MBA 2018–NOOO! Keyboard failed...

[bearinthetown]

They also claim they didn’t know how bad the cameras are. Yeah, right.

 

[CaptRB]

I'm not "mad" at Apple. I own a LOT of their gear and it serves me well. But I am saddened by their inability to deal with such a key factor (pun intended).

My previous gen. MacBook airs are bulletproof. But...Without exception, virtually everyone I know who bought the new machines has had some sort of problem with the keyboard. Including the three I had. It was beyond annoying because I REALLY loved those laptops and quickly got used to the new keyboard feel.

I made fun of people who reported problems with the keyboard again and again. Then it happened to me and people I know or work with. Statistically I started to understand that it had to be more common than I first imagined. Then I got confirmation on exactly that from some contacts at Apple.

So I REALLY want to swap my MBA units for new ones and maybe add a 15" MBP, but there's no way I can do it knowing what I know.

C'mon Apple! Pull it together.


RB

 

[AustinIllini]

My son graduates from high school in the Spring and will go away to college in the Fall. We will need to replace his 7 year old MBA, which has been terrific. So, I went to our local Apple store yesterday to get some information about the reliability of the new MBA keyboard. It's a large store in a popular mall, so they get a fair amount of volume and deal with a lot of repair issues.

I spoke with an employee that seemed reasonably knowledgable, and she listened very carefully to my questions and concerns. She asked if I could wait around for a few minutes so she could talk to some of the techs in the backroom about possible keyboard issues on the 2018 MBA. When she returned, she told me that there where two techs available and they both told her they had never seen a keyboard failure with the 2018 MBA. They had dealt with issues on the older MacBooks and MacBook Pros.

Of course, this is all very anecdotal......but, this entire thread and most of the posts on MacRumors are anecdotal. Also, I found the employee to be very credible, and I think she really did make an effort to talk to some techs about my concern. In other words, I don't think she went to the back room, sat around for 5 minutes, didn't talk to anyone, and then came back and just lied to my face.

I just thought I would add another reference point.

I was told the EXACT same thing when I had the initial troubles with my MBP 13 and 15" models. They had never HEARD of the issue!
Does that really sound believable at this point?

The folks at the Genius Bar here in LA were VERY credible and even brought out a tech to talk to me about it. They'd "heard of a few complaints" but nothing out of the norm for a mass produced machine.

At that point, my manager (who previously been with Apple) put me in touch with folks working at Apple in NY and learned that the keyboard problems were every bit as common as these threads would lead us to believe. I got into a big fight with Apple and they took back the laptops (outside of the return window) and gave me credit to buy desktops and MBA along with over 600.00 in gift card cash. I posted the specifics some time back.

Later on, at the very same store, a tech fessed up about how bad the problem was and even admitted that he'd exchanged his OWN machine for an older refurb.

As Apple worked with me and the store, I also spoke with two different people who confirmed the issue, but the worst comment came from a tech I became friendly with, who said "Apple needs to stop chasing this design." Another tech said (this is NOT confirmed) that Apple's testing procedures on the new keyboards were poor compared to what had been done previously. Her opinion was that a cost analysis result has left Apple "stuck" with a design that is inferior.

Of COURSE the folks at the store aren't going to admit to an issue. It's their job to be credible and assuring so they can sell gear.


RB

Not trying to start anything, but you can't go to an Apple Store and ask them how many issues they have seen and expect a straight answer. For one thing, they're probably not allowed to tell you or it wouldn't be in their best interest to do so. For another, they can't comment on the root cause of these issues as they ship the devices out.

 

[MBAir2010]

Just today I went on into a microsoft store and asked if i can swap the ssd and install linux on a brand new dell xps13”. The sales person looked up everything online as far as if I can replace the drive, add memory and install linux in the laptop. How free and honest he was! felt like i was at an Apple store many years ago. My have times and companies changed big time!

 

[Mainsail]

Not trying to start anything, but you can't go to an Apple Store and ask them how many issues they have seen and expect a straight answer. For one thing, they're probably not allowed to tell you or it wouldn't be in their best interest to do so. For another, they can't comment on the root cause of these issues as they ship the devices out.

No offense taken. I get your point, and understood there was some risk when I asked the question. I do believe the individual I was dealing with was being honest......but, that is just a vibe I got based on my personal and professional experiences. I have know many BS artists in my time, and this young lady was not one of them in my view. She is just a college student trying to earn some money and do a good job. She also readily admitted to problems with keyboards on other models that were on sale in the store......MacBook and 2017 MBP. So, she felt comfortable telling me about those keyboard problems, which added to her credibility.

BTW - Your signature indicates that you have a MacBook Air 2018. How has it been working for you.

 

[AustinIllini]

No offense taken. I get your point, and understood there was some risk when I asked the question. I do believe the individual I was dealing with was being honest......but, that is just a vibe I got based on my personal and professional experiences. I have know many BS artists in my time, and this young lady was not one of them in my view. She is just a college student trying to earn some money and do a good job. She also readily admitted to problems with keyboards on the models that were on sale in the store......MacBook and 2017 MBP. So, she felt comfortable telling me about some keyboard problems, which added to her credibility.

