MBA2018 screen brightness (how many nits?) - the Nitgate?

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

You said " The only time the manufacturer bears responsibility is when they (either deliberately or accidentally) misrepresent the product they're selling."

So, tell me, what's the nits "representation" here?

300? 250?

Can you link me the individual official specs of the MBA 2018?

And how about this:

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

Tell me, how it's my fault not knowing the nits?

Look here and tell me, where are the MBA nits?

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/

Why didn't you do all this research before?

Again to my point about how previous laptops have performed. From your own example:

The 2017 MBA article you referenced said: "It outshines the 290-nit category average".

So again my question would be did all your laptops from years past give you headaches? Why now? The average from years past has been a lot lower than the current Apple Pro models. Why it it now a problem?

 

[glycerine00]

But they should give the "nits" info. This is not only about my situation.

If you check their website, they don´t have it here:

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/

Why?

Since they don't give the info with either version of the MacBook Air, or the Macbook, I would presume it's because it just follows the industry standard and isn't worth mentioning in the specifications. They are however not hiding it as you can see it when you compare the models. Btw, out of the four products you mentioned, three have the pro name attached to it. I would expect an extra step up from a regular to a pro machine.

I understand your frustration. I come from a late 2013 rMBP and I definitely noticed right away in the store that the screen was less bright. I even brought my current laptops at the time (the rMPB and an old Air) to test it with me, it was something I thought about for some weeks. Ultimately, on Cyber Monday there was a good deal on this MBA and I decided to go for it.
Do I notice it? If I use my pro and switch, yes.
If I just pick up the new MBA and use it - it's in the back of my mind but it's less of a bother because I'm not actively comparing it, and in usage it's fine for me. Ofcourse, it's winter now so I do wonder how I will feel when summer comes. I also do not have a headache.

I live in Europe as well, and after opening a computer there is no way to take it back in my country either. That's why I did read up on reviews first and went to test them out.

As for options, I don't know where you bought the computer but if you can't return it because it's not faulty then

A) you can sell it second hand - I know you don't want to do that as you think it's defective, but keep in mind not everybody has been spoiled by a great Mac screen in the past. In regular usage it's fine, and for most people it's probably going to be great. Unless you actually know the nits, don't be to sure you really have a "dud" because you were used to something different/better.

B) If you really feel yours has a defect, I would try to find someone who can help you with actually measuring your screen nits. It's possible to do it as someone did in their review. How though, I have no idea. Maybe book an appointment with the Apple store, or see if you can find a shop that knows Macs? I'm sure it's not always going to be 300 nits exact, but if it's really far below maybe you can use that in your case to give them a refund.

C) Find a professional to calibrate the screen


I wish you the best of luck, sadly after opening and testing a product at home, options are pretty limited of what you can do when you don't like something (or at least in our case it seems).

 

[PhiLLoW]

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

wow...really? My 2013 Macbook air is already too dark sometimes and I thought about upgrading to get a better display.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

You said " The only time the manufacturer bears responsibility is when they (either deliberately or accidentally) misrepresent the product they're selling."

So, tell me, what's the nits "representation" here?

300? 250?

Can you link me the individual official specs of the MBA 2018?

And how about this:

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

Tell me, how it's my fault not knowing the nits?

Look here and tell me, where are the MBA nits?

Macbook Air 2018(no nits info):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/specs/

But they give that info about macbooks, ipads and imacs:

Macbook pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-pro/specs/

Imac (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac/specs/

Imac pro (500 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/imac-pro/specs/

Ipad pro (600 nits):
https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-pro/specs/

You still did not reply to several questions about the country you are from. I am from the Netherlands (in the EU) and I just checked Apple's return policy for my country. The return policy here is that you can return any Apple product within 14 days for no reason. No questions asked. As far as I know this return policy is valid in the whole EU.

If you are also from the EU maybe you should spend your energy trying to enforce Apple's return policy since your have your MacBook Air for only 7 days. Trying to prove your point on an Apple forum is nice but will only end in a discussion with people who don't agree with you to no effect.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Why didn't you do all this research before?

Again to my point about how previous laptops have performed. From your own example:

The 2017 MBA article you referenced said: "It outshines the 290-nit category average".

