M1 Pro/Max's GPU performance for gaming is quite poor.

[leman]

Just cause it has the theoretical power doesn't mean anything.
Macs are not build for games in mind and it makes them subpar (to say the least) in this category to anything on the windows side ESPECIALLY in same price range. Every grandma and their dog knows this.

I completely disagree that Macs are not build with games in mind. Apple put a very competent low-power GPU in the base Macs that can hold its own to entry level gaming PCs in optimized games. Apple also offers state of the art APIs and tools for game development.

The problem is that there are not many developers who know the platform, and not many studios that target Macs. But this is a cultural issue, not a technical one. The thing about culture is that it is known to change. As some few pioneer studios decide to invest their time into a high-quality Mac version (like Larian does), interest in Mac gaming will increase and we will get more games. The biggest roadblock - weak performance and buggy drivers - have been cleared. We will see in a couple of years if Apples gambit plays out.

 

[Jorbanead]

That's a dumb statement.
I'll rephrase... Show me the data that backs your theory
Creative workloads vs consumer / office stuff by device type and # of sales. Say macbook air vs pro.

Comparing MacBook Air to MacBook Pro? Why? What will this prove?

I thought this was the gaming vs. creative workloads discussion against Mac and PC? I wasn’t ever discussing word processing on MacBook Air vs. Video editing on MacBook Pro?

 

[jmho]

Windows can't make iOS apps and games*, which happens to be where an incredible amount of money is. That's why a very large number of developers have Macs (even some game developers)

*ok, I guess you can sorta-kinda but it sucks worse than gaming on a Mac

If I only had a Mac I'd be sad, but if I only had a PC I couldn't work or earn money.

 

[sunny5]

Do you have anything useful to contribute? Why are you so hurt that Apple’s M1 chips are killing it?

You joined a site called Mac rumors to talk about Windows. Clearly the M1 release ruffled your PC fanboy feathers. That just shows Apple is on the right path. It is getting x86 fanboys riled enough to let Apple live rent free in their heads.

You can not ignore PC and yet, you are. M1 is killing it. So what? GPU isn't there. Even M1 Max with 32 core is quite disappointing for gaming. Since Apple themselves compared with PC, why not? Why do you think it's just Apple Silicon is Apple Silicon? It's a computer and therefore, many others including PC will be compared with Mac forever.

Yes I am aware Windows can do both. As I’ve said, I owned a PC for 3 years. Developing for games and developing for video editing are not the same markets. Do you not understand this?

Developers build productivity software for Mac because that’s the market Mac catered towards. It’s financially lucrative for Adobe, Avid, Blackmagic, etc. to support Mac because there is a large user base. It’s worth the expense because there is a ROI. Gaming on Mac hasn’t been widely adopted because up until recently, 70% of all macs sold didn’t not have adequate hardware to run demanding games, and there was little demand. So there would be no ROI for many devs.

Things may start to change now that the bottom tier Mac actually has the hardware to run demanding games, but it’s on the gaming devs to support and optimize for M1 chips.

I’ll say it once again: macs are for creative workloads. Video editing markets have nothing to do with gaming markets. They are mutually exclusive. Video markets found Mac to be profitable, gaming markets have not (yet).

Only 3 years? I've been owning PC for more than 10 years. Different markets does not make Mac isn't for gaming. Like I said, Windows can do both without problems and now, you are claiming that they are different markets? What a laughable statement. Windows is also for creative workloads. Windows even have more variety in terms of software. Do you see why Mac isn't for gaming is a stupid idea?

Because it isn't. It's a fact. Do you have AAA games on the mac coming out regularly? nope. Do you have stellar gaming performance like you have in similar priced windows laptops? nope. Can you play natively millions of games across ages? nope.

Just cause it has the theoretical power doesn't mean anything.
Macs are not build for games in mind and it makes them subpar (to say the least) in this category to anything on the windows side ESPECIALLY in same price range. Every grandma and their dog knows this.

Doesn't justify anything base on what you said. Many AAA games aren't supporting Mac because of its platform. Apple isn't trying at all. The gaming market is WAY bigger than Hollywood and video industry btw. The reason why gaming is important is because that's how technology develop and advance. That's said, to other people, Apple still lacks GPU performance. This is also why Nvidia is taking more than 80% for external GPU.

Also, gaming is too important to ignore. Ray tracing and path tracing is a good example. Unreal engine used for both gaming and video production such as Mandalorian. Surprised huh? Is this why Mac lacks and suffers less software to work with? How long do you really wanna hear that? Windows has more software to use and work with.

