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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
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Who brought up fans in iPhones? We are talking about laptop computers. The less powerful low end copes without fans and the more competent high end includes fans that only kick in under heavy loads that the low end could not cope with.

Do not misunderstand me. I agree that the MBA is a great product. But no one should for one minute fail to realize that is a lesser product than the MBP in every regard except for a few ounces of weight.
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
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I disagree with your response.
  1. OP needs to be resolved of any misinformation if battery life is any buying-criteria or consideration; or at least be correctly informed when the discussion is presented to them, in this forum.
  2. It's not "poor decision making" to buy according to one's personal order of priorities, and I resent the solipsistic approach. Let people decide for themselves how important an extra 25% battery life extension is.

Why does my simple comment—innocently clarifying that the MacBook Air has up to 25% more battery life—offend you so much that you forget an entire 5 forum pages are of us paying discussion to all those criteria—display, speakers, ports, performance?
Sorry. Having lived with Macs that only had a very few hours of battery life I am so thrilled by the great battery life of modern Macs that I get frustrated when folks concern themselves with the difference between 12 hours battery and 15 hours battery.

Note too that I do not see the difference between 12 hours and 15 hours as an extra 25% battery life extension (even though it is), because I would never exceed 12. Instead I see both boxes as providing substantial overhead beyond the 8 hours that is the most that I might ever typically need. Beyond 8 hours is to me just luxury; I might use a laptop for more than 8 hours, but charging would almost always be available.
 
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PaperMag

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May 13, 2023
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Who brought up fans in iPhones? We are talking about laptop computers. The less powerful low end copes without fans and the more competent high end includes fans that only kick in under heavy loads that the low end could not cope with.

Do not misunderstand me. I agree that the MBA is a great product. But no one should for one minute fail to realize that is a lesser product than the MBP in every regard except for a few ounces of weight.
Apple just made their M4 iPad Pros 1.5x the performance of the previous one, and not only did they not put in fans, they made it even thinner and lighter—and the people rejoiced. No one asked for fans. But they did ask for thinner and lighter. Because that makes it a better product-user fit.

We have to think like designers—the most important thing is product-user fit.
  • A billionaire is more likely to buy a MacBook Air because its a better product for the user.
  • A game developer is more likely to buy a MacBook Pro because its a better product for the user.
We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking.
 

PaperMag

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May 13, 2023
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Sorry. Having lived with Macs that only had a very few hours of battery life I am so thrilled by the great battery life of modern Macs that I get frustrated when folks concern themselves with the difference between 12 hours battery and 15 hours battery.

We also shouldn't tell people how to prioritize the criteria of battery life. These laptops get lesser hours than Apple's figures, and if being away from home is OP's use case, battery life should be a known, not an unknown.

Note too that I do not see the difference between 12 hours and 15 hours as an extra 25% battery life extension (even though it is), because I would never exceed 12. Instead I see both boxes as providing substantial overhead beyond the 8 hours that is the most that I might ever typically need. Beyond 8 hours is to me just luxury; I might use a laptop for more than 8 hours, but charging would almost always be available.

I think thats a fair framing—for you—and for most people. But we can think about this more completely:
  • Due to Apple's web test being unrealistically strict and saying "up to 12 hours"...
    • A 14-inch MacBook Pro is going to get closer to 8 hours. And then battery life lessens as the battery capacity wears down. It will be getting 6.5 hours in a few years.
    • But a 13-inch Air with "up to 15 hours" is more realistically getting 12 hours, only dipping down to almost 10 hours in a few years.
  • Or keep in mind that many of us like to charge up to 80%—or even 60%—using AlDente or BatFi or Apple's own battery optimizer—in an effort to prolong battery health—and so Air users have more abundance of battery life to keep the battery at 80% or 60% and still have all-day battery life. For example, my M2 Air is in clamshell mode at 60% always. When I unplug, I have 7.2 hours battery life. Had I purchased a MacBook Pro, I would have much less—only 5 hours.
None of my framing is to say OP shouldn't buy a MacBook Pro. A person who needs the performance and features of the MacBook Pro...should buy the MacBook Pro. I'm simply demonstrating that the MacBook Air has many more strengths than its given credit for.
 
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Saturn007

macrumors 68000
Jul 18, 2010
1,600
1,496
For college, I'd recommend the 13.6” MBA. The MBAs do have some important advantages over the MBPs.

