Mac Pro Rising

[AidenShaw]

I really don't see how forming a "partnership" as you put it, with the competition no less, would be beneficial to Apple, or for that matter, it's customers. Consumer loyalty to me is paramount.

Which is better on the customer loyalty front?

• Moving to Windows
• Buying a co-branded MacOS system

If "customer loyalty is paramount", does that mean "buy whatever crap has a half-eaten apple on it"? Or does it mean buying into the Apple eco-system - even if the high end systems are re-badged?

And seriously, are any of the electronic parts in the MP6,1 actually made by Apple? It seems to be GPUs from AMD, CPUs from Intel, PEX switches from PLX, RAM from x, SSDs from y, .....

Is it really that big of a change to go from outside parts glued together by Apple and sold by Apple, to outside parts glued together by HP and sold by Apple?

 

[JimGoshorn]

Form a partnership with one (or a couple) of the first or second tier workstation manufacturers (HP, Dell, Falcon, SuperMicro, ...) and support MacOS on standard UEFI x64 workstations with a qualified subset of the normal hardware options. This could be through rebadging (slap the on a Z-series or Precision), or through a "MacOS Certified" program that limits BTO options to those supported by Apple. Hell, even support MacOS Server (does that exist) on a couple of ProLiants!

And don't mention the "clone wars". Completely different scenario. Apple can make sure that "MacOS Certified" systems are more expensive than any hardware offering from Apple - so Apple wouldn't lose sales, they'd simply reduce the number of people leaving the Apple platform because Apple's "high end" has become boringly "mid-range".

I like that idea; it has interesting possibilities. A few questions come to mind:

1. Is Apple going to install it's system on the computer after being built or is HP going to have a license to during the build? In other words, is Apple going to have to open the curtain so to speak?

2. Who would handle the warranty?

3. Are people going to be prepared to pay an additional Apple tax for the OS? The hardware will be exactly the same.

4. Would Apple insist on limiting the BTO options to differentiate the computers and simplify the support?

Don't know if Apple would be willing given their history of wanting to control the whole process in which case it would be akin to cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

[ActionableMango]

This concept? Would have loved a Mac Pro like this.

What's that blue thing inside supposed to be?

 

[BB8]

AidenShaw drinks his own kool-aid on this subject it's not even funny. It doesn't really matter whether or not you think it would be a good solution for consumers. When has Apple ever been about meeting the needs of every customer? From their perspective, there is more to be gained from exiting the Pro market entirely than tainting their brand with another hardware manufacturer.

 

[AidenShaw]

I like that idea; it has interesting possibilities. A few questions come to mind:

1. Is Apple going to install it's system on the computer after being built or is HP going to have a license to during the build? In other words, is Apple going to have to open the curtain so to speak?.

If it's rebranded (Apple logo on the case), then Apple would install the OS. If "certified", then it could be either pre-loaded with the Apple image, or bare metal and you do a network install. (Or something in between, where the Apple network installer is preloaded, and on power-up it downloads the full system.)

2. Who would handle the warranty?.

Up for grabs. If "certified", then it would be just like Windows today - the hardware vendor does the hardware warranty, Microsoft does the software. If rebranded, then I'd expect that Apple would be technically responsible, but could "outsource" the hardware warranty to the hardware vendor.

3. Are people going to be prepared to pay an additional Apple tax for the OS? The hardware will be exactly the same.

In previous discussions of this topic, many people seemed willing to spend a few hundred dollars extra for a legal Apple license on a state-of-the-art expandable, upgradeable workstation.

4. Would Apple insist on limiting the BTO options to differentiate the computers and simplify the support?.

I don't know about differentiation (if HP supports ten different GbE NICs on a Z-series, and Apple only supports one of them - how does that "differentiate" Apple?). For support simplification, it certainly would make sense to limit the options. Of course, in the Windows world the norm is to get "web drivers" from the hardware vendors - although usually base drivers ship with the OS or are pre-installed.

Don't know if Apple would be willing given their history of wanting to control the whole process in which case it would be akin to cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Apple is now run by bean counters, and if the beans line up they'd do whatever is needed. Jobs is gone.

 

[No One]

My Magic Eighth Ball predicts a single CPU machine based partially on the current motherboard with the GPU moved to PCI connectors from the current proprietary type.

Your eight ball exhibits precognitive tendencies. New design has only single socket. Cannot know which E5 v4 processors installed but compare prices of Broadwell-EP to Ivy Bridge-EP: E5-2697 v4 2.3 GHz 18 core is near price of E5-2697 v2 2.7 GHz 12 core in Tubular Pro. Also compare TDP and see Broadwell-EP is higher. Tube already has cooling problems so yet another reason Apple forced to eat the crow.

