Mac Pro Rising

[lowendlinux]

If three years ago or in my case two years ago I went to my boss, IT, RM and everyone in between and convinced them that I needed to switch to a PC and re buy SW and some HW I'm not going to wreck my credibility and budget by going back and asking them to switch back. I think if people really are leaving once they're gone they're gone if they're not independent.

 

[zoomp]

I've had Mac Pros (or equivalent upgradable desktop) for 24 years. The only one I had upgraded was my 2010 one, I would rather buy a new one every 2 years. So, the reasoning behind nMP would be Ok, if they had updated it every year.

The 3 years before they launched the nMP was justified by all the R&D into the new design, so they better justify our current 3 years cycle with something, otherwise they are really letting it go.

Having said that, I read this interview yesterday with Randy Ubillos, the guy that solely invented Premiere Pro, Final cut, and final cut X, and it is very telling how even the most experienced specialist in his field can do such a fu** up as FCPX was. The launch and everything that came after wouldn't justify the management failure to realize the development of their target audience, or they just chose to not have them anymore.

I know how hard our industry was beaten by FCPX. Believe me. I am a film editor with a several features edited.

 

[AidenShaw]

I've had Mac Pros (or equivalent upgradable desktop) for 24 years. The only one I had upgraded was my 2010 one, I would rather buy a new one every 2 years. So, the reasoning behind nMP would be Ok, if they had updated it every year.

Did you buy off-the-shelf each time, or did you build-to-order?

I have no doubt that the majority of towers are never upgraded after purchase - but I also believe that a good number are upgraded *before* purchase via BTO options.

The locked down design of the MP6,1 gives very BTO few options.

 

[H2SO4]

We wouldn't have had the same great hardware we have today if they just followed the rest.

You simply can’t know that at all.
[doublepost=1466603510][/doublepost]

We might as well hope this is legit because there isn't anything else to hold onto. Maybe, just maybe, Tim, Jony and Phil got their heads out of places where the sun don't shine and came to see the light. Maybe losing MacPro sales to Windows computers was the kick in the pants that they needed. They better be pretty damn sure of what they're doing this time or they'll continue to lose sales and if that happens, who knows if they will be able to recover this portion of the market again.

Anybody know what the nMP sales numbers actually are?
[doublepost=1466603667][/doublepost]

"The customer is always right - except for our customers." - Tim Cook

Don’t bother, sounds like he/she has already been assimilated.
[doublepost=1466604384][/doublepost]

I wonder, if these all are true, how are they going to patch the statement about the design for the next 10 years

Easy, (please read in Schiller tones);

You know, when we released the Mac Pro back in 2013, we did so because we knew, that professionals were falling over themselves………...to have a powerful workstation that they could expand along with their work. You know. We just couldn’t make these things fast enough and we wondered how we could give developers, more and just as we know with phones that one size doesn’t fit all, we’ve carried that thinking through to our flagship.

So without further ado, I give you, the Mac. Pro. Plus. You still get all of the incrrrrrrredible expansion possibilites of the ’13 model but with additional internal expansion to allow you to choose a BTO option that gets you an AMD HellFirepro 12GB per GPU and we tjhink you’re just gonna love it.
Yaddda, yadda, yadda……..

 

[pat500000]

I've had Mac Pros (or equivalent upgradable desktop) for 24 years. The only one I had upgraded was my 2010 one, I would rather buy a new one every 2 years. So, the reasoning behind nMP would be Ok, if they had updated it every year.

The 3 years before they launched the nMP was justified by all the R&D into the new design, so they better justify our current 3 years cycle with something, otherwise they are really letting it go.

Having said that, I read this interview yesterday with Randy Ubillos, the guy that solely invented Premiere Pro, Final cut, and final cut X, and it is very telling how even the most experienced specialist in his field can do such a fu** up as FCPX was. The launch and everything that came after wouldn't justify the management failure to realize the development of their target audience, or they just chose to not have them anymore.

I know how hard our industry was beaten by FCPX. Believe me. I am a film editor with a several features edited.

I hear you. I can hear you very clear.

 

[koyoot]

AMD HellFirepro 12GB per GPU.

I have to say, that made my laugh my ass off .

AMD HellFirePro.

