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th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
851
517
I confess I have been using Apple laptops for 10 years now and had never heard about 'nits' before. Nuts!

Surely there must be a way to return the computer and simply get your money back if you have a track record of the complaints made within the return/trial period of 7 seven days? Dump it - and buy something else.

Tbh, even on the MBP I find the screen not too easy to read in bright environments, mostly down to the reflective glass. I have no idea how you are supposed to make it out when lying in the hammock on a beach. Makes for a great shaving mirror though.
 
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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
I confess I have been using Apple laptops for 10 years now and had never heard about 'nits' before. Nuts!

Surely there must be a way to return the computer and simply get your money back if you have a track record of the complaints made within the return/trial period of 7 seven days? Dump it - and buy something else.

Tbh, even on the MBP I find the screen not too easy to read in bright environments, mostly down to the reflective glass. I have no idea how you are supposed to make it out when lying in the hammock on a beach. Makes for a great shaving mirror though.

But the reseller doesn't accept it. Because the computer is "ok".
234 NITS in 2018...

And this is bigger than my case, this isn´t only about my case.

The problem is that apple doesn't tell me (after talking with 3 apple guys) the specs of the new macbook air 2018, they don´t tell me the "nits parameter". They told me "we don't have that info" or "we don´t know that info".

Every consumer has to right to know the specs.

If they publish the specs (the nits) of the ipad, macbook pro, imac...

Why not the MBA´s nits specs?

Because as you can see in some reviews, the reviews show 234 nits...

So its 234? 270? 300?

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
 
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th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
851
517
The answer will be: Apple isn't proud of that value in comparison to the competition for this product so they chose to underplay it. If the display is particularly dark then it is probably a choice made to conserve battery life.

Can't you simply state that the device is unfit for your purpose? Again, if you have a track record of mails to prove you complained early on it should not be a problem.
 
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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
The answer will be: Apple isn't proud of that value in comparison to the competition for this product so they chose to underplay it. If the display is particularly dark then it is probably a choice made to conserve battery life.

Can't you simply state that the device is unfit for your purpose? Again, if you have a track record of mails to prove you complained early on it should not be a problem.

I totally agree with you, and i thank you for your words and understanding.

I did everything you said, i said exactly what you say: "unfit for purpose".

Only 2 days after buying it, the reseller told me "if its out of the box, we can only accept it if there´s a problem, your computer is ok, its like that".

Apple told me "your hardware is ok", and when i asked about not giving the nits on their website they didn´t explain why the nits info was not there.

When i asked 3 diff apple guys about the nits, the parameter, they all told me "we don't know, we don´t have that information".

Now i´m stuck with a computer that gives around 250/275 nits (probably), paid 1.450K USD, and what should i do? Sell to another person and deceive them? Of course not.

This is a consumer problem: i always bought apple (imac, ipad, macbooks, iphones, apple tvs, you name it...), and this is a huge negative suprise.

And why don't they put on their website, in the products specs (not hided in the "compare tool"...), the MBA NITS when they do it with the macbook pro, ipad, imac....?

Why?
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
851
517
Well it seems you are a student - if your can get free legal counsel through your uni's student organisation then that's the route I'd chose next. A letter from a lawyer to the seller showing you are not just backing down and taking it might suffice and give you a quick resolution.

You'll obviously not convince Apple to put brighter displays into their machine.
 
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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Well it seems you are a student - if your can get free legal counsel through your uni's student organisation then that's the route I'd chose next. A letter from a lawyer to the seller showing you are not just backing down and taking it might suffice and give you a quick resolution.

You'll obviously not convince Apple to put brighter displays into their machine.


But they should give the "nits" info. This is not only about my situation.

If you check their website, they don´t have it here:

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/

Why?
 
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Cehape

macrumors member
Nov 10, 2014
34
22
Germany
So sometimes they do show the info and sometimes they don‘t (MacBook Air, MacBook, IPad). In the comparison mode, this info is always there.
Don‘t make such a big thing of it, please.
 
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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
So sometimes they do show the info and sometimes they don‘t (MacBook Air, MacBook, IPad). In the comparison mode, this info is always there.
Don‘t make such a big thing of it, please.

"Don't make such a big thing of" not showing the specs they show about the other computers just because if you saw it you wouldn't buy it!

Can you link me the "official info/specs" about the MBA 2018 nits?

And why are you always trying to underestimate my situation?

Are you the seller?

Fact: Apple does not provide the nits info about MBA 2018 in their specs webpage.

Facts are facts.
 

