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Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
So I managed to boot up a cMP system I work with in a recording studio using the Radeon VII I bought.
What I did to boot was what I was asking, I plugged my M2 drive and the Radeon VII into a PC, configured the MOBO to run in UEFI, booted my win10 partition in UEFI mode and turned the pc off after I got image.
Plugged the Radeon VII to the cMP on the studio and this time I got a boot screen (with stutters) and I could boot into Mac OS or Windows 10. The card was working flawlessly and did some tests using UE5 and some benchmarks.
Came back home and plugged the Radeon VII back into my own cMP but to my surprise I wasn't getting image again.
Thoughts? :p
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
So I managed to boot up a cMP system I work with in a recording studio using the Radeon VII I bought.
What I did to boot was what I was asking, I plugged my M2 drive and the Radeon VII into a PC, configured the MOBO to run in UEFI, booted my win10 partition in UEFI mode and turned the pc off after I got image.
Plugged the Radeon VII to the cMP on the studio and this time I got a boot screen (with stutters) and I could boot into Mac OS or Windows 10. The card was working flawlessly and did some tests using UE5 and some benchmarks.
Came back home and plugged the Radeon VII back into my own cMP but to my surprise I wasn't getting image again.
Thoughts? :p
Either OpenCore is not properly installed / config on your home cMP (which we went through before, so, shouldn't be the root cause).

Or the card is not powered correctly in your home cMP (high chance now. In fact, this happen from time to time. Even some people did Pixlas mod, but the cable / connector may not properly connected. This often cost them days to find out.).
 
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Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
Turns out it was my Pixlas Mod.
Somehow one of the 2 8 pin connectors on the Pixlas cable seems to be providing less power.
Plugged in a dual 6 pin to 8 pin cable to the 2nd power socket on the Radeon VII and got it working.
Now I get an EFI partition on the opencore boot screen that seems to be the very OC partition, is there any way to remove it from the open core boot screen?
 
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cdf

macrumors 68020
Jul 27, 2012
2,256
2,583
Now I get an EFI partition on the opencore boot screen that seems to be the very OC partition, is there any way to remove it from the open core boot screen?
Starting with version 0.8.8, OC will not hide itself unless a hidden file ".contentVisibility" with the text "Disabled" is included in EFI/BOOT.
 

Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
Is there a way to make my win10 or MacOS partitions the one that appears selected on the opencore bootscreen?
whenever I boot my machine its always selecting the EFI partition and sometimes I miss the 10 second window, before I switched to 0.8.8 the first selected partition was the win10, i would like to configure it to have it like that, is it possible?
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Is there a way to make my win10 or MacOS partitions the one that appears selected on the opencore bootscreen?
whenever I boot my machine its always selecting the EFI partition and sometimes I miss the 10 second window, before I switched to 0.8.8 the first selected partition was the win10, i would like to configure it to have it like that, is it possible?
Select your default entry, and press Control + Enter.

Or simply select your macOS as the default boot drive in system preferences. OpenCore boot picker will obey that.
 
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Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
Well, I think I learned a lot from this Radeon VII experience hahahaha, thank you Martin and everyone involved, love this community.
Big hug to y'all, have a great weekend!!!
 

Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
Sooooo... something weird happened after I selected my windows partition with Control + Enter.
I use a firewire audio sound card to produce music, I was using my MOTU ultralite mk3 sound card as usual before I restarted and performed the Control + Enter sequence to select my win 10 partition as the default selected partition on the OC boot screen.

Here a list of things that happened:
1. the EFI partition on bootscreen disappeared (awesome).
2. Succesfully managed to have win10 as default selected partition on OC (awsome x2).
3. Buuuuut my MOTU firewire sound card is not being recognized by my cMP on MacOS or Win10.

I tried to revert this by "installing" OC 0.8.8 with the default settings Martin provided on the latest release (which I was using before the Control + Enter procedure), thought that would do the trick but I still can't see the EFI partition on the boot screen or my MOTU sound card on any OS.
I even reinstalled the driver on MacOS and Win10 without any luck, on Win 10 the driver installer package recognized my MOTU card as connected when installing the software, but after the restart I still couldn't see it on my audio devices on any OS.

Thoughts?
 

Bob Lodge

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Aug 22, 2021
26
1
Alright so I've tried every FW port on my cMP 5.1 and I even removed the OC HDD and tried booting my native mojave partition, installed the driver and I still can't see my MOTU audio interface.
Switched to my macbook pro 2012 and my MOTU card works just fine.
As I mentioned before, this was working great until I changed the default selected partition on OC boot screen.
 

rivangom

macrumors member
Aug 9, 2019
41
13
Amsterdam
Thank you for responding so fast!
Seems like I already had it enabled.
Still not getting image, could there be another setting preventing me from getting image?
What's the correct way of installing a Radeon VII GPU?