Amazing! YMMD

 

[H2SO4]

I have to say, that made my laugh my ass off .

AMD HellFirePro.

Amazing! YMMD

Thanks. I’m editing it to add a little more Schiller too.

 

[filmak]

incrrrrrrredible

in deed, we 're still astonished.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Now this is just my opinion as a frustrated Mac user.

I went over to HP to look around and I couldn't believe what I saw in comparison to what Apple has done with the Mac. If you want to see what could have been done with the iMac look here:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z1-g2.html

There is also a new G3 where they changed the design a bit to be smaller. Now, if you want to see what Apple could have done with the MacPro, look here:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z840.html

Instead, Apple got on it's design and innovation kick. HP is innovating realistic designs and they even have a page for Mac To PC for people dealing with the potential harsh reality.

 

[sunapple]

You simply can’t know that at all.

Would they have made a multi touch glass iPhone in 2007 or a cheap plastic phone with keyboard and stylus?

Would Apple have moved into tablets in 2010?

Apple would probably be making cheap Windows computers and Android phones if they did whatever the rest was doing. It's the easy way, just like going back to design that worked in the past instead of coming up with something new and trying to change the industry.

Yes, this a very extreme example, some people might get upset. Just saying that Apple should keep taking risks.

 

[beaker7]

Would they have made a multi touch glass iPhone in 2007 or a cheap plastic phone with keyboard and stylus?

Would Apple have moved into tablets in 2010?

Apple would probably be making cheap Windows computers and Android phones if they did whatever the rest was doing. It's the easy way, just like going back to design that worked in the past instead of coming up with something new and trying to change the industry.

Yes, this a very extreme example, some people might get upset. Just saying that Apple should keep taking risks.

Risks and change are great when they are improvements, like the iPhone was.

Not so much when the new approach is demonstrably worse in many ways that matter for its intended use case.

 

[koyoot]

Risks and change are great when they are improvements, like the iPhone was.

Not so much when the new approach is demonstrably worse in many ways that matter for its intended use case.

In what way it is better approach from Apple perspective for their ecosystem and development platform?

Is it worse or better for them?

 

[goodcow]

Would they have made a multi touch glass iPhone in 2007 or a cheap plastic phone with keyboard and stylus?

Would Apple have moved into tablets in 2010?

Apple would probably be making cheap Windows computers and Android phones if they did whatever the rest was doing. It's the easy way, just like going back to design that worked in the past instead of coming up with something new and trying to change the industry.

Yes, this a very extreme example, some people might get upset. Just saying that Apple should keep taking risks.

You still need to produce something the public wants. Everyone wanted a better smart phone. Or just a better phone in general. They were clunky, the mobile internet was bad, they were generally unpleasant to use.

The market for the Mac Pro didn't want an un-expandable octopus with 900 days and counting without an update. How was the trash can design supposed to help the pro market?

 

[Sweetfeld28]

I would love to be able to buy a fully capable MP tower, however until the can get back to basics featuring a tower that is up-gradable and has a lot of room for storage; then I will continue to buy the few supported cMP's that I can.

If the nMP is not selling, then lower the prices on them; cut your losses... Apple.

 

[koyoot]

If the design features coherent fabric to create single GPU unit from two GPUs, for compute, and graphics purposes - yep, that will be updated design, much better than before.

If the design will feature water cooling to add to this - yep, that will be updated design, much better than before.

If it will remain efficient - that will still be good design.

Aiden is right on the front that people who switched from Apple platform will not come back, even if Apple will update the computer.

But Apple may not even bother about that. Most important is to attract highest possible amount of new people to the platform. Only that way they can grow.

I am wondering. I am a person who earns money from my work on my computer. For my purposes, Mac Pro in current form factor is perfect. It however lacks power that I would expect and want from computer for this amount of money. But that is my personal opinion.

 

[filmak]

How was the trash can design supposed to help the pro market?

Perhaps the help was that it made a lot of people realise that the mac (real) workstation era is gone.
The first sign was that the rare cMP updates slowly evolved to even rarer and negligible, the next one was this 2013 tube.
It was/is a Cube like experiment?
Is there any possibility to change their mind and finally return or reinvent the classic design?
Have they lost their minds completely?
Will they discontinue the Mac Pro line?
These are questions that need an answer or a serious decision from Apple. I don't know if it is really too late for the MP users, but the PC workstations seem to be, every next day, more and more tempting...

