MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...

[avkills]

I think you meant to say "nooooVidia....." 🤣

 

[mode11]

No nVidia of course for sure, now WHY would we want what

I think Apple would like to keep CUDA off the Mac platform, due to it being so popular with pro applications. Vendors would just support that, as they already do on Windows, and forget about Metal.

I suspect Apple would have only allowed Nvidia GPUs if Nvidia agreed to leave CUDA support out of their drivers (and not make it trivial to install via a separate download), and Nvidia weren't interested.

Plus being the dominant GPU vendor, Nvidia can't be bullied on price like AMD. Apple can get a better volume discount from the latter, and given Mac users have no say in what they're given, that's that.

It would be different if Apple only supported Nvidia. Then there would be a clear case that they only want to invest resources in supporting one vendor, and just chose the leader.

 

[mikas]

I believe you are right with that. I have thought about that too.

 

[mikas]

Still, thinking about having cuda and all that nVidia stuff on Mac too..

 

[mode11]

It would be nice. I get that Apple would want optimise for one GPU vendor / architecture, but it makes no sense that that vendor is AMD. Not to hate on AMD - they make good value GPUs - but there's clearly other factors at work here.

And it's not just due to some dodgy laptop GPUs in Santa Rosa MBPs. AMD have had their own issues in that regard.

Nvidia certainly seem to be d-bags in various regards, but that partly comes from being the incumbent. Intel weren't much different. Everyone's nice when they're no. 2. In any case, this is business - Apple could have worked it out.

 

[H. Flower]

This rumour seems ridiculous. The best Gurman can come up with regarding filling the case is:

"As for the seemingly large empty space that would remain in the unchanging tower case, Gurman suggests it could accommodate a larger cooling system, which would differentiate it from the Mac Studio by affording significantly faster performance."

This is nonsense. The Studio is already whisper quiet running an Ultra. There is no reason Apple would have left performance on the table, just to save a few Watts from the wall. The Ultra has a comparatively massive copper heatsink - if it needed to sink more heat, it could do. Plus, the Studio form factor was all-new. If it needed to be e.g. an inch taller to accommodate an even bigger heatsink, for greater performance, it would have been.

The single-thread performance of AS is pretty consistent across the range. This is likely for architectural reasons. It's unlikely the clock speed could be significantly increased, even with unlimited cooling.

If Apple put the equivalent of an ITX motherboard in the existing case, with most of the PCIe slots blocked off with a blanking plate, it will be an absolute joke. Especially if PCIe GPUs are unsupported, it would offer next to no benefit over a Studio and sink like a stone in the market. Whilst I'm not confident of Apple's commitment to an expandable Mac Pro, that level of incompetence is unthinkable.

Agreed, this rumor is nonsense.

 

[aytan]

I can easily see where you're coming from, that's not the problem. Like you, I would much prefer a new version of the 7.1 where they just swapped out the Intel Xeon for Apple Silicon and made the necessary adjustments to let macOS pool all available resources for GPU compute work.

Compared to the Trashcan, I think an 8.1 with good possibilities of internal expansion (especially cheap OG disk space), or fast 3rd party raided SSDs makes all the difference.

Considering how responsive my MacBook Pro M1 Max 32-core already is in Blender and DaVinci, I don't think working in those types of software with a M2 Ultra 76-core GPU Mac Pro will be a problem at all.
I have noticed that when it comes to 3D, I'm becoming more interested in realtime viewport performance and responsive realtime viewport rendering, than absolute 'final render times'. I think it's smarter to outsource large projects or animations to render farms anyway (and bill the client).

Of course, that does little to change the fact that the industry is annoyingly reliant on Optix, or that Apple's own (old) MPX modules still outperform the not even announced Mac Pro. Especially when multiplied.

All in all, it's a bit of a more apologetic take on the whole situation, but it is also what I have expected since we first heard about the Apple Silicon transition. Perhaps I was hoping for 128-core or even 256-core GPU at some point, but it was easy to see how impractical that would be to manufacture.

I wonder if they had an Extreme 152-core Mac Pro up and running.