Cannot identify PSU wattage. Two double wide PCIe slots, but is PSU sufficient for best silicon of AMD/Nvidia? Several logic board connectors present, two appear to be mini-6-pin, so traces maybe limit power to midrange GPU choices.

Impossible to rack mount as the shape is not normal. Heh, not normal at all.

One more thing...

Remember I described new Mac Pro iteration as the Tick in a Tick Tock cycle. Skylake-EP, aka Purely, will be greatest advance since Nehalem. TDP reportedly even higher than Broadwell-EP, especially with higher core counts. Sell lots of "Tick" Mac Pros, then entice buyers to upgrade only a year later with Skylake-EP "Tock" revision. Tick Tock.

 

[AidenShaw]

AidenShaw drinks his own kool-aid on this subject it's not even funny. It doesn't really matter whether or not you think it would be a good solution for consumers. When has Apple ever been about meeting the needs of every customer? From their perspective, there is more to be gained from exiting the Pro market entirely than tainting their brand with another hardware manufacturer.

I feel sorry for y'all if Apple thinks this way.

And "tainting their brand"? Really? Siri runs in the Microsoft Cloud, and Apple's data centers are full of ProLiants and other servers.

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TDP reportedly even higher than Broadwell-EP, especially with higher core counts.

If it uses more power, how will that fit into the power/thermal constraints of the Tube?

 

[Bubba Satori]

What was it that Steve jobs saw in Tim Cook?

The transition from prophet to profit.
From insanely great and fun to insanely rich and boring.
He saw the antithesis of himself.
He saw someone who could take what he created
and put a trillion in the bank to tide the company over
during his absence until another visionary could replace the logistics guru.
My dollah bill is on Elon Musk.

 

[AidenShaw]

What's that blue thing inside supposed to be?

The cooling system for the nuclear fires of the PowerPC G5 ? (It's an old graphic...)

 

[JimGoshorn]

Cannot identify PSU wattage. Two double wide PCIe slots, but is PSU sufficient for best silicon of AMD/Nvidia? Several logic board connectors present, two appear to be mini-6-pin, so traces maybe limit power to midrange GPU choices.

Well if two PCIe slots is supposed to cover everything, then there still could be issues with higher end users. If it was GPUs plus two additional slots, that might be sufficient.

Remember I described new Mac Pro iteration as the Tick in a Tick Tock cycle. Skylake-EP, aka Purely, will be greatest advance since Nehalem. TDP reportedly even higher than Broadwell-EP, especially with higher core counts. Sell lots of "Tick" Mac Pros, then entice buyers to upgrade only a year later with Skylake-EP "Tock" revision. Tick Tock.

I don't know as that would fly since the MacPro is pretty expensive and to expect people to do it again in 1 year is not realistic for the average MacPro user.

 

[BB8]

I feel sorry for y'all if Apple thinks this way.

And "tainting their brand"? Really? Siri runs in the Microsoft Cloud, and Apple's data centers are full of ProLiants and other servers.

That is all back end stuff.

 

[mtasquared]

Is it really that big of a change to go from outside parts glued together by Apple and sold by Apple, to outside parts glued together by HP and sold by Apple?

Yes, there is a big difference. The hardware is also not identical. The back plane of the cMP and nMP are custom by Apple.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yes, there is a big difference. The hardware is also not identical. The back plane of the cMP and nMP are custom by Apple.

Really? They're simply Apple printed circuit boards with off-the-shelf chips in both cases.

Putting the MP6,1 PCH on a doughnut-shaped PCB doesn't make it magical - it's the same PCH and circuitry that HP and Dell and the others use.

 

[JimGoshorn]

That is all back end stuff.

It is a bit humorous though. Apple running it's Mac services on Windows computers. It would be like a camera company competing with another company but using the other companies cameras for it's advertising.

 

[tralfaz]

I think that it's unlikely that many folks will leave Windows to go back to Apple. Once you've bought into a different eco-system, a minor Apple OSX update isn't going to bring you back.

Unless Apple introduces a new, expandable Mac Pro with PCIe slots and NVMe drives and internal storage, and announces an organizational update that creates a "Mac Pro Czar" tasked with undoing the damage from the last six years of utter neglect.

Tim's "laser focus" is on rose gold iToys. Plain and simple. (And introducing a laptop with only one port signals that the focus is on turning Macs into iToys.

I think your point about users that abandon macOS to for windows, not coming back any time soon is probably correct. And this might be a concern to Apple, if Apple still only made computers. But since since computers are now number 4 in the money pie chart, it's simply not an urgent concern.

In fact I suspect, that if all MP 6,1 owners gathered together in the 1 Infinite Loop parking lot, and started launching there 6,1s at Apple headquarters with a trebuchet, the response would be something like this:

CEO Tim: What's all that racket?
Apple lacky: Sir its angry MP 6,1 owners firing MPs at are headquarters.
CEO: Oh, that's no big deal. They'll be out of ammo soon.

