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ZombiePhysicist

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May 22, 2014
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The 3D market is just not one that Apple realistically has any hope of courting. It's the province of high-end desktop PCs running Nvidia graphics cards - pretty much the antithesis of what Apple manufacturers.

Almost no-one is going to base their professional practice around a platform with sporadic and inconsistent workstation updates, with an OS that's less performant in 3D than Windows / Linux, from a vendor who hates Nvidia, refuses to support any graphics API other than Metal, and never discusses future roadmaps. For all these reasons, the Mac is a second-class citizen when it comes to 3D renderer support. Even if Apple changed their attitudes tomorrow (which they won't, as these strategies directly benefit higher-priority areas of their business), it would take years for developers and users to begin trusting Apple.

It's also hard to see how Apple would ever be price-competitive in this market. That may not be a concern for big VFX houses like ILM, but those types of companies mostly (and increasingly) use Linux anyway (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b-4GMTSEE9tyqeQdBfy_LZnxQIdp38Y/view).

Real-time rendering with game engines is becoming increasingly important for film / TV, but the Mac's being left behind there too (a feud with Epic over iOS App Store royalties likely doesn't help either). Few companies have traditionally used Macs for games development, because there's not much of a Mac games market. Another victim of Apple's refusal / inability to make affordable desktops with high-powered GPUs.

@maikerukun youve been upgraded to an “almost no-one” in your own thread about “what if”… If you make it to a “nobody”, next time you might be able to afford to sail down on your own yacht to Phuket.
 
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mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
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'Almost no-one' meant few in number, not implying that maikerukun is a no-one (which he clearly isn't). Stop trying to stir.

Although perhaps not welcome to hear, there's nothing controversial in the post - it's all stating the obvious. Which does pertain to the likelihood of Apple pursuing that path.
 

ZombiePhysicist

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May 22, 2014
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2,794
'Almost no-one' meant few in number, not implying that maikerukun is a no-one (which he clearly isn't). Stop trying to stir.

Although perhaps not welcome to hear, there's nothing controversial in the post - it's all stating the obvious. Which does pertain to the likelihood of Apple pursuing that path.

You’re free to make demands what/how you’d like me to post and I’m free to ignore your demands. Your interpretations of how I need to interpret your posts are your own. See how that works. Or not. More high altitude wooshes.
 
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maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
The 3D market is just not one that Apple realistically has any hope of courting. It's the province of high-end desktop PCs running Nvidia graphics cards - pretty much the antithesis of what Apple manufacturers.

Almost no-one is going to base their professional practice around a platform with sporadic and inconsistent workstation updates, with an OS that's less performant in 3D than Windows / Linux, from a vendor who hates Nvidia, refuses to support any graphics API other than Metal, and never discusses future roadmaps. For all these reasons, the Mac is a second-class citizen when it comes to 3D renderer support. Even if Apple changed their attitudes tomorrow (which they won't, as these strategies directly benefit higher-priority areas of their business), it would take years for developers and users to begin trusting Apple.

It's also hard to see how Apple would ever be price-competitive in this market. That may not be a concern for big VFX houses like ILM, but those types of companies mostly (and increasingly) use Linux anyway (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b-4GMTSEE9tyqeQdBfy_LZnxQIdp38Y/view).

Real-time rendering with game engines is becoming increasingly important for film / TV, but the Mac's being left behind there too (a feud with Epic over iOS App Store royalties likely doesn't help either). Few companies have traditionally used Macs for games development, because there's not much of a Mac games market. Another victim of Apple's refusal / inability to make affordable desktops with high-powered GPUs.
I actually agree. For VFX houses and 3D animation houses...this is absolutely correct. For post production houses and edit houses and color houses, they are all on Mac. Same for general production company facilities. But when it comes to 3D animation and VFX houses, it's mostly gonna be PC minus a handful of studios "myself, Lunar Animation, etc..." there's probably a couple dozen out there operating on Macs, but the overwhelming majority of VFX and 3D houses are gonna be PC. Even I will likely pull the trigger on this Puget I've had sitting in my cart for a good month now as we head into production on our upcoming feature film slate as 2 out of 3 of them simply have too many VFX needs that are not possibly currently on my Mac Pros. "To be clear, they are POSSIBLE on my Mac Pros, but they will take 10x longer to complete, and that's the real issue".

For personal stuff, for commercial stuff, smaller, short form narrative stuff, the Mac Pro is enough, but when you start turning over 100 shots that aren't mostly comp work, not having a PC around with really beefy GPU's becomes problematic.

