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NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,091
22,157
Isn't the graphene heat spreader connected to the metal heat spreader and not the SoC? They didn't show their application of Artic Silver but reapplying thermal paste in that instance is hard to mess up (no such thing as too much, only too little).

Not excusing the order of how the videos went, if anything they should have done thermal testing with one of the other units they had on hand.
Perhaps I’m still beholden to an “old wives tale” of thermal paste, but I thought the principle was “as little as possible to get complete coverage”?

Also, without a tensioning system like with bolt-on coolers, isn’t it likely there’s uneven thickness and, god forbid, potential air bubbles in their re-paste job?
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,429
2,655
OBX
Perhaps I’m still beholden to an “old wives tale” of thermal paste, but I thought the principle was “as little as possible to get complete coverage”?

Also, without a tensioning system like with bolt-on coolers, isn’t it likely there’s uneven thickness and, god forbid, potential air bubbles in their re-paste job?
Potentially, if there isn't a clamping mechanism you could apply more paste than the paste can transfer heat to the spreader.

Well that and AS-5 is not really good thermal paste (vs say Kryonaught).
 
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Toratek

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
520
1,081
Isn't the graphene heat spreader connected to the metal heat spreader and not the SoC? They didn't show their application of Artic Silver but reapplying thermal paste in that instance is hard to mess up (no such thing as too much, only too little).

Not excusing the order of how the videos went, if anything they should have done thermal testing with one of the other units they had on hand.
Sorry for the confusion. The graphene spreader is attached to the metal shield which is thermal pasted to the SOC. The same thermal flux issues created by gaps or contamination on the SOC interface apply to the shield-to-pyrolytic carbon spreader. Compromising that interface disrupts the thermal flow, just as it does to the SOC interface.

I didn’t even bother mentioning the issue with replacement of the OEM thermal paste with the aftermarket product. Completely invalid “test”.
 
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ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
Anyway, at the end of the day, as someone who's not going to buy one of these machines for themself, but might find themselves considering (buying or recommending) one for others, I find myself in a spot I didn't think I'd be in. On the one hand, the M2 MBA is a really nice, modern design, and I'd thus have a hard time recommending the M1 MBA (without hefty discount.) On the other hand, given the problems the base M2 MBA can have when it pages out to the SSD, I'd also have a hard time recommending the base M2 MBA, especially when its more (much more in some countries) expensive.
This is the problem. It's hard to recommend the base M2 MBA when the base M1 MBA is so much cheaper (if you don't qualify for an educational discount) and will be faster for some workloads (though many MBA buyers probably wouldn't notice the difference). With 16gb of RAM and 512gb of SSD, the M2 MBA is almost as expensive as the base 14" MBP which is a much better laptop.
 

orl2222

macrumors member
Oct 21, 2003
97
76
so cal
The above video showed the XPS SSD speeds double that of the M2 and the M2 still smashed it on every metric. When I say smashed, I mean 4-7x faster in most tests. People have an unrealistic idea of what the M2 should be able to do. It already handily beats all windows competitors in it’s “light and thin” category…in performance and battery life And punches way above it’s weight.

Yet somehow, fake outrage, people will be sending it back for theoretical problems when compared against a MBP. In what world is a MBA compared against a MBP??
I have a Dell XPS 13 905 I bought last year, Black Friday for cheap 649.00.It has 8GIGs of ram, 256 SSD.If I run crystal disc bench mark on, the SSD speeds are fast around 4000 speeds. But, not the whole story. Because of windows bloatware, the stuff that Dell requires you to have, it is to comparison to my base Mac mini M1. Plus the battery life has gone down, it gets only maybe 4 hours with screen brightness to 60 percent, those old eyes bought because it had 400 nit screen. I'm not a power user by Far, just using chrome with a couple of tabs open, takes a while to load, not my Internet, my iPad Pro 12.9 M1 works instantly. Yes its a nice designed machine, but honestly I hardly use it anymore. I'm gonna put it up for sale, or give it to a family member. I'm weening myself off of windows, had a MacBook Air in 2011.
 
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Rubz

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2022
2
0
Hello everyone - complete noob here

I am a dj - and would primarily use the Macbook Air M2 to run Serato DJ software and the occasional music production software.

Running Serato DJ Pro - would it cause the Macbook air to throttle? Say if I'm dj-ing at a gig for 6-8 hours?

It's not rendering anything - mainly visuals and obviously keeping latency to a minimum as you scratch etc.

