macOS 10.14 Mojave on Unsupported Macs Thread

[Opinion Leader / Analyst]

I installed it on a virtual machine on MacBook Pro early 2011, everything is working fine except for 2 things
1. the new apps like news don't work, I presume there is no way to make them work without a metal supported hardware
2. its slow and laggy, which is normal considering its a beta and its running on a virtual machine not taking advantage of the hardware

Based on that I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to patch it to make it install on older device, the only things that won't work are iOS Apps.

how did you do that? I'm getting "Unable to create the installation media" (iMac mid 2011)

 

[tnicely83]

2010 CTO models had quad core i5, i5 in 2011 models are all quad core.
[doublepost=1528419074][/doublepost]
No Apple used 2 core - 4 thread Desktop i5's in 21" model: https://ark.intel.com/products/48504/Intel-Core-i5-680-Processor-4M-Cache-3_60-GHz

Awesome

 

[AwlsomeAlex]

So is the MacBook Pro Mid 2010 (13" Core2Duo - GeForce 320M) one completely like hopeless? I know the kexts don't load, but can't kexts be created or modified? I'm not sure what has to go into it to make them. Or is it possible something could come up in the GM for XNU to maybe somehow make it work? *Crossing Fingers...*

 

[evilcomputer96]

Hello to everyone,

Is there any chance that my MacBook Pro Mid 2010 is supported.

Thank you !

 

[AwlsomeAlex]

Hello to everyone,

Is there any chance that my MacBook Pro Mid 2010 is supported.

Thank you !

When they get the Intel Kexts to load and enable OpenGL. You're in a better situation than me with that i5 and Intel HD Graphics.

Its a no for now.

 

[evilcomputer96]

When they get the Intel Kexts to load and enable OpenGL. You're in a better situation than me with that i5 and Intel HD Graphics.

Its a no for now.

So that means no NVIDIA 330M ever . Only the IGPU ?
Thank you very much for the reply !

 

[tnicely83]

Abcdefg12345, will Xcode run on the vm enough to practice code with the new frameworks? I like all the stuff 10.14 will have, but to me the only thing I want is the new version of Xcode. If I can access it with parallels then I’m pretty cool. I have a early 2011 MacBook Pro 15 too. I just love my hi res anti glare, and I don’t want to give it up! I know the retina looks better but I use my laptop outside, and the retina still has glare. I’m sure I will break down and buy a retina now... sad week

 

[iphone2g&3gfan]

When they get the Intel Kexts to load and enable OpenGL. You're in a better situation than me with that i5 and Intel HD Graphics.

Its a no for now.

Two things:
1) The hope for loading old graphics kexts is the same for all gpus that were dropped in Mojave. The idea as I have heard it is that 1) WindowServer (executable that runs the entire UI) has a fallback OpenGL mode that it runs through a software-based OpenGL renderer when booted in safe mode. (since there are no graphics drivers loaded in safe mode, and the UI is completely hardware accelerated, so in safe mode it has to be run through a software GPU API renderer, and I guess they didn't have a metal one ready in time, hence why the UIKit apps don't render at all, since they're metal only, but the rest of the apps do show something, because the OpenGL is being rendered). 2) Then, we bypass the checks of WindowServer that block OpenGL rendering outside of safe mode, and then 3) we load the old OpenGL-only graphics accelerators for our dropped gpus.

Now, we are still at 2) according to the most recent update from the collaboration that is working on reverse-engineering and disassembling the WindowServer binary located in SkyLight.framework. We know for a fact apparently that WindowServer still has that OpenGL rendering code (since its used in safe mode) and we are disabling the checks for safe mode so we can then try 3) and load the old graphics drivers. Thus, there is no difference whatsoever regarding what GPU you have, except its metal support. If you don't have metal support, then you are part of the same group. All the non-metal gpus have the same shot as any other non-metal gpu.

 

[AwlsomeAlex]

Two things:
1) The hope for loading old graphics kexts is the same for all gpus that were dropped in Mojave. The idea as I have heard it is that 1) WindowServer (executable that runs the entire UI) has a fallback OpenGL mode that it runs through a software-based OpenGL renderer when booted in safe mode. (since there are no graphics drivers loaded in safe mode, and the UI is completely hardware accelerated, so in safe mode it has to be run through a software GPU API renderer, and I guess they didn't have a metal one ready in time, hence why the UIKit apps don't render at all, since they're metal only, but the rest of the apps do show something, because the OpenGL is being rendered). 2) Then, we bypass the checks of WindowServer that block OpenGL rendering outside of safe mode, and then 3) we load the old OpenGL-only graphics accelerators for our dropped gpus.

