M1/M2 flickering, ghosting with external display [Merged]

[Drummetto97]

So guys, in the beginning sorry for my orrible english, i force me to don't use any translator to improve my language skill, so, feel free to correct me, i will get any sort of comments, also if you says:"you speak like a drunken chimp".

In secundis (well i need tu use latin lol), i really love this Mac mini (m1 base), but one thing is gonna make me crazy, i have a Benq EL2870U, 4K 27", the color is not so good but this isn't the problem, with this mac i suffer two problems:

1- if i use thunderbolt to HDMI cable the monitor doesn't wake up, it wakes up only if i use the hdmi to hdmi cable
2- i suffer the vertical lines/flickering problem, i make a lot of test and i've installed "monitor control" that helpes me to focus the problem, when it presents i swtich the contrast by dcc/ci (i've tried to put off this options but it haven't helped) and it solves in a moment, but this thing is makes me crazy, i just wan't that all functions well without this tricks.

So for this thread i can assure that my Benq EL2870U is getting problems with m1 mac mini, but is also a perfect monitor for Intel macbook air and Windows Laptop and PS5.

So, i'm studying three options to replace it:

1- Huawei Mateview, i searched a lot in this forum and no one says that have flickering with this monitor
2- Huawei Ultrawide, sorry, i don't remember the exact name, i like the ultra wide form factor but i watched a lot of testimoniances that mac os is not thinked to work well with ultra wide monitors
3- Asus Pro art PA278CV or QV- i like a lot is color accuracy and both are 2k monitors, so mac os will run well without rescale all.

I need to open a new thread or post in other one? If i'm wrong posting here i'm sorry.

Thanks a lot

 

[NegativePress]

I've also noticed the wake from sleep is quite poor, one of my monitors (smaller) one wakes up straight away, my main display takes a good few seconds (5-10)

I did buy an Anker usb-c to HDMI cable to replace my aging random one from Amazon but found it made no difference at all, even a quality HDMI to HDMI had no effect.

It may come to down to make of monitor / Apples implementation (poorly) of monitor support

 

[senttoschool]

This happens with my BenQ 27" sometimes. To fix it, I have to go into Display settings and set the BenQ to use HDR. Then it stops. Unfortunately, macOS does not remember the setting.

 

[NegativePress]

Fair glad you have 1 solution (albeit not ideal)! My Dell has HDR but it has got to be the worst implementation in history, just washes out all the colours and looks horrid

 

[Flaxos]

Personally, I have the same problem on a brand new MacBook Pro 16" M2 Max. I don't understand how it is possible that Apple hasn't solved such a fatal error to this day and I consider it a quite fundamental problem! The problem also appeared on my old MacBook 13" M1 Pro, where I considered it to be a fault on my MSI PSQ321QR monitor. So I bought a new monitor Asus ProArt PA328CGV and the problem started showing up in the same way! So I started to lab and first I replaced the CalDigit TS3 docking station with another piece, but nothing changed. Subsequently, I tried to change the color profiles in the graphics settings, frequency from 60Hz - 144Hz, HDR on/off, but again without effect. Then I skipped the docking station and connected the monitor via USB-C cable directly to the monitor and the problem still persisted. In the end, I used an HDMI cable connected to the new HDMI 2.1 port directly on the new M2 Max 16" laptop and the problem also occurred again. So it is clear that no adapters, cables or various docking stations will help, but that the problem is directly on the graphics unit of M1/M2.

The only thing I noticed is that the problem occurs when there is too much black on the display, so I was forced to switch the MacOS Ventura interface from dark to light theme, which looks absolutely horrible, but in this mode there are not so many problems with ghosting and vertical stripes in the image.

 

[NegativePress]

Personally, I have the same problem on a brand new MacBook Pro 16" M2 Max. I don't understand how it is possible that Apple hasn't solved such a fatal error to this day and I consider it a quite fundamental problem! The problem also appeared on my old MacBook 13" M1 Pro, where I considered it to be a fault on my MSI PSQ321QR monitor. So I bought a new monitor Asus ProArt PA328CGV and the problem started showing up in the same way! So I started to lab and first I replaced the CalDigit TS3 docking station with another piece, but nothing changed. Subsequently, I tried to change the color profiles in the graphics settings, frequency from 60Hz - 144Hz, HDR on/off, but again without effect. Then I skipped the docking station and connected the monitor via USB-C cable directly to the monitor and the problem still persisted. In the end, I used an HDMI cable connected to the new HDMI 2.1 port directly on the new M2 Max 16" laptop and the problem also occurred again. So it is clear that no adapters, cables or various docking stations will help, but that the problem is directly on the graphics unit of M1/M2.