The MP6,1 served its purpose of mitigating the PR debacle of exploiting Chinese slave labor. Now that that is no longer in the news, Apple just doesn't give a f**k. Just like Janice in accounting.

 

[AidenShaw]

It is a bit humorous though. Apple running it's Mac services on Windows computers. It would be like a camera company competing with another company but using the other companies cameras for it's advertising.

Grown-up companies use the best tools for the job. Apple doesn't make any high-end workstations or any servers, so they'll have to use what's available.

Years ago some childish people on MacRumours made a big deal because some Microsoft ad photo had meta-data that showed that it was created on an Apple using Photoshop. It didn't mean anything then other than an ad agency that Microsoft hired used Apples, and Siri running on Azure now means nothing more than Apple being open about choosing the right tool for the job.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Grown-up companies use the best tools for the job. Apple doesn't make any high-end workstations or any servers, so they'll have to use what's available.

It's just sad that Apple seems to be surrendering the upper end markets bit by bit. Makes me wonder if customers such as video houses are going to Windows computers, how long will Apple be able to keep the MacPro going and for what type of customer? If the requirements of the customers goes down won't the abilities of the MacPro be adjusted downwards as well?

 

[AidenShaw]

It's just sad that Apple seems to be surrendering the upper end markets bit by bit. Makes me wonder if customers such as video houses are going to Windows computers, how long will Apple be able to keep the MacPro going and for what type of customer? If the requirements of the customers goes down won't the abilities of the MacPro be adjusted downwards as well?

It had a huge downwards adjustment in 2013 (although customers' requirements didn't go down).

 

[JimGoshorn]

When they announced it at WWDC, they had testers saying how fast the machine was but made it a point to say that none of them actually saw what they were testing. Wonder what their impressions would have been if they were allowed to see while they were testing.

 

[AidenShaw]

When they announced it at WWDC, they had testers saying how fast the machine was but made it a point to say that none of them actually saw what they were testing. Wonder what their impressions would have been if they were allowed to see while they were testing.

...or if it had stayed a blind test, but they could try apps other than FCPX.

 

[flat five]

It is a bit humorous though. Apple running it's Mac services on Windows computers. It would be like a camera company competing with another company but using the other companies cameras for it's advertising.

apple only makes personal computers.. i don't think you should really expect them to use mac pros for this: (or similar)
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-kind-of-gear-is-apple-using-in-its-huge-new-datacenter-2011-6

 

[JimGoshorn]

apple only makes personal computers.. i don't think you should really expect them to use mac pros for this: (or similar)

When they made them weren't their servers supposed to be for that use?

 

[blindpcguy]

apple should just sell a motherboard that runs os x and let us build mac pcs. for this purpose. all they would have to do is make a ATX tower motherboard and we could go to town building the system we want for MacOS Seira they could even limit the chips that work in it to specific i series or xeons and such that would be the end all be all mac pro

 

[flat five]

When they made them weren't their servers supposed to be for that use?

yeah.. but apple got out of the business of selling products that sit in dark caves all day long.. they sell things that they intend individual people to use. (this is clear to everybody, right?)


i don't know.. it seems you're wishing for some sort of halo effect here.. like, you have absolute zero chance of ever buying or owning or using something like this:
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/proliant-servers/product-detail.html?oid=8255128

..but you still wish apple would make them anyway.
?
why? what does it matter?

 

[Hank Carter]

Your eight ball exhibits precognitive tendencies. New design has only single socket. Cannot know which E5 v4 processors installed but compare prices of Broadwell-EP to Ivy Bridge-EP: E5-2697 v4 2.3 GHz 18 core is near price of E5-2697 v2 2.7 GHz 12 core in Tubular Pro. Also compare TDP and see Broadwell-EP is higher. Tube already has cooling problems so yet another reason Apple forced to eat the crow.

Cannot identify PSU wattage. Two double wide PCIe slots, but is PSU sufficient for best silicon of AMD/Nvidia? Several logic board connectors present, two appear to be mini-6-pin, so traces maybe limit power to midrange GPU choices.

Impossible to rack mount as the shape is not normal. Heh, not normal at all.

One more thing...

Remember I described new Mac Pro iteration as the Tick in a Tick Tock cycle. Skylake-EP, aka Purely, will be greatest advance since Nehalem. TDP reportedly even higher than Broadwell-EP, especially with higher core counts. Sell lots of "Tick" Mac Pros, then entice buyers to upgrade only a year later with Skylake-EP "Tock" revision. Tick Tock.

Great. Now I'm going to be looking over my shoulder for the black Apple helicopters until release...

Sorry Tim. I know nothing. Just a stab in the dark based on the facts at hand.