For boot screen, Radeon VII need DirectGopRendering, which the RX590 may not, you better check if you enabled this option in the OpenCore config.

Since Catalina cannot be run on the cMP without patching. If you pull out the OC drive but you can still boot to that with your RX590. This is only possible because you patched Catalina.

For patched macOS, the GPU driver somehow may be "locked" to the GPU that ran the macOS installer. This can also explain why the GPU driver doesn't load for the Radeon VII, and you can't see anything.

In your case, I will say the first thing to try is just enable DirectGopRendering.
Dear both, I have a similar challenge with the Radeon VII where with the OC v. 0.9.1 from Martin Lo I don't get the bootscreen and it goes direct to the logon screen of Monterey. I have DirectGopRendering in the config.plist line 1329 on line 1330 <true/>. Do I miss anything to get the OC bootscreen/picker with this Radeon VII? It also fails to have the other DP ports (2,3) connected. Untouched the config.plist with my Radeon Vega 64 I has the OC bootscreen/picker and also the two DP ports connected with dual Display setup.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Dear both, I have a similar challenge with the Radeon VII where with the OC v. 0.9.1 from Martin Lo I don't get the bootscreen and it goes direct to the logon screen of Monterey. I have DirectGopRendering in the config.plist line 1329 on line 1330 <true/>. Do I miss anything to get the OC bootscreen/picker with this Radeon VII? It also fails to have the other DP ports (2,3) connected. Untouched the config.plist with my Radeon Vega 64 I has the OC bootscreen/picker and also the two DP ports connected with dual Display setup.
Do this to enable other Display ports

If your Radeon VII cannot display boot screen, most likely it's with the older incompatible firmware. You may go to TechPowerUp, download the newer firmware, and flash your card.
 
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paul_bace

macrumors member
May 10, 2021
61
14
Toronto
So, been reading through this thread and have some questions I hope someone might have answers too.

Managed to get hands on a Radeon Pro VII for a really great price ($0) through some clever dealings. It only draws 250w apparently, so hoping it was plug and play (only 6+8 pins). I was using a Gigabyte 5700XT Before with no issues.

Today I gave a straight switch on my OCLP Monterey install, using MiniDP > HDMI adapters, and it booted, but half way through boot screen it went black, then popped back at Logon. It would work ok for a bit, then just shut off (the screen that is, like signal loss but not, because the screen didn’t go into sleep mode, just went black)

Things I’ve tried;
-Fresh install
-Pulling everything drawing power but boot SATA and GPU
-SYMBIOS up to moderate
-6,1 Spoof
-Mojave Install (have one just Incase)

Yet to try
-MiniPD > DP Cable (arriving tomorrow)
-Pixlas (kit in storage but already have it and done one for a friend)

I was obviously hoping the lower power draw might mean I could get away without Pixlas.

The card was pulled from a PC, is it possible I need to do a Bios update? Is the Radeon Pro VII same as regular VII? Is it possible the previous owner overclocked it? Increasing the power draw?

Specs of cMP should be in sig.

My next move is to boot it up in the PC it was pulled from. For some reason the previous owner had the Pro VII with a GT 1030 in the machine. I can only assume to avoid using MiniDP ports? Or maybe it had another issue like this non UEFI bios? Maybe the 1030 was a quick fix at the time.

Any wisdom, or ideas to try would be GREATLY appreciated. Right now my 5700XT is back in and working as it was. Which is quite well.

Worst case I sell the Radeon Pro VII and get the 6800XT which I know works great (with Pixlas obvi). I was just hoping the extra 16gb HBM2 might help with video work I’ve been doing lately.

Thanks in advance for reading and offering insight!
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
Today I gave a straight switch on my OCLP Monterey install, using MiniDP > HDMI adapters, and it booted, but half way through boot screen it went black, then popped back at Logon. It would work ok for a bit, then just shut off (the screen that is, like signal loss but not, because the screen didn’t go into sleep mode, just went black)
Many OCLP users reported similar issue when they swap graphic card.

-Mojave Install (have one just Incase)
Assuming that's unpatched 10.14.6 (not via OpenCore), the Radeon Pro VII should work natively. Any Mojave before 10.14.5 has no support for Radeon Pro VII.

is it possible I need to do a Bios update?
Most likely not required, BIOS update is mainly for providing boot screen with EnableGOP. In your case, the card doesn't work inside macOS after driver is loaded. That usually not BIOS related.

But if you find a newer BIOS for your card, nothing wrong to update that (make sure you have the existing ROM backup properly).

Is the Radeon Pro VII same as regular VII?
Same chip, different max clock speed (this is where that 50W difference coming from).

Is it possible the previous owner overclocked it? Increasing the power draw?
Extremely unlikely that the previous owner overclocked this card by flashing a modded BIOS to the card.