So again my question would be did all your laptops from years past give you headaches? Why now? The average from years past has been a lot lower than the current Apple Pro models. Why it it now a problem?

Because it´s the first time i have such a dim screen, i always had apple computers with brighter screens... this is the first time i even heard about this problem being a thing.

And like i said before, you are saying i should have done research, but how can it would be possible if the website doesnt show the nits and even the apple guys said they didnt know the info...

 

[PhiLLoW]

You still did not reply to several questions about the country you are from. I am from the Netherlands (in the EU) and I just checked Apple's return policy for my country. The return policy here is that you can return any Apple product within 14 days for no reason. No questions asked. As far as I know this return policy is valid in the whole EU.

If you are also from the EU maybe you should spend your energy trying to enforce Apple's return policy since your have your MacBook Air for only 7 days. Trying to prove your point on an Apple forum is nice but will only end in a discussion with people who don't agree with you to no effect.

Something is super off in this thread. It's weird that he mentions the word "nits" in every reply and is so focused on this measurement but disregards all the other replies. It's always focused on "THE NITS IS SO LOW" instead of "how can we fix this problem".

 

[Joe Cookie]

You still did not reply to several questions about the country you are from. I am from the Netherlands (in the EU) and I just checked Apple's return policy for my country. The return policy here is that you can return any Apple product within 14 days for no reason. No questions asked. As far as I know this return policy is valid in the whole EU.

If you are also from the EU maybe you should spend your energy trying to enforce Apple's return policy since your have your MacBook Air for only 7 days. Trying to prove your point on an Apple forum is nice but will only end in a discussion with people who don't agree with you to no effect.

I'm the EU too. And i know all about the consumer laws in the eu, the consumer european directives and etc. But again, and please listen carefully: the reseller says "its apple´s problem" because the product isn´t faulty; Apple says it´s resellers problem.
When i asked about the nits (i asked the reseller about it, and i asked 3 applecare guys also), no one gave me the info.
How could i know the specs before buying?
How can i know if i have a faulty computer if i don't know the parameters to compare?
If my nits are (for example) 250, is it a faulty product?
Who knows?
[doublepost=1544976142][/doublepost]

Something is super off in this thread. It's weird that he mentions the word "nits" in every reply and is so focused on this measurement but disregards all the other replies. It's always focused on "THE NITS IS SO LOW" instead of "how can we fix this problem".

You are wrong.

I already said that i tried different calibrations.

There´s also a thread about that, but even with other calibration it´s not ok.

I just wanted advice about what to do with this computer...

Do you have any advice?

Or you can just keep trying to shut me down (like others).

But you know what?

I´m not backing down.

I paid almost 1500 USD for this.

I want to know what i bought.

Nits are basic info to know what i bought.

You think it´s too much to ask?

 

[Ploki]

I'm the EU too. And i know all about the consumer laws in the eu, the consumer european directives and etc. But again, and please listen carefully: the reseller says "its apple´s problem" because the product isn´t faulty; Apple says it´s resellers problem.
When i asked about the nits (i asked the reseller about it, and i asked 3 applecare guys also), no one gave me the info.
How could i know the specs before buying?

If you are in the EU, you can return a product within 14 days - NO QUESTION ASKED.
If reseller refuses you can report him to any consumer protection authority.

14-days is minimum across EU.

 

[Joe Cookie]

If you are in the EU, you can return a product within 14 days - NO QUESTION ASKED.
If reseller refuses you can report him to any consumer protection authority.

14-days is minimum across EU.

Not true.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don't work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online (ONLINE) or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

If you buy it on a store, you need to prove it´s faulty.

But how can i prove it's faulty if i don´t have the nits parameters?

I tried to return it but they say its not "faulty" because apple's hardware test say the product is ok.

This is the problem of not telling the consumer all the necessary info.

Would you buy this if you knew it was under 300 nits?

I would never buy it, never.

And now that i bought it and my eyes suffer with low brightness.

Maybe this is the new Apple...

Thank God i have in this forum so many people helping me and being so nice.

Thanks!