Dont be short sighted. The gaming industry is way bigger than you imagine and Mac is proving that it lacks a lot of thing.

 

[Jorbanead]

You can not ignore PC and yet, you are. M1 is killing it. So what? GPU isn't there. Even M1 Max with 32 core is quite disappointing for gaming. Since Apple themselves compared with PC, why not? Why do you think it's just Apple Silicon is Apple Silicon? It's a computer and therefore, many others including PC will be compared with Mac forever.


Only 3 years? I've been owning PC for more than 10 years. Different markets does not make Mac isn't for gaming. Like I said, Windows can do both without problems and now, you are claiming that they are different markets? What a laughable statement. Windows is also for creative workloads. Windows even have more variety in terms of software. Do you see why Mac isn't for gaming is a stupid idea?


Doesn't justify anything base on what you said. Many AAA games aren't supporting Mac because of its platform. Apple isn't trying at all. The gaming market is WAY bigger than Hollywood and video industry btw. The reason why gaming is important is because that's how technology develop and advance. That's said, to other people, Apple still lacks GPU performance. This is also why Nvidia is taking more than 80% for external GPU.

Also, gaming is too important to ignore. Ray tracing and path tracing is a good example. Unreal engine used for both gaming and video production such as Mandalorian. Surprised huh? Is this why Mac lacks and suffers less software to work with? How long do you really wanna hear that? Windows has more software to use and work with.

Dont be short sighted. The gaming industry is way bigger than you imagine and Mac is proving that it lacks a lot of thing.

You are one funny person

 

[jeanlain]

[Developer wakes up, gets ready for the day, opens the web browser and watches the Apple keynote that announces transition to Apple Silicon]

"Oh jesus god, again? Didn't we just get done poring over our code and weeding out all the 32-bit middleware to get ready for Catalina? Didn't we just move out all those ancient OpenGL calls Apple forced us to use for a decade plus and finally get them onto Metal? Now a new CPU architecture?! How many f**king transitions does this company need? Let's just cancel the bloody Mac port, screw this headache! Our game on other platforms has been finished code for years!"

I don't think that really matters. What matters most is the size of the user base and the ROI. DirectX also went thought a number of compatibility-breaking changes, at each major version.
Plus, games developers generally don't update their games to make it compatible with new APIs (BTW, openGL still works). Feral did not update any game to Apple Silicon, they just rely on Rosetta 2.

 

[Grohowiak]

Comparing MacBook Air to MacBook Pro? Why? What will this prove?

I thought this was the gaming vs. creative workloads discussion against Mac and PC? I wasn’t ever discussing word processing on MacBook Air vs. Video editing on MacBook Pro?

You said:
"...I’ll say it once again: macs are for creative workloads..."

I see 10 times more macs doing office stuff (and I'm in the creative field) than actual creative work.
My opinion doesn't align with what you say hence I asked for real data cause to me that statement is completely not true.

 

[sunny5]

You are one funny person

Facts hurt you, huh?

 

[vir]

So that's it then.

 

[Jorbanead]

You said:
"...I’ll say it once again: macs are for creative workloads..."

I see 10 times more macs doing office stuff (and I'm in the creative field) than actual creative work.
My opinion doesn't align with what you say hence I asked for real data cause to me that statement is completely not true.

Did I say macs are “only” for creative workloads? No. But this is a discussion about the M1 Max chip, specifically the GPU, a chip used in the MacBook Pro, which is designed for creative workloads. Office stuff is irrelevant to a discussion about high-end GPU workloads.

Of course you can still use a MacBook Pro for office stuff. That’s irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[sunny5]

No I think your reading comprehension is funny ?


Did I say macs are “only” for creative workloads? No. But this is a discussion about the M1 Max chip, specifically the GPU, a chip used in the MacBook Pro, which is designed for creative workloads. Office stuff is irrelevant to a discussion about high-end GPU workloads.

Of course you can still use a MacBook Pro for office stuff. That’s irrelevant to this discussion.

And yet, you keep ignoring facts. I get that. M1 Pro/Max is for creative workloads is a joke. How many times do I have to say that?

 

[Jorbanead]

Facts hurt you, huh?

Yet I’m not browsing PC forums saying how much PC’s suck for audio engineering (which they do I just don’t feel compelled to go out of my way to say it in a PC forum). It says a lot that you feel the need to create an account just to bash on Apple. And then when people explain how you’re wrong, you try and flip the script by saying “facts hurt huh”. I guess facts do hurt you to the point where you are on a Mac forum.