-Pulling everything drawing power but boot SATA and GPU
Most likely won't help. If the PSU is that weak, then the 5700XT will also has issue.

-Fresh install
Fresh Monterey installation from scratch with the Radeon Pro VII? This should work.
 

tootansimooon

macrumors newbie
Jun 17, 2023
14
0
Many OCLP users reported similar issue when they swap graphic card.


Assuming that's unpatched 10.14.6 (not via OpenCore), the Radeon Pro VII should work natively. Any Mojave before 10.14.5 has no support for Radeon Pro VII.


Most likely not required, BIOS update is mainly for providing boot screen with EnableGOP. In your case, the card doesn't work inside macOS after driver is loaded. That usually not BIOS related.

But if you find a newer BIOS for your card, nothing wrong to update that (make sure you have the existing ROM backup properly).


Same chip, different max clock speed (this is where that 50W difference coming from).


Extremely unlikely that the previous owner overclocked this card by flashing a modded BIOS to the card.


Most likely won't help. If the PSU is that weak, then the 5700XT will also has issue.


Fresh Monterey installation from scratch with the Radeon Pro VII? This should work.
So, just to confirm. This card should (theoretically) work in a cmp with 10.14.6?

Also, should (theoretically) work without Pixla's mod... ?

@paul_bace
let me know if you have any luck/advice :)


Cheers!!
 

paul_bace

macrumors member
May 10, 2021
61
14
Toronto
Correct and correct
So, as I mentioned my 5700XT has no problems for the last 6 months, other than not really performing as well as I’d hoped.

I did have some troubles connecting my TV (super old LG 1080p) via HDMI, and solved with DP-HDMI cabling.

UPDATE: Cable arrived, and it’s working fine. Even the TV is now plugged in via MiniDP>HDMI and picture quality seems better (maybe my imagination).

Of course the geekbench score is lower, but I get the PCIE back, and the 16gb HBM2 VRAM. Not sure how that might translate to video rendering, vs geekbench. My VRAM is always maxed when exporting projects but GPU processor maybe 36% on the 5700 XT. Same project on 2017 iMac with RX 580, is much faster using 100% of the GPU processor.

If you (or anyone) knows why that might be, I’d appreciate the input.

I get the 5,1 has super old processors, but Xeon 12c 3.46 vs i5 4c 3.8ghz can’t be that much of a difference?

UPDATE: Just ran some exports with final cut and still the GPU processor is using only 25-35%, Davinci no more than 20%. That said some other things seems smoother, like there's no lag when using screen remote, so that's a bonus.
 
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h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
So, as I mentioned my 5700XT has no problems for the last 6 months, other than not really performing as well as I’d hoped.

I did have some troubles connecting my TV (super old LG 1080p) via HDMI, and solved with DP-HDMI cabling.

UPDATE: Cable arrived, and it’s working fine. Even the TV is now plugged in via MiniDP>HDMI and picture quality seems better (maybe my imagination).

Of course the geekbench score is lower, but I get the PCIE back, and the 16gb HBM2 VRAM. Not sure how that might translate to video rendering, vs geekbench. My VRAM is always maxed when exporting projects but GPU processor maybe 36% on the 5700 XT. Same project on 2017 iMac with RX 580, is much faster using 100% of the GPU processor.

If you (or anyone) knows why that might be, I’d appreciate the input.

I get the 5,1 has super old processors, but Xeon 12c 3.46 vs i5 4c 3.8ghz can’t be that much of a difference?

UPDATE: Just ran some exports with final cut and still the GPU processor is using only 25-35%, Davinci no more than 20%. That said some other things seems smoother, like there's no lag when using screen remote, so that's a bonus.
It's hard to tell what's wrong.

1) Xeon 12C 3.46 vs i5 4C 3.8 isn't a good comparason. It looks like "just" 0.34GHz, which is just 10% clock speed difference. However, the 7600K is a much newer CPU, which has a much more efficient architecture. Therefore, the 7600K actually can do ~35% better than X5690 in single thread performance.

So, even though the software can use multi thread. But there is always one main thread. If that main thread is the bottleneck, then the 7600K will able to do ~35% faster.

2) Hardware encoding vs software encoding. I am not sure if you are using GPU's hardware encoding on the cMP. If not, and you are exporting H264 / HEVC. Then you may comparing hardware (iMac) to software encoding (cMP). This can also make a big difference.

e.g. On the iMac, the hardware encoding is fast. Therefore, the bottleneck is on the GPU rendering. That's why you can see the GPU is 100% utilised. It's because the GPU itself is the bottleneck.

But on cMP, if you are using software encoding, then the CPU encoding speed may be the actual bottleneck. Therefore, the GPU no need to work to 100%, because it is waiting for the CPU to free up to accept more frames. Therefore, you may only see ~36% utilisation.

