Excellent argument... However, we are not discussing in this thread whether I should buy it or not. We are discussing the reliability of gen-3 butterfly keyboard. Got it? Stay on topic.
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MBA 2018–NOOO! Keyboard failed...
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Excellent argument... However, we are not discussing in this thread whether I should buy it or not. We are discussing the reliability of gen-3 butterfly keyboard. Got it? Stay on topic.
This thread is over then. It's a new keyboard. It's been on the market for less that 6 months. We have no idea what the reliability is. The end.
There. On Topic.
Also, it's laughable that OP works for a non-profit and buys Macs.
And, considering it is NOT a new product bu rather the 3rd iteration of previous versions, AND reports of the SAME EXACT PROBLEMS as those previous versions are starting to pop up in forums and YouTube... Well, you can add the clues up.
A Google search indicates two things
1) The most common complaint with the current gen MBAs is this double character issue, which is likely unrelated to the issue seen in previous gen keyboards
2) There is not a high occurrence of this issue at all.
Again, the thread is over. This isn't the "complain about Apple's best in class quality control" thread. I'm just following the rules set up by you.
Yeah it adds up to stuff breaks, company fixes broken stuff, if it becomes a widespread problem Apple has the integrity to offer extended repair programs, unlike many other companies with known product issues. I don’t play engineer on the internet so I don’t know if this is a design or manufacturing problem, or both. The customer fix is ahh, Don’t Buy, sorry that triggered you on a public forum. Caps make it true on the internet? When did that become a rule
Caps make it true on the internet? When did that become a rule
No, caps dont make it true on the internet. However, thousands of real cases reported on forums and YouTube videos DO make it true. So much so that Apple had to release a world wide gen-1 and gen-2 keyboard free repair program.
And yes, it was the same problem as reported in this very thread for gen-3: stuck keys and double key strokes. How do I know? Because I was among them, and I was quoted $700+tax to fix one damn key (before the repair program was launched). Because, mind you, it took months for the free repair to be offered. All along, they merrily charged $700+tax a pop.
Oh, and you're right: stuff does break, and that is OK... for a first gen product. But then again on gen-2? And now it is being reported again on gen-3? At what point does it stop being OK?
Let me guess: you didnt have to pay $700+tax to get your already VERY expensive laptop (I had paid $2,800) to work as it should, did you? Perhaps, if you did, you would also be "triggered" in a public forum...
You know, the "dont buy Apple products" argument doesnt fly when you have already paid $2,800 and the bloody "E" key doesnt work half of the time.
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So tired of people deflecting from the issue and ranting about how “triggered” or “worked up” commenters are who point this out. How about focusing on the issue at hand? A TRILLION DOLLAR company can’t figure out how to solve a keyboard issue after THREE revisions of the product. The solution is maybe a recall program so you have the “pleasure” of being without your computer so they can swap the keyboard for another keyboard of the same defective generation just to likely have the same thing happen again in the future. The whole situation is a joke, as so many other things are with Apple lately. And, yes I used caps. Sorry, not sorry.
... and this is why I am still using my 2012 11inch MBA and 2015 13inch MBA. As much as I would like to have a MBA with retina display that requirement is not critical for my usage and I get by fine using the two MBAs I currently have.
What is unacceptable is that Apple is still going with the problematic butterfly style keyboard and from what I have been seeing (Gen1/Gen2/Gen3) there are still reliability issues. So far I have not had any issues with my present MBA keyboard or anything so as such I am content having laptops that I know work perfectly as designed... until Apple permanently fixes their problematic keyboard reliability issues I will continue using my MBA for the time being...
What is unacceptable is that Apple is still going with the problematic butterfly style keyboard and from what I have been seeing (Gen1/Gen2/Gen3) there are still reliability issues. So far I have not had any issues with my present MBA keyboard or anything so as such I am content having laptops that I know work perfectly as designed... until Apple permanently fixes their problematic keyboard reliability issues I will continue using my MBA for the time being...
Yo might want to direct the last paragraph to the feedback part of the Apple site,
It seems like keyboard failure is an almost expected outcome if you’re not coddling your computer. Heaven forbid you eat near it and get a couple of crumbs on it. I have a 10 year old Macbook in daily use and it’s not coddled. Keyboard failure is, and should be, my last concern.
I suppose in a real sense, it IS acceptable. Everyone has been forewarned... It is a high probability that Macbooks equipped with butterfly keyboards are going to have problems with the keyboard. In spite of knowing that, people still buy those Macbooks.
At some point the blame shifts from Apple to the customer... caveat emptor.
I had two 2011 15.4" MBP (mine and my wife's) die due to the GPU problem. Apple refused to fix them under their repair program because they couldn't run their diagnostic tool on them. Lesson learned. No more Macbook Pros. I bought a 2015 13" MBA for my wife (she needed a little "transition time" before moving off of macOS). But I'm done with Apple's notebooks.