Appreciate any and all insight
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
Hello everyone - complete noob here

I am a dj - and would primarily use the Macbook Air M2 to run Serato DJ software and the occasional music production software.

Running Serato DJ Pro - would it cause the Macbook air to throttle? Say if I'm dj-ing at a gig for 6-8 hours?

It's not rendering anything - mainly visuals and obviously keeping latency to a minimum as you scratch etc.

Appreciate any and all insight
It shouldn’t throttle. This isn’t like the old, Intel Macs which would throttle and run the fans for almost any task. The M1/M2 stay cool and fast for most tasks. You have to execute tasks that use all of the CPU cores and all of the GPU cores to get the M2 to throttle. Even then, the M2 MBA is stable and only slows down by 10-20% while staying faster than the M1 MBA.

This whole thread is because some people are affronted that when they run Final Cut Pro to render an 8K video with lots of filters, the M2 Air will hit a thermal limit and slow down to keep from overheating.

Apple has a fairly forgiving return policy, so you could get one, try it out, and if the performance won’t meet your needs, you can return it. i would recommend getting the 16GB RAM option and upgrade the storage to at least 512GB. The base model RAM and storage are pretty limited for what you are doing.

Here is a good review that goes over all the features of the MBA including performance.
 

Rubz

macrumors newbie
Jul 27, 2022
2
0
It shouldn’t throttle. This isn’t like the old, Intel Macs which would throttle and run the fans for almost any task. The M1/M2 stay cool and fast for most tasks. You have to execute tasks that use all of the CPU cores and all of the GPU cores to get the M2 to throttle. Even then, the M2 MBA is stable and only slows down by 10-20% while staying faster than the M1 MBA.

This whole thread is because some people are affronted that when they run Final Cut Pro to render an 8K video with lots of filters, the M2 Air will hit a thermal limit and slow down to keep from overheating.

Apple has a fairly forgiving return policy, so you could get one, try it out, and if the performance won’t meet your needs, you can return it. i would recommend getting the 16GB RAM option and upgrade the storage to at least 512GB. The base model RAM and storage are pretty limited for what you are doing.

Here is a good review that goes over all the features of the MBA including performance.
Thank you for your response! I really appreciate it - didn't know about the return policy.

I have seen some reviews that said to upgrade the storage to at least 512GB (since something about the 256 SSB reads slower? - please correct/advise me if I'm wrong).

I've heard 8GB is plenty - the only reason I'm hesitant to upgrade the ram to 16GB as well is that it starts bringing me into the MBP M1 14" pricing territory.

And in all honestly, I really like the form factor of the MBA M2 (lightweight, slim, portability etc.). So it might not bother me to upgrade the ram as well - but at what point should I consider MBP M1 14"?

I've been convinced that Apple is built for longevity and have no problem spending the money to get a worthwhile device (something futureproof-ed as much as possible)

I currently use a MBP 13" Early 2011 for my gigs - 8 GB/256GB - and it runs flawlessy for my needs (albeit the heating, fan, weak battery).

Thanks again!
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,613
11,288
Hello everyone - complete noob here

I am a dj - and would primarily use the Macbook Air M2 to run Serato DJ software and the occasional music production software.

Running Serato DJ Pro - would it cause the Macbook air to throttle? Say if I'm dj-ing at a gig for 6-8 hours?

It's not rendering anything - mainly visuals and obviously keeping latency to a minimum as you scratch etc.

Appreciate any and all insight

You're better off asking on https://www.reddit.com/r/Serato or https://serato.com/forum if you want unbiased info. There have been reports of Serato freezing after a few hours on Apple Silicon Macs. It can get very warm inside a club with active bodies so you'll want a laptop with fan for extra assurance and a second device for backup when performing for an unforgiving crowd.

Sadeki Snead

10 months ago
I have a problem with Serato freezing after 3 hours of playing on my 13 inch Mac with M1 Chip, If I add Rosetta 2, will the freezing stop?


REPLY


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Dj Flash

Dj Flash

2 weeks ago
Did u sort the problem I had same issue but it was the latency I had to adjust

https://www.reddit.com/r/Serato/comments/v0y8ti
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,858
4,598
It shouldn’t throttle. This isn’t like the old, Intel Macs which would throttle and run the fans for almost any task. The M1/M2 stay cool and fast for most tasks. You have to execute tasks that use all of the CPU cores and all of the GPU cores to get the M2 to throttle. Even then, the M2 MBA is stable and only slows down by 10-20% while staying faster than the M1 MBA.

