macOS 11 Big Sur on Unsupported Macs Thread

[David dongfox]

Hello. How did you install Big Sur on Mac Mini 2012 and where can you download the system image?

go page 237 ,post #5671 follow that step by step. enjoy.

 

[GSXB]

When you say "100% vanilla", do you mean you didn't modify the Big Sur installer in any way or form? Did you simply install it, from Catalina booted using OC, on top of Catalina itself? Have you experienced any issues with sound/Wi-Fi/Bluetooth, et cetera? Do you have Night Shift?

Using Mojave downloaded from the App Store as a developer then installed it to an NVME no WiFi as yet ( needs upgrading ) Bluetooth dongle working, sound working using night owl no mods at all. Installed to a guid formatted HFS drive and Big Sur converted it to APFSin the fly all good working flawlessly

 

[MacHacJac]

Hi
i am running gibmacos but no version 11.0 are showing only 10.15. i have toggled the various options

#######################################################
# gibMacOS #
#######################################################

Available Products:

1. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 (19H15)
- 001-68446 - Added 2020-11-11 17:48:09 - 500.66 MB - FULL Install
2. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 Supplemental Update 10.15.7 (19H15)
- 001-73001 - Added 2020-11-05 18:13:06 - 500.66 MB
3. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 Update 10.15.7 (19H15)
- 001-57230 - Added 2020-11-05 18:12:55 - 500.66 MB
4. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 (19H4)
- 001-57224 - Added 2020-10-27 17:28:13 - 500.52 MB - FULL Install
5. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 Update 10.15.7 (19H2)
- 001-51032 - Added 2020-10-15 17:09:29 - 500.59 MB
6. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 Update 10.15.7 (19H2)
- 001-51037 - Added 2020-10-15 17:09:15 - 500.59 MB
7. Security Update 2020-005 10.14.6 (18G6032)
- 001-48327 - Added 2020-10-01 22:08:39 - 482.26 MB
8. Security Update 2020-005 10.13.6 (17G14033)
- 001-48382 - Added 2020-09-24 17:16:25 - 486.14 MB
9. macOS Catalina 10.15.7 (19H2)
- 001-51042 - Added 2020-09-24 17:09:31 - 500.59 MB - FULL Install
10. macOS Catalina 10.15.6 Supplemental Update 10.15.6 (19G2021)
- 001-36816 - Added 2020-09-04 17:10:43 - 500.45 MB
11. macOS Catalina 10.15.6 Update 10.15.6 (19G2021)
- 001-22632 - Added 2020-09-04 17:10:19 - 500.45 MB
12. macOS Catalina 10.15.6 Update 10.15.6 (19G2021)
- 001-22626 - Added 2020-09-04 17:09:38 - 500.45 MB
13. Security Update 2020-004 10.13.6 (17G14019)
- 001-08570 - Added 2020-09-04 17:09:02 - 486.03 MB
14. Security Update 2020-004 10.14.6 (18G6020)
- 001-26311 - Added 2020-09-04 17:08:26 - 482.16 MB
15. macOS 10.15.6 Update 10.15.6 (19G73)
- 061-94461 - Added 2020-09-04 17:07:35 - 500.42 MB
16. macOS 10.15.6 Update 10.15.6 (19G73)
- 061-94457 - Added 2020-09-04 17:06:00 - 500.42 MB
17. macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Update 10.15.5 (19F101)
- 001-12343 - Added 2020-09-04 17:05:08 - 500.23 MB
18. macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Update 10.15.5 (19F101)
- 001-12341 - Added 2020-09-04 17:04:24 - 500.23 MB
19. macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Supplemental Update 10.15.5 (19F101)
- 001-12339 - Added 2020-09-04 17:03:54 - 500.23 MB
20. macOS Catalina 10.15.6 (19G2021)
- 001-36801 - Added 2020-08-12 20:04:02 - 500.45 MB - FULL Install
21. macOS Catalina 10.15.6 (19G2006)
- 001-36735 - Added 2020-08-06 23:39:24 - 500.45 MB - FULL Install
22. macOS Catalina 10.15.5 (19F2200)
- 001-15219 - Added 2020-06-15 18:52:41 - 500.36 MB - FULL Install
23. macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Supplemental Update 10.15.5 (19F2200)
- 061-78585 - Added 2020-06-15 17:00:03 - 500.36 MB
24. macOS Catalina 10.15.4 (19E2269)
- 001-04366 - Added 2020-05-04 15:32:04 - 500.02 MB - FULL Install
25. macOS Catalina 10.15.3 (19D2064)
- 061-86291 - Added 2020-03-23 21:41:00 - 499.55 MB - FULL Install
26. macOS Mojave 10.14.6 Supplemental Update 2 10.14.6 (18G103)
- 061-41417 - Added 2019-10-24 18:25:52 - 481.99 MB
27. macOS 10.14.6 Update 10.14.6 (18G103)
- 061-41421 - Added 2019-10-24 18:24:51 - 481.99 MB
28. macOS 10.14.6 Update 10.14.6 (18G103)
- 061-41419 - Added 2019-10-24 18:22:50 - 481.99 MB
29. MacBook Pro Supplemental Update 10.14.5 (18F203)
- 041-88834 - Added 2019-10-23 17:12:57 - 481.55 MB
30. macOS Mojave 10.14.4 (18E2034)
- 041-88800 - Added 2019-10-23 14:41:18 - 491.50 MB - FULL Install
31. Install macOS High Sierra Beta 10.13.5 (17F66a)
- 041-90855 - Added 2019-10-23 14:41:18 - 486.92 MB - FULL Install
32. macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 (17G66)
- 041-91758 - Added 2019-10-19 18:19:55 - 487.84 MB - FULL Install
33. macOS 10.14.2 Update Combo 10.14.2 (18C54)
- 041-88764 - Added 2019-10-15 20:19:46 - 487.16 MB
34. macOS Mojave 10.14.6 (18G103)
- 061-26589 - Added 2019-10-14 20:51:08 - 481.99 MB - FULL Install
35. macOS Mojave 10.14.5 (18F2059)
- 061-26578 - Added 2019-10-14 20:38:26 - 481.64 MB - FULL Install
36. macOS 10.14.2 Update 10.14.2 (18C54)
- 041-91742 - Added 2019-10-09 19:42:38 - 487.16 MB

