MBA2018 screen brightness (how many nits?) - the Nitgate?

[hm17]

Just reading your posts, OP, gives me an idea why the reseller wasn't accommodating. If you blindly lash out and accuse someone trying to help of attacking you, it's very difficult to keep people on your side. Maybe try speaking to the reseller again, in a less accusative and aggressive tone than the one you have been displaying here in the forum, and the reseller might be able to accommodate a return on good-will.

Years ago I had a MBA with a faulty battery. From day 1, the charge lasted at most 2 hours. I took it into the Apple store many times, but no fault was found, even though the geniuses agreed that the MBA should last 10 hours easily. But because the hardware test never showed the battery to be faulty, I wasn't given a repair or replacement (not even under my extended Apple Care or consumer laws). A couple years later, the battery completed kicked the bucket and became so swollen that it dislocated my trackpad. At that point my extended Apple Care had expired. So Apple told me, it would cost me a few hundred pounds to replace the battery. I discussed it with the genius for over an hour, was told again and again that it's out of warranty and that they could do absolutely nothing for me. I remained friendly, calm and simply repeated that the battery had always made troubles and that it should have been exchanged years ago under Apple Care. I stuck to my point, politely and calmly and lo and behold, in the end the genius gave me the repair on Apple's dime. I didn't behave "victorious", and simply thanked him very much for his understanding and accommodation. As we say in German "the tone makes the music" ... and if you spoke to the reseller with the same unwarranted rudeness as to the people trying to help you here in the forum, then it's no surprise to me that you've been hitting a wall.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Just reading your posts, OP, gives me an idea why the reseller wasn't accommodating. If you blindly lash out and accuse someone trying to help of attacking you, it's very difficult to keep people on your side. Maybe try speaking to the reseller again, in a less accusative and aggressive tone than the one you have been displaying here in the forum, and the reseller might be able to accommodate a return on good-will.

Years ago I had a MBA with a faulty battery. From day 1, the charge lasted at most 2 hours. I took it into the Apple store many times, but no fault was found, even though the geniuses agreed that the MBA should last 10 hours easily. But because the hardware test never showed the battery to be faulty, I wasn't given a repair or replacement (not even under my extended Apple Care or consumer laws). A couple years later, the battery completed kicked the bucket and became so swollen that it dislocated my trackpad. At that point my extended Apple Care had expired. So Apple told me, it would cost me a few hundred pounds to replace the battery. I discussed it with the genius for over an hour, was told again and again that it's out of warranty and that they could do absolutely nothing for me. I remained friendly, calm and simply repeated that the battery had always made troubles and that it should have been exchanged years ago under Apple Care. I stuck to my point, politely and calmly and lo and behold, in the end the genius gave me the repair on Apple's dime. I didn't behave "victorious", and simply thanked him very much for his understanding and accommodation. As we say in German "the tone makes the music" ... and if you spoke to the reseller with the same unwarranted rudeness as to the people trying to help you here in the forum, then it's no surprise to me that you've been hitting a wall.

Just reading your reply i can't stop thinking that this problem must be really something people don´t want me to talk about...

if you check other threads about this problem, you'll see how many people had the same issue.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-2018-screen-brightness.2153000/

My problem is that i cannot return it because the reseller only accepts it if the product is sealed or its faulty.

I spent more than 5 hours with apple care guys and they were very polite and the conversation was pleasant.

And i can tell you that even they were surprised that the "nits" information wasn't available online in the individual specs of the MBA 2018.

By the way, Germany is an amazing country. Congratulations!

Thanks for your input.

 

[Gamer-Dad]

Have both a 2018 MacBook Pro 15 2.6/16GB/512GB with 560X and my wife's 2018 MacBook Air 8GB/256GB Gold. Side by side, you can see that the Pro is brighter, but then again, its a Pro monicker machine. Different screen. With her Air away from my Pro, I find the screen to be very good. Perhaps your screen is faulty even though it passes the tests. Have you compared yours with another in store side by side? I'll attach a few pictures of mine and hers side by side, with brightness set to max on both, true tone turned off on mine and auto brightness turned off on both.


