M1 Mac External Display - Fuzzy Fonts & Colors - YPBPR vs RGB

[0906742]

I think it is not just that file that needs to be edited since I found the same file in ByHost folder in my user preferences. File name had some long letter+numbers too and in that file was from info, so it does not just copy here what you change in preferences like in the guide.

Also does others see Bitdepth being 10 default in the section where you edit? Mine had and I changed it to 8 to make sure I get picture after reboot.

Even editing one file as in guide seems to work some but I think it is this ByHost folder that it uses the last when logging in, just not sure why editing another file works most of the time too.

Also not sure how to edit plist so that file size does not decrease considerably even nothing seems to be missing. There must be some hidden "watermark" or something that gets thrown away when editing and translating file between xml and binary. But obviously OS is generating that file automatically and replace its contents every time you change some screen settings, so I guess it goes back to right format automatically BUT it wipes away all your changes too.

 

[0906742]

OK, I think I finally got hang of how this all works.
It is actually the plist file in user preferences ByHost folder where it just has some UUID like string in the file name too.
So when you log in it _usually_ uses the settings in this file. I said usually as that seemed to be interesting how it works.

Anyway, I found out that changing the one in ByHost made my U2518D always go to RGB mode even if it boots up in YPbPr mode when you are in login window, and right after typing password and loading desktop it goes to RGB!!

So I in the end edited the file in both locations so it is always RGB mode in login screen too.

Also in my U2518D this is tricky as this file obviously include THREE different modes for this display and it is purely random which one it uses, so this explain why it worked like 50% of my attempts in RGB by default before I did any changes. Also obviously all 3 modes have their own preferences, this shows up that when I changed wallpaper in RGB mode and if it happened to next time boot in YPbPr mode wallpaper was back to default but if I did not change it and just restarted my machine again and again so that it went eventually in RGB mode the wallpaper was again the one I changed myself. So this way I see in which of the 3 modes it started and also that is it RGB or YPbPr even without checking monitor menu!
So now in the end when I edited these two plist files, I still can see when ever it starts in my edited mode, THE WALLPAPER is still the default one but now it goes to RGB mode!!!!
Also when both files are edited I can play with font smoothing settings and it stays is RGB. What I cannot touch is like rotate screen in display settings as that is when it recreate generic all user plist file, but still the one in my ByHost stays the one I edited and makes it go RGB mode after login. So I ended up keeping both edited files and not to touch display settings. Again this is based on what I tested and I have no idea if this is the right way to do this.

 

[DekuBleep]

Would this fuzzy font issue affect the Dell u4320q connected to an M1 MBP13 via USBC?

 

[patsio]

After updating to 11.4 a few days ago, i saw for the 1st time RGB mode since December on my mac mini M1, Dell U2721DE. Today, i rebooted mac mini and YPBPR is back again! I noticed in Display Preferences, now there are 2 color profiles for the same monitor, is that normal?! Look at the screenshot the differences.

 

[seadragon]

After updating to 11.4 a few days ago, i saw for the 1st time RGB mode since December on my mac mini M1, Dell U2721DE. Today, i rebooted mac mini and YPBPR is back again! I noticed in Display Preferences, now there are 2 color profiles for the same monitor, is that normal?! Look at the screenshot the differences.
View attachment 1784146

I’ve observed the exact same thing. My monitor is a Dell S3220DGF.

 

[0906742]

After updating to 11.4 a few days ago, i saw for the 1st time RGB mode since December on my mac mini M1, Dell U2721DE. Today, i rebooted mac mini and YPBPR is back again! I noticed in Display Preferences, now there are 2 color profiles for the same monitor, is that normal?! Look at the screenshot the differences.

Mine was the same, except now after I edited plist file that SD 170... disappeared and was replaced by third U2518D. However now mine goes always in RGB mode after modifying plist. I think yours is the same as mine was that if you keep restarting or power down both monitor and machine enough many times it goes to RGB. It was like flipping a coin which mode it went until plist editing for me. Still there are three profiles but the one it chooses automatically is the right one, I tested with test images and one of these had different wrong gamma, it was easy to notice using test patters like the ones in Lagom LCD test.

