More evidence Apple is abandoning the pro market?

[Bytehoven]

When they discontinue ProRes, they will have abandoned the professional market.

Good point. I remember when the development on the RTX Targa 2000 codec stopped with OS 9 and I had to keep an older machine around for those legacy projects. Same thing has happened with FCPro 7.0.3 causing me to keep a 2011 Mac Mini with 10.7.5 handy for those legacy projects. It would be silly to assume history will not repeat itself yet again.

Well, the release version of FCPX was a revelation for me. ...

Maybe if Apple had hired YODA to do a commercial for FCPro X 1.0, saying "You must un-learn what you have learned!"

I think this is the message Apple has been sending out... build a NEW mouse trap, but necessarily a BETTER mouse trap.

 

[OS6-OSX]

I don't think Apple is abandoning the pro market. That implies a certain amount of intent.

Aperture discontinued-Unable to compete with Adobe's Lightroom?
Color discontinued-Unable to compete with BMD's DaVinci Resolve?
Shake discontinued-Unable to compete with The Foundry's Nuke?
In the example of Shake they had a chance to up date it to 64bit and use 3D with better tools. (ILM, WETA and a couple of others had written their own tools (Macros) to over come this.)
1. Purchased Shake from Santa Monica based Nothing's Real
2. Engineers from Nothing's Real enter Apple
3. Apple decides to based the "new" Shake code name Phenomenon on it's older app Motion! This meant it would no longer be node based!
4. The Nothing's Real engineers exit Apple!
5. The Nothing's Real engineers enter The Foundry and join the NUKE team!

So now Apple has maybe 3 "Pro" items left:
1. The nMP
2. Logic Pro
3. FCPX, which is 3rd string to Avid and Premiere

 

[flat five]

So now Apple has maybe 3 "Pro" items left:
1. The nMP
2. Logic Pro
3. FCPX, which is 3rd string to Avid and Premiere

from what I gather, Apple is very helpful towards third party developers who are coding pro software to use on OS X platform.

idk, I don't really see a big deal whether or not apple is making the applications and branding them apple.
it's more important that they're providing the tools and support for outside developers focusing on specific industries etc.

 

[poematik13]

how many of these threads do we need

 

[OS6-OSX]

how many of these threads do we need

How many would you like?
More evidence Apple is abandoning the pro market?
Apple is abandoning the pro market?
Pro market abandoned by Apple?
Apple is abandoning the pro market? Here is more evidence!

Whether you are "pro" Apple, "anti" Apple or indifferent, there are ways to gather information. Someone may not know what ILM or WETA are so they look it up. Based on that search they run across usable information. And that's partly what forums are about. Information. No matter what form it is in. So just because one can not see it, does not mean it can not be seen!

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

As if you would argue.

No, your statements are self evident. No need to argue when you make the argument for me.
[doublepost=1454021298][/doublepost]

from what I gather, Apple is very helpful towards third party developers who are coding pro software to use on OS X platform.

idk, I don't really see a big deal whether or not apple is making the applications and branding them apple.
it's more important that they're providing the tools and support for outside developers focusing on specific industries etc.

Yea, like a tots magoats relevant 2013 era pro machine sold for full price... because nothing says 'I care' like that does...
[doublepost=1454021582][/doublepost]

how many of these threads do we need

It strikes me as amazing when people complain about a thread topic they feel is well discussed. First, if you find it boring or unnecessary, dont read it. But no, that's not acceptable, because if *Im* not interested in it, apparently no one else should. Decreed!

Second, even if there is ZERO new information in the thread for a given topic (again, easily avoided by not reading it), it ignores that this information may be new and/or interesting to others. So let the new kids interested in the topic have at it. But again, no, that simply won't do. Because decreed.

The fact that the topic gets a lot of attention and discussion, in a DISCUSSION forum, might be indication that many others are happy talking about the topic, and maybe should have their opportunity to enjoy it.

If people don't like the topic. Fair enough. Eject the thread and move on.