Again, calling me to do the closing credits animation for a Marvel film...my Mac Pro can handle that...calling me to do the actually construction of the Brooklyn bridge and the city behind it for a choreographed superhero fight in which said bridge is fought on and ultimately destroyed in a photorealistic comp...gonna need some GPU's behind me.

So I won't argue with you on this...you are correct.
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,173
Stargate Command
"To be clear, they are POSSIBLE on my Mac Pros, but they will take 10x longer to complete, and that's the real issue".

For personal stuff, for commercial stuff, smaller, short form narrative stuff, the Mac Pro is enough, but when you start turning over 100 shots that aren't mostly comp work, not having a PC around with really beefy GPU's becomes problematic.

Again, calling me to do the closing credits animation for a Marvel film...my Mac Pro can handle that...calling me to do the actually construction of the Brooklyn bridge and the city behind it for a choreographed superhero fight in which said bridge is fought on and ultimately destroyed in a photorealistic comp...gonna need some GPU's behind me.

But is that for working on the project itself, or just when it comes to rendering it out...?
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
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@maikerukun youve been upgraded to an “almost no-one” in your own thread about “what if”… If you make it to a “nobody”, next time you might be able to afford to sail down on your own yacht to Phuket.
LMFAO! I don't think he meant it that way LOL!! And I agree with some of his points...but thanks for having my back on it :).

Speaking of Phuket, I forgot I said I would post some of the stuff I did out there...photos and videos and whatnot...here's a couple videos;

First one was just me being ridiculous and enjoying my private villa in the jungles of Phuket at the most ridiculous resort I've ever stayed at called "Tresara". I have to say, if you ever have the chance, this is the way to do Phuket.

Second and third videos are a few of the temples I visited in Taipei.

Fourth video was mostly a recap of my time in Phuket.

Last one was just some random interesting clips from my IG stories I posted.

I have footage enough for another several dozen videos but that's all the time I had to edit. It was an incredible experience in which I kept all the best parts to myself.

Technical details; Shot all the drone stuff on my DJI Air 2s. Underwater stuff shot on my Insta360 v3. Everything else shot on the iPhone 14 Pro Max and everything edited at my villa on the 3 screen setup MacBook Pro M2 Max.

Cheers and hope ya'll enjoy the clips :)

@ZombiePhysicist @prefuse07








 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
'Almost no-one' meant few in number, not implying that maikerukun is a no-one (which he clearly isn't). Stop trying to stir.

Although perhaps not welcome to hear, there's nothing controversial in the post - it's all stating the obvious. Which does pertain to the likelihood of Apple pursuing that path.
Lol, I figured you didn't mean it that way and I think he was just having a bit of fun, and as I stated previously, I agree with your points actually.
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
You’re free to make demands what/how you’d like me to post and I’m free to ignore your demands. Your interpretations of how I need to interpret your posts are your own. See how that works. Or not. More high altitude wooshes.
LMFAO! ya'll are hilarious. Btw, haven't seen Prefuse around...did I miss something? Please don't say he got banned...
 
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maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
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But is that for working on the project itself, or just when it comes to rendering it out...?
I'm actually referring to both. Don't get me wrong, if necessary push comes to shove, I could do everything on a Mac Pro needed and just send the final export to a render farm, but COMPLETELY OFF GRID it's going to take 10x the time it would to do on a PC simply from GPU compatibility, optimization, and power alone. There's no denying Apple cripples itself with the upholding of the walled garden when it comes to GPU power in it's Mac Pro, but it can get the same job done if it's the only option.

The workflow is there, but the time required is still miles away from the speed of a PC with the same setup but rocking 4090's...Octane and Redshift are both simply made for GPU power hungry machines.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
LMFAO! I don't think he meant it that way LOL!! And I agree with some of his points...but thanks for having my back on it :).

Speaking of Phuket, I forgot I said I would post some of the stuff I did out there...photos and videos and whatnot...here's a couple videos;

First one was just me being ridiculous and enjoying my private villa in the jungles of Phuket at the most ridiculous resort I've ever stayed at called "Tresara". I have to say, if you ever have the chance, this is the way to do Phuket.

Second and third videos are a few of the temples I visited in Taipei.

Fourth video was mostly a recap of my time in Phuket.

Last one was just some random interesting clips from my IG stories I posted.

I have footage enough for another several dozen videos but that's all the time I had to edit. It was an incredible experience in which I kept all the best parts to myself.

Technical details; Shot all the drone stuff on my DJI Air 2s. Underwater stuff shot on my Insta360 v3. Everything else shot on the iPhone 14 Pro Max and everything edited at my villa on the 3 screen setup MacBook Pro M2 Max.