Now, we are still at 2) according to the most recent update from the collaboration that is working on reverse-engineering and disassembling the WindowServer binary located in SkyLight.framework. We know for a fact apparently that WindowServer still has that OpenGL rendering code (since its used in safe mode) and we are disabling the checks for safe mode so we can then try 3) and load the old graphics drivers. Thus, there is no difference whatsoever regarding what GPU you have, except its metal support. If you don't have metal support, then you are part of the same group. All the non-metal gpus have the same shot as any other non-metal gpu.

That clears it up, a lot. However why on the first post it says that 320M won't work EVER.

 

[iphone2g&3gfan]

So that means no NVIDIA 330M ever . Only the IGPU ?
Thank you very much for the reply !

That nvidia 330m is in my own 15 inch 2010 model, and it's dead. We are pretty sure that the nvidia web drivers won't support tesla (excepting some miracle from Apple of their own GT120 from MacPro4,1 that they said they will support with a GPU upgrade only (so no gt120), and they backtrack on that). The arrandale Intel HD Graphics' performance was awful anyway, on High Sierra even, launchpad ran at like 15fps. Opening folders was like 10fps. I began to see why it would actually make sense to drop that GPU, I mean it was pretty bad. Now the tesla GT 330m was fine, but it was an old arch (back from 2006). Who knows, WindowServer may get patched... And we then maybe, just maybe, load the High Sierra drivers and we get some support for all the dropped gpus like yours, but there's a lot of variables involved...
[doublepost=1528424182][/doublepost]

That clears it up, a lot. However why on the first post it says that 320M won't work EVER.

Well, that's not exactly true. I don't want to change the front post, since it's not mine, but anyone can edit it. Maybe I should? I know that's not true, it's still a maybe, but I should probably get permission from dosdude1.

@dosdude1, could we fix some of that? I don't want to touch it without your go-ahead, but I think it can be improved.

 

[redheeler]

June 6: There is still an OpenGL renderer, it's just intentionally disabled. we're trying to enable it.

Interesting new development. All the posters who have tried to argue that it's impossible for Apple to keep supporting OpenGL, and now we find out it's still there but intentionally disabled.

It literally, not figuratively, isn't a reasonable request. It's obvious you have no clue about the sheer scope of work involved in such a thing.

Well, there you have it. In reality, it would have been easier for Apple to keep supporting 2011 Macs than even I thought.

 

[Appleak]

I get rid of compatibility checks by adding my iMac board id into supportedmacs.plist then clicked osinstall-legacy.mpkg
see screenshot below
now I wonder how it may boot my 21.5'' imac mid2010? what can I do then?

 

[iphone2g&3gfan]

I get rid of compatibility checks by adding my iMac board id into supportedmacs.plist then clicked osinstall-legacy.mpkg
see screenshot below
now I wonder how it may boot my 21.5'' imac mid2010? what can I do then?

Now, on a 'traditional' unsupported OS install, you would edit /S/L/E/PlatformSupport.plist. However, apparently even after adding your board-id to that, boot.efi still says unsupported mac. I haven't heard a concrete stance on how people are booting unsupported macs, so:

How are you guys doing it? Apparently editing PlatformSupport.plist doesn't work, so what might indeed work?

 

[Appleak]

Now, on a 'traditional' unsupported OS install, you would edit /S/L/E/PlatformSupport.plist. However, apparently even after adding your board-id to that, boot.efi still says unsupported mac. I haven't heard a concrete stance on how people are booting unsupported macs, so:

How are you guys doing it? Apparently editing PlatformSupport.plist doesn't work, so what might indeed work?

I forget to edit unsupportedmacs.plist! my bad!
idk how to enter nor edit boot.efi of my iMac you can tell me guys about pls
will check s/l/e before booting

 

[prisstratton]

I am not understanding something, can someone please enlighten me.

Everyone seem’s to be talking about the necessity of having Metal support. If that is the case, how do MacBook Air’s with integrated Intel graphics fit that requirement…….and, if they fit the requirement, how come my MBP (see my sig.) would not.

Thank you.

 

[ifrit05]

Some of the i5 iMacs of that era are quad-core.
The i7 iMacs are quad-core with hyper threading.

i5's in MacBook's are always dual core\4 threads (pseudo quad), while older i7's are dual/4 threads (psuedo quad) and starting with Sandy Bridge dual\4t for low end models and quad\8t (pseudo 8 core) for higher end models.