 

[ActionableMango]

Case in point. You listed only the things, YOU need. If Nvidia is such important bullet point, Macs are indeed the wrong platform, because Apple ist notoriously switching component manufacturer, when it needs to, from the beginning. That fact is nothing new.
On the other hand, you always could buy a PCIE cage, plug you card in, connect it to Thunderbolt and you're good to go.

1) I did not list only those things I care about. Your post specifically said the cMP design was only more expandable if expandable was defined as a PCIe slot. I listed all the other ways I could think of where the cMP was more expandable (and included PCIe too just to have a full list).

2) I can't think of a single way that the nMP design is more expandable than if Apple had simply updated the cMP design with Ivy Bridge, Thunderbolt, and USB 3.0., but if there is, feel free to provide a list.

3) No you can't just get a Thunderbolt expansion cage, run any old PCIe card in it, and expect everything to work. There are some very limited, specific examples where that will work, generally where the drivers have been re-written to be Thunderbolt-aware. If this were so easy, everybody and their brother would be selling eGPUs. As it is now, it's "sort of" possible but very much a hacker's effort with a lot of gotchas. Many people have been working on this for a very long time in order to make it a turnkey solution, but we aren't there yet.

 

[flat five]

The fact that the topic gets a lot of attention and discussion, in a DISCUSSION forum, might be indication that many others are happy talking about the topic, and maybe should have their opportunity to enjoy it.

it's a fight thread.. that's why it gets a lot of views.

 

[Bubba Satori]

it's a fight thread.. that's why it gets a lot of views.

Your definition of fight must be different than the dictionary's.
This thread seems like a very civil discussion.
Surely disagreement doesn't constitute a fight.

 

[MacVidCards]

As long as everyone posts logical, reasonable facts instead of hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense, we should be fine.

People have eyes and brains, they know BS from facts and don't like it when BS is posted as if it is factual.

A quick look at Disk Utilty in El Cap speaks volumes.

No more RAID support or Permissions Repair but it now includes Emoji support. I'm going to say that is moving AWAY from "Pro" level.

I doubt that a rational person would argue that. It is a fact that anyone can check themselves.

 

[Mago]

As long as everyone posts logical, reasonable facts instead of hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense, we should be fine.

People have eyes and brains, they know BS from facts and don't like it when BS is posted as if it is factual.

A quick look at Disk Utilty in El Cap speaks volumes.

No more RAID support or Permissions Repair but it now includes Emoji support. I'm going to say that is moving AWAY from "Pro" level.

I doubt that a rational person would argue that. It is a fact that anyone can check themselves.

Raid support still in OS/X El Capitan, all you need is to query at apple's tech support, there is how you can access the new DU http://www.macworld.com/article/298...tool-for-storage-devices-gets-a-facelift.html

> diskutil

Sorry has not an launcher Icon, but REAL PROS Know how to use Command Line


Seems this renders moot your argumentation.

 

[Pakaku]

I think at this point, Apple likes to do is see what they can do creatively with their machines. The fact that the tube Mac Pro is a "pro" machine is just a side-effect.

 

[developer13245]

How dare anyone imply Apple is not the pro market!!!!
What part of "iPad Pro" did you miss as their OWNERSHIP of the 'Pro' market???
/sarcasm

Failing miserably while maintaining their smug attitude is effectively the same as abandoning.

The funny part is they are to deaf to realize it.

Everyone I know working in the Apple ecosystem is frustrated with them, but they blatantly don't care.

 

[Daisy81]

As long as everyone posts logical, reasonable facts instead of hyperbole and anecdotal nonsense, we should be fine.

People have eyes and brains, they know BS from facts and don't like it when BS is posted as if it is factual.

A quick look at Disk Utilty in El Cap speaks volumes.

No more RAID support or Permissions Repair but it now includes Emoji support. I'm going to say that is moving AWAY from "Pro" level.

I doubt that a rational person would argue that. It is a fact that anyone can check themselves.

