M1 Max MBP has all these unnecessary ports….WTF?!

[Jimmy James]

OP makes exactly the point. Almost everyone has a workaround. But I still view it as a workaround.

I’ve stayed on an older Mac and have dreaded upgrading and being dependant on a hub or dongles for basic functions I can do now.

 

[randomgeeza]

The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.

MagSafe was a mess. Yeah it was branded well but I didnt like it because my cables were always ruined and I had to spend a lot of money replacing it. Imo TB3/4 works great and haven’t had to replace it once.

Good grief… ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ That was a step backwards and for very little gain. The size is perfect. Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.

Aww poor you. Boo hoo!

 

[jlc1978]

Seriously, I don’t get it. Apple adds ports and people freak out. They add bonus screen space around the camera and people lose their heads. What is the big deal about a notch? The screen on both sides of it is screen you didn’t have before. At least all the apps are aware it’s there and work around it unlike the hole punch on Android phones. Why don’t more people complain that a front-facing camera is a waste of money for a lot of people? With a camera delete option, you wouldn’t need a notch or hole punch.

Apple could include free rainbows and unicorns and people would complain about the Pantone color set and horn design.

I’m guessing few would go for a camera delete option. Of course, with camera delete option people would complain it’s BTO only and they have to wait. I wish Apple had made an electronic shutter like my HP had so I could physically clover the lens when I wanted,instead of having to do it with an external cover.

Maybe we need to embrace universal ports, but not USB-c. The very different and indistinguishable looking cables is it's problem -- people get frustrated with crud like that.

Another problem is people hate dongles, and I don't blame them.

We need something new, preferable mag based rather than male female type ports, and *1* kind of cable.

The problem is one universal port and cable would mean the cable would need to be designed for all uses, resulting in a much more expensive cable than needed for many uses.

I like USBC, but I’ve lived with USBC-only MacBooks for 2 or 3 years now, and they’re a big hassle. My new 14” MBP is nearly perfect as far as ports go. Having one USB-A port would be perfect, for using USB sticks, etc, but I can manage.

The HDMI dongle situation was really bad. I’m very happy that’s been fixed.

How so? We now have a port that probably gets used infrequently by the majority of users and thus takes up space that could have been used to add another USB port, giving greater flexibility in what you can attach. I say this as someone who used a dongle a lot for HDMI/VGA/etc. output; carrying a dongle was no big deal.

The fact that people were buying all those overpriced dongles proofs that all those ports are needed. Else people would not be forced to rely on dongles.

Or people liked the flexibility of adding what connections they needed while having more standard ports to use for dongles.

And that is quite ****** that you have a portable machine but have to carry all your dongles with you too.

However, dongles with enough standard ports are more flexible than built in ones. Plus, Apple’s decision leaves you whatever standard they decide to implement, so your stuck with Apple’s HDMI standard or forced to use a dongle if you need / want something else.

As with anything, they’re are trade offs with any design.

 

[bobcomer]

I’m guessing few would go for a camera delete option.

To get rid of the notch, I sure would! I'd like that option on the iPhone too.

The problem is one universal port and cable would mean the cable would need to be designed for all uses, resulting in a much more expensive cable than needed for many uses.

That would be FAR preferable than the USBc mess we have now, I'd be happy to pay more for the cable if I knew it was going to work for whatever I want. But at the very least, make sure you can tell what kind of cable it is just by looking at it. The current way is to keep trying different cable until you find one that works for what you want currently.

 

[Calaveras]

I'm kind of sick of this nonsense.
When I worked in broadcast and later a large hospitality company in NYC I ended up being the 'Mac guy'.
I never had anyone come in complaining that they had too many USB or thunderbolt ports. Quite the opposite.
They would gripe that their previous Mac had HDMI and SD card reader. Now they just have all these USB.
(had to educate them about TB3/USB C being on the same connector. That was a joy.)
Look, if you want a minimal Mac Laptop, get an Air. It's light, and has minimal ports.
If connectivity matters to you, get a MacBook Pro.
This is what is called product segmentation. If you are just buying a MacBook Pro without evaluating your wants/needs vs the model features that is on you, not Apple.

You know who I never hear complaints like this from?
Windows users.
They are happy every day that they boot their computer and it doesn't do the blue screen of infinite update.

 

[MrTSolar]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-needs-to-give-us-the-80-max-charge-option-on-the-iphone.2365460/post-31653730

Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

We need to embrace universal ports. I truly dont understand going backwards for no reason.

Oh no... Apple included two dedicated ports?