 

[EugW]

i5's in MacBook's are always dual core\4 threads (pseudo quad), while older i7's are dual/4 threads (psuedo quad) and starting with Sandy Bridge dual\4t for low end models and quad\8t (pseudo 8 core) for higher end models.

We were talking about iMacs. Apple was selling both dual-core i5 and quad-core i5 27" iMacs back in 2010.

2010 3.6 GHz dual-core i5 iMac
2010 2.8 GHz quad-core i5 iMac

BTW, in 2018, the i5 MacBook Pros will go quad-core.

 

[parrotgeek1]

That nvidia 330m is in my own 15 inch 2010 model, and it's dead. We are pretty sure that the nvidia web drivers won't support tesla (excepting some miracle from Apple of their own GT120 from MacPro4,1 that they said they will support with a GPU upgrade only (so no gt120), and they backtrack on that). The arrandale Intel HD Graphics' performance was awful anyway, on High Sierra even, launchpad ran at like 15fps. Opening folders was like 10fps. I began to see why it would actually make sense to drop that GPU, I mean it was pretty bad. Now the tesla GT 330m was fine, but it was an old arch (back from 2006). Who knows, WindowServer may get patched... And we then maybe, just maybe, load the High Sierra drivers and we get some support for all the dropped gpus like yours, but there's a lot of variables involved...
[doublepost=1528424182][/doublepost]
Well, that's not exactly true. I don't want to change the front post, since it's not mine, but anyone can edit it. Maybe I should? I know that's not true, it's still a maybe, but I should probably get permission from dosdude1.

@dosdude1, could we fix some of that? I don't want to touch it without your go-ahead, but I think it can be improved.

No it is correct. The old GPU driver for NVIDIA and AMD both use functions that were deleted in the new 10.14 kernel, in a part of the kernel that is not and has never been open source. For some reason that is not true of the Intel drivers.

 

[ifrit05]

We need the new XNU source stat!

 

[parrotgeek1]

So is the MacBook Pro Mid 2010 (13" Core2Duo - GeForce 320M) one completely like hopeless? I know the kexts don't load, but can't kexts be created or modified? I'm not sure what has to go into it to make them. Or is it possible something could come up in the GM for XNU to maybe somehow make it work? *Crossing Fingers...*

This is what is going on.

The graphics framework has a list of functions that, to grossly oversimplify things, are called by number rather than name. In 10.14, Apple removed a function from the MIDDLE of this list. But the old drivers don't know. Therefore when the kext thinks it's running function N, it gets function N-1...etc

No, it is not reasonably possible to fix this, because the number is not only in one place but referenced every one of the dozens of times a certain function is used.
[doublepost=1528427174][/doublepost]

We need the new XNU source stat!

Those functions are unfortunately in a part of the kernel that is not and has never been open source.
[doublepost=1528427257][/doublepost]

I am not understanding something, can someone please enlighten me.

Everyone seem’s to be talking about the necessity of having Metal support. If that is the case, how do MacBook Air’s with integrated Intel graphics fit that requirement…….and, if they fit the requirement, how come my MBP (see my sig.) would not.

Thank you.

The Intel drivers are the only drivers that are even partly compatible with the new kernel. We're not sure why that happens to be the case but it is.

 

[prisstratton]

The Intel drivers are the only drivers that are even partly compatible with the new kernel. We're not sure why that happens to be the case but it is.

Thank you for replying. It sounds like things are just unfolding, I imagine there will be lots more information to come.

 

[BookEmDanno]

​

A possibility for some computers is a Thunderbolt external GPU.
This needs to be investigated more, and requires kext patches.

These facts leave the compatibility list as theoretically (with a Metal capable GPU, or HD Graphics whose kexts do load):

• Xserve 2008 (if we can fix the crash; Nvidia GPUs only until SSE4.2 emulator made)
• Xserve 2009
• Mac Pro 2008 (if we can fix the crash; Nvidia GPUs only until SSE4.2 emulator made)
• Mac Pro 2009
• iMac Mid-Late 2011 (Thunderbolt GPU only)
• MacBook Air Mid 2011
• MacBook Pro i5/i7 Mid 2010-Late 2011 (only the ones with HD Graphics or Thunderbolt GPU, 320M/330M won't work ever)
• Mac Mini Mid 2011 (only the ones with HD Graphics, or Thunderbolt GPU, not AMD)

The following unsupported models are Thunderbolt capable:

• MacBook Pro (Early/Late 2011)
• MacBook Air (Mid 2011)
• Mac mini (Mid 2011)
• iMac (Mid 2011)

Yet a third possibility is to upgrade the MXM slot GPU on 2008-2011 (and maybe 2007 with an upgraded CPU?) iMacs. This has not been investigated yet.