[doublepost=1544987172][/doublepost]This 1 is with auto brightness off on both, screens set to max, and true tone on with my Pro

 

[Joe Cookie]

Have both a 2018 MacBook Pro 15 2.6/16GB/512GB with 560X and my wife's 2018 MacBook Air 8GB/256GB Gold. Side by side, you can see that the Pro is brighter, but then again, its a Pro monicker machine. Different screen. With her Air away from my Pro, I find the screen to be very good. Perhaps your screen is faulty even though it passes the tests. Have you compared yours with another in store side by side? I'll attach a few pictures of mine and hers side by side, with brightness set to max on both, true tone turned off on mine and auto brightness turned off on both.

View attachment 811163 View attachment 811164 View attachment 811165 View attachment 811166 View attachment 811167 View attachment 811168 View attachment 811169
[doublepost=1544987172][/doublepost]This 1 is with auto brightness off on both, screens set to max, and true tone on with my Pro

View attachment 811172

thanks for the photos.

you may want to check this thread and you can see all the photos also posted there.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-2018-screen-brightness.2153000/

And talking about facts: 500 nits (MBP) vs. what? 234 nits? 300 nits? (MBA)

That´s the question.

tks

 

[hm17]

Just reading your reply i can't stop thinking that this problem must be really something people don´t want me to talk about...

if you check other threads about this problem, you'll see how many people had the same issue.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-2018-screen-brightness.2153000/

My problem is that i cannot return it because the reseller only accepts it if the product is sealed or its faulty.

I spent more than 5 hours with apple care guys and they were very polite and the conversation was pleasant.

And i can tell you that even they were surprised that the "nits" information wasn't available online in the individual specs of the MBA 2018.

By the way, Germany is an amazing country. Congratulations!

Thanks for your input.

I'm from Austria, not Germany. The MBA was bought in the Austrian Online Apple Store, shortly thereafter I moved to the UK and this is also where the battery was replaced in the Covent Garden Apple Store a few years later. The UK is notoriously bad with consumer laws and just to reiterate, I didn't get the battery replacement because of any consumer laws or warranty or because Germany, Austria or the UK are "amazing countries" as you put it. There was no legal reason I should have been given the replacement... but I got it due to the GOOD WILL of the Apple guy, because I was friendly and persistent. You may not be able to return your MBA legally, but what I'm saying to you is, that the manager of the store where you bought it probably has the discretion to decide case-by-case if he makes an exception or not. But you need to be very friendly for that to work.

 

[Gamer-Dad]

thanks for the photos.

you may want to check this thread and you can see all the photos also posted there.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-2018-screen-brightness.2153000/

And talking about facts: 500 nits (MBP) vs. what? 234 nits? 300 nits? (MBA)

That´s the question.

tks

Again, not saying you don't have a problem. Just saying mine is fine. I knew before I purchased her Air the screen was not as bright as the Pro's, but she decided to give it a try. I only buy from a reseller that has a return policy. B&H Photo here in the States has some of the best prices on Apple hardware, but I refuse to buy from them due to there return policy of once its opened, it's not returnable unless there is a factory defect. I instead usually buy from Best Buy and have them price match B&H (how I got my 2018 for $2400 back at Labor Day). And with Best Buy, being an Elite member, I get 45 days to return or exchange.

Pictures I posted were showing that our Air is perfectly acceptable. If I didn't already have my Pro, I could literally purchase another Air and use it for my everyday computer. It's definitely easier to carry around and pick up with the wedge base design. And performance is very good for a U processor.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Again, not saying you don't have a problem. Just saying mine is fine. I knew before I purchased her Air the screen was not as bright as the Pro's, but she decided to give it a try. I only buy from a reseller that has a return policy. B&H Photo here in the States has some of the best prices on Apple hardware, but I refuse to buy from them due to there return policy of once its opened, it's not returnable unless there is a factory defect. I instead usually buy from Best Buy and have them price match B&H (how I got my 2018 for $2400 back at Labor Day). And with Best Buy, being an Elite member, I get 45 days to return or exchange.