This whole thread is because some people are affronted that when they run Final Cut Pro to render an 8K video with lots of filters, the M2 Air will hit a thermal limit and slow down to keep from overheating.

Apple has a fairly forgiving return policy, so you could get one, try it out, and if the performance won’t meet your needs, you can return it. i would recommend getting the 16GB RAM option and upgrade the storage to at least 512GB. The base model RAM and storage are pretty limited for what you are doing.

Here is a good review that goes over all the features of the MBA including performance.
You don't need to run all core to get the M1 to throttle so I wouldn't expect that all core is needed to throttle the M2 either. You do need pretty intense CPU or GPU work but I can get an M1 MacBook Air to throttle on Cinebench and that is just all 8 CPU cores and no GPU cores. So it is more like "if you use a lot of the CPU cores or GPU cores for several minutes".

I do agree though that even if the M2 does throttle it probably won't be a problem. But definitely get an M2 MBA and test it for yourself. As someone else pointed out, clubs can get pretty hot especially in the summer months so try and test in a representative environment if at all possible.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
Thank you for your response! I really appreciate it - didn't know about the return policy.

I have seen some reviews that said to upgrade the storage to at least 512GB (since something about the 256 SSB reads slower? - please correct/advise me if I'm wrong).

I've heard 8GB is plenty - the only reason I'm hesitant to upgrade the ram to 16GB as well is that it starts bringing me into the MBP M1 14" pricing territory.

And in all honestly, I really like the form factor of the MBA M2 (lightweight, slim, portability etc.). So it might not bother me to upgrade the ram as well - but at what point should I consider MBP M1 14"?

I've been convinced that Apple is built for longevity and have no problem spending the money to get a worthwhile device (something futureproof-ed as much as possible)

I currently use a MBP 13" Early 2011 for my gigs - 8 GB/256GB - and it runs flawlessy for my needs (albeit the heating, fan, weak battery).

Thanks again!
If the 8GB is working now, that‘s great. A lot of the issues with RAM are when you are running a lot of simultaneous apps. If you are mainly doing your DJ app, that reduces the pressure.

Yes, Apple changed the way they configure the SSD on the base 256GB M2 products (MBA and 13” MBP). They were using 2 128GB SSD chips working together but they switched to 1 256GB chip. The problem with that is with 2 chips, the system uses both in parallel and can have faster throughput on the drive. It can be down to half as fast for contiguous linear file read/write, though most file i/o is not contiguous and the more typical random read/write doesn’t seem to be impacts as much. Still 256 is pretty small and if you can jump up to 512GB, that uses two chips and doesn’t risk that problem. If your app is mainly about interaction and less about moving data, then it may not matter much. This is still much faster than older storage options.

If you are worried about heat in a club environment, you might look at the 13” M2 MBP. It has the same processor as the M2 MBA but it does have a small fan and probably would not be as affected by heat. It also has the touchbar which a lot of people working with audio and media like as it allows scrubbing. Not sure if your software supports it or not. It is pretty much the same price as the M2 MBA.

The 14” MBP is a fantastic machine and has a much larger cooling system. If you can get a discounted price on it, the price might not be that much more than a medium spec M2 MBA/MBP and you might have an easier time getting one.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
And from the ones I've seen it seems it throttles more so than an M1.
So it seems to vary depending on which test you are using and which use case. sounds like it doesn’t matter much anyway since we are only talking about cases where it reaches throttling levels. I guess if you are just playing games you might care, but otherwise, probably not.
 
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Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,580
3,927
There is definetly something up with the thermals of the M2 MBA.

So the fans on the 14" MBP are still off when the M2 MBA is going to 108C based on some videos I have seen. So the "passive cooling" for a fanless machine is quite bad.
 

Warped9

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2018
1,723
2,414
Brockville, Ontario.
The way some are getting worked up over this is absurd.

If you are doing the kind of work that will routinely make a machine throttle and hit the wall then you are looking at the wrong machine—simple. You look at a machine designed for your routine workload—simple.

If your printing needs are about 100-150 pages a week then you sure as hell don’t buy a cheap printer where you’ll be buying cartridges every two weeks or so. You look at something designed to be much more cost effective for your needs: a high yield inkjet, a laser or maybe an ecotank.

If you’re doing occasional video editing an M1 or M2 MacBook Air will be perfectly fine. You’re not going to break it or melt it. If you do heavy-duty video editing with multiple tasks simultaneously than buy a 13 or 14in. MacBook Pro.