.

Hello Dosdude1 and others,

I have a Macbook Air Mid 2011 that is not on the official macOS Mojave supported hardware list. But based on your note here and I quote "
compatibility list as theoretically (with a Metal capable GPU, or HD Graphics whose kexts do load)",
My MBAir is on this "compatibility" list.

My question, will you be releasing a "patch updater", similar to your high sierra one?. Or do I even need one to install Mojave based on your compatibility list?

I am in the Apple Developer Program and have the Mojave developer beta 1 already downloaded, ready to install.

Mahalo and Aloha for all your efforts.

Danny

 

[parrotgeek1]

Hello Dosdude1 and others,

I have a Macbook Air Mid 2011 that is not on the official macOS Mojave supported hardware list. But based on your note here and I quote "
compatibility list as theoretically (with a Metal capable GPU, or HD Graphics whose kexts do load)",
My MBAir is on this "compatibility" list.

My question, will you be releasing a "patch updater", similar to your high sierra one?. Or do I even need one to install Mojave based on your compatibility list?

I am in the Apple Developer Program and have the Mojave developer beta 1 already downloaded, ready to install.

Mahalo and Aloha for all your efforts.

Thanks for your support.

To be honest we don't know whether HD Graphics will be supported. It's just the only GPU that looks even remotely possible.

We will be releasing a patcher but probably not anytime in the next month. It's very hard to reverse engineer GPU drivers.

P.S. please edit your post to delete the quote of the OP, It's too long

 

[iphone2g&3gfan]

No it is correct. The old GPU driver for NVIDIA and AMD both use functions that were deleted in the new 10.14 kernel, in a part of the kernel that is not and has never been open source. For some reason that is not true of the Intel drivers.

This is what is going on.

The graphics framework has a list of functions that, to grossly oversimplify things, are called by number rather than name. In 10.14, Apple removed a function from the MIDDLE of this list. But the old drivers don't know. Therefore when the kext thinks it's running function N, it gets function N-1...etc
[doublepost=1528427174][/doublepost]
Those functions are unfortunately in a part of the kernel that is not and has never been open source.
[doublepost=1528427257][/doublepost]
The Intel drivers are the only drivers that are even partly compatible with the new kernel. We're not sure why that happens to be the case but it is.

What functions are those, and in what framework? Is it CoreGraphics, or a kext? IOAccelerator? What is that part of the kernel? For years we had wanted the XCPM part of the kernel that was not ever part of the tarballs of XNU... what part is this one? Like what dependencies are broken for the AMD and Nvidia kexts that are not broken for the Intel ones? I feel like this is another difference from the source trees I saw by searching the binaries:

AMD + Nvidia: part of the "GraphicsDrivers" source tree
Intel HD 4000+: part of the "GPUDriversIntel" source tree
Intel HD 3000 and prior: part of the "GraphicsDrivers" source tree

I know I'm asking so many questions, and I'm very sorry if I'm outoftheloop, but I just wanted to see if maybe there's something I can help out with. I loaded AppleIntelBDWGraphics and all its accelerators on Mavericks once by replacing a few kexts with dependencies like IOAccelerator, so maybe I've seen something you guys are trying and I can help out, you know. I renamed a few functions in the BDWGraphics binary from the _darwin14 (yosemite) to the regular functions and a few more binary edits, and I got it to load.

Wanted to offer help since it seems like you guys are doing something quite difficult, understandably.

Thank you all for the huge effort you're undertaking.

EDIT: From the original post, apparently the AMD kexts use SSE4.2 functions? Which AMD kexts/accelerators use them, and what are the SSE4.2 instructions being used? Hopefully Apple fixes the SSE4.2 instructions stuff (in DP2 maybe) because they are going to support MacPro4,1 + 5,1, so they must support the gpu's ppl are going to upgrade in their Mac Pros. It might just be that this is the very issue Apple promised to fix "in a later beta" so we may just want to wait. Apple won't let such a big kernel panic go unnoticed in DP2 or even GM, they'll implement a fix. So I don't think we should focus on that yet because Apple will most certainly fix that for us.

 

[stormxeron]

June 7: Unfortunately, some (all?) old AMD/Nvidia Kexts don't even load! So there is no hope for OpenGL until (if) we get them to load. We haven't checked all Intel or AMD kexts yet.

Some AMD Kexts loads... Which AMD models will work then if you don't mind me asking?