M. Change Max-OS Version (Currently 10.15)
C. Change Catalog (Currently publicrelease)
I. Only Print URLs (Currently False)
R. Toggle Recovery-Only (Currently On)
U. Show Catalog URL
Q. Quit

Using The M toggle and typing 11.0 does nothing

You cannot update to beta (or even RC) software with gibmacOS. When the official release comes out, rest assured, there will be a macOS 11.0.

 

[brkr1]

A made a partition and restored the OpenCore to it so I don't have to leave my pendrive connected all the time. The problem is that the partition I made doesn't show up on Startup Disk, so I have always to start up my machine holding alt/option..
I tried to (after choosing the opencore partition) to Ctrl+Enter my ssd but it didn't work.

How can I make that partition show up on Startup Disk section?

Anyone can help me with this?

 

[Ourkid]

After weeks of trying and days with the help of @jackluke going back and forth and most importantly patience my Macbook Pro 17” early 2008 is running Big Sur. Wifi and sound works. Will update more later. Super excited!

 

[retta283]

After weeks of trying and days with the help of @jackluke going back and forth and most importantly patience my Macbook Pro 17” early 2008 is running Big Sur. Wifi and sound works. Will update more later. Super excited!

Incredible that a machine using a chassis almost completely unchanged from 2003 is able to run the 2020 mac OS version. Obviously specs make the game but it's still very impressive. Imagine trying to run Windows 7 on a machine from 1997.

 

[Ourkid]

Incredible that a machine using a chassis almost completely unchanged from 2003 is able to run the 2020 mac OS version. Obviously specs make the game but it's still very impressive. Imagine trying to run Windows 7 on a machine from 1997.

yeah and the MacBook Pro 17” 2008 runs Windows 10 smoothly. That’s why I am hellbent on making big Sur work on this model. Still testing and will update on the issues if there’s any.

 

[0423MAC]

Wow, MacBook from 2008 installing Big Sur is a huge accomplishment. Some first gen MacBooks still have a bit of life left when one considers that Linux/Windows still runs fine on them.

