38 C : 89 C / 39 C : 89 C / 40 C : 90 C / 41 C

When I removed the gel pack from under the Air it was quite warm to the touch so had gradually lost effectiveness towards the latter stages of the run.

As I said earlier, I'm a light user, and don't do any heavy workloads. This exercise was just to satisfy my curiosity.

Those figures suggest to me that the icepack kept the CPU at near maximum performance for 60 mins. Without replacing it though, I think the next 60 minutes would have been very different!

I did a quick chart (in Numbers) using the same scales as my own charts for direct comparison.

Performance is essentially flat and at its peak against a background of steadily heating innards. That little dip at the end of the CB line is a clue as to what is about to come.

It is all food for thought and has made me think about the Peltier elements I bought a few years ago intended for a solar-powered fridge project. One in contact with the hot spot of the lower case could make a silent, small heat pump.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Hey, thanks for the graph 👍😁
I could see that the numbers were starting to trend downwards, I actually keep a couple of icepacks in the freezer for treating my hamstrings, I should have rotated them but that would have just kept the numbers constant for a while longer.
The Peltier cooler idea would be interesting, before retiring I worked in Electrical Engineering and had access to lots of kit thats no longer available to me. As you say, we’ve probably reached the limit of what’s possible with the processor in the Air, and it’s nice to know that we are getting similar performance to the Pro for about a fiver 😎

 

[wpalomine]

Did the mod, base m1 air. The bottom case no longer flex, feels more solid. I don't think I will ever need the extra horsepower, but like the idea of heat dissipating outside the case.

Not a fan of benchmarks, but did it anyway to share results: 7813, 7668 (10min) and 7444(30min)

 

[DarwinOSX]

Hi all just "upgraded" from an early 2020 MBA i3 to the M1 MBA 8/256. 2020 lurker here.

On my prior i3 MBA, I had performed the thermal pad mod with great results as shown with various users in the extensive thermal mod thread. lol at that laptop performance compared to the M1.

I ordered the 200mm x 200mm x 3mm thermal pad and it will be arriving tomorrow. The 3mm is because the heat sink appears to sit lower and therefore farther from the back case when it is closed. The 3mm will ensure contact to the aluminum.

Since the heat sink on the M1 MBA is an elongated piece from the processor all the way to the edge, I plan to cover the whole piece edge to edge. Since this processor barely breaks a sweat I will also remove the sticky tape covering on the case to ensure best adhesion. I have no issue with additional heat that will be on the backside since I know this processor barely heats up doing mainstream things.

Geekbench doesn't seem to have any impact on M1 thermal since the processor barely heats up to 50C without breaking a sweat through multiple repeated runs of up to 5 times with no change to score.

The test will be performed with Cinebench R23 through the 10 minute thermal test run for multicore to see if the score drops into the low 6000s or not. On the single loop, multicore runs from YouTube it seems the M1 MBA and MBP are aligned in scores and only on the 2nd or 3rd run does the MBA begin to throttle.

Any input, please provide.

Stay tuned.

EDIT: 10 minute and 30 minute cinebench runs performed with incredible results shown in page 1 and page 2 of this thread.

We all look forward to you frying your Air and complaining Apple won't repair it.

 

[timmillea]

We all look forward to you frying your Air and complaining Apple won't repair it.

There are 14 discreet thermal sensors in the m1 MBA. It still throttles back according to Apple's algorithm it is just that the mod allows better heat dissipation and hence better sustained performance. Nothing is being operated outside of Apple's thermal design envelope. It is not like 'overclocking'.

The question then arises, why didn't Apple add the thermal pad especially as the evidence was already out there from the previous gen MBA ? Answer, because under sustained load the bottom panel gets uncomfortably hot to rest on naked legs. The U.S. being a particularly litigious country, you can imagine the class actions by people claiming to be permanently maimed with scolds from MBAs. As I have already documented, the best performance (without active cooling) is obtained by putting the MBA on a stand that allows free air circulation, not on a lap. The combination of the mod and a stand yields around 17% steady-state performance increase, or one hour in every seven saved, forever.

Have there been any reports of the modded early 2020 MBA 'frying' or been refused repair under warranty? The total absence of such reports should give confidence that this mod is perfectly safe.

