macOS 10.14 Mojave on Unsupported Macs Thread

[SDAVE]

I know. It's too bad the graphics industry is jostling for position. Metal hopes to squash Vulkan (unfortunately cause the high level architectural design is similar). Apple of course wants to gobble everything...they hardly attended/participated any of the OpenGL consortium conferences and have been trying to replace GL for almost 10 years. I haven't played with MoltentVK, is it worth it?

Yeah, Jobs was hesitant on supporting OpenGL and John Carmack kind of convinced him to reconsider.

The issue is no one cares about gaming on macOS, and OpenGL was kind of for that.

Metal is only on Apple devices/OS's so no one is going to adapt it anywhere else since it's a closed garden system.

Vulkan is open ended unlike DirectX and Metal.

MoltenVK easily translates Vulkan to macOS, because before if a game was developed for DirectX it would require a lot of work to translate over to macOS. Now it's super easy. But who has the incentive to do that?

If you look at the latest Doom (not Eternal) and Wolfenstein II, they are on Vulkan and could be ported to macOS easily...but will they?

Apple has hired a lot of AMD engineers to develop Metal, but it's still very closed source.

Apple needs to work with Adobe to make their apps not suck on the Mac. It's REALLY saddening. I don't know anyone who doesn't use Adobe apps on macOS.

 

[thegurgz]

So which size is it?View attachment 776386

 

[TimothyR734]

So which size is it?View attachment 776386

that looks like the full installer the update should be about 3.27 or so that might work if you do the post install patches

 

[DearthnVader]

did you install the post install patches for your Mac ?

Thanks, I missed that step, working now.

 

[pkouame]

Yeah, Jobs was hesitant on supporting OpenGL and John Carmack kind of convinced him to reconsider.

The issue is no one cares about gaming on macOS, and OpenGL was kind of for that.

Metal is only on Apple devices/OS's so no one is going to adapt it anywhere else since it's a closed garden system.

Vulkan is open ended unlike DirectX and Metal.

MoltenVK easily translates Vulkan to macOS, because before if a game was developed for DirectX it would require a lot of work to translate over to macOS. Now it's super easy. But who has the incentive to do that?

If you look at the latest Doom (not Eternal) and Wolfenstein II, they are on Vulkan and could be ported to macOS easily...but will they?

Apple has hired a lot of AMD engineers to develop Metal, but it's still very closed source.

Apple needs to work with Adobe to make their apps not suck on the Mac. It's REALLY saddening. I don't know anyone who doesn't use Adobe apps on macOS.

Yes, Jobs' ego could not tower over God Carmack...Nevertheless, closing the architecture doomed Mac gaming forever and they still haven't recovered. The thing is, they now have no reason to care. Low res gaming on mobile devices is far more lucrative (e.g. candy crush) and VR is the real future of high end gaming. So serial eGPU chassis on high speed thunderbolt like busses are taking off like no tomorrow. This is the perfect time for them to drop GL and CL. As for Adobe, they will slowly migrate their full apps to iPads with custom ARM X and T chips. They don't care, and Apple will gladly lend a hand. It's all already programmed. Sad for us for sure, everything swinging back to proprietary architectures and code.
My interest is mainly high speed scientific computing and data science, so Metal couldn't have come faster - whatever allows me to directly leverage the raw power of a gpu without too much overhead. MoltenVK looks pretty neat. I will look into it. Thanks.

 

[pioneer200569]

Hi I know this is gonna sound really stupid but need help just upgraded my Mac Pro to High Sierra but my unflash Radeon 7970 and I just get a white screen now do I have to have it flashed or am I gonna do use the graphic card my friend gave me that I was originally using for it to work for now also probably looking up to upgrade to Mojave

 

[ASentientBot]

Is there a way to exploit the system and “force de-compile” things?

Sort of. You can use a tool like Hopper Disassembler to decompile a program into assembler, but this is much more low-level and harder to read than the original C++ or whatever code. Then you can edit the assembler and create a new executable. This is how I fixed the nVidia Tesla crash.
[doublepost=1534480324][/doublepost]

I just end up in a reboot loop on my Mac Pro3,1 with Mojave pb5.

Install goes fine, but when I reboot to the setup assistant the machine reboots with no real way to see what the error is?

Edit: I found the panic log.

--- snip ---

This looks super familiar, almost like the telemetry plugin crash @jackluke and I fixed back on like page 70. Never used the patcher but have you installed whatever the Penryn/C2D patch?
[doublepost=1534480373][/doublepost]Also, for what it's worth. Panic logs like this are only kind of useful. Boot with keepsyms=1 to show the actual function names in the stack trace.
[doublepost=1534480453][/doublepost](Sorry for the spam...)