I am hoping to play with Big Sur this weekend on my Mid 2012 MBP! I think I am going to start completely fresh with a Catalina/Windows 10 configuration and then play from there.

 

[justperry]

Hello. How did you install Big Sur on Mac Mini 2012 and where can you download the system image?

Download and read the instructions on this page... Micropatcher

Don't forget to thank the creator, also on this site here.

 

[Ourkid]

Wow, MacBook from 2008 installing Big Sur is a huge accomplishment. Some first gen MacBooks still have a bit of life left when one considers that Linux/Windows still runs fine on them.

I am hoping to play with Big Sur this weekend on my Mid 2012 MBP! I think I am going to start completely fresh with a Catalina/Windows 10 configuration and then play from there.

thank you. The great devs here made it possible. The a1261 is my most favourite Macbook so I thought why not give it a try since it can run Catalina well and stretch it further. As I also own a a1261/a1229 MacBook Pro 17” 4,1 prototype which I hope one day I can send to @dosdude1 to work on the revised chip one day after the pandemic is over. I will update on the issues soon.

 

[Bmju]

Alright gents, getting ready on my end.

I currently have a Catalina/Windows 10 configuration and would like to keep the Windows 10 partition after upgrading to Big Sur. I’m assuming the only way I can attempt to do this would be to blow everything up and start from scratch?

it’s a mid 2012 15” MBP and have never attempted this before so looking for some tips from someone attempting something similar.

I've been playing around with installing Big Sur on a multi-boot Macbook.

If your Windows is set up as Bootcamp default then it is in the same APFS container partition as your OS, in which case, yes, I think you will need to restart from scratch.

If your Windows partition is not inside the macOS container partition - which unfortunately would only be if you have jumped through more hoops in the first place to set it up like that - then there is no reason (in principle...) why it won't keep working fine after you have overwritten the macOS partition with Big Sur.

Of course still backup everything valuable first.

Use Disk Utility with View/Show All Devices selected to see how your partitions are laid out.

 

[Luigi222]

So can somebody be so kind as to explain to me, besides Macs from 2012 e 2013 and above, and also Macs that the graphics cards can be physically updated, what older Macs run Big Sur with graphics acceleration???

Nvidia 9400, IntelHD 3000 ??? Any graphics acceleration here?

Thanks in advance.

 

[laertemeira]

Alright, guys. Here's the scoop. I've been working a lot on patching metal lately, as BenSova created a GUI patcher that works quite well, and I've realized something. There seem to be some modifications that forcefully reboot the Big Sur install USB into a generic Big Sur internet recovery now (so I guess apple made a Big Sur internet recovery). This might be a big problem, as it seems that most of my modifications trigger a reboot into internet recovery, including patching applications to the USB. I don't know how you got it done, jackluke, but nothing is working for me. I also once had this weird thing where two apple logos showed up next to each other with two loading bars. Didn't happen again. If it happens, I'll make sure to take a video. For now, Big Sur is getting more and more frustrating to patch, as Apple is closing our boundary of patching slowly, but rest assured, we WILL patch metal on pre-2012 Macs. It WILL happen. You can count on us.

MacHacJac, I have a late 2011 MBP8,3, with HD3000. If it's possible to test with Big Sur on an external drive (since it's my working machine, I can't replace Catalina yet) feel free to send me any patcher you need to test, if you need, of course.

 

[laertemeira]

So can somebody be so kind as to explain to me, besides Macs from 2012 e 2013 and above, and also Macs that the graphics cards can be physically updated, what older Macs run Big Sur with graphics acceleration???

Nvidia 9400, IntelHD 3000 ??? Any graphics acceleration here?

Thanks in advance.

IDK about Nvidia but Intel HD3000 does not have acceleration in Big Sur (yet).

 

[k.alexander]

Mac mini late 2012 here. Was waiting for the GM to come out before delving into this. A few questions:

1. Is installing, upgrading, over Catalina discouraged?
2. If instead I create a separate Partition and install Big Sur there, it would just be a new, empty OS install, correct?
2a. I would then need to restore from a Catalina TimeMachine backup to get all my apps, settings, etc. back?
2b. Is a restore from a Catalina TM backup into Big Sur supported?

