M1 Pro/Max's GPU performance for gaming is quite poor.

[leman]

I don't remember Apple claiming their GPUs to be of 'workstation' class.

Apple generally avoids using the common PC terminology, probably because this terminology is vague as hell. But MacBook Pro was always de-facto positioned as an ultraportable workstation (price, features, capability).

The game's code needs to be optimized for Apple Silicon.

The first Pentiums in 1993 had their first triple A title like Quake 1 in 1996.

So we may see Apple Silicon-native games by 2023?

The first truly native Apple Silicon game is Baldurs Gate 3, with an early preview available now.

 

[jeanlain]

“Professional workflow computer is better at professional workflows than a gaming machine?”

If workstation laptops were not better than gaming laptops in some ways, then why do major PC manufacturers make them and why do people buy them, even though these workstations are much more expensive?

 

[jmho]

Workstations are mostly just much less error prone. They're slower, but once you've spent millions of hours rendering out your next Pixar animation, you can rest easy knowing that frame 48634 doesn't suddenly have a purple light in it because of a bit-flip.

Whereas in a game, nobody is going to notice if something looks a bit weird for a few milliseconds.

 

[Gnattu]

If workstation laptops were not better than gaming laptops in some ways, then why do major PC manufacturers make them and why do people buy them, even though these workstations are much more expensive?

Well, sometimes it is not about performance, but reliability. Gaming laptop has a much lower reliability requirement than a workstation, and that reliability does not come for free.

 

[Adarna]

The first truly native Apple Silicon game is Baldurs Gate 3, with an early preview available now.

But is it optimized for the M1 Pro & M1 Max? I'd expect that to occur 52 weeks from now

 

[leman]

What are the actual benefits of these pro cards, beyond the larger VRAM?
I recall that they can give better results than their gaming counterparts in very specific workflows like CAD, because of artificial limitation of the drivers.

Something like that. You get drivers optimized for legacy crap (because most CAD apps developers can’t be bothered to use the modern GPU properly), higher quality electrical components, more stable operation, some GPUs also used to have features like faster FP64 unlocked (no idea if it’s still a thing).

 

[xraydoc]

If Macs aren't for gaming at all, that's fine. But I wish people (and Apple themselves) would stop acting like it's matching the top end GPU out there when it can only reach or exceed it in certain specific use cases and otherwise falls way behind it elsewhere (or doesn't even compete in the same feature set)

But is Apple advertising it as a gaming GPU? I'm not so sure.
I think they're showing that in professional apps (video & film editing, etc.), the GPU in the M1M and M1P can approach dedicated GPU performance.
I know that users are hoping it'll be good enough to game on the Mac -- except for the fact that there's virtually no AAA Mac-native games.

 

[Serban55]

https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/qgqzeo https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/qggks4
(it's quite good)

Impressive since RTX 2070 does 70FPS at same settings/resolution for baldurus gate 3

 

[leman]

But is it optimized for the M1 Pro & M1 Max? I'd expect that to occur 52 weeks from now

They have a native ARM version optimized for M1 architecture. Last week they have released a new patch that improves the rendering engine, M1 version is slightly delayed but supposed to come out soon. They promise performance and image quality upgrades.

I‘ve heard that previous version of the game runs on M1 Max with 60+ fps at 4K on ultra, which is comparable to high end desktop gaming GPUs.

 

[jeanlain]

Well, sometimes it is not about performance, but reliability. Gaming laptop has a much lower reliability requirement than a workstation, and that reliability does not come for free.

I know, it was a rhetorical question.
One may also consider that gaming laptop screens have low resolution and overall poor image quality. Their main selling point is response time and refresh rates.

 

[Cicnod]

That's such a bad excuse and it won't gonna work that way anymore. Mobile RTX 3080 is also being used for workstation and productivity. How is it even different? Gaming is a huge industry which is way bigger than Hollywood. What's the point of ignoring gaming? Gaming is not good just because Mac isn't for gaming such a mediocre answer. Both Nvidia and AMD make GPUs for both gaming and productivity.

The same way a Ferrari is such a piece of crap compared to a Dodge Caravan. A vehicle is used to transport people. Since a Caravan can transport 200%+ more people it is obviously a better car and Ferrari should be ashamed to release that vehicle. Send it back to the drawing board and only release it when it can transport 9 people.

This is getting ridiculous with the complainers. Apple released a product focused on what the masses want to do with their pro machines and gaming isn't it and will never be it.

 

[leman]

That's such a bad excuse and it won't gonna work that way anymore. Mobile RTX 3080 is also being used for workstation and productivity. How is it even different? Gaming is a huge industry which is way bigger than Hollywood. What's the point of ignoring gaming? Gaming is not good just because Mac isn't for gaming such a mediocre answer. Both Nvidia and AMD make GPUs for both gaming and productivity.

They match performance of high end GPUs at half or less power consumption. While providing a much better laptop overall (display, connectivity, portability). If you consider this „mediocre“, I truly don’t know what to tell you.

 

[jmho]

The M1 Max is an incredibly good gaming GPU. It's just that yes, there are virtually no AAA Mac games right now because the hardware hasn't been there to run them on Macs until 24 hours ago and games take years to develop.

I think the future is looking bright. Everyone talks about Apple "leaving gaming money on the table", but now that the hardware is there, it's going to be game devs leaving Apple money on the table.

