Masimo CEO: Apple Watch Blood Oxygen Sensor is Not Reliable, Customers Are 'Better Off Without It'

[LeeW]

Odd thing to say when you're accusing them of using YOUR tech...but ok.

So which is it, Masimo? Because by starting this fight by saying it's YOUR technology and then also calling it unreliable, you're basically saying YOUR tech (which they stole, as you claim) is unreliable. Or if that's not what you're saying, that means it's NOT your tech, because if it was...it would be reliable.

Things that make you go "hmmm" 🤔. That statement might come back to bite you.

I'm not interested in honesty, which is correct, but the statement from Masimo is that Apple is using their tech the wrong way, which makes it unreliable. You and many others are intentionally changing the context.

I don't know who is right; neither does anyone here.

 

[boss.king]

What an odd turn of events. Apple stole their IP only to be told by IP owner that their technology is terrible. Apple will just create their own and probably already have done so.

Implementation matters. If a student writes a good essay and another student copies it badly, would you say that both students are stupid?

 

[Meatwad]

Wait I thought they stoled your tech. So this whole thing is a marking campaign to sell your watches.

Well, it turns out they used the Apple lawsuit to steal Apple's tech so they can kiss that watch goodbye...

 

[ACHD]

This guy is such a massive prick, and it's been clear from day one he saw dollar signs when Apple first reached out, then has been butthurt ever since when Apple decided they didn't need Masimo's tech to make their own sensor.

The sooner they lose their cases and he's driven out of the company, the better.

I mean the ITC and appeals courts have sides with masimo.

Face it. Apple stole tech

 

[Meatwad]

So what does that mean exactly? A "wellness feature"? Is that another way of saying "gimmick"? Apple might have ripped off Massimo's tech but still implemented it in a sub-standard way. Bottom line remains, Apple's products aren't FDA approved and, as you pointed out, are marketed as "wellness" devices, which is really quite meaningless. Massimo's products are FDA approved and have been used by the medical industry for decades. So, no, this guy is not wrong.

I have Masimo's MightSat. They sell two versions. The MightySat and the MightySatRX. The RX version is the one approved for medical use. The version I have is not. It's sold as a wellness device.

 

[Will Tisdale 🎗]

Despite the fact they appear to be undermining their own technology, they’re not wrong about the Apple implementation being questionable and unreliable.

I find that the Apple Watch readings are inaccurate and inconsistent when compared to a finger pulse oximeter.

 

[nicrestrepo]

doesn't get much dumber than suing a company for infringing on their design and patent and then going on to say their sensor is unreliable..... what does that make yours if they're truly using your stuff? lol! wow

 

[nicrestrepo]

Despite the fact they appear to be undermining their own technology, they’re not wrong about the Apple implementation being questionable and unreliable.

I find that the Apple Watch readings are inaccurate and inconsistent when compared to a finger pulse oximeter.

thats why apple never said it was a medial device but a "wellness" tool. they admit to it being what it is. in in all, in all the tests with similar priced consumer devices, apple is on par w all of them, and their all not medical devices.

 

[dgdosen]

I don't get the grief to Masimo. They're just giving it back to Apple. Its not hard to see that Apple could have both infringed on patents and came up with a suboptimal design (to fit in a watch).

More bad publicity for Apple..

 

[dannys1]

I’m not a fan of poaching people and stealing patents that said IP and patent length should be reviewed. No reason for parents to exist past 10-15 years. Costs would go down for the consumer across all markets…. In terms of the quality of Apples algorithm and oxygen sensor I’m going to agree. I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea via a sleep study My O2 levels dropped below 60. My Apple Watch has always showed me at 93 or above this not showing any signs of an issue from that stat.

Below 60??

"A blood oxygen level below 65% or 55% can lead to cognitive impairment, loss of consciousness, and death."

An oxygen level of 96 to 100% is regarded as normal.

A value of 95%, is considered acceptable

A value of 93 to 94% is borderline and not regarded as normal, there may be need to seek a doctor’s advice if the oxygen level remains at this level

Any oxygen level less than 93% is bad and should seek immediate evaluation by the doctor.

I'm pretty sure you weren't dropping to 60%, people pass out at 88%.

 

[nicrestrepo]

I don't get the grief to Masimo. They're just giving it back to Apple. Its not hard to see that Apple could have both infringed on patents and came up with a suboptimal design (to fit in a watch).

More bad publicity for Apple..

judging from this comment thread... its bad publicity for Massimo. Its widely accepted ( wether we like it or not) that apple tends to do a good job on their hardware. the main reason they tend to be the last to join on new tech.

 

[mrmister]

Despite the fact they appear to be undermining their own technology, they’re not wrong about the Apple implementation being questionable and unreliable.

I find that the Apple Watch readings are inaccurate and inconsistent when compared to a finger pulse oximeter.

yes, this has been my experience as well.

 

[Wizpod96]

Below 60??

"A blood oxygen level below 65% or 55% can lead to cognitive impairment, loss of consciousness, and death."

An oxygen level of 96 to 100% is regarded as normal.

A value of 95%, is considered acceptable

A value of 93 to 94% is borderline and not regarded as normal, there may be need to seek a doctor’s advice if the oxygen level remains at this level

Any oxygen level less than 93% is bad and should seek immediate evaluation by the doctor.

I'm pretty sure you weren't dropping to 60%, people pass out at 88%.

