So in summary, is there actually a monitor/cable setup apart from the LG ultra fine (which is ridiculously ugly) where you can actually get sharp text from the M1 Mac mini? ?
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M1 Mac External Display - Fuzzy Fonts & Colors - YPBPR vs RGB
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Don’t want to sound like a broken record but any 4K or 5K or 5K2K screen with any of available HiDPI mode will result in sharp text and UI elements.
I sit quite close, about 2 feet. I love the amount of screen that I get and it gives a great image quality at 4K60 over DisplayPort with nice blacks as it’s IPS. I use it without the stand resting on some brackets I made at the back of my desk.
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Interesting. Fonts do not look weird fuzzy and bold as they do in 2560x1440 monitor running native? If so I wonder why is that if no scaling is used in 4K monitor I find it hard to understand how fonts would be any different then than in some lower resolution monitor running native resolution.
I just installed official MacOS 11.4 but I did not see any change in random RGB or YPbPr mode, it still boots to either mode and after reboot or few goes eventually to RGB mode, just as it was with 11.3.1.
Do fonts look with 3008x1692 scaling as good as lower scaling like 2560x1440 or 1920x1080?
- Not much difference in text clarity at ‘looks like’ 1080p or 1440p at all. All scaling settings looked really nice on 27” 4k monitor. I even tried a higher resolution scaling option which looked fine but text was quite small. Found 1440p to be the sweet spot.
- My work Windows Laptop had no issues driving at 150% scaling (24GB RAM with Intel UHD 620 graphics)
- Flickering issue appears to be impacting all monitors. The linked thread has examples of not only flickering but image retention as well (Dell U2720Q)
If you are able to order a monitor, test and return without any issues, that would be your best option. If not, probably best to visit a tech store and try out different monitors.
As for Dell U2518D, I have finally been able to make it work in RGB mode after 11.3.1 update and using a USB-C to DP cable (uni). Sometimes, it works in RGB mode in clamshell mode, while sometimes the laptop screen has to be on for RGB mode. It’s inconsistent but colors do look better in RGB.
Just updated M1 Air to MacOS 11.4 (stable, not beta) and the Dell P2721Q is in RGB mode without any tinkering. Practically no difference with YPbPr at least for this particular monitor, but the peace of mind is there since it doesn't have displayHDR options like U2720Q to trick macOS into RGB. The only nitpick I have is non-display related - sometimes my usb external devices plugged in don't work unless I power off the monitor, the power plug then power on again.
EDIT: There is a small difference between YPbPr and RGB. In YPbPr I had to reduce R/G slightly using a custom preset as my white point on Word/websites was a bit too yellow compared to the Air with true tone off. In RGB I can use the standard colour preset out of the box. Happy it's fixed.
EDIT 2: In clamshell mode it goes back to YPbPr but white point seems unchanged from RGB mode this time.
EDIT: There is a small difference between YPbPr and RGB. In YPbPr I had to reduce R/G slightly using a custom preset as my white point on Word/websites was a bit too yellow compared to the Air with true tone off. In RGB I can use the standard colour preset out of the box. Happy it's fixed.
EDIT 2: In clamshell mode it goes back to YPbPr but white point seems unchanged from RGB mode this time.
Personally looks fine, any scaling option is still better than native QHD like the U2520D I demoed in store but ymmv. I personally use 1440p scaling for my viewing distance/setup.
U2720Q is good if you can get it on discount, unfortunately no chance where I am. I don't have a Windows machine to test right now but I believe Windows should have less issues (I think Sarpanch has confirmed above). Apple still "thinks" it is doing 2x scaling, in the system it treats the monitor as a 5k panel for a 1440p retina/hidpi output. See below:I considered too P2721Q but I think I want P3 monitor so probably end up getting U2720Q. I checked price history and saw it has been sold few times close to the price what that other model is currently, so hopefully that happens again soon.