I have read down every single posts on this topic, I m not a technician or do not have knowledge about 2019 MacPro's as you knows. I still use base Ultra for 3D on C4D / Redshift. Last 6 months I use this machine every single day. All I can say is I have no complains about it, before that I have bought Studio Max and not works well for me on 3D workflows. I tested and believe simply AS Max is not enough for 3D. If there will be an M2 or M3 Ultra with more than 76 GPU cores and 24 or higher CPU cores this machine will be great. If anyone works as a freelancer this machine will be enough. Everyone spot on only one topic 'Rendering' or 'GPU' power, WX duo's or more, but in real world there are different tasks on 3D workflows. As an example, calculating simple simulations are great on M1 Ultra or ZBrush Texture map Unwraping or creating large scale Displacement maps, sculpting with extreme poly counts or working multiple software at same time. These are all works well with 20 core CPU which Ultra have already. All I want from AS MP is 128 GB unified memory x2 GPU and CPU cores of M1 Ultra. These all around machine could be fine for a large amount of 3D artists.

Optix is not a ''Real Solution'' for every scene and could be fragile in some cases or animation scenes. But it's quite useful for mid / low budget works. I believe there is only one ''real'' solution for reliable 3D rendering and its still CPU base rendering. If AS MP could have +40 CPU cores this will be amazing. Because right now 20 cores do not help at all on Arnold or VRay based on CPU rendering. 20 core CPU is fast on CPU rendering but simply not enough.

I wish I could Have 2019 Mac Pro but with this price tags it's simply impossible for a lot of freelancers. It' s a fantastic piece of tech with all expansion options you could built up a wonder, but how much it costs ? You could buy a simple flat still in some countries on this planet.

More or less 2019 Mac Pro with M1 Ultra specs costs more than 15.000 USD.

At the end, one way or another there will be an AS MP with expansion slots or not, no one could be sure about how this will end. All I could say is everyone underestimated M1 Ultra and large amount of them will also underestimate future AS MP. With this price gap compare M1 Ultra / 2019 MP my obvious choice still M1 Ultra and I believe Apple also thinks on this direction too.

I still use simple mid level NVidia GPU on PC beside of Ultra, I did nearly all my workflow on Ultra and sometimes I use my midrange PC only for rendering and keep up working for other tasks on Ultra. All set up cost me 7.600 USD with cheap 32'' screens, external drives, Wacom intuos pro ext.

I believe, if Apple could pack up an AS MP 24+ CPU cores and 76+ GPU cores with a few expansion options like 7.500 USD this machine will be great. Maybe technicians or who got a lot of knowledge about computer tech will not call it ''Mac Pro'' but lots of users will go for it.

 

[fuchsdh]

Still, thinking about having cuda and all that nVidia stuff on Mac too..

You might consider actually combining your thoughts. It's a forum, not a stream-of-conciousness microblog.

 

[maikerukun]

What about during the summer?

Again, I DON'T CARE. Hell I already spend 97% of my day naked anyways "only put on a robe to open the door and receive packages from Amazon and Uber Eats lolol."

 

[maikerukun]

I am too entrenched into the Adobe eco system. But if they really start getting "really, really" bad then that is the option to go with. iMovie Pro *cough* I mean Final Cut will never get my support.

First of all STOP. FCPX is not iMovie Pro and how dare you lol.

In all seriousness, I only use Avid when working on studio projects, Premiere when working with the uninformed and FCPX literally ANY OTHER TIME. It is lightning fast, has a ridiculous array of plugins that turn it into something akin to what the gods would choose, and I can cut in it at least 65% faster than anyone in anything else.

It's godly software and you are doing yourself a disservice not using it.

I use After Effects only because I've worked in it for a decade and I don't have time to really become professionally proficient in Nuke.

Resolve is my primary choice for feature film grading but when it comes to commercials and music videos, quite Franky, FCPX also has a proficient workflow for that.

I'm still not on board with editing in Resolve, but not because it isn't good, but just because it's about equivalent to Premiere for editing and at that point I'd rather use Premiere.

Anyway the point is stop slandering FCPX, it is without question the best Editing Suite out there to anyone other than the uninitiated lol.

 

[maikerukun]

Why? Everyone I know who’s tried it for actual commercial work says it’s amazing and extremely fast. Full disclosure: I use Resolve and haven’t tried Final Cut Pro X.

You're not wrong.

 

[maikerukun]

They lost me when they when to a trackless model. I was using Final Cut 7 and then X came out; old projects not being able to be used, etc etc. Apple just left a very sour resentment over the release of FCP X.

I should try resolve since it would utilize my GPUs better; but I am holding over hope for Premier. When Adobe doesn't break the integration between AfterEffects and Premiere, it is pretty slick. Unfortunately they almost always break it whenever there is a major update. 🤣

Bro it's a new world, yes they botched the launch and should've released it as a beta alongside an FCP8 and phased out over several years...however, what it is today...I'm telling you...give it a chance. And by the way, if you don't like the trackless aspect, just throw a blank on the primary timeline and stretch it out over the time length of your project, then it's back to a regular NLE.