Smaller, lighter, more manageable, easier to schlep to class, the union, or the library, and easier to put on a classroom chair folding arm, study carrel with books, or dorm room desk.

If your eyes are sensitive, the MBA has another advantage over the MBP in not having PWM (pulse width modulation) which can give some people headaches, eye strain, vertigo, etc. Many are sensitive to what is called temporal dithering, which can affect both models.

Battery life reports are all over the map. My takeaway from MR commentary is that many find that the 13.6” MBA can run for more hours than the 14” MBP. Yet, others disagree — and Apple's latest comparison show a marked advantage to the MBP — for the same M chip.

As to Milly's initial comparison, however, Apple shows the 13.6” M3 MBA with the *exact* same numbers of hours as the 14” M2 MBP — up to 18.

See https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/?modelList=MacBook-Air-M3,MacBook-Pro-14-M2

Of course, real world battery life can be quite different from that depending on your use pattern.

Sure, if one recharges every night, any differences, such as the 12 vs. 15 hours discussed before, are inconsequential. OTOH, it's a treat not having to charge as often — and be less likely to run out of juice when away from one's dorm or housing situation — or when travelling or vacationing. The longer life could mean longer life when running more intensive programs.

Yet, there is a big plus to the MBP, too, besides the better speakers (if you are someone who perceives audio differences or cares about that) and brighter screens (for certain content— yet if PWM is an issue, the screens are NOT better). Again, many of us don’t care about how much better the audio or screens are as the MBAs have quite good audio and screens in their own right. It simply doesn’t matter to us.

But the MBP gains an advantage over the MBA as to ports — if those matter to you. The SC card reader is wonderful for those who use digital cameras.

The MBP also has a port that could be of good use in college — the HDMI out so you can easily connect to projectors in classrooms and make presentations from your Mac without any adapter. (The MBAs can connect with an adapter, but those adapter-dongles can easily be forgotten exactly at the very time, day, or class needed — or get lost, misplaced, or stolen!)

Oh, two other big factors. Keep in mind that, as a student, you can buy through Apple's Education Store which will save you money over the regular prices — and even get close to the refurb prices!

Also, Apple's Back-to-School specials should soon be announced — so hold off and see what extra goodies you can get with your Mac!

Keep us posted as to what you decide — and whether any of our ramblings and advice proved helpful!
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,394
3,851
USA
Apple just made their M4 iPad Pros 1.5x the performance of the previous one, and not only did they not put in fans, they made it even thinner and lighter—and the people rejoiced. No one asked for fans. But they did ask for thinner and lighter. Because that makes it a better product-user fit.

We have to think like designers—the most important thing is product-user fit.
  • A billionaire is more likely to buy a MacBook Air because its a better product for the user.
  • A game developer is more likely to buy a MacBook Pro because its a better product for the user.
We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking.
You suggest: "We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking."

I strongly disagree, because generally MBP > MBA. It is simple: MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
 

DaveEcc

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2022
219
382
Ottawa, ON, Canada
MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
Sure, but Apple has raised the performance of the lower end to be higher than what the majority of users need. A base M1 was faster than all but one of the previous years high-end MBPs, if I recall correctly. If the cheaper and lighter option already does more than they need, then the MBA > MBP for those users.

When someone is looking at getting a minivan, you don't point to the 0-60 numbers of a Ferrari and tell them that the Ferrari is the superior option... it could be, for a few... but it's not, for the majority, because of price, cargo capacity, passenger capacity, likely insurance rates, cost of repairs, etc.

The OP has said he doesn't need the extra ports, SD card reader, or HDMI. Doesn't appear to care about the better speakers. I'm going to assume he doesn't care about ray-tracing. The choice is between the slightly newer, faster M3 CPU with the better battery and lower weight, or the M2 Pro slighter better display.

There's a LOT of reasons that matter to the OP on the M3 MBA side. There's one reason that matters to the OP on the M2 MBP side. How much weight the OP gives to each difference is personal preference. Sure, I use the ports, and I use the SD card, so the MBP is better for me, but it's not looking that way for the OP.
 
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PaperMag

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May 13, 2023
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You suggest: "We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking."

