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Your premise/logic is correct, but only under specific circumstances.
  1. The software must be properly multi-threaded before it can utilize those cores.
  2. Most users will use the system bone-stock (no EFI mods to change the CPU's frequencies - this is way over most users' heads, so they won't attempt to experiment).

I apologize if I didn't make it crystal clear that more cores benefit only those running multithreaded apps. I should add that not all multithreaded apps can take advantage of every core you can throw at it because not all programmers and programs are equal in their threading capacity or achievement. However, turbo boost does not require that apps be multithreaded to experience turbo boost benefits. It need only be summoned into a requisite environment. So my point was that one ought to consider information about turbo boost range and any other thru put improvements, like memory management, as well as the core count, before casting an unannouced Mac Pro system out of the workstation class.

Also, I am not suggesting that anyone should travel the roads that I have traveled, am traveling and will travel. But in my sojourns, I've have had to confront situations that appears to me to urge caution before discounting the impact that a broader turbo boost range, as well as more cores, can have on Sandy Bridge Mac Pro workstation performance, particularly where the clock speed may seem to be comparatively low. My favorite clock speeds for my systems fit that criteria of being comparatively low and my turbo boost ranges are about as broad as one can get. Cross pollination [MacKnowledge -> HacKnowledge -> MacKnowledge -> HacKnowledge ->MacKnowledge ~] truly enriches us all.
 
I apologize if I didn't make it crystal clear that more cores benefit only those running multi-threaded apps.
No worries. :)

I figured it best to mention that there are conditions in which your post is/is not valid, since the degree of knowledge can vary greatly from one person to another. ;)
 
Tutor,

I like that you've tackled this another way - really impressive. Can you run at these high turbo boosted ratios for prolonged lengths of time though? I'm not suggesting 24/7 as I doubt most SR-2 owners could, or would - not really the purpose of a workstation/gaming rig. Could you do it for say a 12 hour render though?

Going back to what originally sparked this dialogue I guess we will need to wait and see what sort of turbo ratios come with the E5-2600s as current Xeons have very poor ratios without modification. I'm not used to the idea that a 20% slower 8-core in clockspeed would operate like a 2.5GHz 6-core when not using 2 of its cores. I don't think any of the current 8-cores are any more effective in this manner :/. Would be great if it was the case though - but I'm sure Intel prefer to sell one chip for core count and one for clock-speed.
 
My game plan for tackling threads

Umbongo,

I believe, like you, that Intel prefers to sell one chip for core count (for servers) and one for clock-speed (for workstations). However, as more and more workstation users run apps that are becoming more and more multithreaded, those users need a machine which has a high core count and has high clock speed performance. However, high core count and high clock speed performance constantly compete against each other because they both generate one of the nemesis of systems containing swirling, somewhat captive electrons and that is heat. That is why I preferred to roll with the EVGA Classified SR-2 as the basis for my workstation because it currently provides the most flexibility to meld high core count and high clock speed performance into a single team.

I stretched the turbo range as large as I could, without sacrificing stability, because I need my machine to run with stability 24/7, i.e., weeks at a time rendering long form projects. My 5680's have factory standard nonturbo steppings from 12 to 25 and for turbo boosting from 26 (for 4 cores) to 27 (for two cores) [per CPU] times the internal base clock (BCLK), so in theory if my system was stable at a setting of 12 my turbo ratio would be EEEEFF [27-13=14 (E in hex); 27-12=15 (F in hex)]. However, setting it to 12 causes it to drop, despite all of my efforts to the contrary, all of the C-state native power management settings. So I have to be content with setting the lowest stepping at 13 [26-13=13 (D in hex); 27-13=14 (E in hex)] to yield a ratio of DDDDEE for each CPU. What this means is that if I set BCLK at 165, then the base speed for all 12 cores is 13 x 165 or 2.145 GHz and at low turbo four cores from each CPU rise to 26 x165 or 4.290 GHz (total of 8 cores at that speed at any one instance of trigger time) and at top turbo two cores from each CPU rise to 27 x 165 or 4.455 GHz (total of 4 cores at that speed at any one instance of trigger time). On my single CPU quad systems, the turbo ratios are DDDE for that one CPU. So I presume as a matter of similar progression that as I use dual CPU's with more cores, the effects becomes even more exaggerated to yield a total system that mimics (1) the then current lower core count speed demon and (2) the "maximal game design" (defined below) for high threaded apps. For example, I suspect that in a dual 10-core Ivy Bridge system, each one of the two ten core Ivy Bridges CPUs will have a comparable ratio of DDDDDDEEEE, such that I would then be able to have teams of 12 core participants (total no. of D's on both CPUs) in low turbo or teams of 8 core participants in high turbo (total no. of E's on both CPUs). Since even Intel has shown consumer Sandies running at or near 5 GHz on air cooling, I suspect that I can get their Xeon descendants to turbo past 5 GHz with no sweat (low voltages and underclocking them even more) and using a hybrid H20 system (either modding two of Intel's new self-contained H20 coolers or modding two Corsair 80's ), yielding teams of 8 cores at about 5.4+ GHz at high turbo and teams of 12 cores at about 5+ Ghz at low turbo.