BTW - Your signature indicates that you have a MacBook Air 2018. How has it been working for you.

It has been fine but it's still new. At the moment, I can't comment on keyboard issues because I have not witnessed them. However, it's worth mentioning some of these issues should take a while to crop up. iFixit did an investigation of the new keyboard and found that it is more effective to dust but some more coarse things like sand still break the keyboard.

I've decided to stop arguing for or against the keyboard because 9/10 times I'm arguing with someone who hasn't actually used the product.

 

[MBAir2010]

I've decided to stop arguing for or against the keyboard because 9/10 times I'm arguing with someone who hasn't actually used the product.

J S Bach said the same thing, have you dealt with a faulty apple product?

 

[AustinIllini]

J S Bach said the same thing, have you dealt with a faulty apple product?

Here and there. My iPhone 7 Plus was kind of a mess a couple of years ago. My wife's Macbook developed keyboard issues after about 3.5 years of ownership.

 

[CaptRB]

I believe the Apple employee was lying.

The reason is simple:

The keyboard issues are WIDELY know and discussed for a LONG time now. Unless that person started working that same day, it's hard to imagine that they hadn't heard it and been asked prior. Most Apple staff have heard that plenty of times and much more.

Going in the back to talk with a "tech" is a sales technique akin to the car salesman pretending to talk to the manager about your "price." They never do. They know the answer already, just like the well trained Apple salesperson knows the answer.



RB

 

[MBAir2010]

I believe the Apple employee was lying.

The reason is simple:

The keyboard issues are WIDELY know and discussed for a LONG time now. Unless that person started working that same day, it's hard to imagine that they hadn't heard it and been asked prior. Most Apple staff have heard that plenty of times and much more.

Going in the back to talk with a "tech" is a sales technique akin to the car salesman pretending to talk to the manager about your "price." They never do. They know the answer already, just like the well trained Apple salesperson knows the answer.



RB

Sales people in general are unknowledgeable nowadays, a razor n shave store clerk did not know safey blade holders tops easily screw off and had no idea what Wilkerson razors are. She was kinda cute tho, which is more an assett than knowing anything, corporate thinks.
then there are shmucks at shoe stores who recommend shopping online for products supposedly being sold in their store according to their website. Who in their right mind would buy items that meet a certain size requirement without trying them on?

 

[Mainsail]

I believe the Apple employee was lying.

The reason is simple:

The keyboard issues are WIDELY know and discussed for a LONG time now. Unless that person started working that same day, it's hard to imagine that they hadn't heard it and been asked prior. Most Apple staff have heard that plenty of times and much more.

Going in the back to talk with a "tech" is a sales technique akin to the car salesman pretending to talk to the manager about your "price." They never do. They know the answer already, just like the well trained Apple salesperson knows the answer.



RB

That's fine. But, you weren't there and I was. Without prompting, the employee mentioned keyboard issues with other Apple laptops; e.g. rMB and MBP, so she was credible to me.

 

[AustinIllini]

That's fine. But, you weren't there and I was. Without prompting, the employee mentioned keyboard issues with other Apple laptops; e.g. rMB and MBP, so she was credible to me.

That's really not good enough. They work for the company and have been fed answers to your questions

 

[CaptRB]

That's really not good enough. They work for the company and have been fed answers to your questions

Sadly this is 100% accurate. Many buyers have no concept of how the training works. My close friend was a Genius Bar rep for years and knows how this all works.

The store has a single purpose and if you don't think Apple has one of the most aggressive selling systems around, then you don't know Apple.

As soon as I heard the part where the "sales person went in the back to ask a tech" I knew it was nonsense. It's a classic element of sales.
It's the job of the sales person to give that honest vibe, but the real goal is to sell you that white box so they can keep their job and make the next Toyota payment.

On what planet would the sales person have come back and said, "You know what? There has been some issues with these keyboards."

That planet would be Mars. But they don't carry Apple there. If a tech told the sales person to say YES, there are some issues, they'd both get fired.


RB

 

[Macdctr]

Sadly this is 100% accurate. Many buyers have no concept of how the training works. My close friend was a Genius Bar rep for years and knows how this all works.

The store has a single purpose and if you don't think Apple has one of the most aggressive selling systems around, then you don't know Apple.

As soon as I heard the part where the "sales person went in the back to ask a tech" I knew it was nonsense. It's a classic element of sales.
It's the job of the sales person to give that honest vibe, but the real goal is to sell you that white box so they can keep their job and make the next Toyota payment.

On what planet would the sales person have come back and said, "You know what? There has been some issues with these keyboards."

That planet would be Mars. But they don't carry Apple there. If a tech told the sales person to say YES, there are some issues, they'd both get fired.


RB

... and this is why I have stayed away from the laptops with the butterfly type keyboards. You take your "new" laptop to the Apple store and all you're going to get is grief when they tell you that you will have to pay out more money to have them "fix" your butterfly keyboard, no thanks!

 

[AustinIllini]

... and this is why I have stayed away from the laptops with the butterfly type keyboards. You take your "new" laptop to the Apple store and all you're going to get is grief when they tell you that you will have to pay out more money to have them "fix" your butterfly keyboard, no thanks!

