MP 14,8 Mac Pro 2023 is a scam

[Shhhh]

I mean ... we've been waiting since 2020 for some big ARM reveal ... and it ends up being a Mac Studio with more ports. Maybe they just needed to get something out there so it would be in the lineup, but it's pretty disappointing. Maybe the M3 chips will bring something more special. I don't know.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I was curious what the Mac Pro 2023 base price buys for a PC workstation so I went to Newegg and added things to my cart. It came out to an ASUS Pro W790 Sage motherboard, a Radeon Pro W7800 GPU, a 1300W 80 Plus Titanium PSU, an Intel Xeon W5-3435X 16-core CPU, 96 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM, a big CPU cooler, an SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB PCIe NVMe, and a case. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else to make it complete. It's been a while since I built a PC from scratch.

Consider trying to figure all that out and having to run Windows or Linux it would be really tempting to just buy the new Mac Pro. It's not that much of a scam I guess.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

I was curious what the Mac Pro 2023 base price buys for a PC workstation so I went to Newegg and added things to my cart. It came out to an ASUS Pro W790 Sage motherboard, a Radeon Pro W7800 GPU, a 1300W 80 Plus Titanium PSU, an Intel Xeon W5-3435X 16-core CPU, 96 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM, a big CPU cooler, an SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB PCIe NVMe, and a case. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else to make it complete. It's been a while since I built a PC from scratch.

Consider trying to figure all that out and having to run Windows or Linux it would be really tempting to just buy the new Mac Pro. It's not that much of a scam I guess.

This is true, but your missing one thing, at least you can upgrade your PC workstation for a fraction of the cost of a new M3 in 2 years time.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

From another thread:

Apple M2 Ultra SoC Isn't Faster Than AMD & Intel Last Year Desktop CPUs, 50% Slower Than NVIDIA RTX 4080

Apple's M2 Ultra SoC is being benchmarked right and left and we can compare those numbers to AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA chips.

wccftech.com

 

[Longplays]

That only reinforces my point. Max Tech don’t have the system to test or review, so they’re in no position to call it a ‘scam’.

When https://www.anandtech.com/ or https://arstechnica.com/ runs a review then share that instead of Max Tech.

 

[avro707]

I was curious what the Mac Pro 2023 base price buys for a PC workstation so I went to Newegg and added things to my cart. It came out to an ASUS Pro W790 Sage motherboard, a Radeon Pro W7800 GPU, a 1300W 80 Plus Titanium PSU, an Intel Xeon W5-3435X 16-core CPU, 96 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM, a big CPU cooler, an SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB PCIe NVMe, and a case. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else to make it complete. It's been a while since I built a PC from scratch.

Consider trying to figure all that out and having to run Windows or Linux it would be really tempting to just buy the new Mac Pro. It's not that much of a scam I guess.

Windows 11 Pro for Workstations I have running on my 7,1 Mac Pro, it’s a very nice OS. It’s quick to start and runs very reliably.

It will also support whatever crazy computer config you decide to build. Building your own workstation you can build it how you want and aren’t stuck with a machine you have to dump later on and buy something totally new for big dollars.

 

[Richard Tillard]

The CPU is better than the best CPU of the previous model (over $12k) and the GPU has a metal score that beats the Radeon 6950 XT - and it has PCIe expansion

It’s not a scam. It’s typical Max Tech clickbait garbage. In about a weeks time they’ll be calling the best Mac ever made with the usual dramatic thumbnail and yelling.

Really, I don't understand these people at all. An incredible number of recording studios, movie studios use the Mac Pro as a failsafe machine. It's a computer for 1% of the people, but it completely fulfills its function.

 

[mode11]

I was curious what the Mac Pro 2023 base price buys for a PC workstation so I went to Newegg and added things to my cart. It came out to an ASUS Pro W790 Sage motherboard, a Radeon Pro W7800 GPU, a 1300W 80 Plus Titanium PSU, an Intel Xeon W5-3435X 16-core CPU, 96 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM, a big CPU cooler, an SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB PCIe NVMe, and a case. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else to make it complete. It's been a while since I built a PC from scratch.

Consider trying to figure all that out and having to run Windows or Linux it would be really tempting to just buy the new Mac Pro. It's not that much of a scam I guess.

Why are you speccing workstation parts on the PC side? The MP doesn't support ECC or have certified workstation GPU drivers. It just uses consumer laptop parts. The number of PCIe lanes coming off the Ultra is also pretty suspect at this point.

If you're building a PC, why not just use a 13900K and an RTX4090? It would cost less than $4K, destroy the MP for anything 3D, and be upgradeable (for the GPU at least; CPU would need a MB swap to get something better).

Obviously if you spend your time editing lots of 8K video, the MP (or Studio) is a better deal.

 

[Longplays]

Really, I don't understand these people at all. An incredible number of recording studios, movie studios use the Mac Pro as a failsafe machine. It's a computer for 1% of the people, but it completely fulfills its function.