I think the left one in your photo is the correct when it is in RGB mode.

 

[0906742]

Would this fuzzy font issue affect the Dell u4320q connected to an M1 MBP13 via USBC?

I don't think fuzzy fonts affect anything else but low res monitors without HiDPI support, so as long as you don't run yours at native res. (3840x2160) I think you are fine.

 

[xraydoc]

Well, after almost a month of running in RGB mode, my display is back in YPbPr. Nothing changed otherwise.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I give up.

Apple clearly has no interest in changing this behavior. I guess I'll revisit the issue when I decide to upgrade my monitor.

 

[0906742]

Well, after almost a month of running in RGB mode, my display is back in YPbPr. Nothing changed otherwise.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I give up.

You tested plist tweak too?

 

[seadragon]

Why is it a bad thing to use YPbPr? I don’t get it.

 

[0906742]

Why is it a bad thing to use YPbPr? I don’t get it.

It depends. Fonts look the same and they are equally fuzzy either mode but gamma was weird in YPbPr mode in my U2518D. But all this was easy to fix and mine stays in RGB after that.

 

[x3sphere]

11.4 broke RGB for me on my LG 38GL950G, but I followed the instructions here and it works again: https://gist.github.com/adaugherity/7435890#gistcomment-3761736

After modifying com.apple.windowserver.displays.plist, I also had to remove the duplicate of the file that was present in /Users/MY_USERNAME/Library/Preferences/ByHost

Then rebooted, and RGB works perfectly now.

 

[Sarpanch]

OK, I think I finally got hang of how this all works.
It is actually the plist file in user preferences ByHost folder where it just has some UUID like string in the file name too.
So when you log in it _usually_ uses the settings in this file. I said usually as that seemed to be interesting how it works.

Anyway, I found out that changing the one in ByHost made my U2518D always go to RGB mode even if it boots up in YPbPr mode when you are in login window, and right after typing password and loading desktop it goes to RGB!!

So I in the end edited the file in both locations so it is always RGB mode in login screen too.

Also in my U2518D this is tricky as this file obviously include THREE different modes for this display and it is purely random which one it uses, so this explain why it worked like 50% of my attempts in RGB by default before I did any changes. Also obviously all 3 modes have their own preferences, this shows up that when I changed wallpaper in RGB mode and if it happened to next time boot in YPbPr mode wallpaper was back to default but if I did not change it and just restarted my machine again and again so that it went eventually in RGB mode the wallpaper was again the one I changed myself. So this way I see in which of the 3 modes it started and also that is it RGB or YPbPr even without checking monitor menu!
So now in the end when I edited these two plist files, I still can see when ever it starts in my edited mode, THE WALLPAPER is still the default one but now it goes to RGB mode!!!!
Also when both files are edited I can play with font smoothing settings and it stays is RGB. What I cannot touch is like rotate screen in display settings as that is when it recreate generic all user plist file, but still the one in my ByHost stays the one I edited and makes it go RGB mode after login. So I ended up keeping both edited files and not to touch display settings. Again this is based on what I tested and I have no idea if this is the right way to do this.

So, I removed the Display specific plist from User Library Preferences (~/Library/…..) and now the monitor maintains RGB mode even after waking from sleep.

To summarize, I kept the modified plist file in /Library/Preferences folder only.

A user on GitHub has developed an initial version of a script based on GetVladimir’s analysis and steps which might help simplify the RGB fix on M1 Macs.

Here is the link for anyone interested

https://gist.github.com/adaugherity/7435890#gistcomment-3763117

 

[0906742]

To summarize, I kept the modified plist file in /Library/Preferences folder only.

I kept both and modified them but I also tested with one and it worked. Anyway one in ByHost folder is user specific.