 

[maikerukun]

Honestly I really wish they’d scrap this limp gimp pile of crap iteration of the pro, which is too close to a trashcan than the 7,1, and wait for the M3 to do it right, with an extreme and with 3rd party gpu support.

If this is correct, and we have pci with no gpu upgrade ability (and the lame no-better-than-studio ultra processor), I’m not getting this machine and clutching to my 7,1 for dear life and probably looking to exit apple permen’s toy.

Loser machine.

You know it pains me more than most to say this but...same.

 

[maikerukun]

I think you are a bit too pessimistic about the new Mac Pro.

Or, at least, you seem to judge the Mac Pro after your own needs and wishes. On some level, that is what we all have to do when it comes to buying it or not, but I don't think it's a fair benchmark on how to judge Apple's efforts 'in context'.

I also think that waiting for M3 does little to solve your problems. It will only keep iterating on what the M2 is. I wouldn't expect major architectural changes like: the M2 doesn't support GPUs, but the M3 does.

I can't say that I have dug deep into the M2 benchmarks, but my impression was that the speed bump was quite OK compared to M1?

But it seems likely that there will be a shift within the user group. Apple will lose some customers and gain new ones. The ones who end up buying the Mac Pro will be very happy with it.

It just makes LITERALLY NO SENSE...why bother calling it a Mac Pro...it's literally just the ultimate Mac Studio.

Either upgrade the 2019 Mac Pro 7.1 with new GPU's and a higher CPU core count, or drop the d@mn name :/

 

[maikerukun]

The ‘it works for some people’ argument was used to prop up the dead-parrot trashcan. An apple admitted loser machine. It’s a lame argument. Part of apple’s apology tour admitted that pros have a wide, crazy wide, sets of needs and the machine needs to support all those crazy ‘everything’ niches.

Inability to have huge ram, to have 3rd party video destroys too many of those niches. It means it’s not a pro/enthusiast machine capable of servicing a super wide array of niches, but instead a narrow specialist niche machine, just like the trashcan was. If you just happen to fit the suit, Greg, it’s great. But in the end, a loser machine.

Obviously YMMV, but, IMO, it’s perfectly fair. 20% speed bump is nice but meh. Inability to support GPUs just gave the finger to 3D/video and deep science work. Perhaps this glorified trashcan works for you, that’s great. The trashcan worked for some but the Mac Pro needs to be a super inclusive machine, not a specific niche machine, but an every niche machine.

The trashcan failed because it was a specific niche machine and not an every niche machine. So by limiting ram and not providing 3rd party gpu options, it ignores history of what pro/enthusiasts need/want and history of what such machines have suppled basically through most of history. And it forgets that apple apologized for making a specific niche machine, and said one of the important lessons they learned and were designing into the 7,1 as a remedy for those failures is to serve a wide variety of niches, an every niche machine.

And for the record, it probably could work for me, at least today. But I need it to support whatever crazy thing I want to do that apple didn’t foresee, tomorrow. And apple has been pretty **** at basics, much less reading the minds of people in the future. Any day now we’ll get that table of authorities feature in Pages, or the exotic ability to customize paragraph numbering.

But I digress.

If it lacks 3rd party gpu support: loser machine.

I mean...this...all of this...and exactly.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I believe, if Apple could pack up an AS MP 24+ CPU cores and 76+ GPU cores with a few expansion options like 7.500 USD this machine will be great. Maybe technicians or who got a lot of knowledge about computer tech will not call it ''Mac Pro'' but lots of users will go for it.

The old 'it works for me so f'u' argument also used to justify the mistakes of the dead-parrot trashcan Mac.

Sir, this parrot no more...this is an X parrot.

 

[maikerukun]

you can’t sell a Mac Pro with 76 m2 gpu cores to a pro colorist/3d artist/scientist with big gpu demand. Who is this machine supposed to be for? This is the crowd that needs the extra pci slots for their video cards and ssd raids and stuff.
I still believe there’s gonna be afterburner or mpx style apple gpu upgrade kits, I just don’t see another way.

Bro it sounds crazy that they'd just let us all die lolololol. I can't believe it either...there's gotta be something more and hidden coming.

