Monterey disappointment

[orionquest]

I think it is unfortunate that people settle for mediocrity. Apple should be anything but mediocre. Honestly, it looks like they took a page out of Gate's book on - promote and sell it now and either fix it or make good on promises later. I wouldn't be having this conversation if I didn't have Apple products which should indicate I prefer them over Micro$oft.

Pretty sure most of the software industry is like this now. The big apps in software are pretty much a solved problem years ago. But it's not in their best interest to fix everything, because they need to keep selling you products, and keep those sales cycles going.

 

[phrehdd]

you know nothing about my mac experience. i've been around since 7.6; did 15 years of (freelance) mac support in nyc. am not a fanboy, just... a fan. and i agree that things could be better... but they're still pretty good right now.

don't discount those who enjoy using their macs, on monterey, in the present. i get that you think it 'used to be better'. i disagree; i think it used to be simpler; but i would not give up monterey, for, say, snow leopard (as good a moment as that was).

i personally welcome progress, change. if you don't, you can always go back to an older mac, an older OS. for the rest of us, there are things to appreciate, and things to fix... and this is a (sometimes) great forum to get (& give) help

Well alas dearie, it seemed you had an issue with someone finding sufficient fault with what is going on to make a comment. No one suggested you shouldn't enjoy Apple products. Anything else?

 

[phrehdd]

Pretty sure most of the software industry is like this now. The big apps in software are pretty much a solved problem years ago. But it's not in their best interest to fix everything, because they need to keep selling you products, and keep those sales cycles going.

Well, Apple absolutely knows how to make hardware that will want people to upgrade in 2-4 years. Do you think that software with challenges is something they at some level planned or consider of value? I am not challenging you at all on this but rather an interesting notion and curious. I do know of some folks that like to leave people dangling and of course, want more... Not sure exactly how some of the needed fixes of Apple OS and such is of value to Apple where the issues are concerned. Admittedly I am a bit jaded having seen the entire lifespan of Microsoft and its nasty way of doing business early on.

 

[mxrider88]

I guess the notion of Apple - "it just works" really meant - it just works to make you pull your hair out. External devices detaching, monitors changing from 60hrtz to "40-60 hrtz," massive consumption of memory that appears not to be released timely and the list goes on. While we can see Apple being slow, it is sadder that the "experts" we see on Youtube have not loudly called out Apple in a manner to get Apple's interest.

Exactly what I have been saying for the last 5 years, spot on. YouTubers are just kissing apple's feet, talking as if every piece of rubbish software was a revolution over the previous one, just hoping apple sends them in a device for a review. I stopped watching YouTubers personally. "Smash the subscribe button" my a**.

My MBA M1 just rebooted while in sleep mode overnight, AGAIN, I had documents open etc, lucky I got in the paranoid habit of saving every 2 minutes otherwise all would be lost.

I find outrageous that they charge for iCloud Drive 200GB and it doesn't even sync.

 

[exoticSpice]

Exactly what I have been saying for the last 5 years, spot on. YouTubers are just kissing apple's feet, talking as if every piece of rubbish software was a revolution over the previous one, just hoping apple sends them in a device for a review. I stopped watching YouTubers personally. "Smash the subscribe button" my a**.

My MBA M1 just rebooted while in sleep mode overnight, AGAIN, I had documents open etc, lucky I got in the paranoid habit of saving every 2 minutes otherwise all would be lost.

I find outrageous that they charge for iCloud Drive 200GB and it doesn't even sync.

Again. Something is WRONG with your Mac. I have a 16" MBP and I have no problems on Monterey like yours.

No rebooting whatsoever. Every piece of software had problems, people have short memories.

macOS, iOS, Android, Windows all have problems. Expecting a 100% bug free OS is a dream. No amount of cussing and pitchforks ain't gonna make tech companies deliver bug-free OS.

Name me one OS that is bug free and I will happily comply that Apple OS can be bug free.

Again, the bug you have might be due your machine issues. If it was on every Mac that has Monterey there would be an uproar as I said my Mac is fine. It's not a universal bug that will be on every Mac or even a certain Mac model.

This was Snow Leopard in 2009 when Steve was CEO and Snow Leopard was supposed to the "best" macOS. Please OS's have been buggy from the start.

Snow Leopard users complain about deletion of files

Documents, photos and music lost.

www.itnews.com.au

iCloud sucks. Use Google Drive.

 

[exoticSpice]

You guys seem to think bug free OS's seem to exist. Even in Steve Jobs time there was massive bugs. People have short memories.
See Snow Leopard:

Snow Leopard users complain about deletion of files

Documents, photos and music lost.

www.itnews.com.au

 

[StudioMacs]

I guess the notion of Apple - "it just works" really meant - it just works to make you pull your hair out. External devices detaching, monitors changing from 60hrtz to "40-60 hrtz," massive consumption of memory that appears not to be released timely and the list goes on. While we can see Apple being slow, it is sadder that the "experts" we see on Youtube have not loudly called out Apple in a manner to get Apple's interest.