Could somebody fill me in on the HFS+ vs APFS difficulties? I'm using DP7 on HFS+ with zero problems. I'm on a MacBook7,1 though so I should really convert the SSD to APFS anyways.

Also! DP7 fixes the save dialogs so that it remembers the previous folder
[doublepost=1534481065][/doublepost]@dosdude1, out of curiosity what is the exact reason the newer AMD drivers won't load? Is this because they use SSE4.2 instructions? Or is it something else? (I don't have a computer with that hardware or I'd be testing it myself.)

 

[TimothyR734]

Sort of. You can use a tool like Hopper Disassembler to decompile a program into assembler, but this is much more low-level and harder to read than the original C++ or whatever code. Then you can edit the assembler and create a new executable. This is how I fixed the nVidia Tesla crash.
[doublepost=1534480324][/doublepost]
This looks super familiar, almost like the telemetry plugin crash @jackluke and I fixed back on like page 70. Never used the patcher but have you installed whatever the Penryn/C2D patch?
[doublepost=1534480373][/doublepost]Also, for what it's worth. Panic logs like this are only kind of useful. Boot with keepsyms=1 to show the actual function names in the stack trace.
[doublepost=1534480453][/doublepost](Sorry for the spam...)

Could somebody fill me in on the HFS+ vs APFS difficulties? I'm using DP7 on HFS+ with zero problems. I'm on a MacBook7,1 though so I should really convert the SSD to APFS anyways.

Also! DP7 fixes the save dialogs so that it remembers the previous folder

when DP 2 came out I formatted my hdd to APFS and installed DP2 then I updated each beta from the software update so around DP4 pkouame pm me for my install logs and compared them with a few other member's install logs those who were using HFS were getting error messages in the log files and I wasn't so we think the software update looks for something in the APFS container

 

[pkouame]

Sort of. You can use a tool like Hopper Disassembler to decompile a program into assembler, but this is much more low-level and harder to read than the original C++ or whatever code. Then you can edit the assembler and create a new executable. This is how I fixed the nVidia Tesla crash.
[doublepost=1534480324][/doublepost]
This looks super familiar, almost like the telemetry plugin crash @jackluke and I fixed back on like page 70. Never used the patcher but have you installed whatever the Penryn/C2D patch?
[doublepost=1534480373][/doublepost]Also, for what it's worth. Panic logs like this are only kind of useful. Boot with keepsyms=1 to show the actual function names in the stack trace.
[doublepost=1534480453][/doublepost](Sorry for the spam...)

Could somebody fill me in on the HFS+ vs APFS difficulties? I'm using DP7 on HFS+ with zero problems. I'm on a MacBook7,1 though so I should really convert the SSD to APFS anyways.

Also! DP7 fixes the save dialogs so that it remembers the previous folder
[doublepost=1534481065][/doublepost]@dosdude1, out of curiosity what is the exact reason the newer AMD drivers won't load? Is this because they use SSE4.2 instructions? Or is it something else? (I don't have a computer with that hardware or I'd be testing it myself.)

To add to @TimothyR734 - we got a few other logs from some brave souls and it seems like most of us still on HFS+ were experiencing the same difficulties system updating to a new beta. Full install (via a variety of different ways) have never been a real issue. I also noticed that we were all blocking on the same file system errors before the system update hurled and stopped -> "Your up to date?" @Olivia88 then ran a quick proof of this theory by converting to APFS and things started to pop. Coincidentally @dosdude1 finished his revamp of the APFS ROM Patcher allowing most of us to transition to APFS smoothly. I installed dp6 again on APFS and (after enrolling) got a 3.7GB system update for the first time since dp3. Others have done so to. That's the summary.

My theory is that Mojave just hums better on APFS. I do know that APFS supports the full set of file system extended attributes much better than HFS+. Many things on HFS+ were choking on weird sandbox and mdwrite errors (check your console) . Ever since I upgraded to APFS those types of errors (prohibiting access to key assets like plists) have tremendously diminished. I mean in a huge way. So we may be on to something.

I can confirm Mojave runs much better on APFS, plus file system ops like moving big files around is a lot faster! I almost never get a file copy panel when moving large applications around. I poopoo'ed the need for it (enough to deal with on our unsupported boxes) but it's worth it.

 

[thegurgz]

Okay, spent the day moving files back onto my Mojave drive after clean install. Installed DP6 (was the version on my usb stick), then converted to APFS. Booted back in, got the dev beta update in System Preferences. I am wondering if I should use the software update to update or use the patcher stick. Last night, after running the software update, the APFS container corrupted and I had to start over, so I am weary of using the native updater, but lightning is said not to strike twice. Any recommendations?