Not to mention it can't fix Fusion drives.
[doublepost=1454035970][/doublepost]

Raid support still in OS/X El Capitan, all you need is to query at apple's tech support, there is how you can access the new DU http://www.macworld.com/article/298...tool-for-storage-devices-gets-a-facelift.html

> diskutil

Sorry has not an launcher Icon, but REAL PROS Know how to use Command Line


Seems this renders moot your argumentation.

Not in the world of it just works. If I wanted Linux like struggle I would not be using the Apple platform at all.

 

[flat five]

Not in the world of it just works.

huh? they removed some things from diskUtility.app because it's now happening automatically as well as only when appropriate.

like- 'it just works' moreso than previous versions of osx

 

[Mago]

things that used to require a few clicks now require Google & the terminal. There is even a way to repair permissions, a few more hoops.

Apple could be ditched the GUI for RAID on many basis I don't know.

But there is an great truth, almost every raid box includes it's own management utility, from WD with its Thunderbolt Books, to Lacie, promise almost every NON-DIY raid vendor includes that, also there are popular raid-like solutions as Drobo requires it's very own utility since Apple only provides Raid 0/1.

 

[MacVidCards]

you don't even know what 'repair permissions' means or does.
but hey. please keep talking about it.
[doublepost=1454042884][/doublepost]

wait. what?

you're asking apple to provide you with a friendly way to do something that's not necessary* in today's osx.
.. and on top of that, trying to insinuate a superior level of intelligence ?


----
[edit]

*
http://www.howtogeek.com/230424/how...ity-protection-on-a-mac-and-why-you-shouldnt/

I'm developing software.

I alter existing kexts.

My permissions get messed up.

I can't fix it as easily as before.

Did I make that simple enough to understand?

I know to many folks, if you don't need to repair permissions on an iPhone it must not really be necessary, but trust me, someone has to actually test things. The Big Boys have to do the work so everyone else can post cute puppy pix at will.

And this further illustrates my point. If you look at the program name it is "Disk Utility"

Let's use an easy to follow, real world example.

You are at work and spill your Big Gulp soda in front of your boss's office door.

When you open the utility closet do you want an artfully designed mop that looks really cool but can't mop floors due to it's cool look? (Boss steps out, falls on his butt, fires you)

Or when you look in the utility closet do you not give a flip what the mop looks like as long as it gets work done? (Boss never knows you spilled giant soda because you cleaned it up before he came out)

It is a UTILITY. It is supposed to GET STUFF DONE, not look pretty so the masses can figure out what to do with it. (It does so very little now)

But insisting that it's reduced functionality is PERFECT since it was Apple Inc. that clipped it's wings is what I mean by twisting logic and reason to make it fit your point. Basically, if Apple bought South America and started using Bulldozers to knock over ALL of the rainforests to make Lovely Designed Burl Wood iPhone cases this sort of "logic" would find a way to excuse this as "The Best of All Possible Worlds" since Apple did it and Cook, Ive, Schiller and the boys do no wrong.

Meanwhile, people with the ability to use logic, reason and critical thought would see the real world. When you double down on illogic rather than admit being in error you flush your credibility for the rest of what you post. (ixx69 warned of this a few times)

But if you really want to go tell a bunch of people what a GREAT thing it is that a utility has been prettied up and had it's power removed, these folks would LOVE to hear it:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/os-x-el-capitans-disk-utility-is-a-mess.1894047/

 

[Xteec]

Normally I wouldn't bother - but Apple leaving disk utility in the current state was a stupid move. I do however think it's a half way move as they progress towards a better version once they implement a modern file system.

I am perfectly comfortable using the command line, but having to type then recheck everything to ensure I don't RAID or secure erase the wrong drives is an unnecessary step. It's not something that I do often so it's not memorised and having to look up man pages for something I used to click-click-click-done is going backwards.

 

[Mago]

I'm developing software.

I alter existing kexts.

My permissions get messed up.

I can't fix it as easily as before.

Did I make that simple enough to understand?

I know to many folks, if you don't need to repair permissions on an iPhone it must not really be necessary, but trust me, someone has to actually test things. The Big Boys have to do the work so everyone else can post cute puppy pix at will.