I think we'll see a handful of decent Mac ports, like Baldurs Gate 3, and hopefully these will sell incredibly well to all the MacBook Pro owners who want to try AAA gaming which will motivate more and more studios to make decent Mac ports.

If this doesn't happen, then the problem isn't that Apple didn't make good enough hardware, or that Apple didn't pump enough money in gaming studios or use the right APIs. It's that Mac users don't buy games.

Now I guess I have to buy Baldurs Gate 3 so I don't seem like a hypocrite

 

[Lihp8270]

If workstation laptops were not better than gaming laptops in some ways, then why do major PC manufacturers make them and why do people buy them, even though these workstations are much more expensive?

Read the whole context.

 

[jmho]

Now I guess I have to buy Baldurs Gate 3 so I don't seem like a hypocrite

lol I bought BG3 for $60, downloaded all 90+ gigabytes of it on my M1 Max, clicked play and I get a popup:

Patch 6 is now live for Mac!

M1 owners, we need a little more time to fine-tune that version - thank you for your patience!

and then it just quits.

I'm really trying to give Mac gaming a chance here, but.... ugh.

 

[nicolas_s]

https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/qgqzeo https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/qggks4
(it's quite good)

Here's an interesting thing:

Same game, also 1440p, also ultra, but with a desktop RTX 3080

It's around 120 fps too, just like the MacBook Pro. And we have to take into account that fps in the reddit video are locked, so it means that the Mac can also do more than 120 fps, it's just limited.

The potential is huge when it's optimized.

 

[Serban55]

So based on the former i9 16" Mbp in tomb raider that is poor optimised for M1 under Rosetta...even there you get double of everything

 

[EntropyQ3]

The first truly native Apple Silicon game is Baldurs Gate 3, with an early preview available now.

Hmm. Is this true though? Yes, it utilises Metal, but are there separate Metal code paths for previous generation Macs and the new AS GPUs, or does the new GPU run the same Metal code as the old? I've never seen mentioned that they actually target the new GPUs specifically, but then I haven't stayed on top of the progress of the Early Access version.

Seems to run quite well in spite of being work in progress, but performance results are almost certain to not be transferable to final release code.

 

[jmho]

Hmm. Is this true though? Yes, it utilises Metal, but are there separate Metal code paths for previous generation Macs and the new AS GPUs, or does the new GPU run the same Metal code as the old? I've never seen mentioned that they actually target the new GPUs specifically, but then I haven't stayed on top of the progress of the Early Access version.

Seems to run quite well in spite of being work in progress, but performance results are almost certain to not be transferable to final release code.

They got a fair bit of help from the Apple engineering team. A lot of WWDC videos mention BG3.

 

[sunny5]

How is macOS hostile to gaming development?
Methinks you're confusing the size of the user base with the quality of development tools.

Jesus this has been discussed so many times. I think you’ve been a part of those talks too. Do we really need to go down this hole again?

Plenty of developers have proved that statement wrong.

Wrong, both PC/Console are being dominant by x86 and yet nobody ever proved it yet.

 

[Serban55]

Since mobile gaming is dominating the profits...i see a bright future for the mac that uses the same arhitecture
But expect the in-app sales to be a thing for AAA games from now on

 

[vir]

Mac once had games.

 

[leman]

Hmm. Is this true though? Yes, it utilises Metal, but are there separate Metal code paths for previous generation Macs and the new AS GPUs, or does the new GPU run the same Metal code as the old? I've never seen mentioned that they actually target the new GPUs specifically, but then I haven't stayed on top of the progress of the Early Access version.

Seems to run quite well in spite of being work in progress, but performance results are almost certain to not be transferable to final release code.

The initial versions were running the same code if U understand correctly but they have been implementing more and more M1-specific features.

lol I bought BG3 for $60, downloaded all 90+ gigabytes of it on my M1 Max, clicked play and I get a popup:



and then it just quits.

I'm really trying to give Mac gaming a chance here, but.... ugh.

Well, they did communicate (very transparently) that the M1 version needs a bit more work. I think it's a good sign, really. Path 6 likely has a dedicated M1 rendering path. Regardless, Larian has been great for the Mac gaming. The owner is a very cool, passionate person and the entire team is competent and has a great sense of humor. They have always went out of their way to offer great Mac support, not because of profit seeking but because of the desire to deliver the best possible product (Divinity 2 had Touch Bar support lol), and it's exactly the kind of developer we need on the new Apple Silicon. The M1-native version will likely appear within a week or so.

I mean compare it to Amplitude's latest update (they are also a great studio but I think with the latest Humankind project they bit off a bit more than they could chew): "we kidnfo forgot that ARM hardware exists and when we finally bought an M1 Mac one year after it was released we found out that we designed ourselves into the corner..."

 

[mi7chy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/qgqzeo

Dips down to ~80fps when scenes change. What happened to zero copy buffer?

 

[mi7chy]

lol I bought BG3 for $60, downloaded all 90+ gigabytes of it on my M1 Max, clicked play and I get a popup:



and then it just quits.

I'm really trying to give Mac gaming a chance here, but.... ugh.

Went to buy Crossover to try some Mac games on M1 but it's $59.95/month subscription or $499.45 lifetime. Another reason why gaming on Mac is on life support when one can just get an Xbox Series X or about half the price of a laptop with 3060/3070 dGPU.