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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
All your picture shows is two screens and one is brighter than the other one. You could put a 1000 nit screen and it will be brighter still. It doesn't say anything about how is it like to use the MBA.

The question is whether the objectively lower brightness can produce some issues during normal use. I would say for most people, no unless they want to use it outdoors. MBA would be more compelling with a 500 nits screen (or a quad-core CPU, 512GB SSD in standard, ...), but it is not a deal breaker. Definitely not see any nit gate, false advertisement or anything like that.

I actually don't own the new MBA yet. Only tested it a couple of times and most likely will order it as I like iy. My daily driver is still 2014 15" MBP (measured about 286 nits or so in review). I am using it at about 4 clicks down from max. I also have an iMac Pro with 500 nits which I never use at the max as there is no reason for it IMHO.


Dude, you're in the EU. Base EU law is 14-day return period *no question asked*, if you reseller says otherwise he's lying because he doesn't want to deal with it.

If you knew the problem from the start and didn't return it within that period that's your fault, and it will be extremely hard to convince apple otherwise, and they will always fall back to the "this is between you and your reseller".

My i9 was faulty, had a flickering display - and I didn't notice until 14day return period was over, and i quibbled with apple and reseller for two months before i got a refund. and it was a defect, not a "nonspecified-works-as-expected-function"

Not true. Check the laws. I checked them.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.

ONLY if you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

You don´t need to be a genius to read basic eu law...

Read it ... its good to read before attacking someone.

Helps a lot!

Even a genius can get this:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
 
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Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,325
1,560
Not true. Check the laws. I checked them.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.

ONLY if you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

You don´t need to be a genius to read basic eu law...

Read it ... its good to read before attacking someone.

Helps a lot!

Even a genius can get this:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

wait, so you SAW the laptop (didn't order it) and bought it?! how didn't you notice the display when you bought it?

If you did buy it in a shop, get a someone with a light meter and measure it. What are you waiting for ?! you wont solve this online or via phone anyway.

edit:
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/macbook-air-2018

they got 304 nits out of it.
You can either measure it and request a replacement, or return it because you didn't saw it before you purchase it. That's it!
 

mpe

macrumors 6502
Sep 3, 2010
334
205
True. But in case of Apple they have generous return policy beyond requirements of the law. They do provide a 14 days return window also for stuff bought physically in store.

When purchasing item like this I recommend everybody to:
- do the homework and read different reviews. There is a million of them in case of MBA.
- go to one of many of their retail stores and test and compare the product.
- use a trader with generous return policy, such as Apple Online Store
- preferably purchase online to get even longer return window (Apple offers 14 days to decide + 14 days to return) which is 28 days. In many countries they have a special holiday policy which is even longer.

Sometimes, you don't have to be "a genius".
[doublepost=1545133712][/doublepost]This is bizarre. People are sometimes ridiculous. Reminds me a woman who wants to sue Apple for her phone having a notch:

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-notch-lawsuit-2018-12?r=US&IR=T
 

revmacian

macrumors 68000
Oct 20, 2018
1,745
1,468
USA
Not true. Check the laws. I checked them.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.

ONLY if you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

You don´t need to be a genius to read basic eu law...

Read it ... its good to read before attacking someone.

Helps a lot!

Even a genius can get this:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
How is it that you didn't notice this screen problem in the store before you bought the machine? Was this not a problem until you found out about the nits number, then you felt cheated and blew this way out of proportion?

I think it would benefit you right now to step back, realize this issue isn't going away and try to find something positive in all of this - at least learning how to not make this type of mistake in the future. Allowing stress to remain in one situation can bleed over into other areas and cause problems everywhere. Learning how to live in a situation in which you have no control can actually be beneficial.
 