Cheers and hope ya'll enjoy the clips :)

@ZombiePhysicist @prefuse07

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Looks like a super fun trip. The cliffs into that super pretty water looked magical. I would have been tempted to explore and find treasures! Hope you had a blast. Looks like you did!
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
Looks like a super fun trip. The cliffs into that super pretty water looked magical. I would have been tempted to explore and find treasures! Hope you had a blast. Looks like you did!
Loved it, but glad to be back and focused on new projects. That island is the island from that Leonardo DiCaprio movie, The Beach, that crazy movie from back in the day LOL. Definitely explored everything and found all sorts of crazy stuff. Missed all of y'all though and our crazy convos lolol. Which will either be heavily rewarded or relentlessly ignored in about 3 weeks from now LOL. Hopefully Apple has some good news for all of us!
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
Also, the iPhone 14 Pro Max is actually ridiculously good for filmmaking on the go. These videos have been compressed by like 90% LOL but what they look like in reality is just phenomenal. I'm actually very curious what updates will come with the iPhone 15 Pro Max and how they will integrate its capabilities into what's going on with the M chips on the MacBooks and iPads. It's no secret that Apple just released both Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro on the iPad...you can even shoot 4k raw footage directly into your timeline using the iPad which is nuts. I understand their push in this direction and how they are leading the way even on these fronts...but they still need to take care of home and focus energy and resources on delivering the ultimate Mac Pro.
 

vinegarshots

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2018
982
1,349
Again, calling me to do the closing credits animation for a Marvel film...my Mac Pro can handle that...calling me to do the actually construction of the Brooklyn bridge and the city behind it for a choreographed superhero fight in which said bridge is fought on and ultimately destroyed in a photorealistic comp...gonna need some GPU's behind me.
:p Oh c’mon man… it’s good to have aspirations, but let’s not get carried away here. Be proud of what you do, but don’t try so hard to try to make yourself appear to be more than you are.
 
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maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
Ultimate ASi Mac Pro:
  • 3nm / M3-family / A17-based cores
  • Up to 64-core CPU
  • Up to 4090-class GPU
  • Up to dual 4090-class add-in GPUs
  • Hardware Ray-Tracing
  • Up to 1TB LPDDR5X RAM
  • Up to 32TB SSD
  • Six PCIe slots
  • Whole buncha ports
;^p
I would buy this before I was even able to blink LOL
 
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maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
:p Oh c’mon man… it’s good to have aspirations, but let’s not get carried away here. Be proud of what you do, but don’t try so hard to try to make yourself appear to be more than you are.
That's not an aspiration, that's an example of what the machine can handle. This isn't the *I*k swinging contest you keep wanting it to be, kiddo. Someone asked a question, I gave an example to express what the machine can handle or not. You came in wanting to challenge me for some reason?

Don't worry kid, people notice you here, you're not being ignored, but you don't have to try so hard to get my attention lol.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
9
Even I will likely pull the trigger on this Puget I've had sitting in my cart for a good month now as we head into production on our upcoming feature film slate as 2 out of 3 of them simply have too many VFX needs that are not possibly currently on my Mac Pros. "To be clear, they are POSSIBLE on my Mac Pros, but they will take 10x longer to complete, and that's the real issue".

For personal stuff, for commercial stuff, smaller, short form narrative stuff, the Mac Pro is enough, but when you start turning over 100 shots that aren't mostly comp work, not having a PC around with really beefy GPU's becomes problematic.
I know this isn't a response to me - but I kind of feel like what I said is being misconstrued.

It's not uncommon for vendors to have to hide Windows gear when Apple comes to visit. If Apple can't even handle Windows machines being in eye line - it's laughable that they're just going to accept that content creation for an Apple Headset on Windows. It's even likely that some content creation pipelines will be locked to special tools that only run on the Mac by Apple to force Mac hardware sales. I really doubt anyone is going to be able to plug an Apple headset into a Windows machine in the near future and do Unreal development on it. They'll keep that locked down while they can.

Does that mean Apple's hardware is good right now or in the future? No. But that's different than saying Apple isn't going to pull out of the market. They'll stay in because they don't tolerate key workflows for their products being Windows only. The entire reason they put out the consumption devices and own the distribution channels is they want to own the whole pipeline.
 

mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
it's laughable that they're just going to accept that content creation for an Apple Headset on Windows. It's even likely that some content creation pipelines will be locked to special tools that only run on the Mac by Apple to force Mac hardware sales.
But can they risk stymying the sales of the Apple Headset by insisting on Mac development tools? It's one thing when it's for a wildly popular product like the iPhone - developers will just suck it up - but different when Apple are trying to establish an expensive / niche new product.

Of course, if the AH has some incredibly compelling new tech that revolutionises VR/AR, then it's a different story.
 
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