 

[maikerukun]

I'm not saying it's gonna have another afterburner, I'm saying it's gonna have to have some sort of apple fabricated gpu extension card or something. Like really, they are gonna leave the bottom two MPX slots just empty? Cmon it would be the biggest joke since the 20th anniversary mac. No No No I believe they will figure out a way to add in more gpu cores somehow. About the CPU, it would also be some kind of letdown if there's just an m2 ultra in there, but ok, fine, me personally I don't need more. GPU on the other hand...
I know guys that have two 6800 Duos in their machines and STILL want more. Those are the ones that are gonna buy the new machine, but only if it tops that, and I think Apple knows this, otherwise the mac pro would have already been released.

Bro I'm those guys lololol. I absolutely want more than my 2 w6800xduos...I LOVE my system but what would make it just simply all I ever need is 64 CPU cores alongside a GPU that doubles what I'm running right now...just like the 4090 did with the 3090. Do that and you have me ready to give you all of me lolololololol

 

[aytan]

The old 'it works for me so f'u' argument also used to justify the mistakes of the dead-parrot trashcan Mac.

Sir, this parrot no more...this is an X parrot.

I have no idea why are you against 2013 trashcans, there is still a lot of people using them for video editing or different graphic tasks.
You can easily buy a 2019 Mac Pro today, please go for it.
Maybe it is not enough for you back in 2013 and today it's only a trashcan for you.
Sure it is not perfect machine in 2013 but it works all these years.
BTW I have edited a TV Documentary with one of them 3 weeks ago, yes it is slow sometimes but it works all day long, and the other day, and the other day.....this trashcan is 9 years old...
I guess you could show some respect or you don't
There is a lot of people can not buy brand new machines every other year.

 

[maikerukun]

I have read down every single posts on this topic, I m not a technician or do not have knowledge about 2019 MacPro's as you knows. I still use base Ultra for 3D on C4D / Redshift. Last 6 months I use this machine every single day. All I can say is I have no complains about it, before that I have bought Studio Max and not works well for me on 3D workflows. I tested and believe simply AS Max is not enough for 3D. If there will be an M2 or M3 Ultra with more than 76 GPU cores and 24 or higher CPU cores this machine will be great. If anyone works as a freelancer this machine will be enough. Everyone spot on only one topic 'Rendering' or 'GPU' power, WX duo's or more, but in real world there are different tasks on 3D workflows. As an example, calculating simple simulations are great on M1 Ultra or ZBrush Texture map Unwraping or creating large scale Displacement maps, sculpting with extreme poly counts or working multiple software at same time. These are all works well with 20 core CPU which Ultra have already. All I want from AS MP is 128 GB unified memory x2 GPU and CPU cores of M1 Ultra. These all around machine could be fine for a large amount of 3D artists.

Optix is not a ''Real Solution'' for every scene and could be fragile in some cases or animation scenes. But it's quite useful for mid / low budget works. I believe there is only one ''real'' solution for reliable 3D rendering and its still CPU base rendering. If AS MP could have +40 CPU cores this will be amazing. Because right now 20 cores do not help at all on Arnold or VRay based on CPU rendering. 20 core CPU is fast on CPU rendering but simply not enough.

I wish I could Have 2019 Mac Pro but with this price tags it's simply impossible for a lot of freelancers. It' s a fantastic piece of tech with all expansion options you could built up a wonder, but how much it costs ? You could buy a simple flat still in some countries on this planet.

More or less 2019 Mac Pro with M1 Ultra specs costs more than 15.000 USD.

At the end, one way or another there will be an AS MP with expansion slots or not, no one could be sure about how this will end. All I could say is everyone underestimated M1 Ultra and large amount of them will also underestimate future AS MP. With this price gap compare M1 Ultra / 2019 MP my obvious choice still M1 Ultra and I believe Apple also thinks on this direction too.

I still use simple mid level NVidia GPU on PC beside of Ultra, I did nearly all my workflow on Ultra and sometimes I use my midrange PC only for rendering and keep up working for other tasks on Ultra. All set up cost me 7.600 USD with cheap 32'' screens, external drives, Wacom intuos pro ext.

I believe, if Apple could pack up an AS MP 24+ CPU cores and 76+ GPU cores with a few expansion options like 7.500 USD this machine will be great. Maybe technicians or who got a lot of knowledge about computer tech will not call it ''Mac Pro'' but lots of users will go for it.

I hear you, and I understand what you're saying...but no.

The ENTIRE POINT of the Mac PRO lineup is it isn't just for low to mid range. I'm happy that works for you but it does not work for me "among others here". I have dumped $50k+ into my 2019 Mac Pro and I don't care I will happily dump $100k into an Intel 2023 Mac Pro 8.1 if it doubles the speeds of my current Mac Pro.

