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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,561
ny somewhere
How droll. 2022 and Monterey miss the boat on some blatant things. This is not suggestion bugs will not exist but to miss what are obvious and large in impact and do little is suspect.

I have a BenQ monitor - PD2700u. This is a decent monitor that is designated at 60 hrtz. Moneterey insist on changing it to 40-60 hrtz which is pure flicker and unusable. Set it back and it reverts again and again. This is akin to the problem with those monitors that have Freesynch or Gsynch which too cannot work properly. Imagine that, people with 400 dollar are great monitors that used to work with MacOS and now are crippled. Where is the fix by Apple? Tell me how lovely things are and only a few are impacted. Question is, what are any* impacted and if so, where is the fast fix as we are not talking pennies here. Other issues for other people with external drives as well that used to work and now fail. These are serious matters for many and yet Apple drops the ball. C'mon share with us just how its okay and bugs happen and other nonsense that should predicate everyone who has an issue shutting up.
i don't think you're posting enough. 🤔

people who experience bugs, or issues, should come here for discussion and help. and you yourself would benefit from starting a thread with the specific problem(s) you're experiencing... to get help.

being combative, or ranting endlessly... accomplishes nothing.
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
fisherking - what is the name of this topic? If I opt to respond to those who chide those who bring up issues or refer to the notion of Apple's own boast of plug n play - this would be the forum. However, I would certainly agree that problem solving has greater value and in turn, those that offered insight and suggestions were thanked and acknowledged. Anything else?
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,561
ny somewhere
fisherking - what is the name of this topic? If I opt to respond to those who chide those who bring up issues or refer to the notion of Apple's own boast of plug n play - this would be the forum. However, I would certainly agree that problem solving has greater value and in turn, those that offered insight and suggestions were thanked and acknowledged. Anything else?
nope. i've said all i needed to say. hopefully, you feel the same...
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
Have you tried deleting the com.apple.windowserver.displays.plist preference file (followed by an immediate restart) in the /Library/Preferences folder?

I also had a similar problem with the monitor sync constantly switching from 60Hz fixed to 40-60Hz variable. I deleted the above preference file and haven't had a problem since. However, that deletion also coincided with a Monterey update, so that may have been the actual fix rather than deleting the preference file.

Incidentally, if I encounter any flakiness, my first step is to delete all the cache files in /Library/Caches and /Users/username/Library/Caches (followed by a restart).
Yesterday I deleted the plist hours ago and it is holding at 60hrtz. I wanted to get back to you after a long enough period to see if it holds. If anything changes, I'll post back again to you. Again, thank you.
 
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exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
1,952
I was remarking to their own original comments about their hardware and software (pre Intel days)... get over yourself.
Pre Intel days Mac Hardware and software had issues too.
Here is the much beloved PowerBook G4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4

They had bad displays and weak hinges and display cable problems.

We often forget the issues and rightfully so. I don't mean to argue or anything like that. It's just that hardware and software will have issues no matter what era.



1652657074932.png
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
Pre Intel days Mac Hardware and software had issues too.
Here is the much beloved PowerBook G4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4

They had bad displays and weak hinges and display cable problems.

We often forget the issues and rightfully so. I don't mean to argue or anything like that. It's just that hardware and software will have issues no matter what era.



View attachment 2005392
Spice, the topic really was more about software and there were problems then, and certainly various hardware challenges but in 2022, an OS that has blatant issues where they should not exist is rather curious and certainly suspect when the remedies either come later or not at all.

OS issues pre Intel were varied and care was taken before releases to iron out all serious issues (more likely due to the fact internet access was not easily acquired back when by typical Mac users).

I don't defend Apple but memory and peripheral connection issues of this sort is well, something that should have been of the past and not seen today or at least not allowed to continue without a real fix.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,561
ny somewhere
Spice, the topic really was more about software and there were problems then, and certainly various hardware challenges but in 2022, an OS that has blatant issues where they should not exist is rather curious and certainly suspect when the remedies either come later or not at all.

OS issues pre Intel were varied and care was taken before releases to iron out all serious issues (more likely due to the fact internet access was not easily acquired back when by typical Mac users).