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I'm the EU too. And i know all about the consumer laws in the eu, the consumer european directives and etc. But again, and please listen carefully: the reseller says "its apple´s problem" because the product isn´t faulty; Apple says it´s resellers problem.

I heard you. But Apple's return policy in the EU is: 'You can return the product within 2 weeks, no questions asked.'. That means even if there is nothing wrong with the product or you just chanced your mind.

Your reseller is wrong in this case, or Apple is wrong. Put your energy and your anger into resolving the problem with your reseller and/or Apple instead of getting frustrated in a discussion on this forum.

 

[Joe Cookie]

I heard you. But Apple's return policy in the EU is: 'You can return the product within 2 weeks, no questions asked.'. That means even if there is nothing wrong with the product or you just chanced your mind.

Your reseller is wrong in this case, or Apple is wrong. Put your energy and your anger into resolving the problem with your reseller and/or Apple instead of getting frustrated in a discussion on this forum.

Not true. Check the laws. I checked them.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online (ONLINE) or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Not true. Check the laws. I checked them.

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online (ONLINE) or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.

Yes, but (in the Netherlands at least) Apple has it's own return policy which trumps the EU laws. Check Apple's return policy in your country. Also you know now from all kinds of sources that your MacBook Air has a 300 nits specification. If you can prove that your MacBook Air is far below that you also have a point.

 

[Mainsail]

It's a bummer that you got a computer that is not working for you. When I make a big purchase, it can be very disappointing if it does not meet my expectations.

I think everyone is suggesting that you return the computer and just move on to something that is more to your liking, but you believe this remedy is not possible. Based upon what we understand about return policies in most western countries, there are two possibilities here:

1. The Reseller and/or Apple are violating the law and not honoring the return policy
2. You are outside of the timeframe for returning your computer

In case #1, it seems like you should have remedy via a consumer protection service or agency, since the seller would simply be violating the law.

In case #2, it is all on you....sorry. Forget about the "Nits" on the web page. That's irrelevant. If you found the screen unsatisfactory (too dim, headaches, etc..) in actual use, you should have returned within the period allowed.

There is a third possibility here, but I hate to say it. It might be that you found the screen satisfactory until you read the detailed specs (300 Nits) and decided that the lower specs (in and of themselves) bothered you. So, it wasn't the actual use that caused the problem, but the spec which has tainted your perception of the product and created dissatisfaction. Unfortunately, if the 14 day return period expired, you are basically screwed. But, in truth, that is still on you.

 

[Joe Cookie]

It's a bummer that you got a computer that is not working for you. When I make a big purchase, it can be very disappointing if it does not meet my expectations.

I think everyone is suggesting that you return the computer and just move on to something that is more to your liking, but you believe this remedy is not possible. Based upon what we understand about return policies in most western countries, there are two possibilities here:

1. The Reseller and/or Apple are violating the law and not honoring the return policy
2. You are outside of the timeframe for returning your computer

In case #1, it seems like you should have remedy via a consumer protection service or agency, since the seller would simply be violating the law.

In case #2, it is all on you....sorry. Forget about the "Nits" on the web page. That's irrelevant. If you found the screen unsatisfactory (too dim, headaches, etc..) in actual use, you should have returned within the period allowed.

There is a third possibility here, but I hate to say it. It might be that you found the screen satisfactory until you read the detailed specs (300 Nits) and decided that the lower specs (in and of themselves) bothered you. So, it wasn't the actual use that caused the problem, but the specs which has tainted your perception of the product and created dissatisfaction. Unfortunately, if the 14 day return period expired, you are basically screwed. But, in truth, that is really on you.

I bought this computer last Sunday, and started to work on it. Sunday and Monday i noticed my eyes were hurting and started to get bloody/strained eyes. it continued the next day.

I tried to return only 3 days after the purchase.

Today it´s only 7 days after the purchase.

The reseller told me i had to prove the product was faulty, because the EU Law only allows 14 days "no questions asked return" if the purchase is made online.

The apple hardware test showed the hardware was "ok".

I already told the story and i´m not going to repeat it.

The question here is when one buys the MBA 2018 can't imagine that the new MBA 2018 is so dim.