Pictures I posted were showing that our Air is perfectly acceptable. If I didn't already have my Pro, I could literally purchase another Air and use it for my everyday computer. It's definitely easier to carry around and pick up with the wedge base design. And performance is very good for a U processor.

[doublepost=1544993396][/doublepost]So, this is the MBA 2018 (entry level - ? nits) vs. my IMAC 2013 (entry level - 500 nits):

Both with word doc open.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Well, you have the official number from Apple by comparing the models. It says 300 nits. In reality this is always less, for pretty much every display device, laptop, computer, TV, projector, whatever.
If you want to find out if your MBA is broken or has a problem, how does the spec help you? The only way to find out is to actually measure the output. What's the output of your MBA display?

Headaches and eyestrain is usually not caused by low brightness, but rather the opposite. A small display that is too bright is like shining a flashlight into your eyes. That's why in pitch black rooms it's recommended to have a backlight behind the TV/display calibrated to 6500K. Switch to dark mode see what happens. If you still have headaches/eyestrain it's not a brightness problem. A possible reason would be too low ANSI CR, but not on/off CR. Nits itself doesn't help you as far as ANSI CR goes.

 

[kooky]

So, this is the MBA 2018 (entry level - ? nits) vs. my IMAC 2013 (entry level - 500 nits)

What does your MBA 2018 serial number start with? Is it C0?

 

[Joe Cookie]

What does your MBA 2018 serial number start with? Is it C0?

Yes, C0....

 

[kooky]

What doesn't make sense is when you read this review: https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/mac-and-macos/193796/apple-macbook-air-2018-review where it says, "I've seen a number of reviewers ding the MacBook Air display for being a bit dim. This has not been my experience, and I tend to use the Air with the brightness set to 40 percent or less most of the time and find it to be, if anything, too bright."

I have an FV- serial and I find it dim, you have a C0- serial and you find it dim, yet there are people out there (and also on this forum) who are so happy with the brightness that they have set it to less than maximum. How this reviewer finds 40% too bright, is mind boggling.

Unless it has something to do with our eyes (e.g. astigmatism), then I can only conclude that there must be variances in the hardware somewhere, or, something to do with a fault in the software/BIOS (e.g. fresh install vs Migration Assistant, causing some sort of energy-saving mode to activate which reduces screen brightness in the same way as running on battery power might with the Energy Saver system prefs option "slightly dim the display while on battery power")

 

[Aurora823]

I just repurchased the MacBook Air 2018 - this time I got the 128 gb instead of the 256 gb because they had it for super cheap on amazon (down to $1049). The serial number begins with FV and I feel it's brighter than the previous 256 gb MacBook Air 2018 I purchased and returned. I didn't make a note of the serial number of the 256gb but yea just wanted to let all know I am noticing a difference. The 256 gb was wayyyy too dim for me but this 128 gb I can deal with 3 notches down from max which I def couldn't do with the other! Very happy now just wish I had more space! Just will have to invest in a good external hard drive

 

[kooky]

I just repurchased the MacBook Air 2018 - this time I got the 128 gb instead of the 256 gb because they had it for super cheap on amazon (down to $1049). The serial number begins with FV and I feel it's brighter than the previous 256 gb MacBook Air 2018 I purchased and returned. I didn't make a note of the serial number of the 256gb but yea just wanted to let all know I am noticing a difference. The 256 gb was wayyyy too dim for me but this 128 gb I can deal with 3 notches down from max which I def couldn't do with the other! Very happy now just wish I had more space! Just will have to invest in a good external hard drive

Holy cow that's huge. Thanks for posting this!

I wonder if there's anywhere in your email history (or even on the receipt) that might have the old serial (maybe it's still in your apple id at appleid.apple.com?). I have a 256GB FV and I find it's lousy and washed out, that's for sure. Now I gotta look through old threads and see if there's anything that corroborates brightness of 128 > 256, I'm sure I remember one person posting about 128GB who was happy.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Holy cow that's huge. Thanks for posting this!