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sheiko

macrumors newbie
Dec 5, 2018
13
4
The new MacBook is a good device, it would seem that this is old good air but with a new retina display. As for me, I only required that Apple added the retina screen on this line of laptops, and a nice new butterfly keyboard was sort of a bonus, but... no - just the same pleasant surf in the net, for what it actually is, does not work, because the hand is constantly reaching to press the F2 to add more brightness, but it turns out that it is at the maximum level.
I don't know, if compared to mine Air 11.6" (Mid 2011) and 13.3" 2017 here in Air 2018 is the darkest screen and this is for me the main reason to think about changing laptop. If I knew in advance, maybe would buy the Pro version where the brightness is ok. At the moment I'm thinking about selling my new 2018 Air.
By the way, about the stated 12 hours of battery life, it is likely in some ideal conditions, as in my normal use with a bunch of tabs open in chrome, the result was about 7 hours. As I thought, the previous Air showed better figures, although I may be mistaken.
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,325
1,560
The new MacBook is a good device, it would seem that this is old good air but with a new retina display. As for me, I only required that Apple added the retina screen on this line of laptops, and a nice new butterfly keyboard was sort of a bonus, but... no - just the same pleasant surf in the net, for what it actually is, does not work, because the hand is constantly reaching to press the F2 to add more brightness, but it turns out that it is at the maximum level.
I don't know, if compared to mine Air 11.6" (Mid 2011) and 13.3" 2017 here in Air 2018 is the darkest screen and this is for me the main reason to think about changing laptop. If I knew in advance, maybe would buy the Pro version where the brightness is ok. At the moment I'm thinking about selling my new 2018 Air.
By the way, about the stated 12 hours of battery life, it is likely in some ideal conditions, as in my normal use with a bunch of tabs open in chrome, the result was about 7 hours. As I thought, the previous Air showed better figures, although I may be mistaken.
chrome is resource hogging cancer
 

sheiko

macrumors newbie
Dec 5, 2018
13
4
chrome is resource hogging cancer
Probably, it is just a habit left from Windows laptops. It seems like Safari have the same extensions as Chrome, so need to try use the native browser by default.
 
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kreasonos

macrumors 6502
Dec 4, 2013
441
403
I don’t understand the complaints with the brightness of this display. My Thinkpad has a display that is like 70 nits less than the new MBA and it’s bright enough to hurt my eyes.
 
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Gamer-Dad

macrumors regular
Aug 11, 2018
159
142
Pasadena MD USA
Really bummed today! My wife's Air was having an issue with opening the lid, and the computer not coming on automatically. Screen would stay black, keyboard would light for a few seconds, then go out, but the caps lock key could still be pressed and the indicator would go on and off while pressing the key. FInally had to hold the power button, until it would finally reboot. Tried clearing the SMC, PRAM, reinstalling the OS. Talked to Apple for about 45 minutes this morning to no avail. Was intermittent. Sometimes it would work just fine, then others as described above. Per Apple, I exchanged the Air at Best Buy. Got home, went to set it up, and bam, dim screen on full brightness,. I was like oh no. WIfe was like uh what did you do? Through it back in the box, had to drive to another Best Buy to get another gold. Got back home, went to set it up, and same thing, dim dull screen. Not happy to say the least! Especially since I was able to get the Air for a great price at $1199 with price match with MicroCenter. Went back to the Apple section, looked at the floor model Air and compared it to the nTB 13" Pro. Was definitely much dimmer and colors were no where near what our original Air was. Ended up exchanging the Air for the nTB 13" silver, 8GB/256GB. Wife really loved the gold, but was tired of playing screen roulette and the next closest store that had a gold 256GB in stock was about 20 miles away.

Wonder if my original screen was actually a Pro screen that was placed in the Air chassis? I never did a terminal command to see if I could get the screen manufacturer. My first Air was definitely much more vibrant and brighter than the 2 I brought home today and looking at the floor display.

Luckily I purchased from a store where I could exchange/return. They also price matched B&H price to $1299 (regular $1499).
 