 

[AidenShaw]

Perhaps the help was that it made a lot of people realise that the mac (real) workstation era is gone.
The first sign was that the rare cMP updates slowly evolved to even rarer and negligible, the next one was this 2013 tube.
It was/is a Cube like experiment?
Is there any possibility to change their mind and finally return or reinvent the classic design?
Have they lost their minds completely?
Will they discontinue the Mac Pro line?
These are questions that need an answer or a serious decision from Apple. I don't know if it is really too late for the MP users, but the PC workstations seem to be, every next day, more and more tempting...

There is a very clear and obvious solution for Apple to meet the needs of their customers who aren't happy with the current lineup.

Form a partnership with one (or a couple) of the first or second tier workstation manufacturers (HP, Dell, Falcon, SuperMicro, ...) and support MacOS on standard UEFI x64 workstations with a qualified subset of the normal hardware options. This could be through rebadging (slap the on a Z-series or Precision), or through a "MacOS Certified" program that limits BTO options to those supported by Apple. Hell, even support MacOS Server (does that exist) on a couple of ProLiants!

And don't mention the "clone wars". Completely different scenario. Apple can make sure that "MacOS Certified" systems are more expensive than any hardware offering from Apple - so Apple wouldn't lose sales, they'd simply reduce the number of people leaving the Apple platform because Apple's "high end" has become boringly "mid-range".

 

[Synchro3]

Perhaps the help was that it made a lot of people realise that the mac (real) workstation era is gone.
The first sign was that the rare cMP updates slowly evolved to even rarer and negligible, the next one was this 2013 tube.
It was/is a Cube like experiment?
Is there any possibility to change their mind and finally return or reinvent the classic design?
Have they lost their minds completely?
Will they discontinue the Mac Pro line?
These are questions that need an answer or a serious decision from Apple. I don't know if it is really too late for the MP users, but the PC workstations seem to be, every next day, more and more tempting...

I think they tried 'Creative destruction': http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/creative-destruction-yada-yada/?_r=0 and http://ssi.sagepub.com/content/52/4/539.abstract

They just forgot about their ignorance:

You still need to produce something the public wants. Everyone wanted a better smart phone. Or just a better phone in general. They were clunky, the mobile internet was bad, they were generally unpleasant to use.

The market for the Mac Pro didn't want an un-expandable octopus with 900 days and counting without an update. How was the trash can design supposed to help the pro market?

 

[pat500000]

What was it that Steve jobs saw in Tim Cook?

 

[rawweb]

There is a very clear and obvious solution for Apple to meet the needs of their customers who aren't happy with the current lineup.

Form a partnership with one (or a couple) of the first or second tier workstation manufacturers (HP, Dell, Falcon, SuperMicro, ...) and support MacOS on standard UEFI x64 workstations with a qualified subset of the normal hardware options. This could be through rebadging (slap the on a Z-series or Precision), or through a "MacOS Certified" program that limits BTO options to those supported by Apple. Hell, even support MacOS Server (does that exist) on a couple of ProLiants!

And don't mention the "clone wars". Completely different scenario. Apple can make sure that "MacOS Certified" systems are more expensive than any hardware offering from Apple - so Apple wouldn't lose sales, they'd simply reduce the number of people leaving the Apple platform because Apple's "high end" has become boringly "mid-range".

I really don't see how forming a "partnership" as you put it, with the competition no less, would be beneficial to Apple, or for that matter, it's customers. Consumer loyalty to me is paramount. I for one wouldn't want anything to do with any of the companies you mentioned. Sure, Apple is currently negligent on a pro option. At the end of the day though, Apple is in the business of producing computers (Yep, iDevices are technically computers). No reason at all to involve these other companies. If they want to produce a workstation to destroy all competition, they would/will. I doubt the validity in anything the OP posted, but, this world...who knows...I never thought the Smashing Pumpkins would make music again either, but they did...sort of.

 

[filmak]

There is a very clear and obvious solution for Apple to meet the needs of their customers who aren't happy with the current lineup.