I use the phrase "maximal game design" to mean a strategy that takes advantage of the shortcomings/advantages in CPU/programming constructs, design, and execution (sort of like watching film of your opponent's game play to discover their underlying strengths and weaknesses). Core allocation state occurs at the trigger point in time by a command from the coach (master core) such as, "You 12 (or 8) perform this task." Within CPU0 lies the core which at any point in time calls the plays. Moreover, even the coach may direct himself to enter the field of play. For these reasons, I allocate a relatively, slightly higher voltage to CPU0 than to CPU1. However, not every task is equal or the same and not every core finishes its assigned task at the exact same moment in time. So when the very next assigment is made it's crucial to have a pool of capable (not voltage laden), fresh (cool) team members to have the environment such that turbo will trigger in a multithreaded league. That core that just finished executing the previous task and has run back to the sideline might be too tired, hot and sweaty to immediately go back into the field of play. I liken it to the structure of a football or soccer team where there is a need for a capable, fresh bench. Of course, the more capable, fresh players on the bench, the more options the the coach has to select the most capable, freshest ones so that it can satisfy the turbo trigger rule in a multithreaded league. And keep in mine that this is occurring continuously and much, much faster than any of us could ever conceive of it occurring (sort of like how the Oregon Ducks football team runs their plays). So the more cool cores at disposal, the more likely it becomes that turbo behaves, in a multithreaded environment, like a continuous phenomenon until what we conceive of as a singular task, e.g., all animation frames have been rendered, is completed. This phenomenon is dependent, however, on the particulars of the decision made by the team owner, i.e., the program's entire thread capable design and the execution of that design.

Please excuse my sports analogies. I can't help it. I reside in Alabama, USA, where football, particularly at Alabama and at Auburn, is more than a simple pastime. For me, football has become a paradigm for threaded computer programming and systems analysis. I'm willing to bet you that Intel's chip designers and engineers, as well as most designers of multithreaded programs, use similar paradigms; however, I'll concede that the sports teams they use probably differ.
 
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I appreciate the explanation, thanks. Really cleared some things up :). You seem to have taken a very outside the box approach to it all and it appears to have paid off.
 
I appreciate the explanation, thanks. Really cleared some things up :). You seem to have taken a very outside the box approach to it all and it appears to have paid off.

Glad it helped. I wish that Apple would take advantage of the new ease with which Intel allows the turbo ratio range of these new Sandy and Ivy Bridges to be expanded even beyond the standard 6x.
 
Glad it helped. I wish that Apple would take advantage of the new ease with which Intel allows the turbo ratio range of these new Sandy and Ivy Bridges to be expanded even beyond the standard 6x.

The contracts that OEMs have in place don't allow such things sadly and there isn't much incentive for them to negotiate it all, OS X and the Apple ecosystem is their differentiator over PC OEMs and they deem that good enough :/. Mostly it comes down to warranties and liabilities.
 
Semiaccurate at least confirms the release date. You will be looking at ~$600 for the price of entry on the processor though. The quad core Core i7 3820 does not show up until next year.
 
So does anyone else who does not get Intel's roadmaps. Anything is possible. Just not likely.
 
Appleinsider questions if there's even going to be anymore Mac Pro's.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...reportedly_questioning_future_of_mac_pro.html
As have various members here in MR for some time... Sadly, it will likely be the case at some point due to the economics involved (MSRP's get too high to sell enough systems to generate what Apple considers sufficient margins and ROI). So "when" is the more appropriate question IMO...

Personally, I don't expect it until Haswell (when consumer parts will release with 8 cores on a single die; it would be cheaper, and most MP users should be able to get away without a DP system). At which point a new system could be introduced, or even the iMac + TB ports be used (not ideal, but capable performance wise with such a CPU).
 
As have various members here in MR for some time... Sadly, it will likely be the case at some point due to the economics involved (MSRP's get too high to sell enough systems to generate what Apple considers sufficient margins and ROI). So "when" is the more appropriate question IMO...

Personally, I don't expect it until Haswell (when consumer parts will release with 8 cores on a single die; it would be cheaper, and most MP users should be able to get away without a DP system). At which point a new system could be introduced, or even the iMac + TB ports be used (not ideal, but capable performance wise with such a CPU).