Have you created a new user account, rebooted the machine, and logged into the new user to see if the problems persist?

 

[phrehdd]

Have you created a new user account, rebooted the machine, and logged into the new user to see if the problems persist?

First, no I have not done this. Is there some reason to associate the issue with an account or profile on the computer? I admit I don't see how there might be a correlation. Your thoughts (and I will give it a try - should that account have full or limited privilege?).

 

[phrehdd]

Again. Something is WRONG with your Mac. I have a 16" MBP and I have no problems on Monterey like yours.

No rebooting whatsoever. Every piece of software had problems, people have short memories.

macOS, iOS, Android, Windows all have problems. Expecting a 100% bug free OS is a dream. No amount of cussing and pitchforks ain't gonna make tech companies deliver bug-free OS.

Name me one OS that is bug free and I will happily comply that Apple OS can be bug free.

Again, the bug you have might be due your machine issues. If it was on every Mac that has Monterey there would be an uproar as I said my Mac is fine. It's not a universal bug that will be on every Mac or even a certain Mac model.

This was Snow Leopard in 2009 when Steve was CEO and Snow Leopard was supposed to the "best" macOS. Please OS's have been buggy from the start.

Snow Leopard users complain about deletion of files

Documents, photos and music lost.

www.itnews.com.au

iCloud sucks. Use Google Drive.

This isn't about a bug free OS this is about the number and types of bugs that are prevalent. One would think that a system that will not work with (on M1) various typical monitors is more than a simple bug. Unable to continue with consistency attachment to external devices under *normal* and *typical* use and conditions. Seeing all the types of bugs popping up certainly gives reason for people to raise a voice. However, lovely that your system gives you know problems but don't be so dismissive of others who do have challenges are the types and numbers do suggest more is going on.

 

[mi7chy]

Getting a lot more beach balls under Monterey than Big Sur which I only got using SMB file copy. Thinking about going back to Big Sur again but the thought of wasting another half day.

 

[exoticSpice]

This isn't about a bug free OS this is about the number and types of bugs that are prevalent. One would think that a system that will not work with (on M1) various typical monitors is more than a simple bug. Unable to continue with consistency attachment to external devices under *normal* and *typical* use and conditions. Seeing all the types of bugs popping up certainly gives reason for people to raise a voice. However, lovely that your system gives you know problems but don't be so dismissive of others who do have challenges are the types and numbers do suggest more is going on.

I am not being dismissve. What I am saying is millions of Mac users with Monterey don't have the bugs you have. This can sure as I am sure Apple sold over a million of those M1 macs running monterey by now.

"number and types of bugs that are prevalent."

These are in every OS. Go look at Windows forums and Android froums. They are posts about how buggy 11 is and how much worse Android 12 than android 11.

Look, sometimes the bugs might be attributed to your machine. I have no problems with external monitors on my Mac running Monterey and there are millions like me that have no problems. Of course, there will always be problems.

 

[exoticSpice]

Getting a lot more beach balls under Monterey than Big Sur which I only got using SMB file copy. Thinking about going back to Big Sur again but the thought of wasting another half day.

I almost never see a beachball. Only when I push the Mac to the extreme.

But it's always best to make external macOS bootloaders drives of prior macOS versions when bugs do appear that
are annoying.

 

[phrehdd]

I am not being dismissve. What I am saying is millions of Mac users with Monterey don't have the bugs you have. This can sure as I am sure Apple sold over a million of those M1 macs running monterey by now.

"number and types of bugs that are prevalent."

These are in every OS. Go look at Windows forums and Android froums. They are posts about how buggy 11 is and how much worse Android 12 than android 11.

Look, sometimes the bugs might be attributed to your machine. I have no problems with external monitors on my Mac running Monterey and there are millions like me that have no problems. Of course, there will always be problems.

We are not talking Android nor Microsoft Windows. We are talking Apple who has let some very serious issues drag out for months. The issues are significant and the lack of response is as well. This idea that many don't have an issue is nonsense given the amount and type of issues that prevail. Consider monitors that will not work properly yet will with any other system (Windows or earlier OSX), that is just ridiculous. Consider the known issue of memory being monopolized and yet, no management nor proper flushing of memory at times. These are issues we should not be seeing in 2022 given that these type of issue appeared long ago and Apple should put them on their front list for QA not ignore them for later. Entire articles and forums dedicated to the monitor issue. Your comment holds little value to those who have expensive monitors that have been rendered either useless or requiring constant re-configuring to get the right resolution and hrtz.