I don't defend Apple but memory and peripheral connection issues of this sort is well, something that should have been of the past and not seen today or at least not allowed to continue without a real fix.
the OS has issues, like all versions of OS X before it. why is this so hard to grasp?

lots of us are running monterey without issue (or, to be fair, without serious issues), just as we did in every OS before it.

tech gets more complicated all the time, not simpler. so, not sure how issues with memory and peripherals would remain in the past. this is how it goes, with deeper tech, more options, more functionality, more peripherals... it's 'moving forward'.
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
the OS has issues, like all versions of OS X before it. why is this so hard to grasp?

lots of us are running monterey without issue (or, to be fair, without serious issues), just as we did in every OS before it.

tech gets more complicated all the time, not simpler. so, not sure how issues with memory and peripherals would remain in the past. this is how it goes, with deeper tech, more options, more functionality, more peripherals... it's 'moving forward'.
There is nothing hard to grasp here. In fact, it is rather easy to grasp the notion that Apple put out an OS that can't handle (well) some things that one would consider items that should be a non-issue. Do you find that hard to grasp? You go ahead and take the last word as you seem to need it. I will stand by my* disappointment that sits in a forum thread about disappointment (and base it on the OS/M1) rather than the lackluster attempts to excuse the OS mishaps.
 
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jcscol

macrumors regular
Sep 26, 2018
160
85
Yesterday I deleted the plist hours ago and it is holding at 60hrtz. I wanted to get back to you after a long enough period to see if it holds. If anything changes, I'll post back again to you. Again, thank you.
That's good to hear, let's hope it sticks! Thanks for letting us know.
J
 
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StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,133
2,269
Yesterday I deleted the plist hours ago and it is holding at 60hrtz. I wanted to get back to you after a long enough period to see if it holds. If anything changes, I'll post back again to you. Again, thank you.
I could be wrong, but if those preferences are in the user library, that’s why a new user account with fresh preferences is a good way to troubleshoot nagging issues.

It reminds me of the old Mac OS days watching extensions load at the bottom of the boot screen, and having to play musical chairs disabling various extensions until you found the one that was corrupt or the two that conflicted with each other. It was easiest to disable all of them first to see if the problem went away, and then start enabling them one at a time.
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
I could be wrong, but if those preferences are in the user library, that’s why a new user account with fresh preferences is a good way to troubleshoot nagging issues.

It reminds me of the old Mac OS days watching extensions load at the bottom of the boot screen, and having to play musical chairs disabling various extensions until you found the one that was corrupt or the two that conflicted with each other.
Just as an aside, Of all the operating systems I have dealt with, the two that caused the least issue for me were DOS v 3 and 5 and my favourite OS - IBM OS/2. Apple using BSD as its starting point was a nice move and unsure if the direction it went didn't have a few paths that should have been rethought.
 
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StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,133
2,269
Just as an aside, Of all the operating systems I have dealt with, the two that caused the least issue for me were DOS v 3 and 5 and my favourite OS - IBM OS/2. Apple using BSD as its starting point was a nice move and unsure if the direction it went didn't have a few paths that should have been rethought.
Your earlier point about more care bring taken in the past to ship software with as few bugs as possible is valid. Computer operating systems aside, I remember playing early Atari 1600 games on cartridge, and since there were no software download patches available, a show-stopping bug could kill a software title. The same was true with the Nintendo 64 fifteen years later, but this week I bought Nintendo Switch Sports with a pre-release software update required before I could launch the game.

As a fan of Nintendo, I don‘t think they’ve gotten lazier or care less about quality, but I do think increased complexity of modern software, along with the ability to patch bugs after release, makes testing more resource intensive from a business standpoint. Meaning that at some point end users became the last step in QA. The expense and delay of completely testing, catching, and squashing every single bug costs more than releasing software in a “good enough“ state and updating it after the fact.

Apple seems to be selling more Macs than ever (or at least generating more revenue which I assume equates to units sold). Since all that hardware is shipping with Monterey, I hope it means Apple is also devoting more resources to the software that runs their Macs. I think it’s helpful for us as end users to discuss our issues and report bugs to Apple. If enough people report a bug, it’s going to get on Apple’s radar. I think the number of reports probably dictates how high a priority it becomes to Apple.
 

phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
Your earlier point about more care bring taken in the past to ship software with as few bugs as possible is valid. Computer operating systems aside, I remember playing early Atari 1600 games on cartridge, and since there were no software download patches available, a show-stopping bug could kill a software title. The same was true with the Nintendo 64 fifteen years later, but this week I bought Nintendo Switch Sports with a pre-release software update required before I could launch the game.

As a fan of Nintendo, I don‘t think they’ve gotten lazier or care less about quality, but I do think increased complexity of modern software, along with the ability to patch bugs after release, makes testing more resource intensive from a business standpoint. Meaning that at some point end users became the last step in QA. The expense and delay of completely testing, catching, and squashing every single bug costs more than releasing software in a “good enough“ state and updating it after the fact.