The only thing I noticed is that the problem occurs when there is too much black on the display, so I was forced to switch the MacOS Ventura interface from dark to light theme, which looks absolutely horrible, but in this mode there are not so many problems with ghosting and vertical stripes in the image.

Sorry to hear it's happening to you as well.

You hit the nail on the head that no matter what cable or hub you use the problem still occurs. This is a software (I hope) problem through and through

 

[Drummetto97]

Personally, I have the same problem on a brand new MacBook Pro 16" M2 Max. I don't understand how it is possible that Apple hasn't solved such a fatal error to this day and I consider it a quite fundamental problem! The problem also appeared on my old MacBook 13" M1 Pro, where I considered it to be a fault on my MSI PSQ321QR monitor. So I bought a new monitor Asus ProArt PA328CGV and the problem started showing up in the same way! So I started to lab and first I replaced the CalDigit TS3 docking station with another piece, but nothing changed. Subsequently, I tried to change the color profiles in the graphics settings, frequency from 60Hz - 144Hz, HDR on/off, but again without effect. Then I skipped the docking station and connected the monitor via USB-C cable directly to the monitor and the problem still persisted. In the end, I used an HDMI cable connected to the new HDMI 2.1 port directly on the new M2 Max 16" laptop and the problem also occurred again. So it is clear that no adapters, cables or various docking stations will help, but that the problem is directly on the graphics unit of M1/M2.

The only thing I noticed is that the problem occurs when there is too much black on the display, so I was forced to switch the MacOS Ventura interface from dark to light theme, which looks absolutely horrible, but in this mode there are not so many problems with ghosting and vertical stripes in the image.

Same as me the images, i have Benq EL2870U, i hope that changing monitor with samsung M8 or Mteview 28 will solve this, i’ve never heard about problems with this monitors.

 

[NegativePress]

Same as me the images, i have Benq EL2870U, i hope that changing monitor with samsung M8 or Mteview 28 will solve this, i’ve never heard about problems with this monitors.

Would be good to know, please let us know how you get on!

 

[oz_rkie]

Sorry to hear it's happening to you as well.

You hit the nail on the head that no matter what cable or hub you use the problem still occurs. This is a software (I hope) problem through and through

Well, only Apple engineers know what the actual issue is but so far the evidence overwhelmingly points to it being a hardware problem and not a software problem. If it was a software problem, it would have been fixed by now. The more likely reason that it has not been fixed by now is that it is a fundamental hardware issue with the new m1/m2 (and possibly the upcoming m3) chip design and Apple knows that they cannot fix it, thus being silent and not even acknowledging the issue.

 

[NegativePress]

Yeah you're not wrong there, interesting they couldn't even fix it with M2.

 

[pabloteari]

Interesting. What is the color depth of your Dell monitor? 8-bit or 8-bit + FRC (although it is sometimes labeled as 10-bit, mostly it's not a true 10-bit panel). I am trying to figure out what is the root cause. Since the resolution is not the reason, then maybe the temporal dithering is the culprit. Otherwise, it would be so weird to me that the situations everyone faces are so inconsistent.

From what I've researched it's 8-bit (6-bit + FRC)

by: https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/136d138e

I set it to Color RGB, it improved a lot, but I still see the lines and distortions depending on the colors, as everyone reported here.

 

[cliffordyen]

From what I've researched it's 8-bit (6-bit + FRC)

by: https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/136d138e

I set it to Color RGB, it improved a lot, but I still see the lines and distortions depending on the colors, as everyone reported here.

I think the problem is not whether it's 8-bit or 10-bit, but whether it utilizes FRC (temporal dithering). I didn't expect there is a monitor to mimic 8-bit with native 6-bit + FRC. Most of the monitors nowadays labeled as 10-bit are not native, but 8-bit + FRC. Maybe M1/M2 just can't handle temporal dithering properly.

 

[oz_rkie]

I think the problem is not whether it's 8-bit or 10-bit, but whether it utilizes FRC (temporal dithering). I didn't expect there is a monitor to mimic 8-bit with native 6-bit + FRC. Most of the monitors nowadays labeled as 10-bit are not native, but 8-bit + FRC. Maybe M1/M2 just can't handle temporal dithering properly.