 

[0906742]

Not sure if other have the same but in my case I think the issue where before tweaked plist my M1 Mini was randomly selecting either RGB or YPbPr mode came from that both plist files have THREE displays with bit different UUID. So for some reason M1 Mini sees my display three different ways even nothing is changed between boot (I used USB-C to DP cable). In plist only 1 of the 3 displays were configured as YPbPr and this one I edited myself. Also that 1 YPbPr was using 10 bit mode, so I adjusted it to 8 bit along with RGB setting it to RGB, so I basically checked other 2 and used the identical settings.

 

[xraydoc]

You tested plist tweak too?

Just tried it. Didn't work.

 

[0906742]

Just tried it. Didn't work.

Interesting. Did you check both locations and checked the plist file for possible multiple monitors listed there? Like I said my plist had my monitor defined under 3 different UUID (which suggests M1 Mini has great difficulty to detect monitor correctly I guess).

After tweaking my plist files mine goes to RGB mode always, no matter how I power it up, restart machine, log out or sleep. Before tweaks mine was like flipping a coin which mode it went, usually never twice in a row to RGB mode. Now it is rock solid and I still have different wallpaper I set back in a day in YPbPr mode so even today, I can still see it sometimes enter this mode BUT now it is always RGB because of tweaked plist.

 

[xraydoc]

Interesting. Did you check both locations and checked the plist file for possible multiple monitors listed there? Like I said my plist had my monitor defined under 3 different UUID (which suggests M1 Mini has great difficulty to detect monitor correctly I guess).

After tweaking my plist files mine goes to RGB mode always, no matter how I power it up, restart machine, log out or sleep. Before tweaks mine was like flipping a coin which mode it went, usually never twice in a row to RGB mode. Now it is rock solid and I still have different wallpaper I set back in a day in YPbPr mode so even today, I can still see it sometimes enter this mode BUT now it is always RGB because of tweaked plist.

I was just about to post....

Turns out I did have a duplicate in ~/Library/Preferences/ByHost
Removed it, redid the edits and rebooted. Seems to be back in RGB. So far so good on first boot back up.

The Displays control panel's Color setting did default back to the colorspace named for the monitor; I much prefer the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 setting (looks way better to me). I set it to that, so we'll have to see if the RGB display mode will survive reboots and/or docking/undocking my MacBook Air from my my monitor & Thunderbolt hub. It did for a month, so we'll have to see. I also occasionally like to change the HiDPI mode from 'looks like' 3008x1692 to 'looks like' 2560x1440 and back. Again, we'll have to see if RGB continues to survives these changes.

Getting annoyed, to be honest, that my Windows 10 desktop PC has been more reliable than Big Sur has. macOS 12 better be damned phenomenal.

 

[0906742]

I was just about to post....

Turns out I did have a duplicate in ~/Library/Preferences/ByHost
Removed it, redid the edits and rebooted. Seems to be back in RGB. So far so good on first boot back up.

Yeah, that's what I though was the problem. I left both files in use but edited them for RGB. Seemed to work by deleting one in ByHost folder too.

The Displays control panel's Color setting did default back to the colorspace named for the monitor; I much prefer the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 setting (looks way better to me).

I played with those too but it was very obvious based on tests like Lagom LCD test page that one it select automatically under my monitor model name was the correct one. Others introduced obvious banding in tests and gamma was obviously altered wrong way, but I see it is matter of taste what gamma each prefer but the one it select automatically is 2.2, others were wrong for my U2518D.

I set it to that, so we'll have to see if the RGB display mode will survive reboots and/or docking/undocking my MacBook Air from my my monitor & Thunderbolt hub. It did for a month, so we'll have to see. I also occasionally like to change the HiDPI mode from 'looks like' 3008x1692 to 'looks like' 2560x1440 and back. Again, we'll have to see if RGB continues to survives these changes.

It is likely it restore plist to original format when playing with screen settings. I noticed you can change color profile setting but others may cause it to change back. But it is easy to fix and just copy edited plist back and reboot.

Getting annoyed, to be honest, that my Windows 10 desktop PC has been more reliable than Big Sur has. macOS 12 better be damned phenomenal.

Yeah, seems Windows is still light years ahead with monitor support. I never had issues like this with Windows, plus fonts in Windows look good in every monitor running at native resolution.