I wonder if there's anywhere in your email history (or even on the receipt) that might have the old serial (maybe it's still in your apple id at appleid.apple.com?). I have a 256GB FV and I find it's lousy and washed out, that's for sure. Now I gotta look through old threads and see if there's anything that corroborates brightness of 128 > 256, I'm sure I remember one person posting about 128GB who was happy.

I don't think it´s a 128GB vs 256Gb issue.

I have a 128GB.

I just want to know the real nits of this MBA 2018.... that´s what i would love to know.


(imac 2013 with 500 nits, basic level configuration vs. MBA 2018 128GB basic level configuration, how many nits? 234? 250? 300? Looking at the photos...)

If you check Apple's website, they don´t give the MBA individual info nits here:

Macbook Air 2018 (NO NITS info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

You need to use the comparate tool to get to the 300 nits info...


But they give that individual info about other macbooks, ipads and imacs nits:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/

Why?

Because of this?

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air


"While Apple rates the Air's panel as capable of producing 300 nits of brightness, our unit maxed out at 234 nits"

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-2018

 

[kooky]

Okay that’s good to know yours is 128GB C0 and poor. You’re trying to work out what the official nits value is, and I’m trying to work out why some people like the review I posted have brightness at 40% and are perfectly happy. 40% for me would be near dark. Doesn’t make sense.

 

[th0masp]

I’m trying to work out why some people like the review I posted have brightness at 40% and are perfectly happy. 40% for me would be near dark. Doesn’t make sense.

People work in all sorts of environments and perceive screen brightness very differently. I normally run my laptop display at 6 or so bars. 10 would have me fetch my sunglasses. Rather dark office though.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Okay that’s good to know yours is 128GB C0 and poor. You’re trying to work out what the official nits value is, and I’m trying to work out why some people like the review I posted have brightness at 40% and are perfectly happy. 40% for me would be near dark. Doesn’t make sense.

I agree with you. I can't even imagine.. or understand.

People work in all sorts of environments and perceive screen brightness very differently. I normally run my laptop display at 6 or so bars. 10 would have me fetch my sunglasses. Rather dark office though.

Nits are factual entities. It´s not subjectivity that i'm discussing here.

600 is a number, 500 is a number, 300 is a number, 234 is a number...

If a company advertises 300 nits and the computer is capable of less nits, we have a faulty product.

If a company hides (subtly and cleverly) the nits, we have a nitgate.

Consumers have all the right to know specs info in a clear and objective manner.

Not only using the compare tool or whatever...

If you check Apple's website and the individual products specs, you'll see that the MBA 2018 has no info about the nits, but the MBP, the IMAC, the IPAD.. they all have the nits info plastered in their individual specs (i posted the links above).

Why?

I'm just trying to figure this out: do we have a nitgate or do i have faulty product.

I asked 3 applecare guys about the nits and they all told me "we don't have that info".

I asked the "apple hardware expert" guy and got the same answer "i don't have that info".

I'll get to the bottom of this not matter what.

Thanks.

 

[Gamer-Dad]

The wife's is a C0 and her screen on average is at about 75% brightness. She hates dim screens. She hasn't complained about her's at all (she is coming from a Surface Book 2 to top it off which is a very bright panel).

 

[Joe Cookie]

The wife's is a C0 and her screen on average is at about 75% brightness. She hates dim screens. She hasn't complained about her's at all (she is coming from a Surface Book 2 to top it off which is a very bright panel).

C0 here too..

Does this looks ok to you? (Imac 2013 with 500 nits vs. MBA 2018 with ? nits)

 

[th0masp]

Nits are factual entities. It´s not subjectivity that i'm discussing here.

Yes I noticed that you are discussing 'nits' - whatever they are. I was however replying to another user specifically about perception.