 

[Ausdauersportler]

Mac mini late 2012 here. Was waiting for the GM to come out before delving into this. A few questions:

1. Is installing, upgrading, over Catalina discouraged?
2. If instead I create a separate Partition and install Big Sur there, it would just be a new, empty OS install, correct?
2a. I would then need to restore from a Catalina TimeMachine backup to get all my apps, settings, etc. back?
2b. Is a restore from a Catalina TM backup into Big Sur supported?

There will be no support for any kind of installation method here. You are entering the world of unsupported machines.

Therefore I would recommend to use the most defensive method to go forward, i.e. create a new partition, do a fresh install, restore from backup before you simply overwrite your single and only working platform. Is this common sense?

Again, no support any more!

 

[eikic1]

After weeks of trying and days with the help of @jackluke going back and forth and most importantly patience my Macbook Pro 17” early 2008 is running Big Sur. Wifi and sound works. Will update more later. Super excited!

wow, how bro???

 

[okpych]

After weeks of trying and days with the help of @jackluke going back and forth and most importantly patience my Macbook Pro 17” early 2008 is running Big Sur. Wifi and sound works. Will update more later. Super excited!

That is super impressive. Always loved the design of the older MBPs.. I have one myself but it has a Merom CPU, so anything past El Capitan is out of question, sadly. Anyway--it's awesome that you guys got it running! How's the performance? (I'm assuming there is no GPU acceleration)

 

[viettanium]

Mac mini late 2012 here. Was waiting for the GM to come out before delving into this. A few questions:

1. Is installing, upgrading, over Catalina discouraged?
2. If instead I create a separate Partition and install Big Sur there, it would just be a new, empty OS install, correct?
2a. I would then need to restore from a Catalina TimeMachine backup to get all my apps, settings, etc. back?
2b. Is a restore from a Catalina TM backup into Big Sur supported?

mac mini 2012 here. upgrading from 10.15.7 work like a charm. followed the micropatcher guide.

 

[MrWeenus]

Can anyone with a 2012 Mac and integrated graphics confirm that their screensaver (or any other 3D intensive task) does not stutter?

Please do the following:
1. Select Drift as your screensaver
2. Preview it.

Notice if there are any stutters or if the motion is smooth.

MacBook Pro Retina 2012 15" stutters like hell in both games and 3D applications.

 

[throwinrocks]

Anything for the Late 2013 iMac? I'm new to all of this so excuse me if I don't use the correct terminology.

Thanks

 

[jamezh2020]

Can anyone with a 2012 Mac and integrated graphics confirm that their screensaver (or any other 3D intensive task) does not stutter?

Please do the following:
1. Select Drift as your screensaver
2. Preview it.

Notice if there are any stutters or if the motion is smooth.

MacBook Pro Retina 2012 15" stutters like hell in both games and 3D applications.

Just tested it. Drift stutters a lot but then again this is what the majority of the screensavers do on my machine since Catalina. I do have a 13" MBP Mid 2012.
Edit: Minecraft seems to run fine though...

 

[mt247]

Can anyone with a 2012 Late MBP 13" Retina can provide an info about the Big Sur performance of it?
MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2012)
It is worth the effort to upgrade or should i stay on Catalina?

 

[CuriousExplorer]

This thread will be used to discuss advancements in getting macOS 11.0 Big Sur running on unsupported Macs.

---
Compatibility List:

Macs officially compatible with macOS Big Sur:

• 2015 and later MacBook
  • MacBook8,1
  • MacBook9,1
  • MacBook10,1
• 2013 and later MacBook Air
  • MacBookAir6,x
  • MacBookAir7,x
  • MacBookAir8,x
  • MacBookAir9,1
• Late 2013 and later MacBook Pro
  • MacBookPro11,x
  • MacBookPro12,1
  • MacBookPro13,x
  • MacBookPro14,x
  • MacBookPro15,x
  • MacBookPro16,x
• 2014 and later iMac
  • iMac14,4
  • iMac15,1
  • iMac16,x
  • iMac17,1
  • iMac18,x
  • iMac19,x
• 2017 and later iMac Pro
  • iMacPro1,1
• 2014 and later Mac mini
  • Macmini7,1
  • Macmini8,1
• 2013 and later Mac Pro
  • MacPro6,1
  • MacPro7,1

Macs officially compatible with macOS Catalina but have been dropped from official support in macOS Big Sur:
- These Macs so far are capable of running Big Sur properly, but WiFi is not yet fully stable (except on iMac14,x, i.e. Late 2013 iMacs), and (at least on iMac14,x) Fusion Drive performance is significantly slower than on previous macOS releases. See FAQ for more information.