If people want Apple to change they need to speak in a way that Apple understands... no, not an email to Tim Cook, but spending money on their competitor's products. (I know there will be those who claim they're "prisoners" to macOS)
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I have to agree.... unfortunately unless Apple starts to listen to their customer base and seriously improve on their quality control, I too may be looking elsewhere when the time comes to replace what I am currently using..... sad....
Money talks....
This seems to be the best way to get the message across. They're on the third generation of their new keyboard in 4 years (I think they came out in 2015?) and they're still just as crappy. I took my 2015 Macbook in for service because almost every key on the left side wouldn't work. They replaced the entire topcase and even replaced the speaker and logic board for free since there was issues they identified (I think they just probably broke/damaged them in the repair). But guess what? They still replaced the keyboard with the same exact Gen 1 keyboard, not even the third gen with the silicon membrane to help catch tiny little crumbs that would render the keyboard useless again. I've since gotten me a silicone keyboard cover to try to help alleviate the problems down the line. It doesn't feel great, but honestly, this keyboard didn't feel great to begin with. This is the second Macbook I've had an issue with.
My very fist Macbook was a 2011 15" Macbook pro. It was the very first laptop I bought for myself. For years it worked GREAT and I loved it. Then in 2016 it began shutting down every other week and I always submitted the error report but I didn't understand that huge mass of code. It was rare and I thought I was just pushing the computer too much. Then it happened every week. Then it grew to every few days. Then finally multiple times a day to where it was unusable and I finally looked into the problem. The shutdowns kept happening due to the GPU Kernel panic, there was a repair program but it had already ended on my model. I was told I would need to get the logic board repaired which I was quoted over $500 + tax. I fought with Apple for months and finally was able to get a repair voucher. Got it fixed then sold it.
Used that money to get myself a nice lil Macbook with a nice new keyboard. LOL.
I love the Macbook and Mac OS and the build quality looks great, but I don't think I'd spend thousands of dollars on another one considering the problems I've had with mine and how reluctant Apple is to fix their mistakes.
Guys, I'm done with this ****. My E key makes me unhappy when I type text on my new MBA. I get my text messed up all the time, it adds to the anxiety and frustration of having misspells in my text. This is UNACCEPTABLE. Apple makes me feel like they went back in time 20 years and the technology started to become worse and worse. I am fed up with their lies, false advertising, bragging about everything while delivering nothing better or new in reality. I was an Apple fan for years, awaiting what are their next steps. This year something changed. I don't believe anything good will come from Apple anymore. I'm just thinking what lies and flaws they are going to introduce now. I want Tim Cook to go and Apple's policy go back to Jobs times. This is beyond ridiculous these days. Expensive piece of ****.
I can totally relate which is why I have refrained from buying any of Apple's new laptop lineups (MacBook / MacBook Pro / MacBook Air) and stayed with my 2012 15inch MBPr/11inch MBA and 2015 13inch MBA. Even though the laptops I'm currently using are considered old and my 2012 laptops are no longer supported by Apple, they are still much more reliable than Apple's current offering. Sad....
I used to be one of those who had to be the first ones to get Apple's new offerings but I have noticed that post Steve Jobs era, Apple's products have suffered more quality control issues under Tim Cook's leadership. The 3rd Gen Butterfly keyboard issues we're starting to see on the new MBAs is a good example of Apple's continuing quality control issues (see Gen1 and Gen2 Butterfly keyboard issues). You're not supposed to use a bluetooth keyboard with your laptop to workaround your laptop's keyboard issues.... not an acceptable solution Apple!!!
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I went through no less than 3 MBP with the keyboard issues and have a pretty good handle on where things stand now. I have friends at the Genius Bar here in LA, NY and WA. I have a good handle of how severe the issue continues to be.
I also know that the board of Ed in NY continues to have keyboard issues with the newest machines (just learned this last night). Edit suites here in Hollywood dumped out of these systems because of the keyboard issues, including ours.
People tend to defend what they buy, or what they want to buy, so there will always be kickback when problems are brought up.
I have 100% confidence that the keyboard issues are not properly resolved. The keyboards have also absolutely improved. Upgrading my laptops and desktops has zero financial impact on me, so my only criteria is that these machines work and keep working.
Bottom line: I'm not buying new Apple Laptops for the foreseeable future. My Apple desktops are great and nearly new and my MBA units are going strong. So I'll be smart and wait as long as it's reasonable to do so. It's a sad state of affairs as I was looking forward to picking up a pair of new MBA units, but that's not happening now.
RB
What does it mean that it’s not a financial impact for you? You get them for free or are you a billionaire?
I don't get them for free and I'm not exactly a billionaire.
But let's just say that I can spend (within the limits of some common sense) whatever I want and whenever I want on computer gear. Thus, the cost of a laptop does not factor in on my purchase process. I choose what works for me, from my Nikon lenses to my Hellcat or AMG Mercedes. That said, I'm certainly NOT driving a Bugatti.