 

[Hoo Doo Dude]

There are two distinct gaming markets, the hard core gaming crowd and the casual gamer. True that Apple hasn't made much headway in the hard core gaming arena and they do have an uphill battle. However, they absolutely own the casual gaming market and consequently can simply wait until gaming developers get on board with the new processors. And even if that is extremely slow to come or somehow simply doesn't happen they've not really given up much as they will be able to extend their dominance of the casual gaming market.

 

[sunny5]

Yet I’m not browsing PC forums saying how much PC’s suck for audio engineering (which they do). It says a lot that you feel the need to create an account just to bash on Apple. And then when people explain how you’re wrong, you try and flip the script by saying “facts hurt huh”. I guess facts do hurt you to the point where you are on a Mac forum.

You just dont want to admit Mac's problem. I already explained you enough and yet you are the one who is ignoring.

 

[vir]

Macs have good exclusives.

 

[mi7chy]

Here's why gaming on Macs is on life support from the biggest ambassador of gaming on Macs.

 

[Jorbanead]

You just dont want to admit Mac's problem. I already explained you enough and yet you are the one who is ignoring.

You just don’t want to admit you’re spending your free time on a Mac forum because you’re bitter that Apple is actually accomplishing something pretty remarkable, so you’re looking for any reason to bash Apple you can.

 

[sunny5]

You just don’t want to admit you’re spending your free time on a Mac forum because you’re bitter that Apple is actually accomplishing something pretty remarkable, so you’re looking for any reason to bash Apple you can.

Doesn't mean not to mention Mac's problem. Why is it a problem? Do you really wanna defend notch and Touch Bar stuff? Same thing for GPU.

 

[jmho]

I mean the smart choice is just to buy a Mac and a console.

Literally every argument that can be levied against the Mac from the PC perspective can be levied at the PC from a console perspective.

Console gaming is where the money (and therefore developer effort) is.

 

[Jorbanead]

Doesn't mean not to mention Mac's problem. Why is it a problem? Do you really wanna defend notch and Touch Bar stuff? Same thing for GPU.

Criticism isn’t a problem. It’s the motivation behind the criticism that becomes a problem. I still think it’s funny you are on this forum just to criticize Mac. Are the PC forums not doing it for ya?

 

[crazy dave]

Guys there isn’t any point to continuing this discussion. Nobody is making any new arguments: the people who are arguing that AS GPUs intrinsically can’t game can’t explain their position beyond “the benchmarks!” while simultaneously saying the benchmarks that counter them don’t count for “reasons” … naturally unspecified beyond “they’re just synthetic!” (which isn’t true in all cases and again they ignore the reasons why this is so). Thus the conversation is going in circles.

They’re making argument A, argument A is countered, they then ignore argument A and move on to argument B and so until they go right back to argument A. Take a bird’s eye view: they haven’t said anything new in 6 pages of text. The most some of them are able to muster is a laughing emoji as an “argument”. Now it’s just devolving.

 

[vir]

One device for everything.

 

[raknor]

You can not ignore PC and yet, you are. GPU isn't there. Even M1 Max with 32 core is quite disappointing for gaming. Since Apple themselves compared with PC, why not? Why do you think it's just Apple Silicon is Apple Silicon? It's a computer and therefore, many others including PC will be compared with Mac forever.

I have ignored it since 2003.. try again. Do you know the difference between GPU isn't there vs gaming SW isn't there? I think you do but are pretending.

People that wanted 2080 perf for games last year didn't buy MacBook pros even though it was intel based. Same with 1080 generation. That's because the AMD GPUs couldn't compete. Nothing has changed in that regard expect the GPU is many times faster and now compete with the RTX30 class HW.

 

[JMacHack]

Guys there isn’t any point to continuing this discussion. Nobody is making any new arguments: the people who are arguing that AS GPUs intrinsically can’t game can’t explain their position beyond “the benchmarks!” while simultaneously saying the benchmarks that counter them don’t count for “reasons” … naturally unspecified beyond “they’re just synthetic!” (which isn’t true in all cases and again they ignore the reasons why this is so). Thus the conversation is going in circles.

They’re making argument A, argument A is countered, they then ignore argument A and move on to argument B and so until they go right back to argument A. Take a bird’s eye view: they haven’t said anything new in 6 pages of text. The most some of them are able to muster is a laughing emoji as an “argument”. Now it’s just devolving.

Welcome to a troll thread.

 

[sunny5]

Criticism isn’t a problem. It’s the motivation behind the criticism that becomes a problem. I still think it’s funny you are on this forum just to criticize Mac. Are the PC forums not doing it for ya?

You just said criticism isn't a problem and yet you are bashing me for doing that. Huh? Also, Macs still have a lot of problem which is a fact.