Can you comment how fonts look in P2721Q when you select 2560x1440 looks like resolution? Is it much worse than 1920x1080 looks like resolution which would be the best as 2x scaling instead of 1.5x scaling at 2560x1440?
Can you see any difference in fonts between the two looks like resolutions? Does it still look like what you see in Apple build in displays?
Also do you have Windows machine connected to same monitor? I have two Windows PC I need to connect also and I'm not sure how Windows 10 will look like when using 3840x2160 with 150% font scaling that would equal to 2560x1440 fonts... This is hard choice since Windows 10 currently has excellent fonts with my U2518D running at native 2560x1440, so probably quite a big tradeoff coming from that when using 4K monitor.
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Updated to 11.5 Beta and my option to set refresh rate is gone, but - The Pannel is at 4k 120 RGB444 default every time. ASUS PG27UQ Displayport to USB-C cable.
On 11.3 I could change refresh rate and resolution but it was sometimes YcR whatever and looked off. Everything looks great now!
On 11.3 I could change refresh rate and resolution but it was sometimes YcR whatever and looked off. Everything looks great now!
I think it is not possible anymore, and I don't think that would have allowed to use full resolution anyway, so you would have to use something under native resolution. I don't think myself I could go back anything less that 2560x1440 real estate for desktop. I guess we are forced to get 4K or 5K monitor to get HiDPI with decent fonts, or just suffer from rough fonts with 2560x1440 2K/QHD panels.
I can confirm 11.4 changed nothing when connecting my Macbook M1 to my Dell Ultrasharp U3419W - still YPbPr via USB-C.
One question: does anyone really see a difference between YPbPr and RGB? Or is this just some sort of nerd discussion?
One question: does anyone really see a difference between YPbPr and RGB? Or is this just some sort of nerd discussion?
Good to hear that fonts look good all scaled resolutions. I'm used to my 25" 2560x1440 monitor but I guess with 27" 3008x1692 would make fonts too small, but that would be nice desktop "real estate" for sure.
I got older UHD 530 graphics but I checked it should support 3840x2160@60Hz using DP 1.2, so I guess it would work for me too. Not doing much GPU intensive tasks with it but I don't want to see lag in browser or office programs and videos.
Flickering does not sound nice, if it is a "feature" and not possible to avoid, neither I'm not too keen to see image retention either. My current U2518D never had either of these problems.
My U2518D with M1 Mini works exactly the same way with 11.4 as it did with 11.3.1. It is pure luck which mode it goes when I power it on. Just today it went right away to RGB but usually first power on is YPbPr and then just restart makes it go RGB, but often need more tricks (full power down both Mini and monitor and then the same procedure again).
Yeah, I also see colors being a bit different in YPbPr mode with my U2518D even the fonts look as "good" (=meaning bad) in both modes.
I wonder what side effect this scaling does for the whole image? If I got it right it actually first renders whole desktop at 5120x2880 and then downscales it to 2560x1440 and then upscale it to panel native 3840x2160 4K resolution.
I find it hard to believe that could be done without introducing all kinds of scaling errors everywhere, even I understand that is the way they can make fonts appear nice and smooth.
I know with 5K panel that is not an issue when they are just doing 2x scaling. With 4K panels you would be stuck with 1920x1080 looks like desktop if you want the same.
I’m a little confused here… Does the fuzzy text apply to built-in displays as well?
We have a whole bunch of 1080p iMacs at work (they still sell them sadly), some non-retina MacBook Airs, and even some 2012 non-retina MBPs. They all run either Catalina or Big Sur, but I’ve never had an employee mention anything about the screens being blurry or have noticed anything myself.
We have a whole bunch of 1080p iMacs at work (they still sell them sadly), some non-retina MacBook Airs, and even some 2012 non-retina MBPs. They all run either Catalina or Big Sur, but I’ve never had an employee mention anything about the screens being blurry or have noticed anything myself.
I just upgraded to 11.4. I have an admittedly fairly old Dell U2715H monitor connection via HDMI to my M1 Mac mini.