I strongly disagree, because generally MBP > MBA. It is simple: MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
Is a McLaren > Toyota Sienna?
 

PaperMag

Suspended
May 13, 2023
220
383
When someone is looking at getting a minivan, you don't point to the 0-60 numbers of a Ferrari and tell them that the Ferrari is the superior option... it could be, for a few... but it's not, for the majority, because of price, cargo capacity, passenger capacity, likely insurance rates, cost of repairs, etc.
Ha. I should have read your comment first.
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
For college, I'd recommend the 13.6” MBA. The MBAs do have some important advantages over the MBPs.

Smaller, lighter, more manageable, easier to schlep to class, the union, or the library, and easier to put on a classroom chair folding arm, study carrel with books, or dorm room desk.

If your eyes are sensitive, the MBA has another advantage over the MBP in not having PWM (pulse width modulation) which can give some people headaches, eye strain, vertigo, etc. Many are sensitive to what is called temporal dithering, which can affect both models.

Battery life reports are all over the map. My takeaway from MR commentary is that many find that the 13.6” MBA can run for more hours than the 14” MBP. Yet, others disagree — and Apple's latest comparison show a marked advantage to the MBP — for the same M chip.

As to Milly's initial comparison, however, Apple shows the 13.6” M3 MBA with the *exact* same numbers of hours as the 14” M2 MBP — up to 18.

See https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/?modelList=MacBook-Air-M3,MacBook-Pro-14-M2

Of course, real world battery life can be quite different from that depending on your use pattern.

Sure, if one recharges every night, any differences, such as the 12 vs. 15 hours discussed before, are inconsequential. OTOH, it's a treat not having to charge as often — and be less likely to run out of juice when away from one's dorm or housing situation — or when travelling or vacationing. The longer life could mean longer life when running more intensive programs.

Yet, there is a big plus to the MBP, too, besides the better speakers (if you are someone who perceives audio differences or cares about that) and brighter screens (for certain content— yet if PWM is an issue, the screens are NOT better). Again, many of us don’t care about how much better the audio or screens are as the MBAs have quite good audio and screens in their own right. It simply doesn’t matter to us.

But the MBP gains an advantage over the MBA as to ports — if those matter to you. The SC card reader is wonderful for those who use digital cameras.

The MBP also has a port that could be of good use in college — the HDMI out so you can easily connect to projectors in classrooms and make presentations from your Mac without any adapter. (The MBAs can connect with an adapter, but those adapter-dongles can easily be forgotten exactly at the very time, day, or class needed — or get lost, misplaced, or stolen!)

Oh, two other big factors. Keep in mind that, as a student, you can buy through Apple's Education Store which will save you money over the regular prices — and even get close to the refurb prices!

Also, Apple's Back-to-School specials should soon be announced — so hold off and see what extra goodies you can get with your Mac!

Keep us posted as to what you decide — and whether any of our ramblings and advice proved helpful!
I just realized that the edu discount doesn’t apply to the verified refurbished Mac’s so it’ll be $300 more for the m3 pro
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
Sure, but Apple has raised the performance of the lower end to be higher than what the majority of users need. A base M1 was faster than all but one of the previous years high-end MBPs, if I recall correctly. If the cheaper and lighter option already does more than they need, then the MBA > MBP for those users.

When someone is looking at getting a minivan, you don't point to the 0-60 numbers of a Ferrari and tell them that the Ferrari is the superior option... it could be, for a few... but it's not, for the majority, because of price, cargo capacity, passenger capacity, likely insurance rates, cost of repairs, etc.

The OP has said he doesn't need the extra ports, SD card reader, or HDMI. Doesn't appear to care about the better speakers. I'm going to assume he doesn't care about ray-tracing. The choice is between the slightly newer, faster M3 CPU with the better battery and lower weight, or the M2 Pro slighter better display.

There's a LOT of reasons that matter to the OP on the M3 MBA side. There's one reason that matters to the OP on the M2 MBP side. How much weight the OP gives to each difference is personal preference. Sure, I use the ports, and I use the SD card, so the MBP is better for me, but it's not looking that way for the OP.
Yeah man, I see a lot of people say the extra display ports but that’s pretty useless to me and also the speakers on my old i3 Mac air are more than enough for me tbh. Like it would be the is the screen worth the extra $300 bc apparently the edu discount doesn’t apply to the verified refurbished
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
Both choices have excellent real-world battery life. Picking nits about battery life of devices when both chaoice are this strong is poor decision making. Instead we should look at the many differences that are substantive and do matter: MBP better display, MBP better speakers, MBP more ports, MBP better bandwidth, etc.; MBA is lighter.