• 2012 and Early 2013 MacBook Pro
  • MacBookPro9,x
  • MacBookPro10,x
• 2012 MacBook Air
  • MacBookAir5,x
• 2012 and 2013 iMac
  • iMac13,x
  • iMac14,x
• 2012 Mac mini
  • Macmini6,x

Macs capable of being patched to run macOS Catalina properly and potentially can be patched to run macOS Big Sur:
- These Macs so far can boot Big Sur, but do not currently feature graphical acceleration support and, as with most 2012-2013 Macs, WiFi is not fully stable yet. See FAQ for more information.

• Early-2008 or newer Mac Pro, iMac, or MacBook Pro:
  • MacPro3,1*
  • MacPro4,1*
  • MacPro5,1*
  • iMac8,1
  • iMac9,1
  • iMac10,x
  • iMac11,x (systems with AMD Radeon HD 5xxx and 6xxx series GPUs were almost unusable when running Catalina and will be under Big Sur as well.) *
  • iMac12,x (systems with AMD Radeon HD 5xxx and 6xxx series GPUs were almost unusable when running Catalina and will be under Big Sur as well.) *
  • MacBookPro4,1
  • MacBookPro5,x
  • MacBookPro6,x
  • MacBookPro7,x
  • MacBookPro8,x
• Late-2008 or newer MacBook Air or Aluminum Unibody MacBook:
  • MacBookAir2,1
  • MacBookAir3,x
  • MacBookAir4,x
  • MacBook5,1
• Early-2009 or newer Mac Mini or white MacBook:
  • Macmini3,1
  • Macmini4,1
  • Macmini5,x (systems with AMD Radeon HD 6xxx series GPUs were almost unusable when running Catalina and will be under Big Sur as well.)
  • MacBook5,2
  • MacBook6,1
  • MacBook7,1
• Early-2008 or newer Xserve:
  • Xserve2,1*
  • Xserve3,1*

*Not officially supported in macOS Catalina, but are fully capable of running both Catalina and Big Sur with a Metal-compatible GPU and upgraded WiFi/BT card.

Macs that WILL NOT BE SUPPORTED in any capacity:

• 2006-2007 Mac Pros, iMacs, MacBook Pros, and Mac Minis:
  • MacPro1,1
  • MacPro2,1
  • iMac4,1
  • iMac5,x
  • iMac6,1
  • iMac7,1
  • MacBookPro1,1
  • MacBookPro2,1
  • MacBookPro3,1
  • Macmini1,1
  • Macmini2,1
• — The 2007 iMac 7,1 is compatible with Catalina and potentially Big Sur if the CPU is upgraded to a Penryn-based Core 2 Duo, such as a T9300.
  
  
• 2006-2008 MacBooks:
  • MacBook1,1
  • MacBook2,1
  • MacBook3,1
  • MacBook4,1 (as with Mojave and Catalina, we'll be on our own here, but Big Sur will be running on this machine!)
• 2008 MacBook Air (MacBookAir 1,1)
• All PowerPC-based Macs
• All 68k-based Macs

---

FAQ:

Q: Why did Apple drop support for my perfectly capable Mac?
A: Only Apple can give a definite answer to this. However there is evidence that it is based upon the CPUs being used in the now-unsupported Macs, which was the case last year with the Mac Pro 4,1/5,1. Intel decided to stop releasing firmware security fixes for Ivy Bridge and previous-generation CPUs. While they are technically compatible and supported in Big Sur, Apple has decided it is not worth the risk to continue supporting CPUs that have permanently unpatched security holes, putting users at risk. Also, terrible Fusion Drive performance under Big Sur on Late 2013 iMacs may be the reason Apple dropped support for that model.

While this is also not confirmed, another possibility could be that some of the excluded Macs feature WiFi chips that are no longer deemed fit for the next major release. This decision could be based on the previously mentioned security issues as well. The presence of graphics drivers for some of these newly unsupported Macs in Big Sur Beta 1 suggests this.