And this further illustrates my point. If you look at the program name it is "Disk Utility"

Let's use an easy to follow, real world example.

You are at work and spill your Big Gulp soda in front of your boss's office door.

When you open the utility closet do you want an artfully designed mop that looks really cool but can't mop floors due to it's cool look? (Boss steps out, falls on his butt, fires you)

Or when you look in the utility closet do you not give a flip what the mop looks like as long as it gets work done? (Boss never knows you spilled giant soda because you cleaned it up before he came out)

It is a UTILITY. It is supposed to GET STUFF DONE, not look pretty so the masses can figure out what to do with it. (It does so very little now)

But insisting that it's reduced functionality is PERFECT since it was Apple Inc. that clipped it's wings is what I mean by twisting logic and reason to make it fit your point. Basically, if Apple bought South America and started using Bulldozers to knock over ALL of the rainforests to make Lovely Designed Burl Wood iPhone cases this sort of "logic" would find a way to excuse this as "The Best of All Possible Worlds" since Apple did it and Cook, Ive, Schiller and the boys do no wrong.

Meanwhile, people with the ability to use logic, reason and critical thought would see the real world. When you double down on illogic rather than admit being in error you flush your credibility for the rest of what you post. (ixx69 warned of this a few times)

But if you really want to go tell a bunch of people what a GREAT thing it is that a utility has been prettied up and had it's power removed, these folks would LOVE to hear it:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/os-x-el-capitans-disk-utility-is-a-mess.1894047/

This is when I said, wait, wait?

I was a developer and sometimes I do some pin up to few apps developed by my co-workers and as you said sometimes (not so often as you which is also strange) I need to fix permissions.

How do you do repetitive command line tasks quickly? Simple I go to the terminal history (you known cursor ⤴ up) and when I found that not Si cryptic shell invocation of diskutil simply I hit enter and woalah permission fixed on about 3 keystrokes (given I'm developing I use to keep the terminal window along Xcode, if not the case it's a just one click, actually is much faster than thru the old disk util gui, if you are a real developer (which is difficult to believe to me) this and many other productivity tricks should be in your cheat sheet.

 

[JoSch]

Some people will defend/apologize for Apple now matter how hard they have to twist the logic.

Some people will decry Apple no matter how hard they have to twist the logic.

 

[Mago]

Normally I wouldn't bother - but Apple leaving disk utility in the current state was a stupid move. I do however think it's a half way move as they progress towards a better version once they implement a modern file system.

I am perfectly comfortable using the command line, but having to type then recheck everything to ensure I don't RAID or secure erase the wrong drives is an unnecessary step. It's not something that I do often so it's not memorised and having to look up man pages for something I used to click-click-click-done is going backwards.

What I'm discomfort with Apple is when they will implement copy on write file system, since they abandoned ZFS leaved all us waiting, I hope they could adopt Btrfs as new default FS, which implies deep rebuild on disk management tools an also on time machine.

 

[JoSch]

I'm developing software.

Then you should be pretty comfortable with AppleScript.
[doublepost=1454060166][/doublepost]

Have a look in the El Cap thread. I think you will find that the consensus runs to "Apple dumbed down disk utility, removing core functions MAJOR FAIL". Making it all friendlier for the less intelligent is NOT forward progress.

Yes, yes. I also think, that climbing from the trees was wrong and not a forward progress.
And inventing the wheel to make carrying friendlier for the less strong was definitely not a forward progress.

 

[Xteec]

What I'm discomfort with Apple is when they will implement copy on write file system, since they abandoned ZFS leaved all us waiting, I hope they could adopt Btrfs as new default FS, which implies deep rebuild on disk management tools an also on time machine.

Yes working on these types of things is the only logical explanation for me why disk utility is in its current state. So I hope they are too.

 

[maflynn]

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[ibgb]

Yes working on these types of things is the only logical explanation for me why disk utility is in its current state. So I hope they are too.

I don't think they are. They looked into it, decided that HFS+ was good enough. They decided that their devices did not need that much storage and one should buy storage from all the great storage solutions on the market. They focus on what parts of the market they want.