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Wags

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2006
2,239
1,701
Nebraska, USA
Really bummed today! My wife's Air was having an issue with opening the lid, and the computer not coming on automatically. Screen would stay black, keyboard would light for a few seconds, then go out, but the caps lock key could still be pressed and the indicator would go on and off while pressing the key. FInally had to hold the power button, until it would finally reboot. Tried clearing the SMC, PRAM, reinstalling the OS. Talked to Apple for about 45 minutes this morning to no avail. Was intermittent. Sometimes it would work just fine, then others as described above. Per Apple, I exchanged the Air at Best Buy. Got home, went to set it up, and bam, dim screen on full brightness,. I was like oh no. WIfe was like uh what did you do? Through it back in the box, had to drive to another Best Buy to get another gold. Got back home, went to set it up, and same thing, dim dull screen. Not happy to say the least! Especially since I was able to get the Air for a great price at $1199 with price match with MicroCenter. Went back to the Apple section, looked at the floor model Air and compared it to the nTB 13" Pro. Was definitely much dimmer and colors were no where near what our original Air was. Ended up exchanging the Air for the nTB 13" silver, 8GB/256GB. Wife really loved the gold, but was tired of playing screen roulette and the next closest store that had a gold 256GB in stock was about 20 miles away.

Wonder if my original screen was actually a Pro screen that was placed in the Air chassis? I never did a terminal command to see if I could get the screen manufacturer. My first Air was definitely much more vibrant and brighter than the 2 I brought home today and looking at the floor display.

Luckily I purchased from a store where I could exchange/return. They also price matched B&H price to $1299 (regular $1499).
Wonder if came from same manufacturing factory. Happen to have serial numbers. First 2 letters different from first?
 

lpolarityl

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2009
520
327
Ohio
Really bummed today! My wife's Air was having an issue with opening the lid, and the computer not coming on automatically. Screen would stay black, keyboard would light for a few seconds, then go out, but the caps lock key could still be pressed and the indicator would go on and off while pressing the key. FInally had to hold the power button, until it would finally reboot. Tried clearing the SMC, PRAM, reinstalling the OS. Talked to Apple for about 45 minutes this morning to no avail. Was intermittent. Sometimes it would work just fine, then others as described above. Per Apple, I exchanged the Air at Best Buy. Got home, went to set it up, and bam, dim screen on full brightness,. I was like oh no. WIfe was like uh what did you do? Through it back in the box, had to drive to another Best Buy to get another gold. Got back home, went to set it up, and same thing, dim dull screen. Not happy to say the least! Especially since I was able to get the Air for a great price at $1199 with price match with MicroCenter. Went back to the Apple section, looked at the floor model Air and compared it to the nTB 13" Pro. Was definitely much dimmer and colors were no where near what our original Air was. Ended up exchanging the Air for the nTB 13" silver, 8GB/256GB. Wife really loved the gold, but was tired of playing screen roulette and the next closest store that had a gold 256GB in stock was about 20 miles away.

Wonder if my original screen was actually a Pro screen that was placed in the Air chassis? I never did a terminal command to see if I could get the screen manufacturer. My first Air was definitely much more vibrant and brighter than the 2 I brought home today and looking at the floor display.

Luckily I purchased from a store where I could exchange/return. They also price matched B&H price to $1299 (regular $1499).

That is some insanely bad luck! My wife and I just recently got the new Air, a Space Grey and Gold. Both were bought within a couple weeks of each other from a local Microcenter. We have the 256gb/8gb model (Microcenter has them for $1,199). Mine is a FV and her's is a C0. No issues to report so far.
[doublepost=1545226601][/doublepost]
All the reviews I saw complained the screen was dim. All the information relating to brightness/nits was measured by dozens of tech review sites.

In future do some research before spending your money.

100% concur. To the OP, We just bought two MBAs and both are more than bright enough. I understand people having issues with the brightness being an issue for specific reasons (maybe you work in direct sunlight all the time or wear sunglasses while using a computer?). But other than that, I don't really get the issue with MBA's screen having a lower nit rating being such a big issue. It has a 7W processor, uses a 30W charger, having a lower nit rated screen only makes sense (so it can use less battery at full brightness). Is it really this hard to understand why Apple used a lower nit panel?