Fonts are still not great when compared to my Windows laptop. The Mac is still not sending RGB.
Am I missing something here? I don't really fancy spending £1k on a new monitor simply because my pretty much brand new Mac can't give me the same or better experience than my rubbish work Dell laptop that's 5 years old.
Fonts are still not great when compared to my Windows laptop. The Mac is still not sending RGB.
Am I missing something here? I don't really fancy spending £1k on a new monitor simply because my pretty much brand new Mac can't give me the same or better experience than my rubbish work Dell laptop that's 5 years old.
Did you do anything in particular? I am on 11.4 (not beta) and still not getting RGB. Thanks!
No, but it’s broken again in 11.4, or whatever the new Big Sur version from yesterday is.
I’ve given up caring, as they both look exactly the same.
Made this account to post this here for those attempting to get dual HDMI monitors in RGB mode to work. In my case, with Big Sur 11.4, my directly plugged HDMI monitor would connect as RGB, however any second monitor using a USB-C converter or cable to HDMI or Display Port would YPbPr mode. I tried several adapters including well trusted brands like Anker.
I then found a very cheaply made usb-c to hdmi adapter (very plastic, careful it can fall apart) that gives me full RGB on Mac Mini M1 with usb-c/thunderbolt port: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PCXD9S8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My guess is this adapter is so basic, it's telling the Mac it only has an RGB option available.
I have restarted at least a dozen times, and I use an HDMI switch with a Windows machine that I'm jumping back and forth from, so I've confirmed this RGB mode is sticking on my secondary monitor. My monitor models are a pair of LG 32GK850F-B
They also have a usb-c to displayport adapter in that amazon link that may be worth a try, though I can not confirm that one. I'm just happy with my Mac Mini M1 Dual Monitor 1440p 120hz in RGB via HDMI.
I then found a very cheaply made usb-c to hdmi adapter (very plastic, careful it can fall apart) that gives me full RGB on Mac Mini M1 with usb-c/thunderbolt port: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PCXD9S8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My guess is this adapter is so basic, it's telling the Mac it only has an RGB option available.
I have restarted at least a dozen times, and I use an HDMI switch with a Windows machine that I'm jumping back and forth from, so I've confirmed this RGB mode is sticking on my secondary monitor. My monitor models are a pair of LG 32GK850F-B
They also have a usb-c to displayport adapter in that amazon link that may be worth a try, though I can not confirm that one. I'm just happy with my Mac Mini M1 Dual Monitor 1440p 120hz in RGB via HDMI.
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My P2721Q has been consistently in RGB mode so far. I did a factory reinstall of 11.3.1 before updating to 11.4, not sure if it affected anything. I did that anyway because I had some vpn/keychain issues that I wanted to sort out.
For the scaling I think you don't have to worry. My non-technical explanation is that (I also don't know how best to explain this, sorry!) the scaling step is only from 2880p to 2160p; ignore the 1440p since that is just HiDPI (1440x2=2880). An analogy is my built in MacBook Air 1600p display in my screenshot earlier - by default it generates 1800p output which is a HiDPI version of 900p (900x2=1800) and looks fine.
Hi all,
Long time Windows user here. Switched to M1 MBA after watching most of the reviews and how it handles everyday tasks compared to Windows counterparts.
After scrolling thorough 17 pages of this post, and all the pages https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-in-rgb-color-mode-with-mac-mini-m1.2272978/
Here are my observations in 2 different Scenarios
MacOS Version: Big Sur 11.4
Scenario 1
Monitor HP-L2475W with inbuilt DVI, VGA, HDMI, DP.
Monitor works flawlessly with windows laptop (work laptop)
Connected to M1 MBA with type c to HDMI. Monitor is running on native resolution (1920 x 1200). Color is way off, text is blurred af. Thats when I start researching and installing RDM or SwitchRes X nothing works. ( I am assuming this is due to YPRPB Signal compared to RGB although in the system information the monitor shows space as RGB)
I grab a DVI to HDMI adapter from Walmart, Plug the M1 MBA via Type C dongle-HDMI-DVI to the monitor, I see a contrasting difference, the color looks good , the text is okay but still hazy but way better than before.