Well it dipped that low while I was sleeping so I was passed out. I’m well aware the sensor doesn’t monitor that while sleeping nor is it continuous and am aware of those figures you presented. I figured the watch would give a slight warning in the day to day measurements but in reality the feature is a gimmick at best with the current tech and algorithm. With the diverse skin types and perspiration etc. it’s understandable it’s not 100% accurate. Anyone who has bought the watch for this feature is better off spending money elsewhere.

 

[Rafagon]

I love that yellow band. I bet it's $100 if I get it from Apple, right?

 

[spazzcat]

I don't get the grief to Masimo. They're just giving it back to Apple. Its not hard to see that Apple could have both infringed on patents and came up with a suboptimal design (to fit in a watch).

More bad publicity for Apple..

More damages Apple can sue for ...

 

[hinrgmike]

I’m not a fan of poaching people and stealing patents that said IP and patent length should be reviewed. No reason for parents to exist past 10-15 years. Costs would go down for the consumer across all markets…. In terms of the quality of Apples algorithm and oxygen sensor I’m going to agree. I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea via a sleep study My O2 levels dropped below 60. My Apple Watch has always showed me at 93 or above this not showing any signs of an issue from that stat.

That's interesting. I just completed Sleep study for potential sleep apnea and somewhat reverse. Don't have sleep apnea and the medical grade monitoring tech constantly showed my overnight O2 in the 95 - 96 range vs. Apple Watch consistently averages 90 - 92 on any given night. Doctors were not surprised and said Apple Watch O2 is pretty lousy at properly monitoring in many people. So yeah, the Apple Watch O2 tech is not what it's cracked up to be.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

No one will buy Masimo's crappy watch. If it's using their tech why isn't it as good. Maybe an investigation should be started to target Masimo's apparent monopoly

 

[fyun89]

I assume that the hospital sensors and smartwatch sensors are based on different technologies. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

They use the same LED thing on your finger. I believe the principal tech is the same.
I actually just been to one hospital recently and had this to measure blood oxygen

 

[fyun89]

I’m not a fan of poaching people and stealing patents that said IP and patent length should be reviewed. No reason for parents to exist past 10-15 years. Costs would go down for the consumer across all markets…. In terms of the quality of Apples algorithm and oxygen sensor I’m going to agree. I was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea via a sleep study My O2 levels dropped below 60. My Apple Watch has always showed me at 93 or above this not showing any signs of an issue from that stat.

I disagree with patent protection being this short. The whole incentive is what drives people to come up with something new in the first place.

10 -15 year is very short for business world. It could take years just to create an assemblyline to start producing products, especially for small businesses and individual.

Also limitation is what allows people to find new ways and be creative.

Im not denying that our patent law is perfect. May be there could be a way to make these patent more accessible while giving advantages to the creator.

 

[CarAnalogy]

That is certainly an interesting statement for him to make.

However I do wonder how accurate it really is. Apple is careful to say all the health measurements are just a general idea and not medical grade. Has anyone used the app and then compared it with a proper medical grade oximeter? If it’s within 1% I wouldn’t say people are better off without it, but it needs to be accurate and consistent or it is indeed kind of pointless. With something like that if it is wildly inaccurate then people probably are better off with no information than bad information.

Still, as many people have said, if they’re using Masimo’s stolen tech then wtf, does it work or doesn’t it?

 

[CarAnalogy]

I disagree with patent protection being this short. The whole incentive is what drives people to come up with something new in the first place.

10 -15 year is very short for business world. It could take years just to create an assemblyline to start producing products, especially for small businesses and individual.

Also limitation is what allows people to find new ways and be creative.

Im not denying that our patent law is perfect. May be there could be a way to make these patent more accessible while giving advantages to the creator.

In theory, sure. In practice it has absolutely the opposite effect of its intent.

The patent system as it is makes it literally impossible for any individual to invent anything and take it to market without getting sued. There have been so many obvious patents granted in every single sector imaginable.

The strategy now is for companies to patent everything because the patent office apparently barely does any research. Then once your company has a war chest of patents, you just do whatever you want. It’s impossible to do anything at all complex without violating someone’s patent. They just keep enough patents to counter sue.

It’s a great example of how hideous and dysfunctional American systems are. They just keep going because it’s the power structure that uses them. It has nothing to do with protecting innovation anymore.

 

[B-Mc-C]

“They stole our technology that doesn’t even work!”

 

[seek3r]

Despite the fact they appear to be undermining their own technology, they’re not wrong about the Apple implementation being questionable and unreliable.

I find that the Apple Watch readings are inaccurate and inconsistent when compared to a finger pulse oximeter.

Interestingly I’ve tested my aw 6 against a number of finger pulseoxs and it’s been pretty accurate

I would guess to some extent your skin, hair, sweat, etc matters in the accuracy of the aw’s sensor and how well its algorithms compensate for read defects because of those factors

 

[webkit]

Wait, I thought you were bitching about Apple stealing your tech. Now you're saying that that same tech (which you claim to have created) sucks?

So you're saying that your tech sucks.

No. What they seem to be saying is that Masimo's tech (which Apple "stole") is good but Apple's application of it sucks.

 

[webkit]

Apple should just buy Masimo and immediately dissolve it

Masimo may be open to a buyout...for the right price. How much of a premium over the current stock price would Apple be willing to offer? 20%? 30%? More?