The primary decision here is whether or not lighter weight is of such value to the OP as to justify lesser display/speakers/ports/bandwidth/etc.
Is the display worth the extra money? Bc I wouldn’t use any of the extra ports or more bandwidth. Is the m3 air good enough for what I need?
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
As a business major, you should know:

A) That time is money. The time spent on this thread, if used correctly, could have been used to earn enough to pay for BOTH systems instead of spending the time choosing.

B) The perfect is the enemy of the good. Stop agonizing over making the perfect choice. There is no perfect choice, each has advantages. Pick one and be happy. Which one is personal preference.
Why would I need both
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
Who brought up fans in iPhones? We are talking about laptop computers. The less powerful low end copes without fans and the more competent high end includes fans that only kick in under heavy loads that the low end could not cope with.

Do not misunderstand me. I agree that the MBA is a great product. But no one should for one minute fail to realize that is a lesser product than the MBP in every regard except for a few ounces of weight.
Is pro worth the extra money for somebody that’s not gonna use most of the features?
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
You suggest: "We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking."

I strongly disagree, because generally MBP > MBA. It is simple: MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
Is the air much worse?
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,394
3,851
USA
Apple just made their M4 iPad Pros 1.5x the performance of the previous one, and not only did they not put in fans, they made it even thinner and lighter—and the people rejoiced. No one asked for fans. But they did ask for thinner and lighter. Because that makes it a better product-user fit.

We have to think like designers—the most important thing is product-user fit.
  • A billionaire is more likely to buy a MacBook Air because its a better product for the user.
  • A game developer is more likely to buy a MacBook Pro because its a better product for the user.
We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking.
You suggest: "We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking."

I strongly disagree, because generally MBP > MBA. It is simple: MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
You suggest: "We should get away from "MBP > MBA" thinking."

I strongly disagree, because generally MBP > MBA. It is simple: MBA is the lower end and its primary benefit to users is being cheaper (when comparing the very latest versions of each) and a few ounces lighter.
Is the weight difference noticeable?
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,394
3,851
USA
Is pro worth the extra money for somebody that’s not gonna use most of the features?
The original question was M2 MBP versus M3 MBA at similar pricing, in which case IMO MBP is generally a better choice for most folks. As to what is worth extra money, that gets to personal finances and chosen product life cycle.

As to "use most of the features," all users use the better display and better audio of the MBP, but admittedly those with untrained eyes/ears (which includes most teenagers) probably will not perceive any difference. So the lighter low end box is fine in that regard. Still, at similar pricing and RAM IMO M2 MBP is a much better box than an M3 MBA.
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
The original question was M2 MBP versus M3 MBA at similar pricing, in which case IMO MBP is generally a better choice for most folks. As to what is worth extra money, that gets to personal finances and chosen product life cycle.

As to "use most of the features," all users use the better display and better audio of the MBP, but admittedly those with untrained eyes/ears (which includes most teenagers) probably will not perceive any difference. So the lighter low end box is fine in that regard. Still, at similar pricing IMO M2 MBP is a much better box than an M3 MBA.
Is the m3 air much worse than the m2 pro?
 

Milly342

Suspended
Original poster
May 27, 2024
169
24
Again, the point is everyone is different and YMMV.
I just don’t see your point here, this is a public forum and I’m just asking people opinions about the weight difference but I’ll well aware everyone is different like I just don’t get the point of that comment
 

DaveEcc

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2022
219
382
Ottawa, ON, Canada
I just don’t see your point here, this is a public forum and I’m just asking people opinions about the weight difference but I’ll well aware everyone is different like I just don’t get the point of that comment
I think the point is that opinions on the weight difference are personal. People can give you their own opinion, but it's meaningless to you, unless you've got a history of weight comparisons that person has made that you've agreed with.

Some people think the 16" MBP isn't very heavy. Every time I lift my wife's my opinion is that it weighs a ton, and am thankful I chose a 14". My daughter loves her Air. At some point you need to pick what works for you.
 
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