 

[TimothyR734]

To add to @TimothyR734 - we got a few other logs from some brave souls and it seems like most of us still on HFS+ were experiencing the same difficulties system updating to a new beta. Full install (via a variety of different ways) have never been a real issue. I also noticed that we were all blocking on the same file system errors before the system update hurled and stopped -> "Your up to date?" @Olivia88 then ran a quick proof of this theory by converting to APFS and things started to pop. Coincidentally @dosdude1 finished his revamp of the APFS ROM Patcher allowing most of us to transition to APFS smoothly. I installed dp6 again on APFS and (after enrolling) got a 3.7GB system update for the first time since dp3. Others have done so to. That's the summary.

My theory is that Mojave just hums better on APFS. I do know that APFS supports the full set of file system extended attributes much better than HFS+. Many things on HFS+ were choking on weird sandbox and mdwrite errors (check your console) . Ever since I upgraded to APFS those types of errors (prohibiting access to key assets like plists) have tremendously diminished. I mean in a huge way. So we may be on to something.

I can confirm Mojave runs much better on APFS, plus file system ops like moving big files around is a lot faster! I almost never get a file copy panel when moving large applications around. I poopoo'ed the need for it (enough to deal with on our unsupported boxes) but it's worth it.

I agree I think APFS is the way to go, my theory is that Apple is depreciating HFS much like openGL and APFS will be a requirement this was Apple's gotcha while were sorting out other issues

 

[SDAVE]

If anyone can figure out AMD support, I will donate my children to you

 

[thegurgz]

Also, I talked with an apple support agent, and he tipped me off that when macOS Mojave releases to the public, APFS will be mandatory in order to run Mojave. He didn't seem like the most insightful guy, but that surprised me. He also said that currently the apple developers working on Mojave are all using HFS+ instead of APFS due to some bugs happening with APFS right now. Don't know what this means for the future of unsupported macs, but APFS seems like the only future to Apple, even though its buggy.
[doublepost=1534486302][/doublepost]

I agree I think APFS is the way to go, my theory is that Apple is depreciating HFS much like openGL and APFS will be a requirement this was Apple's gotcha while were sorting out other issues

I think your assumption is correct due to my findings talking to support.

 

[dosdude1]

Sort of. You can use a tool like Hopper Disassembler to decompile a program into assembler, but this is much more low-level and harder to read than the original C++ or whatever code. Then you can edit the assembler and create a new executable. This is how I fixed the nVidia Tesla crash.
[doublepost=1534480324][/doublepost]
This looks super familiar, almost like the telemetry plugin crash @jackluke and I fixed back on like page 70. Never used the patcher but have you installed whatever the Penryn/C2D patch?
[doublepost=1534480373][/doublepost]Also, for what it's worth. Panic logs like this are only kind of useful. Boot with keepsyms=1 to show the actual function names in the stack trace.
[doublepost=1534480453][/doublepost](Sorry for the spam...)

Could somebody fill me in on the HFS+ vs APFS difficulties? I'm using DP7 on HFS+ with zero problems. I'm on a MacBook7,1 though so I should really convert the SSD to APFS anyways.

Also! DP7 fixes the save dialogs so that it remembers the previous folder
[doublepost=1534481065][/doublepost]@dosdude1, out of curiosity what is the exact reason the newer AMD drivers won't load? Is this because they use SSE4.2 instructions? Or is it something else? (I don't have a computer with that hardware or I'd be testing it myself.)

Under High Sierra, the main reason why the AMD drivers for Radeon HD 5xxx series and later cards don't load on the Mac Pro 3,1 is due to lack of SSE4.2 support by the 3,1's CPUs. The AMD drivers for the older Radeon HD 4xxx series and older cards don't require SSE4.2, and therefore will load fine. The newer AMD drivers will, of course, load fine on machines that support SSE4.2. However, with Mojave, the drivers for Radeon HD 5xxx and 6xxx series don't exist, since those cards don't support Metal. However, for some unknown reason, the drivers for these cards from High Sierra load (of course only on machines supporting SSE4.2), but do NOT provide acceleration. The AMD drivers from High Sierra for Radeon HD 4xxx series and earlier load fine, and provide full acceleration in Mojave (even on systems that don't support SSE4.2), just like the Intel iGPU and nVidia drivers from High Sierra do also.