If you have very fast storage, you may try to export ProRes in FCP, and see if that give you higher GPU utilisation rate. If yes, then "encoding speed" most likely is the bottleneck on your cMP.

N.B. All the above assume background rendering is disabled. Otherwise, if the timeline is pre-rendered, then of course the GPU doesn't need to work that hard during export (encoding).
 
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paul_bace

macrumors member
May 10, 2021
61
14
Toronto
It's hard to tell what's wrong.

1) Xeon 12C 3.46 vs i5 4C 3.8 isn't a good comparason. It looks like "just" 0.34GHz, which is just 10% clock speed difference. However, the 7600K is a much newer CPU, which has a much more efficient architecture. Therefore, the 7600K actually can do ~35% better than X5690 in single thread performance.

So, even though the software can use multi thread. But there is always one main thread. If that main thread is the bottleneck, then the 7600K will able to do ~35% faster.

2) Hardware encoding vs software encoding. I am not sure if you are using GPU's hardware encoding on the cMP. If not, and you are exporting H264 / HEVC. Then you may comparing hardware (iMac) to software encoding (cMP). This can also make a big difference.

e.g. On the iMac, the hardware encoding is fast. Therefore, the bottleneck is on the GPU rendering. That's why you can see the GPU is 100% utilised. It's because the GPU itself is the bottleneck.

But on cMP, if you are using software encoding, then the CPU encoding speed may be the actual bottleneck. Therefore, the GPU no need to work to 100%, because it is wait for the CPU to free up to accept more frames. Therefore, you may only see ~36% utilisation.

If you have very fast storage, you may try to export ProRes in FCP, and see if that give you higher GPU utilisation rate. If yes, then "encoding speed" most likely is the bottleneck on your cMP.

N.B. All the above assume background rendering is disabled. Otherwise, if the timeline is pre-rendered, then of course the GPU doesn't need to work that hard during export (encoding).
Okay this makes sense. I actually don't know what Opencore does (is it software encoding?) to allow for Hardware Acceleration. But I do have it turned on. VideoProc shows it enabled. Storage wise I'm using an NVME for render cache/library files. Boot drive is a SATA drive, which I'm going to switch to an old Apple SSD that's the same speed as the NVME. Then possibly pick up a dual NVME card with bifurcation to RAID them and get up to 2500mb/s R/W for the cache/library files. Is it possible that having the software itself (final cut/davinci) on the SATA SSD, instead of NVME might be a bottleneck?

Thanks for your insight by the way!

UPDATE: So completely deleted any render files in FCPX for the ProRes export, and still getting 30% usage and cores aren't even 100% (not even a single core is maxed out).
 

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paul_bace

macrumors member
May 10, 2021
61
14
Toronto
So just been doing some reading and full disclosure, I'm using OCLP. Latest, Latest. That said I was curious what was in my EFI so mounted using CloverConfig, and there's two folders; 'EFI' and 'System'. I haven't opened the EFI that way since starting to use OCLP (Originally using your package so thankyou btw), so assuming the 'System' folder this is from that? Also the EFI has an 'APPLE' and 'OC' folder. Different from your package.

From what I understood, OCLP enabled HWAccel. I guess maybe I should remove everything and do a fresh install of Mojave and try your package to see if anything is different. (Need to do a BootRom dump anyway).

Again, thanks for the insight and all your work on keeping these cMP alive! Specially for creators!
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
16,656
8,587
Hong Kong
UPDATE: So completely deleted any render files in FCPX for the ProRes export, and still getting 30% usage and cores aren't even 100% (not even a single core is maxed out).
From that screen capture only, it looks like your cMP was using hardware encoding, but still too slow. Therefore the GPU loading is low, the CPU loading is also low. Only the GPU's media engine is working hard. However, the media engine's utilisation doesn't count as GPU loading. Therefore, you can't see it.

May I know what's the actual performance difference between your cMP and iMac to export the same timeline?

Anyway, 257% CPU loading in FCP can mean single thread limiting.

Single thread limiting doesn't mean "only one CPU core is doing the job", but "the job can only be done by one thread at a time".

Which means, if you have a 10 threads CPU, and each CPU core only has 10Hz. And Thread 1 does the 1st step, Thread 2 doesn the 2nd step, Thread 3 does the 3rd step.....

After 1 second, Activity monitor will show you the CPU is at 100% loading only (in macOS, for a 10 threads CPU, it can max at 1000%. So, 100% is very low). And each thread only has 10% loading.

However, due to thread 2 cannot to step 2 until thread 1 finish its job. And thread 3 cannot start to do the job until thread 2 finish the calculation...

Therefore, even each core only has 10% load. It is single thread performance limiting.

Since the CPU has internal logic to balance the work load (to balance the heat produced between cores). Therefore, the more cores you have, the harder you can see if that's really single thread limiting.
 
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