 

[phrehdd]

First, no I have not done this. Is there some reason to associate the issue with an account or profile on the computer? I admit I don't see how there might be a correlation. Your thoughts (and I will give it a try - should that account have full or limited privilege?).

Have you created a new user account, rebooted the machine, and logged into the new user to see if the problems persist?

I went ahead with two versions - non-admin mode and admin mode new account (including a reboot). Both new accounts had the same issue. Thank you for the suggestion. Best to try it out and see what happens.

 

[phrehdd]

you know nothing about my mac experience. i've been around since 7.6; did 15 years of (freelance) mac support in nyc. am not a fanboy, just... a fan. and i agree that things could be better... but they're still pretty good right now.

don't discount those who enjoy using their macs, on monterey, in the present. i get that you think it 'used to be better'. i disagree; i think it used to be simpler; but i would not give up monterey, for, say, snow leopard (as good a moment as that was).

i personally welcome progress, change. if you don't, you can always go back to an older mac, an older OS. for the rest of us, there are things to appreciate, and things to fix... and this is a (sometimes) great forum to get (& give) help.

How droll. 2022 and Monterey miss the boat on some blatant things. This is not suggestion bugs will not exist but to miss what are obvious and large in impact and do little is suspect.

I have a BenQ monitor - PD2700u. This is a decent monitor that is designated at 60 hrtz. Moneterey insist on changing it to 40-60 hrtz which is pure flicker and unusable. Set it back and it reverts again and again. This is akin to the problem with those monitors that have Freesynch or Gsynch which too cannot work properly. Imagine that, people with 400 dollar are great monitors that used to work with MacOS and now are crippled. Where is the fix by Apple? Tell me how lovely things are and only a few are impacted. Question is, what are any* impacted and if so, where is the fast fix as we are not talking pennies here. Other issues for other people with external drives as well that used to work and now fail. These are serious matters for many and yet Apple drops the ball. C'mon share with us just how its okay and bugs happen and other nonsense that should predicate everyone who has an issue shutting up.

 

[exoticSpice]

We are talking Apple who has let some very serious issues drag out for months. The issues are significant and the lack of response is as well. This idea that many don't have an issue is nonsense given the amount and type of issues that prevail. Consider monitors that will not work properly yet will with any other system (Windows or earlier OSX), that is just ridiculous. Consider the known issue of memory being monopolized and yet, no management nor proper flushing of memory at times. These are issues we should not be seeing in 2022 given that these type of issue appeared long ago and Apple should put them on their front list for QA not ignore them for later. Entire articles and forums dedicated to the monitor issue. Your comment holds little value to those who have expensive monitors that have been rendered either useless or requiring constant re-configuring to get the right resolution and hrtz.

Apple's software like others has always been problem riddled. Even when Jobs was CEO there were serious bugs.


Stop acting like Apple's software was perfect 15 years ago it was not. It's nostalgia clouding common sense.

 

[exoticSpice]

I have a BenQ monitor - PD2700u. This is a decent monitor that is designated at 60 hrtz. Moneterey insist on changing it to 40-60 hrtz which is pure flicker and unusable.

I am using a Dell S2722DGM at 1080P 120HZ and it's been perfect. It's stayed at 120hz no changing at all.

Your monitor has problems with Monterey and Big Sur as well according to this post:

Mac Mini M1 Screen Flicker with Ben Q dis… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

 

[exoticSpice]

Other issues for other people with external drives as well that used to work and now fail.

Explain this futher. How can you be sure than they didn't break for others before but worked for you?

My external drives work fine in macOS 12 but they don't work for you.

Maybe for others the external drivers were broken before 12 but macOS 12 made them work fot those people but for you and "others" have problems now?

See what I am saying the only people that complain are the people that have problems.

We are not talking Android nor Microsoft Windows.

But that is important that is the competition, if the competition has bug free and no serious bugs then Apple is slacking off as you say. Apple and others have checklists of which to fix and QA takes security bugs first.

These people have problems with USB disconnecting on Windows but you don't have that. What I am trying to say different bugs effect different machines. Apple and MS will fixes bugs that effect a large pool of users.

Heres a person on a MS forum on USB problems on Windows 10, I never had this on my PC but this person does.

Redirecting

 

[phrehdd]

Apple's software like others has always been problem riddled. Even when Jobs was CEO there were serious bugs.


Stop acting like Apple's software was perfect 15 years ago it was not. It's nostalgia clouding common sense.

I was remarking to their own original comments about their hardware and software (pre Intel days)... get over yourself.

 

[phrehdd]

I am using a Dell S2722DGM at 1080P 120HZ and it's been perfect. It's stayed at 120hz no changing at all.