A large majority of consumer displays use FRC. Very few expensive ones or proper professional monitors are true 10bit panels without FRC. Even Apple's own new studio display is 8bit + FRC (https://www.dpreview.com/news/85970...ay-2022-an-excellent-monitor-at-a-steep-price) and we know that the m1/m2 work ok with that display, so it definitely is not an FRC issue.

From that review -

Apple also confirmed this is not a true 10-bit panel. There were several mentions of "over 1 billion colors" during the presentation, but it's an 8-bit panel with temporal dithering

 

[pabloteari]

A large majority of consumer displays use FRC. Very few expensive ones or proper professional monitors are true 10bit panels without FRC. Even Apple's own new studio display is 8bit + FRC (https://www.dpreview.com/news/85970...ay-2022-an-excellent-monitor-at-a-steep-price) and we know that the m1/m2 work ok with that display, so it definitely is not an FRC issue.

From that review -

I think the problem is not whether it's 8-bit or 10-bit, but whether it utilizes FRC (temporal dithering). I didn't expect there is a monitor to mimic 8-bit with native 6-bit + FRC. Most of the monitors nowadays labeled as 10-bit are not native, but 8-bit + FRC. Maybe M1/M2 just can't handle temporal dithering properly.

Another detail that I've mentioned here before, that I tested on a Smart TV MU6300 49” UHD 4K, Samsung. I had no such issues, no distortion or lines, which makes me think this is something that monitors have, and TV builds don't.

Before buying the Apple Thunderbolt a1402, which "solved" my problems, I was considering buying a TV 32, to use it instead of monitors.

 

[cliffordyen]

A large majority of consumer displays use FRC. Very few expensive ones or proper professional monitors are true 10bit panels without FRC. Even Apple's own new studio display is 8bit + FRC (https://www.dpreview.com/news/85970...ay-2022-an-excellent-monitor-at-a-steep-price) and we know that the m1/m2 work ok with that display, so it definitely is not an FRC issue.

From that review -

If that's not FRC, then I really don't understand what's wrong with M1/M2. (Maybe I can simply say I don't understand what's wrong with Apple.) So sad.

 

[stevemiller]

Personally, I have the same problem on a brand new MacBook Pro 16" M2 Max. I don't understand how it is possible that Apple hasn't solved such a fatal error to this day and I consider it a quite fundamental problem! The problem also appeared on my old MacBook 13" M1 Pro, where I considered it to be a fault on my MSI PSQ321QR monitor. So I bought a new monitor Asus ProArt PA328CGV and the problem started showing up in the same way! So I started to lab and first I replaced the CalDigit TS3 docking station with another piece, but nothing changed. Subsequently, I tried to change the color profiles in the graphics settings, frequency from 60Hz - 144Hz, HDR on/off, but again without effect. Then I skipped the docking station and connected the monitor via USB-C cable directly to the monitor and the problem still persisted. In the end, I used an HDMI cable connected to the new HDMI 2.1 port directly on the new M2 Max 16" laptop and the problem also occurred again. So it is clear that no adapters, cables or various docking stations will help, but that the problem is directly on the graphics unit of M1/M2.

The only thing I noticed is that the problem occurs when there is too much black on the display, so I was forced to switch the MacOS Ventura interface from dark to light theme, which looks absolutely horrible, but in this mode there are not so many problems with ghosting and vertical stripes in the image.

i will say this whole external monitor issue is seemingly the one substantial blemish on an otherwise great machine. the fact that it persists into the M2 line is really disheartening.

i also seem to notice it often on darker backgrounds. light mode might help in some cases, but i often see it happening when i have full-screened video, for which there is fundamentally no work around other than heavily limiting what you do on the external display.

its also frustrating to troubleshoot since it seems to happen at random. i'm sure i could hand the machine to apple to keep for a week and it might never exhibit the behaviour. but then i could get flickering daily the week after that. sigh.

 

[oz_rkie]

i will say this whole external monitor issue is seemingly the one substantial blemish on an otherwise great machine

Pretty much this. Great machines otherwise but this issue ruins it for many, certainly was a deal breaker for me.

 

[Flaxos]

I finally found a working solution to this problem on my Asus PA328CGV monitor. After many attempts with data cable replacements etc., I found that in the monitor menu I just need to switch Input Range from AUTO to FULL. Now there is no problem even when I have the refresh rate set to 165Hz and HDR mode on. I hope this helps at least some of the users in this thread.