 

[Tenkaykev]

There are 14 discreet thermal sensors in the m1 MBA. It still throttles back according to Apple's algorithm it is just that the mod allows better heat dissipation and hence better sustained performance. Nothing is being operated outside of Apple's thermal design envelope. It is not like 'overclocking'.

The question then arises, why didn't Apple add the thermal pad especially as the evidence was already out there from the previous gen MBA ? Answer, because under sustained load the bottom panel gets uncomfortably hot to rest on naked legs. The U.S. being a particularly litigious country, you can imagine the class actions by people claiming to be permanently maimed with scolds from MBAs. As I have already documented, the best performance (without active cooling) is obtained by putting the MBA on a stand that allows free air circulation, not on a lap. The combination of the mod and a stand yields around 17% steady-state performance increase, or one hour in every seven saved, forever.

Have there been any reports of the modded early 2020 MBA 'frying' or been refused repair under warranty? The total absence of such reports should give confidence that this mod is perfectly safe.

I was going to post a refutal, but you've stated it in a far more reasoned and eloquent way 👍

 

[KarimLeVallois]

There are 14 discreet thermal sensors in the m1 MBA. It still throttles back according to Apple's algorithm it is just that the mod allows better heat dissipation and hence better sustained performance. Nothing is being operated outside of Apple's thermal design envelope. It is not like 'overclocking'.

The question then arises, why didn't Apple add the thermal pad especially as the evidence was already out there from the previous gen MBA ? Answer, because under sustained load the bottom panel gets uncomfortably hot to rest on naked legs. The U.S. being a particularly litigious country, you can imagine the class actions by people claiming to be permanently maimed with scolds from MBAs. As I have already documented, the best performance (without active cooling) is obtained by putting the MBA on a stand that allows free air circulation, not on a lap. The combination of the mod and a stand yields around 17% steady-state performance increase, or one hour in every seven saved, forever.

Have there been any reports of the modded early 2020 MBA 'frying' or been refused repair under warranty? The total absence of such reports should give confidence that this mod is perfectly safe.

I thought it was because using the thermal pad pushes the surface temperature of the laptop above the 55c TME limit?

That's why Apple limits it to 54.5c maximum.

 

[DrDVil]

I thought it was because using the thermal pad pushes the surface temperature of the laptop above the 55c TME limit?

That's why Apple limits it to 54.5c maximum.

That's correct, I think Linus explained it quite well:

 

[timmillea]

I watched that video once. I can't bear to watch it again. What is TME?

You can imagine that the forthcoming M1 Macs will have a couple more high-performance cores and BETTER COOLING. I would not suggest that the poor cooling in the cheapest models was deliberate to impress with the more-expensive models to come but, oops, I just did.

 

[KnICS]

I doubt Apple implemented poor cooling juts to make future pros look better. Good thermal cooling comes down to physics: it needs lots of space and mass, both of which aren't easy in small light laptops. Thermal cooling (without allowing the case to heat up beyond what's allowed by trade regs) also adds to cost. Could they have made the M1 Air perform better by doing what we all did? Yes. To stay within regulations, they would have also had to add a bigger heat spreader to sink up more heat, a fan, maybe heat pipes to disperse the heat to different parts of the case etc. Now the $999 Air costs and weighs more than a Pro.

By applying the mod ourselves, we get the benefit of performance because we've opted to accept the uncomfortable levels of heat, and because we aren't bound by the same trade regulations Apple is.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

I doubt Apple implemented poor cooling juts to make future pros look better. Good thermal cooling comes down to physics: it needs lots of space and mass, both of which aren't easy in small light laptops. Thermal cooling (without allowing the case to heat up beyond what's allowed by trade regs) also adds to cost. Could they have made the M1 Air perform better by doing what we all did? Yes. To stay within regulations, they would have also had to add a bigger heat spreader to sink up more heat, a fan, maybe heat pipes to disperse the heat to different parts of the case etc. Now the $999 Air costs and weighs more than a Pro.

By applying the mod ourselves, we get the benefit of performance because we've opted to accept the uncomfortable levels of heat, and because we aren't bound by the same trade regulations Apple is.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[KnICS]

BTW, I've been quiet here for a while as I've been occupied with another project... but I've continued to expiriment with this mod and with external coolers. One question I have is: does anyone know what the stock Apple thermal pad is? (the black square sponge found on many higher spec Airs). I like this material as it is not sticky at all. I removed mine (it was held on with a thin layer of soft glue and peeled right off) but I cant figure out what it is or where to get more. It's conductivity is low compared to commercial thermal pads, but the fact that it is highly compressible and completely dry is a huge plus. Anyone have any clues? I've scoured the internet looking for it ...