It's legit: THE MACBOOK PRO IS COMPROMISED.

Let's be serious, there is nothing forward-thinking about replacing popular I/O with a universal connector, when it becomes more inconvenient for the said users to add another peripheral to their set-up.

SD cards continue to be popular among prosumers and professionals not just for photography, but for all manner of hardware; so if adding a port to the MacBook Pro doesn't negatively impact the rest of the design, then why would this be a negative thing? There are still three USB-C ports if you want to use your own SD interface.

HDMI is very versatile for a number of users and industries - from those travel and deliver presentations regularly, to video editors to teachers and more. As above, having the port built-in is more convenient than having to make sure you have a dongle ready. And a secondary school employee myself, I can't tell you the number of times that they go missing, overheat (yes!) and break. You really think they just buy more? We're being told to get our own now.

Apple went solo with USB-C on the previous MacBook Pros for the same reason they replaced a tower computer with a trashcan - arrogance. No-one believes USB-C is a bad invention, simply that it's long-term replacement for many older I/O.

 

[jlc1978]

To get rid of the notch, I sure would! I'd like that option on the iPhone too.

I hear you but Apple would still need it for the light snsor, plus either modify OS X to allow the menubar to use the full space or still leave it unused.

 

[bobcomer]

On that note, why didn't the iPhone 12 or 13 get the TouchID power button the iPad Air has? We still have at least half the population wearing masks, so let's build two phones in a row that require face scan for PINless unlocking or Apple Pay. ?

I don't know, it would make sense to me. I like side or top button touch ID on my iPad Mini and my android phone, it's much more reliable than faceid on my iPhone. (yes, I have 2 phones)

 

[bobcomer]

I hear you but Apple would still need it for the light snsor, plus either modify OS X to allow the menubar to use the full space or still leave it unused.

Nobody else needs a notch for the camera or light sensor on a laptop. (I don't need either)

 

[jlc1978]

To get rid of the notch, I sure would! I'd like that option on the iPhone too.

What would be neat is if Apple could adapt transparent LED technology to Mac and iPhone and iPad displays. It could selectively allow light through for camera and FaceTime etc.

 

[Alameda]

We now have a port that probably gets used infrequently by the majority of users and thus takes up space that could have been used to add another USB port, giving greater flexibility in what you can attach. I say this as someone who used a dongle a lot for HDMI/VGA/etc. output; carrying a dongle was no big deal.

Are you certain that you've been able to get 4K60 8-bit 444 HDMI with your dongle? I tried many and never could. Amazon is filled with reviews of these adapters failing. Maybe you got 1080p and you were happy, but 4K is between difficult and impossible.

Why does this matter? First, 1080p is pretty low resolution these days. So the next bump in HDMI, in televisions, is 4K. Although 4K30 is great for video, use it with your computer and you instantly see the flaws: Scrolling is really slow and jumpy, windows move slowly, it's just not a good experience. If you want 4K60, 4:2:0 looks pretty good if your content is video, because nearly all video is shot as 4:2:0 anyway. But black text on a white background totally falls apart with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2. You need full 4:4:4, 60 Hz if you want a decent computer graphics desktop. And that means full HDMI 2.0-level performance, and most, if not all, USB Type-C to HDMI dongles won't deliver that. Here's my challenge to you: Paste in a link of just one single USB-C to HDMI dongle which states that it supports 4K60 HDMI with 8-bit 4:4:4. You'll see plenty of 4K60 claims, but do you see any with 4:4:4? And you won't see any which post their HDMI certificate as a 4K60 4:4:4 product.

Here's one which claims to support it: https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-C-HDMI-Hub-60Hz-Adapter/dp/B095FB6VF3

But then, they also claim to support 8-bit HDR... and HDR requires 10-bit or 12-bit, so if they can't describe their product correctly, it's probably not worth handing them $20.

 

[jlc1978]

Are you certain that you've been able to get 4K60 8-bit 444 HDMI with your dongle?

I don’t carecabout 4k60 8 bit 444HDMI, as I suspect most users don’t as well. A dongle is fine for connecting tona display to show PowerPoint. YMMV

 

[UBS28]

However, dongles with enough standard ports are more flexible than built in ones. Plus, Apple’s decision leaves you whatever standard they decide to implement, so your stuck with Apple’s HDMI standard or forced to use a dongle if you need / want something else.

As with anything, they’re are trade offs with any design.

What the hell you are talking about? There are no trade-offs at all. The 16" M1 Max MBP has the same number of UBS-C ports (which are also faster) as the previous version. Because with the previous version 1 UBS-C port was taken by the power supply, so you effectively only had 3.