My thing is, if the screen isn't bright enough, and if that single thing was an issue, why even consider the MBA if the screen nit rating is such a major factor? If you compare the Air to a Pro side by side in the store, its clear the Pro has a brighter screen. So if having the absolute brightest screen possible is a priority (which to the OP it clearly is very important), purchasers should make that a priority prior to purchase. Wait for the reviews, look at it in person, then purchase. It's that simple. Threads like this, with pitchfork-like posts about the screen and it being a valid reason to garner a "gate" moniker is getting old. People need to watch reviews, understand what the product is that they're buying/comparing, then decide what to purchase or what to return.

Edit: Just thought about the MacBook and its 12 inch display, and it having a brighter display than the new Air. 340 nits vs the Air's 300 nits, percentage wise that is 13% difference. The MacBook's screen is 1.3 inches smaller, percentage wise that is nearly 11%, 10.8% to be exact. The MacBook also uses the 30W charger and has a 41Wh battery (2018 MBA's battery is 50Wh). Did anyone complain about the MacBook's 340 nits or 30W charger when it came out? If they did, I can't recall.

In my opinion it seems that one reviewer/review will mention a single "major" difference in a product and use that single difference as the reason to not buy something vs something else. This said reviewer/review may have been a major figure in the tech review scene so now this issue becomes gospel and must be a complaint topic. They won't go into full specifications (screen size, battery size, overall power usage information, processor choice purpose, target audience and product purpose, etc.) on why said issue is an issue, so it then gets blown way out of proportion and in turn, becomes an issue. It's the same with bendgate (who bent phones prior to that video, no one did). Why did unbox therapy bend the phone? Because a user sat on their giant iPhone 6 Plus and accidentally bent their phone. Sitting on a 6.2" block of hallow aluminum with full weight.... its gonna bend... anyway. I think I've made my point, people need to research more if they're going to care this much about what some YouTube reviewer says. In Tool's song "Third Eye", the first couple minutes has a great set of advice.
 
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Aurora823

macrumors newbie
Nov 16, 2018
28
12
Really bummed today! My wife's Air was having an issue with opening the lid, and the computer not coming on automatically. Screen would stay black, keyboard would light for a few seconds, then go out, but the caps lock key could still be pressed and the indicator would go on and off while pressing the key. FInally had to hold the power button, until it would finally reboot. Tried clearing the SMC, PRAM, reinstalling the OS. Talked to Apple for about 45 minutes this morning to no avail. Was intermittent. Sometimes it would work just fine, then others as described above. Per Apple, I exchanged the Air at Best Buy. Got home, went to set it up, and bam, dim screen on full brightness,. I was like oh no. WIfe was like uh what did you do? Through it back in the box, had to drive to another Best Buy to get another gold. Got back home, went to set it up, and same thing, dim dull screen. Not happy to say the least! Especially since I was able to get the Air for a great price at $1199 with price match with MicroCenter. Went back to the Apple section, looked at the floor model Air and compared it to the nTB 13" Pro. Was definitely much dimmer and colors were no where near what our original Air was. Ended up exchanging the Air for the nTB 13" silver, 8GB/256GB. Wife really loved the gold, but was tired of playing screen roulette and the next closest store that had a gold 256GB in stock was about 20 miles away.

Wonder if my original screen was actually a Pro screen that was placed in the Air chassis? I never did a terminal command to see if I could get the screen manufacturer. My first Air was definitely much more vibrant and brighter than the 2 I brought home today and looking at the floor display.

Luckily I purchased from a store where I could exchange/return. They also price matched B&H price to $1299 (regular $1499).