 

[Kraizelburg]

The wife's is a C0 and her screen on average is at about 75% brightness. She hates dim screens. She hasn't complained about her's at all (she is coming from a Surface Book 2 to top it off which is a very bright panel).

Hi, changing subject, how's your wife coping with the performance of the MBA? is it good enough?

Thanks
[doublepost=1545051000][/doublepost]

C0 here too..

Does this looks ok to you? (Imac 2013 with 500 nits vs. MBA 2018 with ? nits)

View attachment 811293

I don't have anything to compare with apart from my LG ultrawide 29" monitor but comparing both pics it seems to me either, too dim display-yellowish or display it's faulty somehow.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

How this reviewer finds 40% too bright, is mind boggling.

How is this mind boggling? Everyone is perceiving brightness differently. It even depends on the situation and environment you're in. For example, I'm very sensitive to brightness. On really sunny days, I can't even go outside without sunglasses, because it hurts my eyes. Others don't have the same problem.

I've said this before, no spec sheet will tell you how bright a display really is. As you can see the MBA is rated at 300 nits, yet it only delivers ~230. The MBP is rated at 500 and the output is ~460. The only way to get the actual output is to measure each individual unit. And yes, of course some units might be brighter and than others. Some might be 220, others 250. This has been the case with every display device for decades, why should it be different now?

 

[Gamer-Dad]

C0 here too..

Does this looks ok to you? (Imac 2013 with 500 nits vs. MBA 2018 with ? nits)

View attachment 811293

I would say your MBA has a warmer, more yellowish color than your iMac which is cooler, more blue. I don't think you can really compare the 2 either, as they are both different display technologies. You saw my comparisons above with my MBP and my wife's MBA. They are very close.

Giving the ill fate of Apple as of late, the tolerances between devices can be hit or miss. Just as with my MBP, I haven't had any Bridge OS crashes or issues with speakers crackling. My MBP stays relatively quiet and my fans only ramp up under heavy loads. Others not so great. I think the same thing is happening here with the MBA. Some screens are better than others. I bought the MBA knowing that it wasn't a Pro machine, and was missing some features that the Pro machines have (True tone, brighter display), but I took a chance. My wife wasn't happy with her Surface Book 2, and really wanted to go back to the Mac. I showed her the new Air, that it came in gold, and she was sold on it. Again, she is very anal about dim screens. She hasn't complained at all about her screen, even when I'm sitting next to her on the couch with my MBP. She is very happy with it.

Now the question is, what does Apple conceive as being a screen that is to dim? Have you bothered to compare your MBA next to another MBA in the same room? Thats the only way to tell. If it makes you this unhappy, sell it, but something else. Next time buy from a reputable reseller that allows returns for other than defects once opened.

As a side note, both of our MB's are set to the REC709 profile, white balance set to 7.2K
[doublepost=1545055330][/doublepost]

Hi, changing subject, how's your wife coping with the performance of the MBA? is it good enough?

Thanks

She really likes it! Funny story. Earlier this year (back in May), I originally bought her a MacBook Pro 13" nTB i5/8GB/256GB Silver. She was coming from an aging Dell laptop that was finally dying. She had a hard time learning the MacOS environment, and she wasn't all that happy. So I took it back, had her meet me at the store to look at laptops and ended up buying the Surface Book 2 i5/8GB/256GB. I told her it was a nice laptop, gorgeous screen, nice 3:2 aspect ratio, no fan noise, crappy wifi however. BUT, it was top heavy and I thought she wouldn't like it after a few months. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, we went away for our anniversary and she is sitting there using her SB2, and says to me, I really hate how top heavy this thing is, and the thickness of it. Meanwhile I was sitting there with my 15" MBP like, haha, told ya!