 

[UBS28]

Are you certain that you've been able to get 4K60 8-bit 444 HDMI with your dongle? I tried many and never could. Amazon is filled with reviews of these adapters failing. Maybe you got 1080p and you were happy, but 4K is between difficult and impossible.

Why does this matter? First, 1080p is pretty low resolution these days. So the next bump in HDMI, in televisions, is 4K. Although 4K30 is great for video, use it with your computer and you instantly see the flaws: Scrolling is really slow and jumpy, windows move slowly, it's just not a good experience. If you want 4K60, 4:2:0 looks pretty good if your content is video, because nearly all video is shot as 4:2:0 anyway. But black text on a white background totally falls apart with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2. You need full 4:4:4, 60 Hz if you want a decent computer graphics desktop. And that means full HDMI 2.0-level performance, and most, if not all, USB Type-C to HDMI dongles won't deliver that. Here's my challenge to you: Paste in a link of just one single USB-C to HDMI dongle which states that it supports 4K60 HDMI with 8-bit 4:4:4. You'll see plenty of 4K60 claims, but do you see any with 4:4:4? And you won't see any which post their HDMI certificate as a 4K60 4:4:4 product.

Here's one which claims to support it: https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-C-HDMI-Hub-60Hz-Adapter/dp/B095FB6VF3

But then, they also claim to support 8-bit HDR... and HDR requires 10-bit or 12-bit, so if they can't describe their product correctly, it's probably not worth handing them $20.

Those HMDI dongles suck indeed. My MBP was only able to output 4K @ 30 hz. After wasting my time troubleshooting it, the problem appeared to be caused by the dongle I was using.

It just shows that you can't just rely on dongles all the time.

 

[jlc1978]

What the hell you are talking about? There are no trade-offs at all.

Sure there are - the number and types of ports, for example, adding HDMI and instead of another USB-C port. Using a dedicated MagSafe port instead of a MagSafe USB design. Size of the device vs larger battery or screen. All are trade offs.

The 16" M1 Max MBP has the same number of UBS-C ports (which are also faster) as the previous version. Because with the previous version 1 UBS-C port was taken by the power supply, so you effectively only had 3.

Except that when on battery power you had an additional USB-C port available. As I said , Apple made trade offs in the design. We’re they bad? No, but still decisions they made.

 

[MrTSolar]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-needs-to-give-us-the-80-max-charge-option-on-the-iphone.2365460/post-31653730

Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:

 

[Calaveras]

Back when I worked in broadcast I had a little spare time around the holidays once.
Spare time is a really rare occurrence when doing IT stuff in broadcast. Felt I had to have something to show for my daily engineering report. So I gathered up all the HDMI dongles we had and 3 different Mac laptops.
I think I had a 13", a 15" and an Air.
Went to the executive conference room with the big Sharp display, well, big for 2015.
I tested the resolutions each could hit and the refresh rate.
At that point in time the one which gave the best results with all 3 laptops was Kannex. The cheapest one.
The Tripplite got the best resolution and highest refresh rate with the 15" laptop that had an honest to goodness GPU.
But it wasn't able to hit the same resolutions on the two lower tier laptops.
The Apple adapter was the least impressive. It got reasonable resolutions but very conservative refresh rates.
This is one of the main reasons I don't like using dongles for HDMI.
They are a crapshoot.
You can get the most expensive dongle from a known company and still end up with dodgy performance.
Also, I've never seen an HDMI port on a Mac just fail. I've seen lots and lots of HDMI dongles fail. Either from overheating, poor quality, or maybe just being in the bottom of the bag whenever it gets set down.

 

[darngooddesign]

Sure there are - the number and types of ports, for example, adding HDMI and instead of another USB-C port. Using a dedicated MagSafe port instead of a MagSafe USB design. Size of the device vs larger battery or screen. All are trade offs.

If Apple used a larger battery, the MBPs wouldn't be allowed on planes.

Except that when on battery power you had an additional USB-C port available. As I said , Apple made trade offs in the design. We’re they bad? No, but still decisions they made.

What are you doing on battery power which requires four USB-C connections all day long?

 

[Calaveras]

I mean they could probably do a root hub type thing like they did on the Cylinder Mac Pro.
That would cause ports to share bandwidth, but honestly how often are any of us saturating a TB4 ports bandwidth?
Unless you have a 5k display and a very fast external disk array populated with SSDs, quite doubtful.