MacDawg

Moderator emeritus
Mar 20, 2004
19,823
4,504
"Between the Hedges"
Unfortunately you are trying to convince the wrong people that you have a problem
Even if you convinced 100% of the people on MacRumors this is an issue (good luck with that), you haven't resolved anything

You have to convince Apple or your Apple reseller to get a refund, which also isn't likely

So your choices are:
  • Live with it
  • Sell it
  • Bitch and moan about the injustice of it (which actually doesn't accomplish anything at this point)
While you may have a valid point (that's debatable) you will still get no satisfaction unless your sole purpose is just to argue about it and "win"
 

revmacian

macrumors 68000
Oct 20, 2018
1,745
1,468
USA
"Don't make such a big thing of" not showing the specs they show about the other computers just because if you saw it you wouldn't buy it!

Can you link me the "official info/specs" about the MBA 2018 nits?

And why are you always trying to underestimate my situation?

Are you the seller?

Fact: Apple does not provide the nits info about MBA 2018 in their specs webpage.

Facts are facts.
I have an honest question for you: How much more discussion about nits do you estimate is required to change the nits on your MacBook Air's screen?

Yes, Apple failed to post information about the nits. But, I feel that you should accept some of the blame here because I believe you could have done more research prior to purchase. This is the perfect chance to train yourself to do more in-depth study of a product before you spend money on it.

A mistake is only a mistake if we fail to learn from it.
 

Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Unfortunately you are trying to convince the wrong people that you have a problem
Even if you convinced 100% of the people on MacRumors this is an issue (good luck with that), you haven't resolved anything

You have to convince Apple or your Apple reseller to get a refund, which also isn't likely

So your choices are:
  • Live with it
  • Sell it
  • Bitch and moan about the injustice of it (which actually doesn't accomplish anything at this point)
While you may have a valid point (that's debatable) you will still get no satisfaction unless your sole purpose is just to argue about it and "win"


I have more choices than those you mentioned... but thanks for the advice, honestly.
There you have it (again) from their official website. And now I am out, this is getting ridiculous.

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,325
1,560
234 nits from appleinsider and laptopmag.

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

"While Apple rates the Air's panel as capable of producing 300 nits of brightness, our unit maxed out at 234 nits, which is close to the 247-nit Spectre 13 and less than the 317-nit premium-notebook average. We found brighter screens in the XPS 13 (372 nits at 1080p, 415 nits at 4K), the Surface Laptop 2 (321 nits) and the MateBook X Pro (458)."

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-2018

I meant PWM.

Also, you failed to mention where you live; pretty sure consumer laws should have you covered.
 

Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
I have an honest question for you: How much more discussion about nits do you estimate is required to change the nits on your MacBook Air's screen?

Yes, Apple failed to post information about the nits. But, I feel that you should accept some of the blame here because I believe you could have done more research prior to purchase. This is the perfect chance to train yourself to do more in-depth study of a product before you spend money on it.

A mistake is only a mistake if we fail to learn from it.


Honest question for you: what?

You said you do a lot of research and you don´t even know the nits!

You said you´ll by one anyway (good job!) and you only learned about the nits from me! You said "i don´t care about the numbers" in a prior comment...! Just wow!

And now you are telling "take the hit little boy"! Learn from the daddy!

I called apple 4 times and they don't know the nits or they do not tell me the nits.

Are you kidding me?

How can i know the nits if the apple guys (3 different guys) don´t tell me the official nits?

Imagine you are a person working for apple (are you?) and i want to know the specs.

Should i ask you or should i read it online? Its not even in the box!

Like i told you, 3 diff apple guys couldn´t tell me the nits info.

And their website is what we already know and you even admit that they failed to provide the info.

If they "failed to provide" (as you say) the info on their website and by phone, how come it is my fault?

Are you saying that i need to read info on non related apple websites to know the specs of apple products?

Why does apple shows the nits info about the other computers in their individual specs?

They just forgot to put the nits on the individual specs info (of the MBA 2018)...
 
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MacDawg

Moderator emeritus
Mar 20, 2004
19,823
4,504
"Between the Hedges"
To be honest, I have no idea the nits on my 2011 MBA or my 2013 MBP or my Thunderbolt Display
To me, it is just a number that is fairly meaningless to me
Even if the website, Apple employee or box gave me a nit number I wouldn't have any comparison for that
Sure I could say it is less than XXXX but that doesn't tell me what I want to know
I want to know if it looks OK
I can honestly say I have never checked the nits on any purchase I've ever made, before or after the purchase

I go by the eye test
If it looks OK to me, then I'm good
If it doesn't, then I would return it

I wouldn't buy from a place that wouldn't allow a reasonable return
And more than likely I would give it a test drive at an Apple Store before purchase anyway (I realize that isn't always an option)
 
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revmacian

macrumors 68000
Oct 20, 2018
1,745
1,468
USA
Honest question for you: what?

You said you do a lot of research and you don´t even know the nits!

You said you´ll by one anyway (good job!) and you only learned about the nits from me! You said "i don´t care about the numbers" in a prior comment...! Just wow!

