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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,858
4,598
Maybe watch the entire video? The Xps died in the middle of the Geekbench compute test and he had to plug it in. The m2 still had 40% left. And he only briefly switched power modes to show the performance difference between the modes. The remainder of the test he had to run mostly plugged in since the battery was toast
I figured that was going to happen. But a more valid test would be to start both computers at 100% battery. Run the XPS in lower power mode. Compare the performance and the battery life and then keep moving up the power requirements starting at 100% each time. Compare the performance against battery life. Then run plugged in and show the performance. Yes this would take more time but it would be significantly more informative.

Instead, this is more of the same "gotcha" and "OMG!, you won't believe what happened!" YouTube click bait that just happens to favor the Mac this time.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,419
2,648
OBX
I figured that was going to happen. But a more valid test would be to start both computers at 100% battery. Run the XPS in lower power mode. Compare the performance and the battery life and then keep moving up the power requirements starting at 100% each time. Compare the performance against battery life. Then run plugged in and show the performance. Yes this would take more time but it would be significantly more informative.

Instead, this is more of the same "gotcha" and "OMG!, you won't believe what happened!" YouTube click bait that just happens to favor the Mac this time.
Outside of gaming are there any "Tests" that Macs lose, or are not favored?
 

1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,285
3,444
Bc Canada
I figured that was going to happen. But a more valid test would be to start both computers at 100% battery. Run the XPS in lower power mode. Compare the performance and the battery life and then keep moving up the power requirements starting at 100% each time. Compare the performance against battery life. Then run plugged in and show the performance. Yes this would take more time but it would be significantly more informative.

Instead, this is more of the same "gotcha" and "OMG!, you won't believe what happened!" YouTube click bait that just happens to favor the Mac this time.
He has done a plugged in test of the Xps 13 when the m2 pro was released and did a comparison then. But yea im not sure what the 60% start was about.
 

1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,285
3,444
Bc Canada
Outside of gaming are there any "Tests" that Macs lose, or are not favored?
Program compatibility. That’s a big negative for some, it depends what you need the system for. macOS has less app support than windows to start, then you throw in the Arm architecture, and that limits it more.

But overall performance and battery life is definitely near the top
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,419
2,648
OBX
Program compatibility. That’s a big negative for some, it depends what you need the system for. macOS has less app support than windows to start, then you throw in the Arm architecture, and that limits it more.

But overall performance and battery life is definitely near the top
That is fair, though program compatibility has always been an issue on macOS. So I guess we just discount it right out of hand.
 

1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,285
3,444
Bc Canada
That is fair, though program compatibility has always been an issue on macOS. So I guess we just discount it right out of hand.
Considering the popularity of these macs, that exploded with the M series chips that introduced even more compatibility issues technically, it doesn’t seem to be an issue for most lol
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,858
4,598
Outside of gaming are there any "Tests" that Macs lose, or are not favored?
With the 256 GB M2 a lot of modern notebooks will have faster SSDs. Cinebench times for higher end notebooks almost always favor the 12th Gen Alder Lakes. Of course with Cinebench we know why it happens. Anyway, it isn't about winning or losing when people complain about YouTube benchmark videos, it is about the lack of rigor in the testing.
 

theotherphil

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2012
899
1,234
With the 256 GB M2 a lot of modern notebooks will have faster SSDs. Cinebench times for higher end notebooks almost always favor the 12th Gen Alder Lakes. Of course with Cinebench we know why it happens. Anyway, it isn't about winning or losing when people complain about YouTube benchmark videos, it is about the lack of rigor in the testing.

The above video showed the XPS SSD speeds double that of the M2 and the M2 still smashed it on every metric. When I say smashed, I mean 4-7x faster in most tests. People have an unrealistic idea of what the M2 should be able to do. It already handily beats all windows competitors in it’s “light and thin” category…in performance and battery life And punches way above it’s weight.

Yet somehow, fake outrage, people will be sending it back for theoretical problems when compared against a MBP. In what world is a MBA compared against a MBP??
 

Gelam

macrumors regular
Aug 31, 2021
189
65
Ok cool. I didn't say it M1 MacBook Air didn't throttle. I said it wasn't seen as an issue. The perception is that the M2 Macbook Air throttles more in some way than the M1 Macbook Air.

I was just making the point that if the M1 had throttled more, than we WOULDN'T see it as a problem that the M2 does. Whether or not it is true, someone found a way to get people to think that the M2 throttles more (which I DO NOT see as a problem).

The point I was trying to make was to NOT compare the M1 and M2, but compare the M2 in the new design Macbook Air to what it would do in the old design. If it would throttle less, even a little less, in the old design, then people would see it as a step backward. BUT if the M1 had come out in the new design and throttled just as much, people WOULD NOT have seen it as a step back.