And when you see that Apple tells you the nits of the macbook pro, ipad pro, imac pro, etc... and that you only can find the mba nits if you compare it, not if you visit the specs individual page...

And then you see this and understand why the screen is affecting you...

"That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

"While Apple rates the Air's panel as capable of producing 300 nits of brightness, our unit maxed out at 234 nits,which is close to the 247-nit Spectre 13 and less than the 317-nit premium-notebook average. We found brighter screens in the XPS 13 (372 nits at 1080p, 415 nits at 4K), the Surface Laptop 2 (321 nits) and the MateBook X Pro (458)."

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-2018


Thanks for your help.

 

[glycerine00]

@Joe Cookie What country do you live in and what store did you buy it from? Did you buy the product in store or online?

 

[Joe Cookie]

@Joe Cookie What country do you live in and what store did you buy it from? Did you buy the product in store or online?

Already answered this: eu country, eu laws, major french retail chain, apple reseller, with dedicated staff to apple products and those classic apple desks and white walls, and bought in store.
Thanks for your help. I tried, i tried to return.
Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.
If you bought a good or a service online (ONLINE) or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.
Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.
Read the story. Thanks.

 

[Mainsail]

OP, that sucks. In the US, you can return no questions asked within 14 days regardless of online or in store purchase. Are you sure the Reseller is correct about this? It doesn’t seem logical or fair that consumer protection laws would be set up this way.

Never mind just saw your response above. Sucks!

 

[Kraizelburg]

I wanna add that here in Spain returns of Apple products sold by resellers are only considered if the Apple product is completely sealed, if they have been opened, configured or whatever the reseller will refuse to accept the return.

On the other hand returns for whatever reason are accepted in purchases made in official Apple stores.
I had this doubt when I wanted to purchase the new MBA in Media Markt which is a big german store and they told me literally; "for apple products returns are only accepted within 14 days and not opened box otherwise Only accepted if the product is faulty"

Also I wanna mention this only happens with Apple not any other brands like Dell, Lenovo, Asus, etc.

 

[Joe Cookie]

I wanna add that here in Spain returns of Apple products sold by resellers are only considered if the Apple product is completely sealed, if they have been opened, configured or whatever the reseller will refuse to accept the return.

On the other hand returns for whatever reason are accepted in purchases made in official Apple stores.
I had this doubt when I wanted to purchase the new MBA in Media Markt which is a big german store and they told me literally; "for apple products returns are only accepted within 14 days and not opened box otherwise Only accepted if the product is faulty"

Also I wanna mention this only happens with Apple not any other brands like Dell, Lenovo, Asus, etc.

This is 100% correct and exactly what happened to me. Thanks for the support.

 

[Kraizelburg]

This is 100% correct and exactly what happened to me. Thanks for the support.

The reseller told me that apple refuses to accept products that are already opened so "the reseller" have to deal with that product as they can't return it to apple again.

As I mentioned this only happens with third party sellers or authorized apple sellers but purchases made in official apple store.

 

[Joe Cookie]

The reseller told me that apple refuses to accept products that are already opened so "the reseller" have to deal with that product as they can't return it to apple again.

As I mentioned this only happens with third party sellers or authorized apple sellers but purchases made in official apple store.

I can confirm this, this is exactly what they told me.

They told me "Apple doesn't accept them back" because they are now "resellers products" because Apple sold "those products to them".

Its not Apple's problem anymore...they said.

And when i asked Apple about the "nits" because i needed the parameter to find out if i have a "faulty mac" (the only way to return it to the reseller), 3 different Apple guys told me "we don´t know" or "we don´t have that info".

When i went and did the MBA hardware check at the Apple authorized center the result was "ok".

So, this is how life goes with the new MBA with these mysterious nits.

This is how all happened to me. Facts.

 

[glycerine00]

Already answered this: eu country, eu laws, major french retail chain, apple reseller, with dedicated staff to apple products and those classic apple desks and white walls, and bought in store.
Thanks for your help. I tried, i tried to return.
Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or don´t work as advertised.
If you bought a good or a service online (ONLINE) or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.
Only buying it online allows you to return it within 14 days for any reason, no questions asked.
Read the story. Thanks.

