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Mac mini (2018) Intel UHD Graphics 630 :: Pros and Cons

Yeah it's a shame on the price since like RX560 is a $100-$150 card itself. That's a huge markup on the enclosure
 
I think Sonnet priced the 570 version to make the 560 look like good value... (shakes head)

Seriously...these should be 299 and 399 USD products.
 
Merode said:
That would be hot! Unfortunately it would make whole setup so expensive I'd not consider it. If only CPU with Iris Plus 640 and higher tier with i5 with Vega M (Intel has such SKUs). That's what I hoped for but I guess in the world with eGPUs Apple feels like they can put anything and play eGPU card if asked. Too bad price doesn't reflect the fact that computer comes de facto without GPU.

EDIT: I miss times when Apple could really boast their computer's performance. Today this would turn into farce.
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That video says it all. Times were Apple included new features, included more performance, but at the same prices! A GPU increase of $100. Crazy times!
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Neodym said:
My understanding is that it is the trade off for choosing desktop CPU’s: As Intel assumes that the vast majority will add a dedicated GPU anyway in a desktop, they only put the bare necessity of iGPU in. And this is perfectly okay imho, as it seems to be capable to drive multiple high-res monitors at the same time for basic activities.

Users with demanding workflows will add a dedicated GPU anyway, so Iris Plus would be wasted in the desktop. Now Apple put this in a housing that solely allows for external dedicated GPU’s, which is more expensive, so users are unhappy. But if Apple chose to take a mobile CPU to get Iris Plus, people would have complained about the “lesser” CPU and would probably still be unhappy with even Iris Plus for demanding applications.

Plus, Apple has been burned multiple times with putting a dGPU in their anorexic housings, so this time they decided differently (and rightfully so, imho).
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Was it impossible for Apple to put inside the Mac Mini a mobile AMD or nVidia GPU? Something mid-range. It doesn’t have to have GTX 1080 performance, but at least a minimum. Even if that makes the Mac Mini case to be 1cm bigger.

The Intel 630 performs like a nVidia GeForce GT 645M which is a mid-range mobile GPU released in 2012. 6 years ago!
 
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emulajavi said:
Was it impossible for Apple to put inside the Mac Mini a mobile AMD or nVidia GPU? Something mid-range. It doesn’t have to have GTX 1080 performance, but at least a minimum. Even if that makes the Mac Mini case to be 1cm bigger.
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A discrete GPU was not consistent with Apple's vision for Mac Mini. Macbook Pro and iMac are mobile and desktop all-in-one computers respectively - so you have some options of buying more expensive GPU all-in-one configurations for more performance.

But MM is the ENTRY level desktop "modular" computer. So MM has whatever basic GPU comes "free" with the CPU option you buy. You choose better GPU for your application needs using an eGPU (Apple's definition of modular GPU). I expect very similar GPU situation for new 2019/20 Mac Pro. Probably one very modest built-in (two choices at most) discrete GPU (because Mac Pro is high-end modular desktop), and then eGPU for everyone else's specific needs. TB is Apple's idea of "modular".
 
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PianoPro said:
A discrete GPU was not consistent with Apple's vision for Mac Mini. Macbook Pro and iMac are mobile and desktop all-in-one computers respectively - so you have some options of buying more expensive GPU all-in-one configurations for more performance.

But MM is the ENTRY level desktop "modular" computer. So MM has whatever basic GPU comes "free" with the CPU option you buy. You choose better GPU for your application needs using an eGPU (Apple's definition of modular GPU). I expect very similar GPU situation for new 2019/20 Mac Pro. Probably one very modest built-in (two choices at most) discrete GPU (because Mac Pro is high-end modular desktop), and then eGPU for everyone else's specific needs. TB is Apple's idea of "modular".
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Agree. But ‘requiring adding another ‘box’ to the desktop to get the minimum GPU performance required by all pro and most non-pro users’ is ‘very unApple’ when Apple is all about clean-ness, minimum space, etc...

Taking into account the 499 to 799 (+60% base price increase) it’d have been desirable that they had managed to include a mid-range mobile GPU like the ones on the MBP, even if by including it the Mac Mini would have gotten 1cm taller.
 