 

[xraydoc]

I played with those too but it was very obvious based on tests like Lagom LCD test page that one it select automatically under my monitor model name was the correct one. Others introduced obvious banding in tests and gamma was obviously altered wrong way, but I see it is matter of taste what gamma each prefer but the one it select automatically is 2.2, others were wrong for my U2518D.

Fortunately no banding. Colors are a bit more saturated with the sRBG setting than with the auto-selected one. I don't have a colorimeter, so I have no way of knowing which is "truth", but the sRGB setting on my UP3216Q looks more similar to the MBA's built-in display. Otherwise pretty much all the test images remain the same.

 

[0906742]

Fortunately no banding. Colors are a bit more saturated with the sRBG setting than with the auto-selected one. I don't have a colorimeter, so I have no way of knowing which is "truth", but the sRGB setting on my UP3216Q looks more similar to the MBA's built-in display. Otherwise pretty much all the test images remain the same.

Did you check with test patterns that gamma is 2.2? I noticed the same thing that other than auto-selected one appeared more saturated, a bit darker colors but that was because gamma was higher than 2.2, it was more like 2.3 - 2.4.

 

[scgf]

Yeah, seems Windows is still light years ahead with monitor support. I never had issues like this with Windows, plus fonts in Windows look good in every monitor running at native resolution.

I beg to differ! I use a 24" 4K monitor in Windows at a resolution which doesn't result in tiny fonts and icons - 2048x1152 in my case. Some windows do not respond to the chosen resolution and are rendered like you were running at a native 4K resolution, so the fonts and icons are really tiny. You need to go through compatibility mode for each app to adjust the resolution to match the rest of the screen. Then when your monitor wakes from sleep you will find windows have been defaulted back to a small size, not how they were when the display went to sleep - you have to run a utility to restore everything to how you arranged it. If you're lucky your display might wake when you click a mouse button or tap a key on your keyboard. On most occasions this doesn't happen and you have to turn off the computer and restart.

My computer had an Intel MB and i5 CPU. My monitor is an LG - so nothing esoteric. With my M1 Mac Mini I get none of these issues.

I was in contact with Intel support and they were useless - despite other similar issues from many people online. In the end they wanted me to ship my whole setup to them so they could investigate. As if I would have done that! I declined and bought a Mac.

 

[Martin_tintin]

What is wrong with using YPbPr?

There's nothing wrong if you do not do calibration to your monitors.
In display cal, the software recognize your monitor as a "TV"

 

[0906742]

I beg to differ! I use a 24" 4K monitor in Windows at a resolution which doesn't result in tiny fonts and icons - 2048x1152 in my case. Some windows do not respond to the chosen resolution and are rendered like you were running at a native 4K resolution, so the fonts and icons are really tiny. You need to go through compatibility mode for each app to adjust the resolution to match the rest of the screen. Then when your monitor wakes from sleep you will find windows have been defaulted back to a small size, not how they were when the display went to sleep - you have to run a utility to restore everything to how you arranged it. If you're lucky your display might wake when you click a mouse button or tap a key on your keyboard. On most occasions this doesn't happen and you have to turn off the computer and restart.

My computer had an Intel MB and i5 CPU. My monitor is an LG - so nothing esoteric. With my M1 Mac Mini I get none of these issues.

I was in contact with Intel support and they were useless - despite other similar issues from many people online. In the end they wanted me to ship my whole setup to them so they could investigate. As if I would have done that! I declined and bought a Mac.

Sorry I was a bit vague but I was referring to Windows working perfectly at panel native resolution, and in this case especially with monitors sized so that you can actually still have well readable fonts in size (like my U2518D 2K 25" monitor). MacOS simply seem to hate 2K monitor at native resolution unlike Windows looks perfect. And I'm not sure it would be any different in MacOS with even 4K monitor, if you had big enough screen so that you could run it at full 3840x2160 instead of HiDPI???

 

[DennisdeWit]

I did the plist trick and my AOC and Dell both look even better! Very happy!