Apple seems to be selling more Macs than ever (or at least generating more revenue which I assume equates to units sold). Since all that hardware is shipping with Monterey, I hope it means Apple is also devoting more resources to the software that runs their Macs. I think it’s helpful for us as end users to discuss our issues and report bugs to Apple. If enough people report a bug, it’s going to get on Apple’s radar. I think the number of reports probably dictates how high a priority it becomes to Apple.
Yes, things are certainly more complex and with that, the permutations with respect to errors and bugs do increase substantially. My take is a bit different and stems from how programming itself has changed over the years where truly clean code is a rare commodity. Lots of bloat out there and we see that with Windows from early on. BSD to OSX and moving forward was bound too, to have some bloat due to the nature of both original Unix-like design/behavior and Intel/AMD instruction sets. Perhaps one of the most difficult items is the notion of some sort of standards that really are universal which would help greatly but also hinder advancement. While I am not much for overly proprietary systems and software, it does have, of course, its advantages. After seeing your comment on Nintendo, I certainly had to smile and recall those days. Then again, I recall when forums like these only showed up on BBS systems.
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
850
515
Pre Intel days Mac Hardware and software had issues too.
Here is the much beloved PowerBook G4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4

They had bad displays and weak hinges and display cable problems.

We often forget the issues and rightfully so. I don't mean to argue or anything like that. It's just that hardware and software will have issues no matter what era.



View attachment 2005392

The elephant in the room full of issues was of course that it wasn't running Intel-inside. :p
 

StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,133
2,269
Yes, things are certainly more complex and with that, the permutations with respect to errors and bugs do increase substantially. My take is a bit different and stems from how programming itself has changed over the years where truly clean code is a rare commodity. Lots of bloat out there and we see that with Windows from early on. BSD to OSX and moving forward was bound too, to have some bloat due to the nature of both original Unix-like design/behavior and Intel/AMD instruction sets. Perhaps one of the most difficult items is the notion of some sort of standards that really are universal which would help greatly but also hinder advancement. While I am not much for overly proprietary systems and software, it does have, of course, its advantages. After seeing your comment on Nintendo, I certainly had to smile and recall those days. Then again, I recall when forums like these only showed up on BBS systems.
Probably going off topic, but my first non-console games were BASIC programs printed in magazines that you would copy line by line, and then spend more time trying to find your mistakes than actually playing the game — or find out in a correction in the next edition a month later that there was a syntax error in line 50.
 

dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
151
238
I could be wrong, but if those preferences are in the user library, that’s why a new user account with fresh preferences is a good way to troubleshoot nagging issues.

It reminds me of the old Mac OS days watching extensions load at the bottom of the boot screen, and having to play musical chairs disabling various extensions until you found the one that was corrupt or the two that conflicted with each other. It was easiest to disable all of them first to see if the problem went away, and then start enabling them one at a time.
Conflict Catcher was our friend back then. Kinda miss the rows of icons at the bottom of the screen during start-up.
 

StoneJack

macrumors 68030
Dec 19, 2009
2,711
1,940
I think Monterey is generally a good update. I never liked Big Sur.
I still use Catalina on my older desktop and Catalina 10.5 is perfect.
As for Monterey, as any OS,
It has some rough things, but that what happens on software side when you have to move a fully new M1 architecture, new hardware, new chips.
At least every big bug is fixed by now, the 12.3.1 update.
I think maybe Apple should stop annual updates and move to slower, but more controlled 18 month pace, testing bugs before release.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,565
New Hampshire
still a good idea to buy a fast external SSD to boot Big Sur on.

On these M1 Machines I am told you need a second working Mac plugged into your dead Mac just to restore it if it goes down and cant boot up. or is that just the new Mac Studio Machines ??

Either case I would not want to get caught with an M1 that cant boot up and no form of instant rescue like an external SSD with a working OS installed to get you out of a real jam.



I have at least one external bootable SSD. I usually have High Sierra but sometimes also have Mojave. I have been meaning to try creating one for my M1 systems. I have an M1 mini running Big Sur - only minor issue is having to reboot it every couple of weeks because of a network issue. I have Monterey on my MacBook Pro. I had not problems reverting to Mojave on an Intel Macbook Pro from Monterey.
 

AltecX

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2016
550
1,391
Philly
I Just want 12.5 to fix the huge issues for most people that remain, they don't see to have addressed many USB/video bugs.

I'm really hoping that 12 is the "learning and fix" OS for M1 and that 13 is much more solid.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,565
New Hampshire
LOL you're joking right? Not sure if this whole post is sarcasm or not.

I did not like Big Sur when it came out but did like it around Summer 2021. It's been super-stable for me outside a few things backported from Monterey. I prefer Big Sur to Monterey but the most stable for me has been Mojave.
 
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dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
151
238
My current system boots in seconds. I don't miss the extension rows, though icons were nice.
It was kinda point of pride at my old job how many extensions you could load at startup without locking up your computer. I'm trying remember how many rows on my 24" Sony Trinitron I had going, think it was something like 2 and 1/2 or something like that. Between extensions and SCSI black magic making any changes required a lot of sacrifices to the computer gods.
 
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