Wow...and I thought my Air experiences were a trip...Sorry you had to go through all that. And very smart choice buying from a store with a good return/exchange policy...I have definitely made the mistake of purchasing a laptop from bhphoto only to have issues both the first time (first time - nick on side of bezel and second time - laptop (MacBook Pro w/ touch bar 2018) super overheating - downloaded supplemental update and seems to have "fixed" it - it was overheating while streaming a video on amazon for 5 minutes)...instead of refunding me my money they said they would exchange as many times until the product is right...I'm like isn't that a bad policy for both of us? So yea sorry for going on I'm just glad you chose a place that was good abt returns. The Air really does seem like a toss up when it comes to consistent quality...My first MacBook Air 2018 was such a good deal ($1,271 (including tax) for 256gb from Microcenter) but the screen was so dim :( I returned it but seriously missed the form factor - I found the 128gb model on Amazon for a low price ($1049) so I grabbed that thinking well it will probably be just as dim and boy was I surprised because it is super bright! In a dark room it is still decent at 50% brightness. On my original one the screen would have been almost completely black at that point....I really can't believe Apple has made no statement about this yet....very strange. Even when I asked Apple on a chat if many people were complaining about this and they were like we haven't heard anything about that....I'm like hmmmmmmm
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
3,255
5,779
Somewhere between 0 and 1
Nits, as in those nasty parasitic insects, or something else?

I hope people soon will realize how stupid is to call anything problematic with Apple devices with "-gate" suffix, and that everyone will call them out for that, and that they will bow their head down in shame.
 
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KB23

macrumors member
Nov 14, 2017
62
48
Toronto, Canada
Crying and bitching on an online forum won't do anything. Should have done your research on the reseller as well as the MacBook Air. You snooze you lose.
 
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latweek

macrumors regular
Mar 26, 2015
174
243
I hope people soon will realize how stupid is to call anything problematic with Apple devices with "-gate" suffix, and that everyone will call them out for that, and that they will bow their head down in shame.

Yes you do. And no, they won't.

Focus on your own happiness, rather than other's misery.
 

sheiko

macrumors newbie
Dec 5, 2018
13
4
Official Apple web-site says, that Air 13.3" 2017 and Air 13.3" 2018 displays is 300 nits brightness. I have both, so here is the face to face comparison (at full brightness, with the same settings such as color profile, night shift off, disabled auto brightness and with room light off).
Need to say, that 2018 Air's display looks like a little bit dimmer but making a more "warmer" and, of course, more detailed picture (retina merit).
 

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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Official Apple web-site says, that Air 13.3" 2017 and Air 13.3" 2018 displays is 300 nits brightness. I have both, so here is the face to face comparison (at full brightness, with the same settings such as color profile, night shift off, disabled auto brightness and with room light off).
Need to say, that 2018 Air's display looks like a little bit dimmer and make a more "warmer" picture.

Hello Sheiko,

Thanks for sharing your photos.

Can you compare them using a white page full screen test?


They really show a difference even with the previous generation...

They also show how this review is right: "That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

This is how my "brand new and amazing screen" with "300 or 234 nits" looks like (vs. old basic imac from 2013, not retina):

IMG_4621.jpg
 
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sheiko

macrumors newbie
Dec 5, 2018
13
4
Joe Cookie, I know that! If compare to my 2017 iMac 21.5" 4K, that have 500 nits, as Apple says, the difference between new Air is really huge - and that makes me thinking about new MBP.
I also have an old Mid 2011 Air 11.6", that I'm selling now, and as it seems to me, it also have a more brighter display than new Air.
 

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Joe Cookie

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 16, 2018
49
9
Joe Cookie, I know that! If compare to my 2017 iMac 21.5" 4K, that have 500 nits, as Apple says, the difference between new Air is really huge - and that makes me thinking about new MBP.
I also have an old Mid 2011 Air 11.6", that I'm selling now, and as it seems to me, it also have a more brighter display than new Air.
iMac 2017 on top, Air 2017 on the left and Air 2018 on the right.
One can notice the difference for worse even with the previous MBA generation...
Thank your for posting this.
 

Markgnyc2

macrumors 6502
Nov 17, 2013
391
727
I have the new MBA that I keep at half brightness and its just as bright as the NTB MBP that my son has. I am no creative pro, but I can't notice a difference. For casual use, the MBA is just fine.
 
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lpolarityl

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2009
520
327
Ohio
Is the dress blue or black, white or gold? Yanny or laurel? I don't really see a notable difference in any of those pics. @Joe Cookie could you do a comparison picture where we can both screens in their entirety, similar to what @sheiko did? I'd like to see what the issue is. The MacRumors front page on both screens is a pretty good page to use.
 
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