Yes, I could buy a simple flat in some countries and with the new one I guess I'd buy two flats...don't care. I have the money and I shouldn't be limited by the fact that M1 Ultra is enough for you

It's a PRO machine, meaning it should absolutely crap on everything else available if I want it to and can afford to make it do so...it should be able to accommodate BOTH OF US...NOT JUST YOU.

The M1 Ultra Mac Studio was made to accommodate YOU, and that's totally fine. I'm happy that exists for you. I have one running my music studio now. But when it comes to working on movies and tv shows and high-end product and music videos as I do...I want my machine to be an absolute monster and I don't want it to ever say no to me and I want it to absolutely scream past anything else available in it's range. I don't buy Mac Pro's to hit limitations. I buy them to FREAKING FLY AND SCREAM AT THE WORLD WHILE THEY DO.

Mac Studios are Velociraptors. Mac Pros are meant to be T-REXs. They are not the same.

 

[maikerukun]

I have no idea why are you against 2013 trashcans, there is still a lot of people using them for video editing or different graphic tasks.
You can easily buy a 2019 Mac Pro today, please go for it.
Maybe it is not enough for you back in 2013 and today it's only a trashcan for you.
Sure it is not perfect machine in 2013 but it works all these years.
BTW I have edited a TV Documentary with one of them 3 weeks ago, yes it is slow sometimes but it works all day long, and the other day, and the other day.....this trashcan is 9 years old...
I guess you could show some respect or you don't
There is a lot of people can not buy brand new machines every other year.

On this point we agree lol. But one thing you're gonna learn about @ZombiePhysicist fast, is he doesn't not like the trashcan, he ABSOLUTELY HATES THEM LOLOLOL.

I just noticed you're new here, so you'll learn everyone's personality quirks over time...but his reason for hating the trashcan make sense. I actually have one as well and use it as a flowerpot at my mom's house lol. It was a decent system, and it's still a usable system if it's all someone has access to. But it runs into the same problems most of us on this thread have with the idea of an AS Mac Pro: EXPANDABILITY.

Apple admitted they screwed up with it not because it wasn't a good computer, but because that's ALL IT WAS...a good computer. It wasn't modular and so immediately anyone who's a real pro runs into about 1,000 issues.

We need to be able to upgrade all aspects of our machines...otherwise it's a consumer product, not a prosumer product...and nobody here is saying anything is wrong with consumer products...

I mean, and this is true...the iPhone 5...yes, the iPhone 5, was more powerful than the computers used to make 1993's Jurassic Park film. So technology has absolutely come a long way.

Can I edit a film on my iPhone 14 pro Max? Absolutely...do I want to? Of course not. But that doesn't mean people can't.

We all have to use what we have available to us...but just because that is all someone currently has available, doesn't mean people who can have more, shouldn't.

I'm happy you have access to a trashcan Mac Pro and I'm happy you are not letting the limitations stop you from working. In fact, that's inspiring and fantastic to hear...but it won't stop Zombie from hating it LOL.

 

[aytan]

I hear you, and I understand what you're saying...but no.

The ENTIRE POINT of the Mac PRO lineup is it isn't just for low to mid range. I'm happy that works for you but it does not work for me "among others here". I have dumped $50k+ into my 2019 Mac Pro and I don't care I will happily dump $100k into an Intel 2023 Mac Pro 8.1 if it doubles the speeds of my current Mac Pro.

Yes, I could buy a simple flat in some countries and with the new one I guess I'd buy two flats...don't care. I have the money and I shouldn't be limited by the fact that M1 Ultra is enough for you

It's a PRO machine, meaning it should absolutely crap on everything else available if I want it to and can afford to make it do so...it should be able to accommodate BOTH OF US...NOT JUST YOU.

The M1 Ultra Mac Studio was made to accommodate YOU, and that's totally fine. I'm happy that exists for you. I have one running my music studio now. But when it comes to working on movies and tv shows and high-end product and music videos as I do...I want my machine to be an absolute monster and I don't want it to ever say no to me and I want it to absolutely scream past anything else available in it's range. I don't buy Mac Pro's to hit limitations. I buy them to FREAKING FLY AND SCREAM AT THE WORLD WHILE THEY DO.

Mac Studios are Velociraptors. Mac Pros are meant to be T-REXs. They are not the same.