Form a partnership with one (or a couple) of the first or second tier workstation manufacturers (HP, Dell, Falcon, SuperMicro, ...) and support MacOS on standard UEFI x64 workstations with a qualified subset of the normal hardware options. This could be through rebadging (slap the on a Z-series or Precision), or through a "MacOS Certified" program that limits BTO options to those supported by Apple. Hell, even support MacOS Server (does that exist) on a couple of ProLiants!

And don't mention the "clone wars". Completely different scenario. Apple can make sure that "MacOS Certified" systems are more expensive than any hardware offering from Apple - so Apple wouldn't lose sales, they'd simply reduce the number of people leaving the Apple platform because Apple's "high end" has become boringly "mid-range".

This is indeed a smart move, a solution, but do they have the willing / guts / or enough wisdom to do this?
Is it possible for them to look outside their sealed environment, and escape from their secrecy?
Every serious company tries to be the first to offer the latest achievements with their new systems, if they have stock from the previous versions they also try to sell it for less money, just to go, but not in Apple's case.

Here we 're still trying to make 4k sst monitors to work with their flagship product (not the iPhone, the expensive MP) but the GPUs are left abandoned without a single efi update, so no dp1.2 signal support on boot etc.

Even around the clone wars there was a plethora of desktop Macs, and later, with the PowerMacs, we had enough options and upgradeability, and this lasted till 2010 with MPs.

Now? if they offered a solution in partnership with another manufacturer, we would have again the lost flexibility and I'm sure that they would sell more units.
We all have old systems to replace but right now, we still don't have any options available and in contact with reality.

But I forgot, they have already deleted the word "Computer" from their name...
[doublepost=1466629125][/doublepost]

What was it that Steve jobs saw in Tim Cook?

He was a great cook... (in economics)
[doublepost=1466629636][/doublepost]

Consumer loyalty to me is paramount.

You 're right, in theory, and I agree that if they want they can built a great system, again.

On the other hand they have no problem using HP servers in their data centers, and not their own systems... at the end of the day it's just business...

Personally I think that it's more possible to stop (EOL) the MP line than partnership with anyone else.

 

[msh]

What was it that Steve jobs saw in Tim Cook?

Steve only had one requirement. That the person not outshine him. Thus we got Scully and now Cook.

 

[Nunyabinez]

I'm hitting my upgrade cycle in October, and to be honest, I can't find anything that Apple is making that I want to buy. My riMac is actually powerful enough for everything that I want to do. So, no sense in replacing it.

The nMP is really too expensive for what it is, I'm still nursing a cMP 2,1 that I would like to replace with something, but can't find it. I have always been an Apple defender, but I have to admit, if I have money to spend and can't find something I want, there has to be thousands and thousands that are in the same boat.

I wonder how much the shrinking of the Mac line in relation to Apple's other products is now mostly a reflection of Apple not showing it any love rather than it being a shrinking market.

I hope this rumor is true. I would likely buy it. I'm hoping that this fall has an explosion of updated products that blows my mind. I'm starting to doubt it though.

 

[pat500000]

I'm hitting my upgrade cycle in October, and to be honest, I can't find anything that Apple is making that I want to buy. My riMac is actually powerful enough for everything that I want to do. So, no sense in replacing it.

The nMP is really too expensive for what it is, I'm still nursing a cMP 2,1 that I would like to replace with something, but can't find it. I have always been an Apple defender, but I have to admit, if I have money to spend and can't find something I want, there has to be thousands and thousands that are in the same boat.

I wonder how much the shrinking of the Mac line in relation to Apple's other products is now mostly a reflection of Apple not showing it any love rather than it being a shrinking market.

I hope this rumor is true. I would likely buy it. I'm hoping that this fall has an explosion of updated products that blows my mind. I'm starting to doubt it though.

The ones who gonna get their mind blown out by the end of the year are the teenie Boppers with iPhones and those who make codes for 5k emoji with talking animation and says "welcome." If you like Apple Watch you could be in for treat or if you are entertained by emoji faces... You gonna faint as if met Tim Cook for the first time. As for Mac, just be happy what you have.

 

[kennyisalive]

This concept? Would have loved a Mac Pro like this.

That big apple logo in the front looks tacky as hell