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emulajavi said:
Agree. But ‘requiring adding another ‘box’ to the desktop to get the minimum GPU performance required by all pro and most non-pro users’ ...
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All pro? I’m certainly a pro user in the music industry and I certainly don’t need dedicated graphics. I’m glad I’ll be saving some bucks by not being forced down the throat a midrange dGPU.

Again the typical short sight from video guys... it’s becoming boring. Not all pros need the same hardware, please get this once for all... If you’re really that upset, get an iMac instead. It’s just so easy. We all have choices, right?
 
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emulajavi said:
Agree. But ‘requiring adding another ‘box’ to the desktop to get the minimum GPU performance required by all pro and most non-pro users’ is ‘very unApple’ when Apple is all about clean-ness, minimum space, etc...
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... only that it isn’t! Most non pro users are perfectly fine with the UHD630 for daily work. Even some pro users are fine with it (see posting above mine). And if you need more grunt, simply get the GPU you like and put it into an external housing. If any, THIS is very in-Apple, because you have choice and are not dependent on what Apple deemed suitable for you.

All the fans of “dedicated GPU inside Mac mini” or “make the housing bigger” seem to forget that it would have raised the cost significantly. Be it an additional GPU or the necessary retooling if the mini had grown. People already complain about mini prices as they are - imagine the outcry if the entry price(!) would have been north of $1000 :confused:

And then there is the thermal aspect: Apple has had several bad experiences with dGPU’s and now have a desktop-class CPU to cool. Not to forget the SSD: This performance class most probably also generates quite some heat by itself.

And eventually there will be the modular MacPro: If they want to distinguish the mini from that and save their healthy margins on the official Pro desktop, they can’t let the mini grow too far into MP territory. As it is, it already has reached a performance class you needed to have a cheese grater MP for, only some years ago.

If (and to me that is a big “if”) there would be sufficient demand for a proper dGPU in a bigger (taller) housing, I’m sure it won’t take long before some 3rd party vendor offers some stacking solution, matching the mini housing. Perhaps some DIY folks will hack an old Mac mini to put an external GPU is there (though I have no idea, if and how a decent GPU of today could be cooled in such an anorexic housing with relatively little airflow).
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Spectrum said:
I'd like to see a lower priced, lower spec eGPU than the black magic. Something with same form factor as the mini, for around £300 would be ideal.
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Probably can’t have both. Either diy with e.g. an Akitio Node and a GPU of your choice or matching form factor with pre-installed GPU, but probably more than your limit.
 
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For those wondering about the MM for video, here's Larry Jordan's take and recommendations.

Also, can anyone predict expected performance if I go from my MP 5,2 (3.2 quad, 16GB, Radeon HD 5770) to
an i7, 16GB, 512GB with external HDD data via USB3? I run legacy PS, LR and FCPX (mostly 1080p).
Thanks!
 
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Spectrum said:
I think Sonnet priced the 570 version to make the 560 look like good value... (shakes head)

Seriously...these should be 299 and 399 USD products.
Click to expand...
I have managed to pick up Gigabyte RX 580 Gaming Box 8GB for £250 on Amazon recently. It's brand new, it was just last unit and they lowered the price. Right now it retails for about £450.
 
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Photoshopper said:
Also, can anyone predict expected performance if I go from my MP 5,2 (3.2 quad, 16GB, Radeon HD 5770) to
an i7, 16GB, 512GB with external HDD data via USB3? I run legacy PS, LR and FCPX (mostly 1080p).
Thanks!
Click to expand...

You can expect much better performance, MP's Westmere Xeon is the same microarchitecture as Core i7 1st gen — it's ancient by today's standards.
 
Stephen.R said:
What's your definition of "pro"?
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For this GPU-thing, it’d the same as Apple’s: ‘creatives’

People who use Photoshop and other Adobe apps, Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Autocad, etc.

Except ‘music’, most of the other things you do on a computer require graphics processing power.