 

[Zest28]

Pretty much this. Great machines otherwise but this issue ruins it for many, certainly was a deal breaker for me.

Well, this is what Apple is known for. I have hardware equipment that no longer works with Apple computers too. I am forced to have a PC now on the side.

It’s like buying an Android phone and expecting it to work as good as an iPhone with Mac. It is not part of the “Apple ecosystem”.

The Mac is not Windows, which supports every hardware combo you could possibly think off.

I’m not saying it is a good thing, I’m just saying how Apple is. If it not part of the “Apple ecosystem”, there is no telling if it will work 100% as intended.

Hence why I am also a bit skeptical about the new Samsung 5K display. It will probably not work as flawless as the Apple Studio Display since it is not part of the “Apple Ecosystem”.

 

[stevemiller]

Well, this is what Apple is known for. I have hardware equipment that no longer works with Apple computers too. I am forced to have a PC now on the side.

It’s like buying an Android phone and expecting it to work as good as an iPhone with Mac. It is not part of the “Apple ecosystem”.

The Mac is not Windows, which supports every hardware combo you could possibly think off.

I’m not saying it is a good thing, I’m just saying how Apple is. If it not part of the “Apple ecosystem”, there is no telling if it will work 100% as intended.

Hence why I am also a bit skeptical about the new Samsung 5K display. It will probably not work as flawless as the Apple Studio Display since it is not part of the “Apple Ecosystem”.

I’d argue this goes beyond that. External display support shouldn’t be a brand locked feature like airdrop, or iMessage. and this has not been an issue I’ve encountered on any macs prior to the apple silicon transition.

Also apple doesn’t even sell an hdmi monitor my my knowledge. So selling me a MacBook Pro that advertises the return of an hdmi port with the caveat that “you can’t expect it to work” is bad behaviour no matter how you cut it.

To me this is more akin to the butterfly keyboard. There is some sort of faulty design at play here, and despite this thread suggesting it’s not totally isolated, it might also not be common enough to have gotten widespread attention.

Which actually leads me to my next question, has anyone actually attempted a machine swap to see if the issue persists?

 

[Zest28]

I’d argue this goes beyond that. External display support shouldn’t be a brand locked feature like airdrop, or iMessage. and this has not been an issue I’ve encountered on any macs prior to the apple silicon transition.

Also apple doesn’t even sell an hdmi monitor my my knowledge. So selling me a MacBook Pro that advertises the return of an hdmi port with the caveat that “you can’t expect it to work” is bad behaviour no matter how you cut it.

To me this is more akin to the butterfly keyboard. There is some sort of faulty design at play here, and despite this thread suggesting it’s not totally isolated, it might also not be common enough to have gotten widespread attention.

Which actually leads me to my next question, has anyone actually attempted a machine swap to see if the issue persists?

Well, it's not brand locked. The HMDI and USB-C port do work with my non-Apple 4K external displays.

It's simply that you are at the mercy of the PC display manufacturer that they tested the display with Mac and made sure their implementation is compatible with Mac. Because it will not work out of the box like Windows, as Windows can support everything from their side.

So it's a gamble when you buy something outside of the "Apple Ecosystem". It might not "just works".

 

[stevemiller]

Well, it's not brand locked. The HMDI and USB-C port do work with my non-Apple 4K external displays.

It's simply that you are at the mercy of the PC display manufacturer that they tested the display with Mac and made sure their implementation is compatible with Mac. Because it will not work out of the box like Windows, as Windows can support everything from their side.

So it's a gamble when you buy something outside of the "Apple Ecosystem". It might not "just works".

we're going to have to agree to disagree. i don't think this isn't some obscure manufacturer failing to properly support a display standard. something is broken here, and i'm more inclined to believe its on apple's side, since i never once ran into external display issues on the numerous macs and display combos i've used in the past, and suddenly when they switched to apple silicon, we are hearing numerous reports.

 

[oz_rkie]

Which actually leads me to my next question, has anyone actually attempted a machine swap to see if the issue persists?

Plenty of people as far as I know (including me). Well for me it wasn't a machine swap rather that I had bought two m1 macbook airs. Both had the same issue. Although if you read through this thread, there are examples of people who have gotten their m1 machines swapped for a new one (returned and bought new etc) and had the same issue.

Well, it's not brand locked. The HMDI and USB-C port do work with my non-Apple 4K external displays.

It's simply that you are at the mercy of the PC display manufacturer that they tested the display with Mac and made sure their implementation is compatible with Mac. Because it will not work out of the box like Windows, as Windows can support everything from their side.