Take my friends M1 MBA and replicate. Stark difference when connected via DVI adapter.
Now to my surprise, my original type c to HDMI cable also produced the same result as the DVI adapter but was unable to replicate with type c to HDMI cable on my friends M1 MBA.
Conclusion for Scenario 1 I think using the DVI adapter , made my MBA think that I connected a monitor instead of a TV. I don't know how to make the hazy/blurry text to crisp on this MBA connected to external monitor.
Scenario 2
Monitor AOC Q27V3 2K display
Dock Dell WD 15 https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/dell-dock-wd15/docs
This dock has USB-C power pass through. The dock is connected to the monitor via HDMI.
At first, there was no signal to the monitor power cycled the dock, it got the signal. Running native display but again blurry/Fuzzy text. tried Switch Res X no avail.
I had least amount of time with this setup , will have the set up again next week. I dont know if Type C to DP adapter would fix this issue or I am in the same boat as people with 2K displays?
Conclusion for Scenario 2 Will try to play around with more settings in the monitor when I have this setup back next week. After going this thread, looks like my chances are bleak
I don't understand why is it so difficult for Apple to make such a simple thing so complicated?
While windows does this flawlessly and has scaling to 125 % option inbuilt, Apple makes it difficult for its new users. They are producing a very good hardware but failing to address simple things.
I hope these observations might help someone. Thoughts ?
Long time Windows user here. Switched to M1 MBA after watching most of the reviews and how it handles everyday tasks compared to Windows counterparts.
After scrolling thorough 17 pages of this post, and all the pages https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-in-rgb-color-mode-with-mac-mini-m1.2272978/
Here are my observations in 2 different Scenarios
MacOS Version: Big Sur 11.4
Scenario 1
Monitor HP-L2475W with inbuilt DVI, VGA, HDMI, DP.
Monitor works flawlessly with windows laptop (work laptop)
Connected to M1 MBA with type c to HDMI. Monitor is running on native resolution (1920 x 1200). Color is way off, text is blurred af. Thats when I start researching and installing RDM or SwitchRes X nothing works. ( I am assuming this is due to YPRPB Signal compared to RGB although in the system information the monitor shows space as RGB)
I grab a DVI to HDMI adapter from Walmart, Plug the M1 MBA via Type C dongle-HDMI-DVI to the monitor, I see a contrasting difference, the color looks good , the text is okay but still hazy but way better than before.
Take my friends M1 MBA and replicate. Stark difference when connected via DVI adapter.
Now to my surprise, my original type c to HDMI cable also produced the same result as the DVI adapter but was unable to replicate with type c to HDMI cable on my friends M1 MBA.
Conclusion for Scenario 1 I think using the DVI adapter , made my MBA think that I connected a monitor instead of a TV. I don't know how to make the hazy/blurry text to crisp on this MBA connected to external monitor.
Scenario 2
Monitor AOC Q27V3 2K display
Dock Dell WD 15 https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/dell-dock-wd15/docs
This dock has USB-C power pass through. The dock is connected to the monitor via HDMI.
At first, there was no signal to the monitor power cycled the dock, it got the signal. Running native display but again blurry/Fuzzy text. tried Switch Res X no avail.
I had least amount of time with this setup , will have the set up again next week. I dont know if Type C to DP adapter would fix this issue or I am in the same boat as people with 2K displays?
Conclusion for Scenario 2 Will try to play around with more settings in the monitor when I have this setup back next week. After going this thread, looks like my chances are bleak
I don't understand why is it so difficult for Apple to make such a simple thing so complicated?
While windows does this flawlessly and has scaling to 125 % option inbuilt, Apple makes it difficult for its new users. They are producing a very good hardware but failing to address simple things.
I hope these observations might help someone. Thoughts ?