They want to widen its appeal by adding RGB lighting and stickers... lots of stickers. How about glass panels on the side of the tower?

 

[h9826790]

Well that depends - what did that Newegg basket come to? A lot less than $7K I bet. Installing Windows isn't that hard.

Also, if we pay for a motherboard that can support a 56 cores Xeon with 2TB ECC RAM, but we only give it a 16 cores CPU with 96GB RAM. We are paying a lot on the expandability, which makes this "budget limiting computer" has very poor cost to performance ratio.

 

[chrono1081]

MaxTech doesn't know what the hell he's talking about usually. His channel used to be decent but is now just clickbait garbage with incorrect testing methods. I remember him dogging the M2 Air yet my real world experience had me running stuff on it (just fine) that most people would buy a workstation for. Applications like Houdini, Final Cut, Logic, ZBrush, Blender, Xcode, etc all ran just fine without overheating, yet if you watched his original videos you'd think the M2 Air was the worst machine out there.

 

[m1maverick]

I was curious what the Mac Pro 2023 base price buys for a PC workstation so I went to Newegg and added things to my cart. It came out to an ASUS Pro W790 Sage motherboard, a Radeon Pro W7800 GPU, a 1300W 80 Plus Titanium PSU, an Intel Xeon W5-3435X 16-core CPU, 96 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM, a big CPU cooler, an SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB PCIe NVMe, and a case. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else to make it complete. It's been a while since I built a PC from scratch.

Consider trying to figure all that out and having to run Windows or Linux it would be really tempting to just buy the new Mac Pro. It's not that much of a scam I guess.

I do not think it's a like for like comparison using a home built PC to the Mac Pro. IMO its real competitors are the HP Z series and Dell Precision series desktops.

 

[m1maverick]

Really, I don't understand these people at all. An incredible number of recording studios, movie studios use the Mac Pro as a failsafe machine. It's a computer for 1% of the people, but it completely fulfills its function.

I'm not really sure why someone like yourself would have a difficult time understanding why people are disappointed / upset with this new Mac Pro. It's almost the same situation as 2013. They took capable systems (5,1 and 7,1) and neutered them (6,1 and 8,1) to the point where they are no longer suitable for people who were using them.

What's the point of having 2 x 16 and 4 x 8 PCIe 4 slots when the singular thing most important thing that needs PCIe slots, GPUs, cannot be used in them? IMO one of the biggest issues with the 6,1 was the inability to upgrade its GPUs. What Apple released in 2013 was what Apple was selling in 2018. I see the same issue with the 2023 Mac Pro. Today its GPU might be competitive. But what happens a few years down the road. Despite having PCIe 4 slots and ample cooling one cannot install a new GPU. Those slots are sitting there mocking you.

 

[m1maverick]

MaxTech doesn't know what the hell he's talking about usually. His channel used to be decent but is now just clickbait garbage with incorrect testing methods. I remember him dogging the M2 Air yet my real world experience had me running stuff on it (just fine) that most people would buy a workstation for. Applications like Houdini, Final Cut, Logic, ZBrush, Blender, Xcode, etc all ran just fine without overheating, yet if you watched his original videos you'd think the M2 Air was the worst machine out there.

I really don't understand the hate for MaxTech on MR. I find him annoying (over use of the word insane, at least when I watched his channel about a year ago) but he does appear to have some good information. For example I recall a video where he tested the improvement of the M1 Studio with 48 cores versus the 64 core model and found it didn't scale well (except in I think in one test). He said something about it being a flaw in the M1 Ultra design Rumors are the M2 Studio solved that issue. If true he appears to have hit the nail right on the head.

 

[curnalpanic]

PowerMac G4 [...] It had ECC memory

G4 never had ECC. Sorry.

 

[Septercius]

I really don't understand the hate for MaxTech on MR. I find him annoying (over use of the word insane, at least when I watched his channel about a year ago) but he does appear to have some good information. For example I recall a video where he tested the improvement of the M1 Studio with 48 cores versus the 64 core model and found it didn't scale well (except in I think in one test). He said something about it being a flaw in the M1 Ultra design Rumors are the M2 Studio solved that issue. If true he appears to have hit the nail right on the head.

Criticism is not "hate". Racism, homophobia, sexism and so on are "hate". Being negative about some random YouTube person isn't even in the same ballpark.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I do not think it's a like for like comparison using a home built PC to the Mac Pro. IMO its real competitors are the HP Z series and Dell Precision series desktops.

Yes, it is. Apparently you didn’t read the list of parts. Those are the components that come in a HP or Dell workstation. The goal is to see how a DIY workstation compares to the Mac Pro.

It came to $6,941.70 with some thermal paste thrown in. The 16 core Xeon CPU has similar benchmark scores as M2 Ultra. The GPU is much faster, especially compared to the 60 core GPU you get for $6,999.

Of course most people will elect to use gaming PC parts which brings the cost down more (non-Xeon CPU, non-workstation GPU, and non-ECC RAM). The goal however is to configure what a Mac Pro would have been if it stayed Intel.