It is a good example of the anchoring bias.
Ah I see. There is certainly the perception that the M2 Air throttles more than M1 Air.

I agree with your point. I would love to see any reviews that can map out the thermal capacity of the M1 Air vs M2 Air chassis. Although I think that is not possible without the schematics/cad file from Apple and high tech thermal simulation software.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,263
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Ah I see. There is certainly the perception that the M2 Air throttles more than M1 Air.

I agree with your point. I would love to see any reviews that can map out the thermal capacity of the M1 Air vs M2 Air chassis. Although I think that is not possible without the schematics/cad file from Apple and high tech thermal simulation software.
Simple, the M1 MBA has a better thermal management as it was a proper heatsink that distributes heat.
 

mr_jomo

Cancelled
Dec 9, 2018
429
530
It's interesting to watch how people in this threat jointly unravel the true data on the M2 Air's supposedly massive throttling.

All it took to sell us on the throttling narrative was two youtube videos:
Dave2D's very deceptive, and usual crypto-mac-hater video intentionally showing only half the story, and
Max Tech's very hyperbolic video, that even showed the M1 Air's data in a cut-in without using said data for a comparison.

Now, obviously Max Tech needs to capture the mac-fans back, so we get videos comparing the M2 Air to the XPS13 plus a video showing the improvements when running the M2 Air on low power mode.

Well, at least we get useful data that we can use ourselves, we just need to run their videos on mute 🤩.

Ohh, btw ArtisRight has the most informative set of videos on SSD speed and RAM's impact on performance --- very much worth your time IMHO :)
 
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Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,578
3,922
The above video showed the XPS SSD speeds double that of the M2 and the M2 still smashed it on every metric. When I say smashed, I mean 4-7x faster in most tests. People have an unrealistic idea of what the M2 should be able to do. It already handily beats all windows competitors in it’s “light and thin” category…in performance and battery life And punches way above it’s weight.

Yet somehow, fake outrage, people will be sending it back for theoretical problems when compared against a MBP. In what world is a MBA compared against a MBP??

The 13" M2 MBA and 13" M2 MBP are priced the same and is only 160 grams heavier. So the 13" M2 MBP is also a "light and thin" category laptop, and thus is a fair comparison.

With the MBA you are trading in performance and battery life for a better screen and slightly lighter and slightly thinner. And there is nothing outrages about wanting to know how much you are exactly trading in.
 
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orl2222

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2003
97
76
so cal
Of course. But you very quickly see their conclusions spread to people looking to buy these products. I've been following tech to have seen this happen again and again. My goal is simply to try to help prospective buyers understand the truth.
Yup I agree some YouTubers make a mountain out of mole hill. Currently the high end audiophile YouTubers are upset because their favorite reissuer of vinyl were made from digital originals, not analog source! The Air has always been for on the go, not a full video production in 8k! Or the SSD speed is slow!! Heaven forgive that it takes longer to to transfer 50 gigs of video files!
 
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thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
991
912
Now, obviously Max Tech needs to capture the mac-fans back, so we get videos comparing the M2 Air to the XPS13 plus a video showing the improvements when running the M2 Air on low power mode.
Yep, quite a few YTers do this and I'm not surprised to see it. L(inus)TT employs it quite a bit when it comes to Apple videos, although I don't think it's to get back Mac fans of his but to give his proper fanbase something to show for him being "reasonable", knowing full well that that 2nd video isn't the one that'll really be shared in typical conversations regarding the given topic.
 
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orl2222

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2003
97
76
so cal
Yep, quite a few YTers do this and I'm not surprised to see it. L(inus)TT employs it quite a bit when it comes to Apple videos, although I don't think it's to get back Mac fans of his but to give his proper fanbase something to show for him being "reasonable", knowing full well that that 2nd video isn't the one that'll really be shared in typical conversations regarding the given topic.
What needs to be done is avoid these click bait you tubers. after they lose subscribers, and their views dwindle, and their easy money fades, they will be remembered like my space users.
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
That is fair, though program compatibility has always been an issue on macOS. So I guess we just discount it right out of hand.
Many publications do, which I've always found weird. John Gruber was complaining about it recently na kind of overstated the issue, but I think it's generally a valid point: laptop reviewers seem very reticent to include Macs in their comparisons with PCs, presumably because it would make them look bad on many axes. Windows PCs will always have more compatibility, legacy software, and gaming performance or flexibility, but especially with Apple silicon Macs are faster, quieter, and much more efficient.