More than anything else, I value TIME. If something as trivial as a bad keyboard wastes my time, then it's a serious issue for me. I know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the latest Apple keyboards remain prone to issues. I REALLY want them to correct this issue and can't quite believe that it has yet to be dealt with fully. I wonder what Steve Jobs would have done.
RB
You are very young, aren’t you? Just got you first well paid job and it makes you think you can spend on whatever you want, huh?
If you can’t afford Bugatti, then you certainly can’t update your macbooks „whenever you want”.
If you can’t afford Bugatti, then you certainly can’t update your macbooks „whenever you want”.
I didn't say I couldn't afford one; I just said I'm not driving one. I'm 56 and self employed in Hollywood.
I'm not buying any of the new Apple laptops because I know the butterfly keyboards are seriously flawed. The amount of users that I know, along with contacts directly with Apple, leave me with no doubt. I hope Apple fixes it before my current gear ages-out.
RB
My son graduates from high school in the Spring and will go away to college in the Fall. We will need to replace his 7 year old MBA, which has been terrific. So, I went to our local Apple store yesterday to get some information about the reliability of the new MBA keyboard. It's a large store in a popular mall, so they get a fair amount of volume and deal with a lot of repair issues.
I spoke with an employee that seemed reasonably knowledgable, and she listened very carefully to my questions and concerns. She asked if I could wait around for a few minutes so she could talk to some of the techs in the backroom about possible keyboard issues on the 2018 MBA. When she returned, she told me that there where two techs available and they both told her they had never seen a keyboard failure with the 2018 MBA. They had dealt with issues on the older MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
Of course, this is all very anecdotal......but, this entire thread and most of the posts on MacRumors are anecdotal. Also, I found the employee to be very credible, and I think she really did make an effort to talk to some techs about my concern. In other words, I don't think she went to the back room, sat around for 5 minutes, didn't talk to anyone, and then came back and just lied to my face.
I just thought I would add another reference point.
I spoke with an employee that seemed reasonably knowledgable, and she listened very carefully to my questions and concerns. She asked if I could wait around for a few minutes so she could talk to some of the techs in the backroom about possible keyboard issues on the 2018 MBA. When she returned, she told me that there where two techs available and they both told her they had never seen a keyboard failure with the 2018 MBA. They had dealt with issues on the older MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
Of course, this is all very anecdotal......but, this entire thread and most of the posts on MacRumors are anecdotal. Also, I found the employee to be very credible, and I think she really did make an effort to talk to some techs about my concern. In other words, I don't think she went to the back room, sat around for 5 minutes, didn't talk to anyone, and then came back and just lied to my face.
I just thought I would add another reference point.
I was told the EXACT same thing when I had the initial troubles with my MBP 13 and 15" models. They had never HEARD of the issue!
Does that really sound believable at this point?
The folks at the Genius Bar here in LA were VERY credible and even brought out a tech to talk to me about it. They'd "heard of a few complaints" but nothing out of the norm for a mass produced machine.
At that point, my manager (who previously been with Apple) put me in touch with folks working at Apple in NY and learned that the keyboard problems were every bit as common as these threads would lead us to believe. I got into a big fight with Apple and they took back the laptops (outside of the return window) and gave me credit to buy desktops and MBA along with over 600.00 in gift card cash. I posted the specifics some time back.
Later on, at the very same store, a tech fessed up about how bad the problem was and even admitted that he'd exchanged his OWN machine for an older refurb.
As Apple worked with me and the store, I also spoke with two different people who confirmed the issue, but the worst comment came from a tech I became friendly with, who said "Apple needs to stop chasing this design." Another tech said (this is NOT confirmed) that Apple's testing procedures on the new keyboards were poor compared to what had been done previously. Her opinion was that a cost analysis result has left Apple "stuck" with a design that is inferior.
Of COURSE the folks at the store aren't going to admit to an issue. It's their job to be credible and assuring so they can sell gear.
RB
RB is correct. It is not in Apple's interest for their employees to admit to customers that there is a problem with their new Gen3 butterfly keyboards. Why would they tell their customers that there is a problem when that will only adversely affect sales for their new laptop line?
I hear you, and I am really not trying to defend Apple......just trying to get different perspectives to best understand how pervasive of a problem exists with the new MBA keyboard.
As additional context, I am trying to decide between buying the 2018 MBA or the older model 2017 MBA for my son to take to college. I mentioned this to the store employee and told her that reliability is a big deal for a college student. We have had great luck with numerous older MBAs in the family (including the one I am currently using to type this post). So, she knew we would be eventually buying an MBA either way......I just wanted the unvarnished feedback on these new keyboards, since failure when term paper deadlines approach could be bad news.
At this point, I don't think it is worth the risk to buy the 2018 model. I think he would be happy with the 2017 MBA, and it should last him 4 years in college. Price difference is not an issue. I am spending over $100K on tuition (and that includes a sizable merit scholarship!), so $200 retail price difference is lost in the noise. Reliability is the most important thing.
An Apple employee will never answer the question by saying they have seen a lot of problems with x. They always retort with 'I haven't heard or seen anything about x.'