 

[Fomalhaut]

What the hell you are talking about? There are no trade-offs at all. The 16" M1 Max MBP has the same number of UBS-C ports (which are also faster) as the previous version. Because with the previous version 1 UBS-C port was taken by the power supply, so you effectively only had 3.

...unless you powered your laptop from the same connection to your Thunderbolt monitor or dock of course...but I agree, I expect that most people use one of the 4 USB connectors for power.

I'm pretty happy with 3 x USB/TB4 plus SD and HDMI, because these are all things I would use almost daily, and it removes the need for two dongles / cables (SD card reader and a USB-C to HDMI dongle/cable)

 

[jlc1978]

Apple has hit a regulatory limit on the battery capacity. If they put any more battery in the MacBook, it can't go on planes.

If Apple used a larger battery, the MBPs wouldn't be allowed on planes.

In 49 CFR 175.10 the limits for laptops is 100WH or up to 160 WH if the airline allows it:

For a lithium ion battery, the Watt-hour rating must not exceed 100 Wh. With the approval of the operator, portable electronic devices may contain lithium ion batteries exceeding 100 Wh, but not exceeding 160 Wh and no more than two individually protected lithium ion batteries each exceeding 100 Wh, but not exceeding 160 Wh, may be carried per person as spare batteries in carry-on baggage

Considring the 14 has a 70 WH battery they have some room to add capacity but decided it wasn't needed.

3 full-speed TB4 ports is all the M1 Max has the bandwidth for. Adding a 4th would nerf one of the existing ports.

No doubt they could dump teh HDMI for a USB-C had they wanted, or simply design the chip to handle more than 4.

I don't know if any of you has had the chance to see one in-person yet or not, but the size of the MacBook Pro is hardly different from the previous model. Sitting side-by-side at the Apple Store, I had to look for the notch to even notice a difference when looking straight on. It's not even that heavy, either.

My 14 M1 isn't that much bigger than my M1 Air. It's a lot smaller than my 2018 15 MBP.

What is your use case for 4 USB-C ports on battery power?

What are you doing on battery power which requires four USB-C connections all day long?

My point was that Apple made design decisions on what ports to include and that involved tradeoffs. IMHO, 4 USB-C would be more flexible than MagSafe and HDMI; and a MagSafe USB-C connection could have been designed but taht would involve tradeoffs vs designing an Apple proprietary MagSafe connection.

In the end, Apple made tradeoffs in the design, as always must be done. I'm not opposed to them and like my 14 MBP, but that doesn't mean I'd make teh same tradeoffs; but Apple didn't ask me first so...

As for using 4 USB-C ports, I've had a monitor, iPad, external HDD and secure flash drive attached to my old device.

 

[MrTSolar]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-needs-to-give-us-the-80-max-charge-option-on-the-iphone.2365460/post-31653730

Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:

 

[jlc1978]

No, not really, unless they made it thicker.

Possibly, but my point was battery size was a tradeoff and not an FAA/TSA restriction as claimed.

It would also be too much for this design cycle to add more bandwidth to a chip that outperforms a Core i9 and RTX 3080 simultaneously. Maybe on the next cycle.

They could have designed it in from the start but for whatever reason decided not to, another tradeoff.

Use HDMI for the monitor and you still can have all attached. You can even connect an SD card now and still plug in power.

Not all monitors have HDMI ports. I do like the SD slot as I have a microSD in an adapter that doesn't protrude but about 1 mm.

At any rate, my point was Apple, like every company, made tradeoffs in the design that some found useful and others would have preferred a different approach. Had Apple wanted to they could have designed the MBP with 4 SUB-C ports, HDMI, microSD or any other combination of ports and slots from day one. Their choice and tradeoffs.

There is no one "right answer" just different approaches, tradeoffs and design choices.

 

[JouniS]

Possibly, but my point was battery size was a tradeoff and not an FAA/TSA restriction as claimed.

That 100 Wh is the guaranteed limit based on international norms. The same IATA norms allow batteries up to 160 Wh with the approval of the airline. Some airlines have enabled that as a matter of policy, some require a special permission for larger batteries, and some don't allow them at all (except as dangerous cargo). The 160 Wh limit is also quite new, and some countries may not have implemented it yet.

If you travel with a laptop with a battery larger than 100 Wh, there is a risk that you have to abandon the laptop before you are allowed to board the plane. Especially when something unexpected happens, such as when your flight is rerouted. As a result, you rarely see large batteries in the default configurations of mass market laptops. They tend to be limited to specialist equipment for situations where you have to make special arrangements before flying anyway.