Is it just me or are you being quite rude to people who want to help you? I know you live in a EU country and under EU laws - me too, which I mentioned in my last reply to you that you ignored.

I must have missed that you replied somewhere that you bought it in France, sorry.

And I know about the laws - I think it's pretty much the same where I live (Belgium), as in you can't return an opened good. Maybe if you bought from Apple directly, but if you didn't, who knows. Still don't know where you bought it from, but I guess it doesn't matter as I don't feel you're looking for a resolution as much as a place to vent.

Anyways, I already offered some suggestions in my last reply, but unless you can find professional who can measure the amount of nits on your laptop, I think there aren't many other options as to either live with it or resell.
And you're a 100% sure your headaches and eye strain are from the computer? Does it help if you change resolution or something? (I did, the original was too small)

Also, is there a possibility for you to upgrade to a MacBook Pro? I do feel the store you bought it from might be willing to take it back if you pay the price difference. Yes it sucks that there is no return period in our countries but I feel you are well aware of the law as you have quoted it in multiple posts, so I would suggest that next time you really keep that in mind with a purchase like this.

 

[Joe Cookie]

Is it just me or are you being quite rude to people who want to help you? I know you live in a EU country and under EU laws - me too, which I mentioned in my last reply to you that you ignored.

I must have missed that you replied somewhere that you bought it in France, sorry.

And I know about the laws - I think it's pretty much the same where I live (Belgium), as in you can't return an opened good. Maybe if you bought from Apple directly, but if you didn't, who knows. Still don't know where you bought it from, but I guess it doesn't matter as I don't feel you're looking for a resolution as much as a place to vent.

Anyways, I already offered some suggestions in my last reply, but unless you can find professional who can measure the amount of nits on your laptop, I think there aren't many other options as to either live with it or resell.
And you're a 100% sure your headaches and eye strain are from the computer? Does it help if you change resolution or something? (I did, the original was too small)

Also, is there a possibility for you to upgrade to a MacBook Pro? I do feel the store you bought it from might be willing to take it back if you pay the price difference. Yes it sucks that there is no return period in our countries but I feel you are well aware of the law as you have quoted it in multiple posts, so I would suggest that next time you really keep that in mind with a purchase like this.

If you notice, i thanked everybody that tried to help me.
Hey sorry for being stuck with a 1500 USD computer with very dim screen.
Guess i have to learn to "live with it"!
Sorry!

 

[glycerine00]

it´s just you.
If you notice, i thanked everybody that tried to help me.
Hey sorry for being stucked with a 1500 USD computer with very dim screen.
Guess i have to learn to "live with it"!
Sorry!

Your anger towards me isn't going to help you any further, but hey, at least it takes your mind off from your computer.
Considering you aren't answering my questions, I wish you luck with finding a solution that works for you and that you are happy with.

I didn't mean the "learn to live with it" in a malicious way btw, but there aren't very many other options available it seems. If within your means, I would try to exchange it in the store and pay some extra money for a Pro / See if you can find out the actual nits and find out if it's defective / try to resell it (as in my original reply, it might actually be fine for other but just not what you're looking for - doesn't mean you're selling people a defective item)

 

[Joe Cookie]

Your anger towards me isn't going to help you any further, but hey, at least it takes your mind off from your computer.
Considering you aren't answering my questions, I wish you luck with finding a solution that works for you and that you are happy with.

I didn't mean the "learn to live with it" in a malicious way btw, but there aren't very many other options available it seems. If within your means, I would try to exchange it in the store and pay some extra money for a Pro / See if you can find out the actual nits and find out if it's defective / try to resell it (as in my original reply, it might actually be fine for other but just not what you're looking for - doesn't mean you're selling people a defective item)

I will not sell a computer with this problem to another person.

Like Steve Jobs said, "think different".

To pass the "problem" to another person, it´s not the way i handle my problems.

I will probably have to take this to the national courts and to the european consumer information agencies.

And i have zero anger towards you. I dont even know who you are... i cannot have anger towards a "nihil" entity.

I just wanted to know the nits of my macbook air to see if its faulty or if its really that bad.

tks