I expect it will be immediate now. Apple is smart enough to figure out that if sales weren't where they wanted, the situation is only likely to get worse now as time passes? Only diehards, during The Great Recession, would pump $2,500 and much more into an end of the line system, unless their business would otherwise suffer greatly. Apple has lost the credibilty of many professionals while it grew into the consumer/prosumer giant it is now. Those roads that I am traveling and will travel now look to be a tad more crowded now and the title of this thread should be revised to add: "and now wish we didn't know." At least the resale value of my Mac Pros may hold up for a while, until the third party creators of Mac professional apps throw in the towel. Also, it's good that Macs will run other OSes.
 
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Those roads that I am traveling and will travel now look to be a tad more crowded now and the title of this thread should be revised to add: "and now wish we didn't know." At least the resale value of my Mac Pros may hold up for a while, until the third party creators of Mac professional apps throw in the towel.
I suspect so.

But it's not just the MP that's going to be affected. The workstation market in general is in a transitional state (enough cores that SP systems will be attractive, particularly due to ever increasing prices for DP components = higher system MSRP's). Combine that with the fact little software is truly multi-threaded, SP system with 8 cores will not only be an attractive alternative cost wise, but quite viable with most software as it currently exists (development for multi-threading has been rather slow).

Even as applications may become more capable in terms of threading, the CPU core count will continue to increase, and should be enough to keep up (keep in mind, the Bangalore had 80 cores on a single die - granted they're simpler than what's in current CPU's, but that won't be a problem as GPGPU processing capabilities increase over time as well).

By that time, it's been postulated that CPU's may just be ARM or Atom based components, with high-performance GPU's handling the heavy work. We're not there yet, but that's the course workstation tech is on.
 
I suspect so.

But it's not just the MP that's going to be affected. The workstation market in general is in a transitional state (enough cores that SP systems will be attractive, particularly due to ever increasing prices for DP components = higher system MSRP's). Combine that with the fact little software is truly multi-threaded, SP system with 8 cores will not only be an attractive alternative cost wise, but quite viable with most software as it currently exists (development for multi-threading has been rather slow).

Even as applications may become more capable in terms of threading, the CPU core count will continue to increase, and should be enough to keep up (keep in mind, the Bangalore had 80 cores on a single die - granted they're simpler than what's in current CPU's, but that won't be a problem as GPGPU processing capabilities increase over time as well).

By that time, it's been postulated that CPU's may just be ARM or Atom based components, with high-performance GPU's handling the heavy work. We're not there yet, but that's the course workstation tech is on.

I wholely agree with this, except that Apple has shown an unfailing tendency to cut corners where GPU's are involved (more than on any other component).
 
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I wholly agree with this, except that Apple has shown an unfailing tendency to cut corners where GPU's are involved (more than on any other component).
Keep in mind, the statement as to GPGPU processing was general to the entire workstation market, not specific vendors.

But I agree with your assessment they've not done well with providing a lot of GPU choices. But they're still GPGPU capable (recent cards that is), even if they aren't the fastest available at the time of release.
 
Appleinsider questions if there's even going to be anymore Mac Pro's.

Interesting sentence from the AI story:

"According to these people, the consensus among sales executives for the Cupertino-based company was that the Mac Pro's days -- at least in its current form -- were inevitably numbered."

I hope Tim is mindful of what Steve Jobs had to say about companies that are run by sales people.

New form? Fine, but please don't cede leadership in the high-end workstation space.
 
Appleinsider Reportedly an abandonment of the line Mac Pro

Does anyone read last news about Mac Pro?

It will be shame if Apple Discard new Mac Pro Update!:mad:
At this time if it were true I'd like to say ******** Apple:mad:
 
I sure hope that Apple pulls something out of it's hat. This is just too distressing.
 
Interesting sentence from the AI story:

"According to these people, the consensus among sales executives for the Cupertino-based company was that the Mac Pro's days -- at least in its current form -- were inevitably numbered."

I hope Tim is mindful of what Steve Jobs had to say about companies that are run by sales people.

New form? Fine, but please don't cede leadership in the high-end workstation space.

You should be able to tell that article is basically trash journalism. They're just rehashing speculation and referencing anonymous sources to attempt to lend credibility to it.
 
You should be able to tell that article is basically trash journalism. They're just rehashing speculation and referencing anonymous sources to attempt to lend credibility to it.

Well, it's quite evident that Apple is abandoning Mac Pro sooner than later. Add some "sources" to the article and you have plenty of page views coming. The views pay the salaries anyway.
 
...New form? Fine, but please don't cede leadership in the high-end workstation space.

Frankly I don't even know that they need a new form, and they've never had leadership in this space. I'd like to see them TAKE the leadership in this space. Offer the best workstation GPUs available...all of them, give people choices. Offer the absolute fastest, most stable workstation in the market. Then actually market the thing and tell people why they must have it or their professional lives will never be complete.
 
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