 

[TimothyR734]

Okay, spent the day moving files back onto my Mojave drive after clean install. Installed DP6 (was the version on my usb stick), then converted to APFS. Booted back in, got the dev beta update in System Preferences. I am wondering if I should use the software update to update or use the patcher stick. Last night, after running the software update, the APFS container corrupted and I had to start over, so I am weary of using the native updater, but lightning is said not to strike twice. Any recommendations?

before doing the update run first aid to make sure there are no errors

 

[16v]

maybe try onyx

Yeah...
Onyx not available for mojave...
i already hav it installed but wont run.

Another idea?

 

[thegurgz]

before doing the update run first aid to make sure there are no errors

But should I just use the patcher or native update?

 

[TimothyR734]

try the native update then use the patcher and do the post install patches again, I don't know if night shift has been added back in the patch updater yet that would be the next to install when you get in the desktop if you check post 5176 I didn't mention about Apple depreciating HFS unless I can find a way to get the APFS Rom Patcher to work on my MacBook 5,2 I might have to go back to High Sierra
[doublepost=1534487976][/doublepost]

Yeah...
Onyx not available for mojave...
i already hav it installed but wont run.

Another idea?

do you have kext utility

 

[ASentientBot]

--- snip ---
However, for some unknown reason, the drivers for these cards from High Sierra load (of course only on machines supporting SSE4.2), but do NOT provide acceleration.
--- snip ---

So this is the issue that needs to be investigated. Man, I really want to screw around with this. What's the cheapest of these machines I can find on eBay or the like?

To add to @TimothyR734 - we got a few other logs from some brave souls and it seems like most of us still on HFS+ were experiencing the same difficulties system updating to a new beta. Full install (via a variety of different ways) have never been a real issue. I also noticed that we were all blocking on the same file system errors before the system update hurled and stopped -> "Your up to date?" @Olivia88 then ran a quick proof of this theory by converting to APFS and things started to pop. Coincidentally @dosdude1 finished his revamp of the APFS ROM Patcher allowing most of us to transition to APFS smoothly. I installed dp6 again on APFS and (after enrolling) got a 3.7GB system update for the first time since dp3. Others have done so to. That's the summary.

My theory is that Mojave just hums better on APFS. I do know that APFS supports the full set of file system extended attributes much better than HFS+. Many things on HFS+ were choking on weird sandbox and mdwrite errors (check your console) . Ever since I upgraded to APFS those types of errors (prohibiting access to key assets like plists) have tremendously diminished. I mean in a huge way. So we may be on to something.

I can confirm Mojave runs much better on APFS, plus file system ops like moving big files around is a lot faster! I almost never get a file copy panel when moving large applications around. I poopoo'ed the need for it (enough to deal with on our unsupported boxes) but it's worth it.

I'm convinced. Will be booting from my HS drive and converting to APFS sometime soon. Thanks for the in-depth explanation!

 

[olad]

when DP 2 came out I formatted my hdd to APFS and installed DP2 then I updated each beta from the software update so around DP4 pkouame pm me for my install logs and compared them with a few other member's install logs those who were using HFS were getting error messages in the log files and I wasn't so we think the software update looks for something in the APFS container

would you be kind enough to punctuate your (decidedly useful) postings? they ARE hard to read, and require more time to decipher. thank you.

 

[Olivia88]

So this is the issue that needs to be investigated. Man, I really want to screw around with this. What's the cheapest of these machines I can find on eBay or the like?

If you buy a 2011 15 inch with a broken GPU, you can usually get them at around 150$ on eBay. I don't think there's any idea to buy a working one anyway as the gpu might die any second.

I would preferrably buy one where you can see the logic board. If you can see yellowish discolouration where the gpu sits as in the picture, or if its all over the board, don't buy it, as that means the gpu was already reflowed or replaced.

You can probably get it working long enough to try out any tests by heating up the gpu, just make sure that its not completely dead before you buy it. You can always sell it again afterwards or just use it with the intel gpu, but buy at your own risk !

 

[16v]

[doublepost=1534487976][/doublepost]
do you have kext utility

No i don´t

 

[mrploppy]

would you be kind enough to punctuate your (decidedly useful) postings? they ARE hard to read, and require more time to decipher. thank you.

I agree with you, but you could also help by starting your sentences with a capital letter. Makes it much easier to read.

 

[olad]

I agree with you, but you could also help by starting your sentences with a capital letter. Makes it much easier to read.

Will do.

 

[arqueox]

Anyone has made a usb with APFS format and install it with APFS format on a macbook with no issues? Just to check something, please.

Edit - Gives me error. Can't do it. Is there a way to do it? I am on a MacBook Pro late 2011.