So it's a gamble when you buy something outside of the "Apple Ecosystem". It might not "just works".

This is just absurd reasoning. An external monitor is not some niche accessory that you need to worry about ecosystem lock in etc. External monitors have been around for several decades. Furthermore, if it was just one or two manufacturers where this problem was manifesting, the blame could be argued to be on the display manufacturer side. But, the issue happens arbitrarily on a wide variety of display manufacturer and a wide variety of monitor models and to add to this, the issue can happen on any connection type, direct hdmi, direct usb-c dp, direct tb connection etc. Just this forum thread alone is full of examples of people trying literally everything, expensive cables, expensive docks, trying all input types, trying weird hacks with color profiles and whatnot, even buying multiple new different monitors etc.

The only commonality between the numerous complaints here and in other places regarding this issue is apple silicon (m1/m2), nothing else. Even apple's own intel based machines work flawlessly with the same monitors that the m1/m2 misbehave with. Clearly, the fault in this case is with m1/m2 (and who knows probably m3 as well if its a hardware design fault that might not be corrected in time).

 

[Zest28]

Plenty of people as far as I know (including me). Well for me it wasn't a machine swap rather that I had bought two m1 macbook airs. Both had the same issue. Although if you read through this thread, there are examples of people who have gotten their m1 machines swapped for a new one (returned and bought new etc) and had the same issue.


This is just absurd reasoning. An external monitor is not some niche accessory that you need to worry about ecosystem lock in etc. External monitors have been around for several decades. Furthermore, if it was just one or two manufacturers where this problem was manifesting, the blame could be argued to be on the display manufacturer side. But, the issue happens arbitrarily on a wide variety of display manufacturer and a wide variety of monitor models and to add to this, the issue can happen on any connection type, direct hdmi, direct usb-c dp, direct tb connection etc. Just this forum thread alone is full of examples of people trying literally everything, expensive cables, expensive docks, trying all input types, trying weird hacks with color profiles and whatnot, even buying multiple new different monitors etc.

The only commonality between the numerous complaints here and in other places regarding this issue is apple silicon (m1/m2), nothing else. Even apple's own intel based machines work flawlessly with the same monitors that the m1/m2 misbehave with. Clearly, the fault in this case is with m1/m2 (and who knows probably m3 as well if its a hardware design fault that might not be corrected in time).

I don't have issues on my side with non-Apple external monitors. PC display manufacturers simply have to make displays that have the specs that is compatible with Mac. Mac's no longer use the same hardware as PC's as it's now based off the iPhone chip.

If Mac was broken, then no external monitors would work, which is not the case.

But this is the gamble that you take if you buy outside of the "Apple ecosystem", you don't know if it will work 100% with Mac as PC display manufacturer didn't design / test for Mac in mind.

 

[oz_rkie]

Your reasoning is flawed on so many levels and no offense but this apple (or any company) fanboyism is a big factor in why so many companies get away with disgusting behaviour like this. Any company should be held to account for anti consumer practices (such as extreme and artifical vendor lock in).

I don't have issues on my side with non-Apple external monitors

You don't. Plenty of other users do have issues with 'many' varied monitor models from many 'varied' manufacturers.

If Mac was broken, then no external monitors would work, which is not the case.

A product can be broken if it causes standard accessories and peripherals to malfunction. It is not required that an external monitor should not work at all before you can deem a mac m1/m2 to be 'broken'. It is quite clear from this thread alone that the m1/m2 causes major issues with many displays.

But this is the gamble that you take if you buy outside of the "Apple ecosystem", you don't know if it will work 100% with Mac as PC display manufacturer didn't design / test for Mac in mind.

Even if you try (and fail) to make the argument that the PC display manufacturer's are at fault here, which again - external montiros have been around forever, it is upto Apple to ensure that their customers are aware of potential issues. If they can't make hardware that works with 'existing' external monitors correctly, they should explicitly warn their users to NOT buy external monitors.

There are numerous cases where users that have had intel mac machines and were happily using their existing external monitors with intel mac machines, upgraded to m1/m2 with the very valid expectation that their existing flawlessly working external monitor would also work with the newly purchased m1/m2 based machine only to discover that this is not the case.

What an absurd notion that any existing user would have to throw away (in many cases quite expensive) any existing monitor they had that was working flawlessly with their intel mac just because it did not win the m1/m2 compatibility gamble. Utter non sense.