Q: Will my unsupported Mac get macOS 11.0 Big Sur?
A: If your Mac had official support in macOS Catalina, they will likely be able to be patched to run Big Sur with minimal issues. As of writing, only WiFi appears to be unstable, and even then, not for all users.
If your Mac was unsupported before the release of macOS Catalina, support remains to be seen as graphics acceleration may not be feasible at this time. (OpenGL is deprecated but actually still supported for now in Big Sur, as mentioned in Apple's own developer documentation. However, there are other reasons why providing non-Metal graphics acceleration on Big Sur is proving to be very difficult.)

Q: I see that my (2011 or earlier) unsupported Mac does not have "graphics acceleration" under Big Sur. How much performance loss does this cause?
A: For example, minimizing a Safari window takes well under a second on a 2012 MacBook Pro with accelerated graphics, versus 14 seconds on an Early 2011 13" MacBook Pro (2.3GHz Intel Core i5) or 25 seconds on a Late 2009 MacBook (2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo). During these multi-second delays, the entire user interface can freeze up. So when one app causes a graphics processing delay, it can occupy the entire computer and prevent switching to another app. Video playback is still generally fluid on 2011 Macs with 2nd generation Intel Core processors, but videos are almost slide shows if you have a Core 2 Duo. Overall, a small number of users of these Macs may have a serious need for Big Sur and may be able to endure the slowdowns, but most users will find unaccelerated graphics performance to be simply unacceptable.

Q: When will my unsupported Mac receive macOS 11.0 Big Sur? / ETA when?
A: This is a community driven effort to try and restore support for various unsupported Macs. Community members are working as hard as they can, often in their spare time, to try and add back stable support for these Macs. Based upon changes in macOS Big Sur, it may be possible some Macs that were previously patchable in Mojave, Catalina, and other previous releases of macOS may not be patchable under Big Sur. Please do not harass the patch developers to go faster, release the patcher, etc. Please do not clog up the thread with useless posts asking if your specific Mac will be patchable. Big Sur is still in beta and is still subject to change before the final release. Rest assured, the dedicated community of developers working on these patches are doing everything that they can to re-add support for as many Macs as possible.

Q: Where/how can I download macOS 11.0 Big Sur?
A: For legal purposes, the only official way to obtain a copy of macOS Big Sur at this time is to register with the Apple Developer program ($99/year) or, for the public beta, the Apple Beta Software Program (free). Please remember it is highly suggested that you do not install beta software on your main devices, overwriting any stable releases. Beta software can cause irreparable hardware damage or irrecoverable data loss and should be used at one's own risk.

Q: Where/how can I download a patcher tool?
A: Currently the first option to install Big Sur (Beta) on selected machines is the @Barry K. Nathan micro patcher tool. By the way, if you have a Mac Pro, Big Mac by StarPlayrX is another patcher worth considering. For 2008 Mac Pros (MacPro3,1) in particular, Big Mac is clearly a better option than this patcher (at least for now). The last but not least option is the @jackluke USBOpenCoreAPFSloader. This patcher allows booting of the Big Sur (Beta) installer on a wider range of older systems without graphics acceleration. Please remember it is highly suggested that you have a backup in place before installing new system software on your main devices, overwriting any stable releases. Unsupported software can cause irreparable hardware damage or irrecoverable data loss and should be used at one's own risk.

Apple and all patch developers are not responsible for any potential damage or data loss caused by using pre-release software or unofficial support patches. Please use at your own risk.

Am new here, not very technically-minded. My Mac Pro, mid-2010 with Metal GPU runs Mojave. Is there any way I can get Big Sur on to it?

 

[h9826790]

Am new here, not very technically-minded. My Mac Pro, mid-2010 with Metal GPU runs Mojave. Is there any way I can get Big Sur on to it?

Just install OpenCore, then your cMP will able to install / update / run Big Sur like any natively supported Mac.

Activate AMD hardware acceleration

I created a new "easy to install package" as per many requested (based on the official OpenCore). [The attached package updated to 1.0.0] For those who only need HWAccel, post #594 has everything you need. This new package mainly offer HWAccel + boot screen. Also, this package should work in...

forums.macrumors.com

Of course, this assume Apple won't change the logic in the coming release.