Regardless of the reliability, Apple has refunded or made free any repairs to these keyboards. It doesn't fix the lack of reliability, but I got zero grief when I brought my wife's 2015 MB to the Apple Store and the whole thing was comped because there was no water damage.

 

[CaptRB]

Regardless of the reliability, Apple has refunded or made free any repairs to these keyboards. It doesn't fix the lack of reliability, but I got zero grief when I brought my wife's 2015 MB to the Apple Store and the whole thing was comped because there was no water damage.

I'm not looking to spend 3K or more on laptops that will fail and be fixed for free.

My time is a LOT more valuable than the time I wasted sorting out bad keyboards. I won't make the same mistake twice.


RB

 

[Mainsail]

That's really not good enough. They work for the company and have been fed answers to your questions

So, if she was just feeding me a company line, why did she mention keyboard problems with other MacBooks without my prompting? I am to believe that this young store employee is part of an elaborate corporate head-fake to admit problems with some laptops but not others? I think some of you guys spend too much time dreaming up conspiracy theories.

Sometimes, things are just the way they seem to be. There are problems with the gen 3 butterfly keyboard, but it might not impact all laptops in exactly the same way. It is possible that some of the Apple tech have not encountered the problem with the new MBAs.......perhaps in time they will.....but that doesn't mean these people aren't being truthful.

 

[AustinIllini]

So, if she was just feeding me a company line, why did she mention keyboard problems with other MacBooks without my prompting? I am to believe that this young store employee is part of an elaborate corporate head-fake to admit problems with some laptops but not others? I think some of you guys spend too much time dreaming up conspiracy theories.

Sometimes, things are just the way they seem to be. There are problems with the gen 3 butterfly keyboard, but it might not impact all laptops in exactly the same way. It is possible that some of the Apple tech have not encountered the problem with the new MBAs.......perhaps in time they will.....but that doesn't mean these people aren't being truthful.

I work in customer support. There are things you can say and things you can't say. The Apple Store representative is likely allowed to mention and discard the keyboard issue but they're likely forbidden from admitting fault on behalf of the company. It's not conspiracy. It's business.

Apple wants their employees to be translucent but at the same time not admit fault on behalf of the company.

 

[AustinIllini]

I'm not looking to spend 3K or more on laptops that will fail and be fixed for free.

My time is a LOT more valuable than the time I wasted sorting out bad keyboards. I won't make the same mistake twice.


RB

3K for a MacBook Air? Okay then.

 

[macintoshmac]

I think all of the folks who bought Apple notebooks since 2016 pricing are clearly still Apple fans, otherwise they would not have bought at the new pricing. The least Apple should have done was given them the quality they trusted Apple to deliver for the prices.

The issue is two-fold, one that Apple products are failing in quality so badly, and two that we have to pay that egregious premium for that lack of quality and reliability.

 

[bearinthetown]

Do you guys imagine Apple in 2000-2010 having an issue with the keyboard? So many things Apple does is so pathetic these days. Broken keyboard is a serious issue, imagine making a booking and having your details typed wrong. Say hello to the booking correction fee. Or when you type the password and you don't see what you type. With these keyboards it's more than likely to have it typed wrong twice, the same way.

While I'm writing this post, I got 3 double E's. Thank you so much for this amazing device, Apple.

 

[EightyTwenty]

I could never buy new MacBooks because of this keyboard issue. It feels like a matter of if and not when, when it comes to failure of these keyboards. My anxiety would be through the roof waiting for a key to fail and then the stress of having to get it repaired. And then what? Get it repaired every year? Because you know it's going to happen again. I will never entertain buying a new MacBook until this is completely resolved with a new keyboard design. Quite sad.

Not to mention that the keyboards suck to type on, even if they didn’t fail so often.

 

[auxbuss]

Apple wants their employees to be translucent...

I think you mean transparent. ;-)
[doublepost=1551432289][/doublepost]

Not to mention that the keyboards suck to type on, even if they didn’t fail so often.

Not everyone dislikes the new keyboards.

 

[shaunp]

At some point, there’s no Mac laptops for us to turn to. They all have the same keyboards and if they all fail at some point, a lot of us might have to move over to windows for a good keyboard laptop. And that’s a damn shame

This is why I moved to a Thinkpad. Apple simply didn't have an 'upgrade' from my 2012 rMBP, which I considered a downgrade from the 2010 one anyway because of less ports and no matte screen option. I needed more RAM for VM's and what was delivered was a machine with even less usable ports and quite possibly the worst keyboard in computing history and still only 16GB RAM. It was thinner and prettier though. I would have possibly bought one if it were released with 32GB, but in hindsight I know I would have regretted it with all the keyboard issues.

I really like Mac OS, but Windows 10 running on a ThinkPad P51 has proved to be great. I can count on one hand the number of times it has crashed in the past 18 months.

 

[scubachap]

I think you mean transparent. ;-)

Actually, whenever I've complained about something in an Apple store - translucent is great description...

The employees mouth says one thing but the facial expression says quite a different thing...