 

[KnICS]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I really look forward to seeing what Apple does when they have space, weight, and price to throw at the performance problem. I suspect we are going to be amazed all over again. And ... I look forward to taking their bigger, heavier, and more expensive pro laptop and finding ways to make it even better through similar mods.

(Yes, I'm the kind of person who removes the safety shutoffs on my lawnmower, too

 

[JackJoachim]

Just curious, but wouldn’t you want to use the thermal pad that is rated for the highest W/mK?

 

[KnICS]

Just curious, but wouldn’t you want to use the thermal pad that is rated for the highest W/mK?

Yeah high W/mK is better, but it but I want that material for a different project where I need good thermal contact but where the two parts move and don't always touch. Neither part is a CPU, and I only need thermal conductivity that's "better than air" ... even 1 W/mK is several times better than air.

I've tried 'normal' thermal pads for this other project and they work great but they're tacky so as soon as air gets to them, so does dust and dirt, and they tend to move/peel away with too much movement. The stuff n the M1MBAir is perfect

 

[rapidxc]

Hey everyone, instead of using thermal pad mods to turn the back of the laptop into a heatsink, why not improve the heatsink inside the machine by using thin copper sheets? You can mold the sheets in such a way that it covers the entire area of the laptop, and this vast area of thin copper should keep temperatures down and prevent it from throttling. Once again, the sheet should be thin enough and should not make contact with the bottom plate. This way you get sustained performance and no hot backplate.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Hey everyone, instead of using thermal pad mods to turn the back of the laptop into a heatsink, why not improve the heatsink inside the machine by using thin copper sheets? You can mold the sheets in such a way that it covers the entire area of the laptop, and this vast area of thin copper should keep temperatures down and prevent it from throttling. Once again, the sheet should be thin enough and should not make contact with the bottom plate. This way you get sustained performance and no hot backplate.

I fail to see how that would work. The hottest part of the Air is the Processor and that is why it has a heatsink on it. The unmodified Air draws the heat along the heatsink where it dissipates into the internals of the machine and into the outside air via the case. The 8/8 core Air has a thermal sponge fitted to part of the heatsink. This makes contact between the heatsink and the base of the machine where it dissipates into the surrounding air. This sponge is omitted in the base model, perhaps to make the 8/8 models perform better in benchmarking scores as fitting an aftermarket thermal pad does boost the benchmarks to a level equivalent to the Pro.
The cost of this is that the base can get hot where the thermal pad contacts the base and some find it uncomfortably warm if used on the lap. On a desk it doesn't seem to be a problem.
With your copper sheet idea the heat would travel into the copper sheets and spread around the inside of the machine. It would still need to dissipate from the machine and as you specified no contact between the copper sheets and the case then the heat would have no easy path to escape. There's also the issue of the copper sheet and all of the electronic components and battery, you would need to keep these electrically and thermally isolated.
I could see a combination of thermal pad and external heat sink working, and that is what the various laptop stands with integral cooling fans achieve.

 

[tis]

Congratulations! You spent $30 on thermal pads, and made your MBA burn your legs off, to save 30 seconds on processing time today. I'm sure it was well worth it.

Seriously, though. I think this mod makes no more sense than wearing your underwear for two days straight just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds placing them in the washer.

 

[adrianlondon]

Seriously, though. I think this mod makes no more sense than wearing your underwear for two days straight just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds placing them in the washer.