Your monitor has problems with Monterey and Big Sur as well according to this post:

Mac Mini M1 Screen Flicker with Ben Q dis… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

I appreciate your response here. I have engage Apple forums and other locations. Let's be aware that this monitor does not* have Freesynch or Gsynch yet the problem is very much akin to those (BenQ) monitor that do have variable as part of the specs. Incidentally, there are other monitors that also have issues as well that are non-BenQ.

 

[phrehdd]

Explain this futher. How can you be sure than they didn't break for others before but worked for you?

My external drives work fine in macOS 12 but they don't work for you.

Maybe for others the external drivers were broken before 12 but macOS 12 made them work fot those people but for you and "others" have problems now?

See what I am saying the only people that complain are the people that have problems.


But that is important that is the competition, if the competition has bug free and no serious bugs then Apple is slacking off as you say. Apple and others have checklists of which to fix and QA takes security bugs first.

These people have problems with USB disconnecting on Windows but you don't have that. What I am trying to say different bugs effect different machines. Apple and MS will fixes bugs that effect a large pool of users.

Heres a person on a MS forum on USB problems on Windows 10, I never had this on my PC but this person does.

Redirecting

I would imagine it would be the people with problems that would "complain" (or identify issues). That is a normal progression. People who put their systems to sleep, or perhaps screen saver or lock screen in some instances, have shared issues of an unresponsive system when trying to get back to work on their computers. Along with this, odd detachment of external drives as indicated by pop up window that the drives were not ejected properly... list goes on.

If these were atypical items, one might hope Apple would attempt to fix them at some time by adding to their QA and fix cueues but alas, these are typical items such as typical external drives (SSD etc.) and use of the system functions listed above is typical.

 

[phrehdd]

Explain this futher. How can you be sure than they didn't break for others before but worked for you?

My external drives work fine in macOS 12 but they don't work for you.

Maybe for others the external drivers were broken before 12 but macOS 12 made them work fot those people but for you and "others" have problems now?

See what I am saying the only people that complain are the people that have problems.


But that is important that is the competition, if the competition has bug free and no serious bugs then Apple is slacking off as you say. Apple and others have checklists of which to fix and QA takes security bugs first.

These people have problems with USB disconnecting on Windows but you don't have that. What I am trying to say different bugs effect different machines. Apple and MS will fixes bugs that effect a large pool of users.

Heres a person on a MS forum on USB problems on Windows 10, I never had this on my PC but this person does.

Redirecting

I can agree there is both relative and absolute discussion with respect to bugs and bug fixes. Relative to other makes and markets and absolute* as a simple measure of whether this company has bugs and how long it takes to resolve them.

 

[jcscol]

Have you tried deleting the com.apple.windowserver.displays.plist preference file (followed by an immediate restart) in the /Library/Preferences folder?

I also had a similar problem with the monitor sync constantly switching from 60Hz fixed to 40-60Hz variable. I deleted the above preference file and haven't had a problem since. However, that deletion also coincided with a Monterey update, so that may have been the actual fix rather than deleting the preference file.

Incidentally, if I encounter any flakiness, my first step is to delete all the cache files in /Library/Caches and /Users/username/Library/Caches (followed by a restart).

 

[StudioMacs]

First, no I have not done this. Is there some reason to associate the issue with an account or profile on the computer? I admit I don't see how there might be a correlation. Your thoughts (and I will give it a try - should that account have full or limited privilege?).

I see from a later reply you tried it out and it didn’t help.

I normally wait to upgrade my OS to the next major version until Apple is demoing the next one at WWDC. That’s the fast track for me these days. I remember staying on 8.6 until I had to make the switch to Puma, which requires OS 9 to dual boot. My own experience with moving to Monterey (which was forced upon me due to buying a Mac Studio) was pretty rough, but a lot of that was the result of migrating a user folder from my laptop that was still running High Sierra, which a new user account solved.

TLDR: Creating a new user and just manually importing what I wanted solved the Monterey strangeness I was experiencing, and I think it’s a pretty good troubleshooting step even if it doesn’t fix an issue.

 

[phrehdd]

Have you tried deleting the com.apple.windowserver.displays.plist preference file (followed by an immediate restart) in the /Library/Preferences folder?

I also had a similar problem with the monitor sync constantly switching from 60Hz fixed to 40-60Hz variable. I deleted the above preference file and haven't had a problem since. However, that deletion also coincided with a Monterey update, so that may have been the actual fix rather than deleting the preference file.

Incidentally, if I encounter any flakiness, my first step is to delete all the cache files in /Library/Caches and /Users/username/Library/Caches (followed by a restart).

I have deleted (now along with reboot) the displays.plist. I'll wait and see what happens and report back. Thank you for the constructive response.