Showed her the new MBA in gold and she was like Wowser! Also showed her the new Surface Laptop 2 and she liked that as well. In the end, she chose the MBA and she has been happy with it. She loves the keyboard, she is giving herself more time to learn the OS, and she loves how everything flows from iPhone, iWatch, BeatsX, to MBA. The system is snappy enough even with Windows running in Parallels 14 for her work stuff, speakers sound just as good as all the MB's do. SSD isn't nearly as fast as the MBP but its not nVME, and the wifi isn't as fast as the MBP, but much faster than her SB2 was.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, if I was in the market for a new laptop myself, I would highly consider getting the MBA for myself. It does what I need it to do in a small light form factor, and the wedge design actually makes carrying and handling it easier than the MBP.

 

[Joe Cookie]

How is this mind boggling? Everyone is perceiving brightness differently. It even depends on the situation and environment you're in. For example, I'm very sensitive to brightness. On really sunny days, I can't even go outside without sunglasses, because it hurts my eyes. Others don't have the same problem.

I've said this before, no spec sheet will tell you how bright a display really is. As you can see the MBA is rated at 300 nits, yet it only delivers ~230. The MBP is rated at 500 and the output is ~460. The only way to get the actual output is to measure each individual unit. And yes, of course some units might be brighter and than others. Some might be 220, others 250. This has been the case with every display device for decades, why should it be different now?

I disagree, again.
Like i said before, nits are factual entities.
They are units of measurement.
Objective science.
Nits are units of measurement of luminance, or the intensity of visible light, where one nit is equal to one candela per square meter.
Nits are used to describe the brightness of computer displays. They are objective.
Your subjective perception of the nits is legally irrelevant.
The nits don't change because of your subjective perception.
600 nits is an objective measurement result, 500 nits is an objective measurement result, 300 nits is an objective measurement result, 234 nits is an objective measurement result... it´s a "quality" of a thing, it´s an "objective property" that defines its substance and its objective functionality.

If a company advertises 300/400/500 nits and the computer is capable of less nits, we have a faulty product. If a company hides (subtly and cleverly) the nits, we have a nitgate.

Defending Apple using the "oh, they say its 300 nits but its 230 or whatever less.. its normal" is something beyond words. If they sell a computer only capable of 234 nits and they say it's capable of 300 (and they are not being upfront about this), they have to give you a computer that is capable of 300 nits and they have to inform you in a clear way about it.

Its basic logic.

I have the right to know from Appple the objective measurement results of a product that i'm buying. I need the results, objective results, because i need to know what i´m buying and i need to know the quality parameter of that product to be able to say "it´s faulty".

Brightness isn't a secondary property of a product. It´s not a plus but a sine qua non.

If you believe in a certain religion, you believe in its dogma, or core assumptions.
If you buy a computer, you buy a "thing" and not dogmas.
Nits are objective units of measurement.
Nits give us info about one objective property of the product.
We have the right to now the measurement results.
They are legally binding, the conformity rules apply.

 

[burgman]

Honest question for you: what?

You said you do a lot of research and you don´t even know the nits!

You said you´ll by one anyway (good job!) and you only learned about the nits from me! You said "i don´t care about the numbers" in a prior comment...! Just wow!

And now you are telling "take the hit little boy"! Learn from the daddy!

I called apple 4 times and they don't know the nits or they do not tell me the nits.

Are you kidding me?

How can i know the nits if the apple guys (3 different guys) don´t tell me the official nits?

Imagine you are a person working for apple (are you?) and i want to know the specs.

Should i ask you or should i read it online? Its not even in the box!

Like i told you, 3 diff apple guys couldn´t tell me the nits info.

And their website is what we already know and you even admit that they failed to provide the info.

If they "failed to provide" (as you say) the info on their website and by phone, how come it is my fault?

Are you saying that i need to read info on non related apple websites to know the specs of apple products?

Why does apple shows the nits info about the other computers in their individual specs?

They just forgot to put the nits on the individual specs info (of the MBA 2018)...

Did you think the one you got would be brighter than the demo models in the store? The brightness difference was obvious in the stores when I looked at them. You are just going in circles on a forum, to what end? I feel bad for anyone who isn't happy with a product, but you're an owner and it seems you know the options available to you. Circular forum posts with rehashing and rants to strangers is entertaining but useless.