That's disgusting! You're meant to turn them inside-out for the second day

 

[rapidxc]

I fail to see how that would work. The hottest part of the Air is the Processor and that is why it has a heatsink on it. The unmodified Air draws the heat along the heatsink where it dissipates into the internals of the machine and into the outside air via the case. The 8/8 core Air has a thermal sponge fitted to part of the heatsink. This makes contact between the heatsink and the base of the machine where it dissipates into the surrounding air. This sponge is omitted in the base model, perhaps to make the 8/8 models perform better in benchmarking scores as fitting an aftermarket thermal pad does boost the benchmarks to a level equivalent to the Pro.
The cost of this is that the base can get hot where the thermal pad contacts the base and some find it uncomfortably warm if used on the lap. On a desk it doesn't seem to be a problem.
With your copper sheet idea the heat would travel into the copper sheets and spread around the inside of the machine. It would still need to dissipate from the machine and as you specified no contact between the copper sheets and the case then the heat would have no easy path to escape. There's also the issue of the copper sheet and all of the electronic components and battery, you would need to keep these electrically and thermally isolated.
I could see a combination of thermal pad and external heat sink working, and that is what the various laptop stands with integral cooling fans achieve.

Well, if you theoretically were to put the sheet around the inside of the machine, the heat would spread more evenly inside the machine. Of course, turning the backplate into a heatsink would give you a much longer sustained performance without throttling. But, there are copper vapor chamber sheets with liquid inside them that some gaming phones have. Adding these sheets would spread the heat around more easily, and due to the water vapor inside the coper sheet, it would take longer for the entire sheet to become hot. By the time it takes the heat from the die to reach the edge of the copper sheet, that part will have dissipated heat into its surroundings, thus it sustains itself this way. It's a matter of physics, trial and error.

 

[KnICS]

Well, if you theoretically were to put the sheet around the inside of the machine, the heat would spread more evenly inside the machine. Of course, turning the backplate into a heatsink would give you a much longer sustained performance without throttling. But, there are copper vapor chamber sheets with liquid inside them that some gaming phones have. Adding these sheets would spread the heat around more easily, and due to the water vapor inside the coper sheet, it would take longer for the entire sheet to become hot. By the time it takes the heat from the die to reach the edge of the copper sheet, that part will have dissipated heat into its surroundings, thus it sustains itself this way. It's a matter of physics, trial and error.

I would not recommend putting a copper sheet or vapor chamber inside the air. 1) there's very little room in there, 2) copper is electrically conductive, and 3) if used wrong vapor chambers can expand and/or leak. This has huge potential to damage almost everything inside there. Silicon-based thermal pads are non-electrically-conductive, so are safe.

 

[KnICS]

Congratulations! You spent $30 on thermal pads, and made your MBA burn your legs off, to save 30 seconds on processing time today. I'm sure it was well worth it.

Seriously, though. I think this mod makes no more sense than wearing your underwear for two days straight just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds placing them in the washer.

Personally, I didn't do it to "save 30 seconds of processing time," but because it's fun to learn about the nuances of thermal design in modern laptops and the MacBook Air is well suited to these experiments. I also enjoy sharing my findings with other curious minds - because this mod may make real sense for many users. Just because something doesn't fit your use case and/or your concept of what "makes sense" doesn't make it a dumb idea.

Not to mention that Apple pays attention to forums like this, and it doesn't hurt for them to see this type of discussion. They've historically erred on the side of of aesthetic design at the sake of performance when it comes to thermal management.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Congratulations! You spent $30 on thermal pads, and made your MBA burn your legs off, to save 30 seconds on processing time today. I'm sure it was well worth it.

Seriously, though. I think this mod makes no more sense than wearing your underwear for two days straight just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds placing

Congratulations! You spent $30 on thermal pads, and made your MBA burn your legs off, to save 30 seconds on processing time today. I'm sure it was well worth it.

Seriously, though. I think this mod makes no more sense than wearing your underwear for two days straight just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds placing them in the washer.

I did the mod as I’m curious about the lack of thermal sponge on the base model. I’d no need to do it, I use my Air for bit of photo editing but mainly web browsing and emails plus a few lightweight tasks. It took me five minutes and cost five quid.

 

[leons]

BTW, I've been quiet here for a while as I've been occupied with another project... but I've continued to expiriment with this mod and with external coolers. One question I have is: does anyone know what the stock Apple thermal pad is? (the black square sponge found on many higher spec Airs). I like this material as it is not sticky at all. I removed mine (it was held on with a thin layer of soft glue and peeled right off) but I cant figure out what it is or where to get more. It's conductivity is low compared to commercial thermal pads, but the fact that it is highly compressible and completely dry is a huge plus. Anyone have any clues? I've scoured the internet looking for it ...

Has anyone ever figured out where to buy the Apple "style" thermal pads?