There are ways that Macs are apples and oranges to PCs, but I think to general users in the world where a lot more software is cross-platform or web-based, it makes sense to include them. I and many Mac users probably wouldn't consider a PC because that's not what we're interested in, but that's atypical, the same way there are plenty of people who switch between Android and iOS.
What needs to be done is avoid these click bait you tubers. after they lose subscribers, and their views dwindle, and their easy money fades, they will be remembered like my space users.
Were it so easy.

Making sober, reasoned videos just isn't a recipe for Youtube success. A few channels can do it, but it sort of is the exception that proves the rule. Hyperbolic takes and bug-eyed thumbnails are more likely to do better, and magnifying any potential controversy into a "___-gate" for clicks is a way of generating content where there was no content before.
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,341
9,442
Over here
All it took to sell us on the throttling narrative was two youtube videos
Well, many fell for it, but not all. If there is anything you can be sure of with every Apple release it is YT Drama. Of course, some points are justified but be absolutely sure of one thing, every YT video is about views & Income before anything else.
 
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orl2222

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2003
97
76
so cal
Many publications do, which I've always found weird. John Gruber was complaining about it recently na kind of overstated the issue, but I think it's generally a valid point: laptop reviewers seem very reticent to include Macs in their comparisons with PCs, presumably because it would make them look bad on many axes. Windows PCs will always have more compatibility, legacy software, and gaming performance or flexibility, but especially with Apple silicon Macs are faster, quieter, and much more efficient.

There are ways that Macs are apples and oranges to PCs, but I think to general users in the world where a lot more software is cross-platform or web-based, it makes sense to include them. I and many Mac users probably wouldn't consider a PC because that's not what we're interested in, but that's atypical, the same way there are plenty of people who switch between Android and iOS.

Were it so easy.

Making sober, reasoned videos just isn't a recipe for Youtube success. A few channels can do it, but it sort of is the exception that proves the rule. Hyperbolic takes and bug-eyed thumbnails are more likely to do better, and magnifying any potential controversy into a "___-gate" for clicks is a way of generating content where there was no content before.
True, there are a few YouTube channels that I watch like audio science review that actually do honest reviews(not Apple related) and he does it for the community, never with sponsor adds, or a big movie set as a studio.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,243
7,275
Seattle
Simple, the M1 MBA has a better thermal management as it was a proper heatsink that distributes heat.
And the M2 has a bigger heat sink than the M1. They are actually heat spreaders. The M1 heat spreader is thicker but the M2 one has more surface area to radiate heat. The M2 heat spreader also has a graphene heat transfer film to enhance the heat dissipation.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,243
7,275
Seattle
Didn’t this MaxTech fella disassemble and reassemble the MBA *prior* to his benchmarking?
Yes.

I’m sure that there was a lot of pressure to get the disassembly video out quickly. Doing benchmarking takes time. Would have been better to have a true baseline.
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,858
4,598
yes, I’m sure that there was a lot of pressure to get the disassembly video out quickly. Doing benchmarking takes time. Would have been better to have a true baseline.
He removed part of the graphite graphene layer on the heat spreader. Then casually pasted it back down with his hand. Very professional and not at all likely to affect heat dissipation.
 
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Toratek

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
520
1,081
Didn’t this MaxTech fella disassemble and reassemble the MBA *prior* to his benchmarking?
Yes, and he clearly damaged the graphene heat spreader when he did so, with visible wrinkles after his clumsy attempt to stick it back down. Tiny gaps or contaminants on thermal paste installations wreak havoc, so imagine what this ham handedness did.
 

NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,089
22,155
Yes, and he clearly damaged the graphene heat spreader when he did so, with visible wrinkles after his clumsy attempt to stick it back down. Tiny gaps or contaminants on thermal paste installations wreak havoc, so imagine what this ham handedness did.
So this whole thing is ******** on top of ********. Wow.

Do we wait for the “Apple should have made it easier to reassemble” crowd to have their say before calling this entire thing a hoax?

Damaging a machine, even through a crap thermal paste job, then using THAT machine to stir up clicks.

Scientifically, the guy is an idiot (his tampering of the heat system invalidates his results, full stop), but in this world of payment from clicks perhaps he’s just a marketing genius?
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,419
2,648
OBX
Yes, and he clearly damaged the graphene heat spreader when he did so, with visible wrinkles after his clumsy attempt to stick it back down. Tiny gaps or contaminants on thermal paste installations wreak havoc, so imagine what this ham handedness did.
Isn't the graphene heat spreader connected to the metal heat spreader and not the SoC? They didn't show their application of Artic Silver but reapplying thermal paste in that instance is hard to mess up (no such thing as too much, only too little).

Not excusing the order of how the videos went, if anything they should have done thermal testing with one of the other units they had on hand.
 
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