Nanofrog,
I suppose I should have googled those video cards to determine their price from 3rd party vendors. Just taking a quick look the ati radeon is ~$200 (in the Mac Pro), while the ati firemv is ~$100 (in the T3500). So, that gap is filled a little easier than I had originally thought.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying push a Mac on anyone. For me, an extra few hundred bucks to have Unix so nicely tied into a fully functional operating system is certainly worth a little extra cost, particularly when you think about how much that money actually translates to per hour usage over the life of the computer and all the lovely headaches going back and forth between Windows and Linux as needed.
I didn't take your post as pushing Macs on anyone.
Just that the cost analysis was off, and could be important to those that have limited budgets (MP is too hard to justify, if even possible, depending on the available budget), aren't married to OS X (just need applications to do a job, and will pick what they think best suits their needs regardless of OS they're run under), ... sorts of situations.
For example, those that don't have any issues with switching back to Windows for their applications (some vendors will allow users to switch platforms on products that are cross-platform, such as Adobe's products from according to other posts) might go for a PC based on lower cost and increased hardware options.
In the case of integration, that's a highly valid reason to chose a particular platform, and goes in multiple directions (i.e. PC vendors tend to have better integration for both Windows and Linux <seeing more systems designed around Linux than have in the past, and given the software tends to be free, that helps low budget situations rather well>).
As it happens, the integration for enterprise systems has a leg up in the PC side IMO, due to things like RAID and networking solutions all from the same vendor = fully integrated hardware and software. Something that Apple hasn't done well with (i.e. no 10G Ethernet or Infiniband solutions offered by Apple at all).
MacinDoc brings up another good point. I wonder how this pricing comparison between the SP Mac Pro and the T3500 has evolved over the life of the latest Westmeres. It would be interesting to see a chart of the time evolution of the price gaps between the various mac models and their dell counter parts.
I'm not aware of a single source that spells it all out, but that information is scattered about in MR IIRC.
But generally speaking, 2006 - 2008, MP's compared very well vs. their PC counterparts in terms of base model MSRP. Unfortunately, this changed with the 2009 systems (when the SP MP price gap became what it is now).
Make it a bottle of
Balevnie, and you've got yourself a deal.
Most people who need a MacPro don't need OSX. Not anymore, now that Final Cut has tanked. That was the only thing keeping me on that platform. A buddy of mine just built a PC that will smoke the entry and middle level MacPro's. He's running Windows 7 and Adobe suite and couldn't be happier. I can't remember the exact specs, but it was impressive and it only cost him $1600. It's also going to be much easier and cheaper to upgrade than Apple hardware.
Apple stuff is great for consumers, but pro's don't need them anymore now that Adobe has optimized for Windows, and the new Windows 7 is solid. But if all you need a computer for is checking Facebook, playing a few simple games, and maybe checking the web and writing letters, then yeah... maybe an iMac or one of the laptops/iPads. If Apple would have keep the professional line of applications updated, then it would be a different story. But, since they have devoted most of their resources towards iToys, the professional line has grown outdated, un-needed, and expensive by comparison.
Depends on what the user needs (may be tied to OS X software in another field).
Most workstations and servers are PC's however, running various OS's (usually Windows, but it could be a Linux distro or other form of UNIX, such as Open Solaris).
Hopefully Tim Cook will bring the pro market back.
Unfortunately, I don't think this will be the case. Workstations are too small a market for Apple it seems (not enough growth = can get a better ROI investing money in other areas/products, such as consumer devices).
single-CPU Mac Pros are never good deals. the base model is a bad deal, and while the highest end might be comparable, it's not until the dual-CPU models that you can actually get more for your money...as long as you don't need in-room support (nonexistent) or professional graphics cards (few options, drivers all suck).
In terms of hardware, PC equivalents do offer a better deal vs. the SP MP's. But there can be other factors, such as training and software investments that would be too expensive to switch over to another OS.
It all comes down to a user's specific requirements.