I respect that, and agreed with you. As I wrote down I wish I had a 2019 Mac Pro today .
I believe Apple think about your subjects and will give ''Pro'' machine for users who could spend more money on it. I simply wrote down what I experienced for a while and my wish about AS MP or M2/M3 Ultra .
Hope there will be a new MP variant for your needs.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I have no idea why are you against 2013 trashcans, there is still a lot of people using them for video editing or different graphic tasks.
You can easily buy a 2019 Mac Pro today, please go for it.
Maybe it is not enough for you back in 2013 and today it's only a trashcan for you.
Sure it is not perfect machine in 2013 but it works all these years.
BTW I have edited a TV Documentary with one of them 3 weeks ago, yes it is slow sometimes but it works all day long, and the other day, and the other day.....this trashcan is 9 years old...
I guess you could show some respect or you don't
There is a lot of people can not buy brand new machines every other year.

Dude, they did an apology tour. Let that sink in.

 

[chfilm]

Dude, they did an apology tour. Let that sink in.

This. Well in fact I was pretty happy with my 2013 for a a good 4 years, then the last two it became sort of a drag but was still OK. But with the 2019 Mac Pro they did everything right at the time, and since then they have done everything right with the new MacBooks too. So I refuse to believe all the fearmongering and rumors that we are due for a major disappointment... Maybe it‘ll take longer, that‘s ok with me too, the 2019 is still a beast. Just get it right please!

 

[aytan]

On this point we agree lol. But one thing you're gonna learn about @ZombiePhysicist fast, is he doesn't not like the trashcan, he ABSOLUTELY HATES THEM LOLOLOL.

I just noticed you're new here, so you'll learn everyone's personality quirks over time...but his reason for hating the trashcan make sense. I actually have one as well and use it as a flowerpot at my mom's house lol. It was a decent system, and it's still a usable system if it's all someone has access to. But it runs into the same problems most of us on this thread have with the idea of an AS Mac Pro: EXPANDABILITY.

Apple admitted they screwed up with it not because it wasn't a good computer, but because that's ALL IT WAS...a good computer. It wasn't modular and so immediately anyone who's a real pro runs into about 1,000 issues.

We need to be able to upgrade all aspects of our machines...otherwise it's a consumer product, not a prosumer product...and nobody here is saying anything is wrong with consumer products...

I mean, and this is true...the iPhone 5...yes, the iPhone 5, was more powerful than the computers used to make 1993's Jurassic Park film. So technology has absolutely come a long way.

Can I edit a film on my iPhone 14 pro Max? Absolutely...do I want to? Of course not. But that doesn't mean people can't.

We all have to use what we have available to us...but just because that is all someone currently has available, doesn't mean people who can have more, shouldn't.

I'm happy you have access to a trashcan Mac Pro and I'm happy you are not letting the limitations stop you from working. In fact, that's inspiring and fantastic to hear...but it won't stop Zombie from hating it LOL.

Thanks for your kind response.

I agreed with about EXPANDABILITY. I have lots of minus's about M1 machines and decide to buy one of them just for try it. Sure it's a major downside which can prevent users to buy AS machines. I totally understand that. I wish future AS should have this too but recent design is not suitable or they don't want to make it.

Ultra is not prosumer product I agreed that too. When I bought base Studio Max, I feel like ehhh its ok, fine for that value. After 2 months I sold it and buy an Ultra. After 6 months I fell like, I could see Ultra's horizon and I should upgrade it in the near future. This why I read down this topic. Actually I was really close to buy an entry level 2019 MacPro at 2020 and everything gone wrong all over the world.

On this period I have use IMac and IMac Pro with several eGpu's for 2 years, it was ok, not that good but this little option itself make my job faster. I wish AS could have this option too. Looks like Apple wants to cut out all this options for a reason.

Zombie is ok, I really like his posts all over the place.

My friend has got 3 of 2013 trashcan and all of them works for video editing still today.
Yes we have got lots of issues with them specially with AMD GPU's and network issues. But it's ok for basic editing.

And yes Ultra have limitations, for example I have run a simple simulation with high density voxels and it will ends up a shotdown and restart Well I can accept this for this value.

This is why I bought a simple PC besides Ultra, and now I can easily upgrade to 4080 or 4070ti. It is great option.

I started very little options 30 years ago, start with old movie techs and works with our bare hands, saw all that improvement year after year, so something like so little and could handle a lot of works like M1 Ultra all this level of tech looks to me like miracle.

I wish there will be a powerfull new MacPro and this time I will buy it just for try