 

[MisterAndrew]

This is true, but your missing one thing, at least you can upgrade your PC workstation for a fraction of the cost of a new M3 in 2 years time.

Yes, that’s the big advantage. Except on the other hand in a few years all those components will become obsolete as new ones are introduced. So the logic board, CPU, SSD, RAM, and GPU will need to be upgraded. Let’s assume you used workstation components, not gaming PC parts, and assuming the prices are the same in a few years (as they are to the ones I added to my Newegg cart) upgrading those costs $6363. That’s assuming the case and power supply can be re-used.

The price of a new M3 or M4 Mac Pro with trade-in of the old M2 Mac Pro is probably not far off.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think this release was basically pushed out to get totally off of Intel and ultimately kill the MacPro

They boxed it into such a niche and overpriced it so much that the sales will be poor, which will give them internal justification to axe the whole thing

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

From another thread:

Apple M2 Ultra SoC Isn't Faster Than AMD & Intel Last Year Desktop CPUs, 50% Slower Than NVIDIA RTX 4080

Apple's M2 Ultra SoC is being benchmarked right and left and we can compare those numbers to AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA chips.

wccftech.com

From another post but I do think it applies here and does make the Mac Pro seem like a scam: The more I think about these benchmarks the more shocked I am. The “ultra” version of this chip doesn’t even keep up with a middling intel desktop. Its graphics do not keep up with a woefully old and 6900xt. Yet they have the audacity to charge $7k for this pile of garbage.

Short headline version, apple woefully loses the desktop and cannot compete in any way.

Wow.

Apple is just dead at the desktop level and completely cannot compete. What is pathetic is their top of the line machine at $7k cannot even compete at the mid level desktop market…we don’t even get to the high end. Oh my goodness what a tragedy.

Further, that means *the only way* apple could even begin to hope to become competitive is to get an m3 extreme out as soon as possible and make it have 3rd party graphic card support, or they are out of the competition permantly.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something. Please someone correct me. I’m honestly in shock at how bad these numbers compare. I’m praying I’m missing something here. This is just too sad to be correct?!

 

[MisterAndrew]

If I was buying the new Mac Pro I would get it with the 76 core GPU and 192GB unified RAM which makes it $9,599. To get the DIY workstation up to par with a 36 core Xeon W9-3475X, 128 GB DDR5 ECC RAM, and a Radeon Pro W7900 with 48 GB VRAM pushes it to about $10,705. The PC workstation would be faster, but costs more and can't run macOS. The Mac Pro besides being non-upgradeable is a better buy.

The Newegg DIY workstation is pretty much exactly what Puget Systems is offering with the same ASUS motherboard, except they don't offer the Radeon Pro GPUs, only Nvidia. Their price with the same 36 core Xeon and a RTX 4070 Ti is $10,717 with a 1000W PSU. So the DIY workstation is a better buy if you're going the PC route. It also looks like Puget Systems uses the exact same case I added to my Newegg cart, the "Fractal Design Define 7 XL Black Brushed Aluminum / Steel E-ATX Silent Modular Full Tower Computer Case."

 

[m1maverick]

Criticism is not "hate". Racism, homophobia, sexism and so on are "hate". Being negative about some random YouTube person isn't even in the same ballpark.

IMO it comes across as hate.

 

[russell_314]

MaxTech doesn't know what the hell he's talking about usually. His channel used to be decent but is now just clickbait garbage with incorrect testing methods. I remember him dogging the M2 Air yet my real world experience had me running stuff on it (just fine) that most people would buy a workstation for. Applications like Houdini, Final Cut, Logic, ZBrush, Blender, Xcode, etc all ran just fine without overheating, yet if you watched his original videos you'd think the M2 Air was the worst machine out there.

I totally agree. He’s found out that trolling Apple is getting him attention from the people who don’t like Apple. I think I can say that because I don’t know if I can use the H word. More attention means more views on his video and more subscribers, which means more money. He’s making money off of this so I would do it too.

He might as well just get it over and form a partnership with Louis Rossman. I think they would attract the same audience.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

If I was buying the new Mac Pro I would get it with the 76 core GPU and 192GB unified RAM which makes it $9,599. To get the DIY workstation up to par with a 36 core Xeon W9-3475X, 128 GB DDR5 ECC RAM, and a Radeon Pro W7900 with 48 GB VRAM pushes it to about $10,705. The PC workstation would be faster, but costs more and can't run macOS. The Mac Pro besides being non-upgradeable is a better buy.

Perhaps I’m misreading the benchmarks but it seems you don’t need to go that high end on the Intel side. A mid level pc for $2500 will be enough to soundly trounce the top end 8,1 Mac.

 

[russell_314]

IMO it comes across as hate.

It’s just dislike. I don’t really like iJustine. To me she’s like fingernails on a chalkboard, but I don’t have any hate for her. Max tech has made his YouTube channel about trolling Apple products. If that’s how he makes money that’s fine but it’s not something I’m going to like. I don’t hate him or his channel.