This is the same old nonsense—wanting the performance of a musclecar for the price of an economy car. Get real.
 

Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,580
3,927
The way some are getting worked up over this is absurd.

If you are doing the kind of work that will routinely make a machine throttle and hit the wall then you are looking at the wrong machine—simple. You look at a machine designed for your routine workload—simple.

If your printing needs are about 100-150 pages a week then you sure as hell don’t buy a cheap printer where you’ll be buying cartridges every two weeks or so. You look at something designed to be much more cost effective for your needs: a high yield inkjet, a laser or maybe an ecotank.

If you’re doing occasional video editing an M1 or M2 MacBook Air will be perfectly fine. You’re not going to break it or melt it. If you do heavy-duty video editing with multiple tasks simultaneously than buy a 13 or 14in. MacBook Pro.

This is the same old nonsense—wanting the performance of a musclecar for the price of an economy car. Get real.

You are using the MBA wrong!! You should use your $1500+ MBA as a $250 Chromebook!!

Apple should simply install a fan or fix their passive cooling for the next generation M3 MBA. The MBA used to have a fan in the past.
 

unrigestered

Suspended
Jun 17, 2022
879
840
the fan was necessary in the past since Intel chips, while being very powerful in a desktop setup, simply were no great choice for ultra books.
The M Series MBAs being fan-less is actually a feature and not a con, at least as far as i'm concerned.
Are actively cooled solutions with more cores faster? yes, they are, but the MBA is still no slouch either, unless literally every single second less means big $$$ for your productivity and you just can't finish drinking a cup of coffee during truly demanding tasks instead of already starting your next project.
For less demanding things, the differences are very small, sometimes even next to none existent.

If you still need a tonne more power, get a Pro, or better yet, a desktop, but the MBA is actually still extremely powerful for most people, unless you are planning to do Hollywod quality CGI movies, in which case even a Studio Ultra wouldn't be your first choice.
Oh, and high end AAA gaming is also not it's forte, but again, even the more expensive Apple Silicon Macs are not astoundingly good at that (assuming there actually was a great choice in games)
 

JW5566

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2021
155
245
The Mac Book Air is basic device for simple web browsing and simple things like that! It's for old and young kids and not for audio/video production!

You say that but I have been editing and publishing video for my YouTube channel using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in base config (8/256). It works fine with some obvious caveats: When I render video I cannot do anything else - like browse websites - as the whole thing grinds to a halt; I have gotten used to having go and make a cup of tea for the long render times; some video needs transcoding or proxied like 360 degree footage to have any hope of skimming it in the timeline.

But it does work. I just wanted to say this because whilst a Pro is clearly better, people shouldn't assume the Airs cannot work with video or other intensive media. They can, just not as quickly. And if my Intel can do it, then M1/2 and anything with >8GB RAM will do it even better.
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
This is the problem. It's hard to recommend the base M2 MBA when the base M1 MBA is so much cheaper (if you don't qualify for an educational discount) and will be faster for some workloads (though many MBA buyers probably wouldn't notice the difference). With 16gb of RAM and 512gb of SSD, the M2 MBA is almost as expensive as the base 14" MBP which is a much better laptop.
But the MBA and MBP are different products. If you care only about power, you shouldn't be looking at a MBA in the first place. People talking about "well it's only $300 or something more to get a 14" MBP at that point" are missing the fact that that MBP is almost a pound heavier and the MBA is under 70% of the larger machine's volume.

If you care about that stuff, then you should be starting with the MBP in the first place. More money always gets you a better product, and in Apple's products until you start getting very expensive you are generally getting a lot more for your money compared to the budget offerings (that's the whole point—they can hit price points for price-conscious consumers, and upsell less-conscious ones.)
 

kp98077

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2010
4,309
2,763
Whistler, BC
Anyone have the base Air m2 (256)? If so any issues? Using for outlook, word, YouTube, web etc…. Thought would be fine but I’m here habe heard a lot of negative 😞
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,613
11,288
Anyone have the base Air m2 (256)? If so any issues? Using for outlook, word, YouTube, web etc…. Thought would be fine but I’m here habe heard a lot of negative 😞

Friends don't let friends suffer with 8GB RAM. M2 256GB is bad but 8GB RAM is even worse.

$1199 M1 MBA 16GB/256GB > $1399 M2 MBA 16GB/256GB > $1199 M2 MBA 8GB/256GB
 
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