Is Intel UHD 630 (a GPU with a performance similar to a 2012 GPU) usable for them? Or their only option is to go and buy an eGPU? Or a PC that includes a GPU that suits their minimum needs?

I don’t know. But it seems the Intel UHD suits only a very little of potential Mac Mini buyers.

Even people who want to play some games can’t use this.

I’m also thinking about people that want to connect this Mini to a powerful monitor (maybe the new Apple Display that Apple will release on 2019). Will the Intel be able to power that monitor? and also if someone is editing some video on that monitor, will it perform decently?


It’d have been great if Apple had put inside the Mini one of the mobile GPUs included in the MBP. They could have assumed it inside the +60% increase on the base price they have made. That way the Mac Mini would have suited the needs of more people. But it seems that Apple nowadays only thinks in margins and increasing prices indefinitely.



Nowadays it seems that every product Apple releases has a ‘ technical compromise’ which sometimes is and/or seems arbitrary.
- Like the MacBook 12 with only one port instead of two
- Or the Mac Pro of 2013 with it’s nearly zero-upgradability
- Or the camera bumps on the iPhones
- The 2010 Mac Mini with dGPU and upgradable RAM but the 2012 Mac Mini without upgradable RAM.
- The 128GB SSD on base configurations which are priced higher than the previous base configuration.
- 2017 iMac released with year old 7th gen processors when 8th gen are a month away.
- No dGPU on MacBook Air, MacBook, Mac Mini, MBP13. Only dGPU on 4K & 5K iMacs and 15-inch MBP.
- Lack of nVidea GPUs when comparable priced (and lower) PCs are putting inside them GeForce 1050 & 1070 MaxQ which are way faster than the AMD Apple includes on their Pro machines.


I remember when I bought my 2010 MBA and it had, dual GPUs, the integrated Intel one and a nVidia one, and they system switched automatically between them when needed. Same with 2010 Mac Mini and ATI dGPU.
 
Merode said:
I have managed to pick up Gigabyte RX 580 Gaming Box 8GB for £250 on Amazon recently. It's brand new, it was just last unit and they lowered the price. Right now it retails for about £450.
Click to expand...
I was looking at that as well. I have a Razer Core X new in box waiting to be hooked up and am just trying to decide on the graphics card. I don't have any particular pro use in mind, just having fun speccing out my Mini setup. Waste of money? Some would say yes, but it is my hobby and sole remaining vice...
 
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I cant help thinking once you have spec'd up a Mac Mini to something decent, and add the eGPU option, as well as Keyboard/Mouse and a good monitor, you are in base iMac Pro territory anyways?
Obviously depends upon your end usage, but since I only have my MacBook at the moment and am looking for a desktop solution (I have no peripherals (other then external drives) to 're-use') the iMac Pro seams the 'neater' and more powerful solution - just don't know if I want an all-in-one and whether to spend so much!
 
KennethS said:
I was looking at that as well. I have a Razer Core X new in box waiting to be hooked up and am just trying to decide on the graphics card. I don't have any particular pro use in mind, just having fun speccing out my Mini setup. Waste of money? Some would say yes, but it is my hobby and sole remaining vice...
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I feel the same way. It is a little expensive but it is about hobby and passion. It is my remaining vice too
 
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Ifti said:
I cant help thinking once you have spec'd up a Mac Mini to something decent, and add the eGPU option, as well as Keyboard/Mouse and a good monitor, you are in base iMac Pro territory anyways?
Obviously depends upon your end usage, but since I only have my MacBook at the moment and am looking for a desktop solution (I have no peripherals (other then external drives) to 're-use') the iMac Pro seams the 'neater' and more powerful solution - just don't know if I want an all-in-one and whether to spend so much!
Click to expand...

Yep. The mac mini makes sense if:
You have a display - tick
You like keeping CPU and display decisions separate - tick
You have keyboard and mouse - tick
You don't need 1TB internal storage - tick
You don't need/want a Vega 56/64 GPU (but want to add flexible eGPU solutions) - tick
You are happy to add third party RAM - tick
You don't need 10GbE - tick
A 6-core i7 is enough - tick

The fewer you tick, the better value becomes the iMac Pro.
 
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