And now you are telling "take the hit little boy"! Learn from the daddy!

I called apple 4 times and they don't know the nits or they do not tell me the nits.

Are you kidding me?

How can i know the nits if the apple guys (3 different guys) don´t tell me the official nits?

Imagine you are a person working for apple (are you?) and i want to know the specs.

Should i ask you or should i read it online? Its not even in the box!

Like i told you, 3 diff apple guys couldn´t tell me the nits info.

And their website is what we already know and you even admit that they failed to provide the info.

If they failed to proved the info, how come it is my fault?
My 'honest question' was designed to get you to see that all of this complaining that you're doing isn't going to change anything and is, therefore, a waste of time. It seems I failed in that endeavor.. my apologies.

As I stated previously, I don't care much for numbers.. real world experience means more to me. I knew about the screen brightness issue (I watched dozens of videos before testing the brightness myself) but didn't know the number of nits. I visited a store numerous times (part of my pre-purchase research) and found that the screen brightness was ok with me, therefore knowing the number of nits would not have made any difference and would have been a waste of time to investigate.

Are you really upset about the nits? Or are you using that to avoid focusing on the fact that you failed to properly research a product? (another honest question)

Good luck with your studies.
 

OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

Suspended
Nov 14, 2018
235
354
I'm living in Europe and i went to an Apple reseller and bought the entry level macbook air 2018 (costs around 1450 USD here) last week and i started to have problems: big headaches and strained eyes. I'm finishing important uni work and this is a big problem

During my life, i had many apple products (imac, macbook pro, iphone, ipad..) and i never saw anything so dim like this. This is really dim. I compared it to my old imac 2013 and its like night and day... i'm shocked.

As a good customer and i guess as a reasonable person, i tried to see what was happening and i called AppleCare... i spoke with 3 different Apple people (the software expert, the hardware expert and the senior manager) and they simply tried to run from the problem.

I explained to them that i bought the computer and after one day (yes, one day...) i realized the computer was very very dark if compared with the "normal" computers from Apple.

They told me to go to an Apple authorized center and run a hardware check. I did what they told me to do and the test said the hardware was "ok".

I called them back and they tried to push the problem to the "Apple reseller" ("its their problem"!), but the Apple reseller says its not their problem because the Apple computer hardware test says the computer is "Ok".

I called Apple again and i explained they are hiding the "nits" of these new macbook air computers. If you go to their website they give you the nits of the Macbook Pro, Imac, Imac Pro, Ipad Pro, etc... but they hide it when you check the info about the "new" macbook air 2018. Why?

You can only find a reference about the macbook air nits if you use the "compare tool": it shows "300 nits".

But when i called Apple no one could tell me the "nits" and they said "we don't have that info or that info is private info from apple".

I can't believe what they are doing to Steve Job's company...

Why does Apple website shows the nits when you are checking the macbook pro, imac, ipad... and hides the "nits" when it comes to the macbook air?

And why does the Apple guys say "we don´t have that info" or "we don´t know that info".

The "apple hardware expert" sent me an email with a link to a webpage with the specs but the "nits" info is not there !

How can the consumer know what product is buying?

And it gets better.... after some research, i read tech experts saying the new macbook air maxed out in tests at 234 NITS!

The macbook pro has 500 nits, the ipad pro has 600!

Now i have a computer, brand new computer, with 3 cycles!, my eyes are suffering and i don´t even know the official nits!

How can i know if i have a faulty computer if i don´t have an official parameter? 300 nits? 250 nits?

I repeat: after calling apple 4 times, and speaking with 3 different people and asking "how many nits does the macbook air 2018 has", they all said "we don't know" or "we don´t give that information".

The hardware guy even told me that "Apple only gives the info that apple wants to give, we are not obliged to give the nits!".

But they are! How can i know if i have a faulty computer if they dont give the parameter?

And even more: they give that info about the macbook pro, imac or ipad!

I don´t know what to do!

I tried to change the calibration but its the same, during the day, with the daylight, its impossible to use this in a "normal way", the eyes suffer a lot with 234 nits or whatever!

Anyone has any idea about what we can do about this?

My suggestion would be to do research and test BEFORE you buy.
 

bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
2,256
2,673
On visits to the Apple Store, to me it seems that the new Air and MacBook use roughly the same sort of screen. Compared to the MBP they both seem washed out and dull.

It's strange that the cheaper iPad (regular) appears to have a better screen than these computers (I know with the touch layer it's not exactly the same thing).

I now wish that Apple would just get on with putting ARM components in their laptops. With the economies of scale that it will get from creating the ARM SoC for multiple product lines & hopefully similar LCD panels, we should start to see cheaper Macs - with more vibrant screens too.
 

OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

Suspended
Nov 14, 2018
235
354
Yes, they only give the 300 nits info if you "compare". But if you check the imac pro, the macbook pro, the ipad... they all have the nits in their product specs.

And again: the apple guys didnt know the nits. Spoke with 3 people from apple and they all said "we dont know the nits"

If we don't know the nits, how can we make an informed purchase?

Why don't they accept the computers back?

And how can we know if the computer has a problem if with don't have the official parameter of the nits?

How can i say its faulty w/out the official specs?

Another question. What is the "nit" benchmark? Is there a preferred "nit" level that is considered acceptable?

Research told me that 300 nit or less is what many laptops have. I just looked up my older 2014 Macbook Air and found the following:

"The screen's average brightness of 288 nits outshines the average ultraportable (251 nits) but is not the best in class. The Dell XPS 13, for instance, averaged 356 nits. However, the HP Spectre 13t mustered just 231 nits".

Did all your previous laptops give you headaches? Based on this info it seems there would be a headache epidemic if 300 nit were not enough in the past and caused health issues.
 
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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Another question. What is the "nit" benchmark? Is there a preferred "nit" level that is considered acceptable?

Research told me that 300 nit or less is what many laptops have. I just looked up my older 2014 Macbook Air and found the following:

"The screen's average brightness of 288 nits outshines the average ultraportable (251 nits) but is not the best in class. The Dell XPS 13, for instance, averaged 356 nits. However, the HP Spectre 13t mustered just 231 nits".

Did all your previous laptops give you headaches? Based on this info it seems there would be a headache epidemic if 300 nit were not enough in the past and caused health issues.

I've always worked with apple computers: macbook pro, imac and all they were very bright compared to the new MBA 2018, never had any problem, even the previous MBA has more brightness. Facts are facts.

Thank you for trying to help.
 
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OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

Suspended
Nov 14, 2018
235
354
I always used apple: macbook pro, imac and all are very bright compared to the new MBA 2018, never had any problem, even the previous MBA has more brightness. Facts are facts.

Thank you for trying to help.

I was trying to help. I just gave you an example of a 2014 MacBook Air that was tested and displayed an average of 288 nits.

Facts are facts:

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-13-inch-2014

I just looked up my other MBA which is a 2015 model and found it averages 334 nits.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-13-early-2015

Personally, side by side I see no difference between the two in screen brightness.

This whole thread sounds like you bought a MBA and later found out the Pro's were brighter, learned you can't return your MBA, and now you are upset. Sorry about that.

My point is for many years we have all used laptops with 300 or less nits, but now all of a sudden current models cause headaches? I don't understand that part.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,408
13,293
where hip is spoken
I have an honest question for you: How much more discussion about nits do you estimate is required to change the nits on your MacBook Air's screen?

Yes, Apple failed to post information about the nits. But, I feel that you should accept some of the blame here because I believe you could have done more research prior to purchase. This is the perfect chance to train yourself to do more in-depth study of a product before you spend money on it.
Only the individual consumer knows what is important to them. They bear the responsibility for determining whether or not a product they're considering is suitable for their purposes. The only time the manufacturer bears responsibility is when they (either deliberately or accidentally) misrepresent the product they're selling.

If screen brightness was an important spec for the OP, the OP had the responsibility to research that. If a hard nits number is impossible to find (not the case), then examining the device in person to determine if the screen brightness is suitable.

What was the urgency in buying this MBA without seeing it in person? To buy a device sight unseen from a reseller who has a very restrictive return policy is a perfect storm. Sorry OP, but this is a problem of your own making. It would help you greatly to learn from this.
 

Coltie

macrumors newbie
Dec 16, 2018
1
0
Interesting thread. I never heard of "nits" before. One thing I noticed about the new MBA was the intense screen glare. Makes sense now with the dimness being discussed.
 

Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Only the individual consumer knows what is important to them. They bear the responsibility for determining whether or not a product they're considering is suitable for their purposes. The only time the manufacturer bears responsibility is when they (either deliberately or accidentally) misrepresent the product they're selling.

If screen brightness was an important spec for the OP, the OP had the responsibility to research that. If a hard nits number is impossible to find (not the case), then examining the device in person to determine if the screen brightness is suitable.

What was the urgency in buying this MBA without seeing it in person? To buy a device sight unseen from a reseller who has a very restrictive return policy is a perfect storm. Sorry OP, but this is a problem of your own making. It would help you greatly to learn from this.


You said " The only time the manufacturer bears responsibility is when they (either deliberately or accidentally) misrepresent the product they're selling."

So, tell me, what's the nits "representation" here?

300? 250?

Can you link me the individual official specs of the MBA 2018?

And how about this:

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

Tell me, how it's my fault not knowing the nits?

Look here and tell me, where are the MBA nits?

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/
 
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