More evidence Apple is abandoning the pro market?

[Mago]

I don't think they are. They looked into it, decided that HFS+ was good enough. They decided that their devices did not need that much storage and one should buy storage from all the great storage solutions on the market. They focus on what parts of the market they want.

Very difficult to speculate here, when you cross the terabyte barrier on a single file as will happen when VR edition comes to mainstream, you imperatively need a copy on write file system with block hashing along with full ECC memory as master original VR products demand (as yet VR is more sensitive to bit riot phenomena than other media).

In general Btrfs or similar file sistem is an must for any future workstation that should deserve any respect. Is not something that am guru simple can said not mainstream do not need copy on write neither hash protection against bit riot, this is actually a need long foreseen (why you think Apple spent millions sponsoring ZFS, the problem is that ZFS become a monster with insane ram requirements impossible to afford by mainstream pc, also some pro workstations do not implemented it, on the other hand here is BTRFS w/p GPL intoxication and now ready for consumers, and while a copy on write file system allways require more resources than other FS is on the reach.

It's very difficult to speculate why Apple removed raid tool GUI and much more to speculate about the new raid or FS.

 

[briloronmacrumo]

Raid support still in OS/X El Capitan, all you need is to query at apple's tech support, there is how you can access the new DU http://www.macworld.com/article/298...tool-for-storage-devices-gets-a-facelift.html

Quoting that article by Glenn Fleishman: "Some Disk Utility stalwarts will also be disappointed that this version omits support for multi-disk or RAID arrays. You’ll have to use the command-line tool or turn to a third-party option".

 

[linuxcooldude]

Quoting that article by Glenn Fleishman: "Some Disk Utility stalwarts will also be disappointed that this version omits support for multi-disk or RAID arrays. You’ll have to use the command-line tool or turn to a third-party option".

Raid is now mostly legacy support on older Mac Pro's. Probably why it was removed from Disk Utility. Its now shifted to external storage with built in raid on the nMP.

 

[Mago]

Raid is now mostly legacy support on older Mac Pro's. Probably why it was removed from Disk Utility. Its now shifted to external storage with built in raid on the nMP.

Most raid boxes comes with its own raid utility, but I doubt Apple would ditch raid support, notwithstanding no Mac is shipped or will be shipped anytime soon with multiple internal hard drives and now that ssd is getting cheaper most mainstream users mors likely will adopt smaller ssd than multiple raid, since mainstream market see raid as a way to speed up systems most people will favor a single smaller ssd for a while.

As you noted raid is moving to be matter of vendors more likely, but I think an OS at least on its kernel should have some support not only fit raid arrays but instead for storage pools, as foresee on btrfs.

 

[rrl]

[MOD NOTE]
A number of posts have been removed

 

[MacVidCards]

This is when I said, wait, wait?

I was a developer and sometimes I do some pin up to few apps developed by my co-workers and as you said sometimes (not so often as you which is also strange) I need to fix permissions.

How do you do repetitive command line tasks quickly? Simple I go to the terminal history (you known cursor ⤴ up) and when I found that not Si cryptic shell invocation of diskutil simply I hit enter and woalah permission fixed on about 3 keystrokes (given I'm developing I use to keep the terminal window along Xcode, if not the case it's a just one click, actually is much faster than thru the old disk util gui, if you are a real developer (which is difficult to believe to me) this and many other productivity tricks should be in your cheat sheet.

Yes, I use "up arrow" all the time to find strings I used before. But all of this wriggling and tortured logic still doesn't explain why ANYONE would call removing basic functions from a utility a "move forward".

It is this constant abuse of logic and reason that causes so much noise here.

There are things that Apple does that have obvious benefits. There is no obvious benefit to removing core functions from utilities meant to get things done. Defending such moves also has no obvious benefit, thus the point I was trying to make.

Why not leave the lose/lose propositions alone and defend the things that have a rational defense?

 

[Mago]

Yes, I use "up arrow" all the time to find strings I used before. But all of this wriggling and tortured logic still doesn't explain why ANYONE would call removing basic functions from a utility a "move forward".

It is this constant abuse of logic and reason that causes so much noise here.

There are things that Apple does that have obvious benefits. There is no obvious benefit to removing core functions from utilities meant to get things done. Defending such moves also has no obvious benefit, thus the point I was trying to make.

Why not leave the lose/lose propositions alone and defend the things that have a rational defense?

1st you expose a nightmare where is not.

2nd we can only speculate on why Apple discontinued raid options from DU gui, possible reasons are an imminent File System upgrade with associated tools, or simple delay from their coders to integrate all these features into the new DU, and simple RAID support only legacy systems (that's explain why some Mac Pro officially can't upgrade to El Capitan) and Apple is leaving raid utility on raid vendor's hands (as every raid box comes with its own management app).

3rd discomfort with some inefficiency (case DU not complete yet) or change from Apple support on legacy Macs (no new Macs have more than a single hard drive, thus raid support is a responsibility of the external raid cage vendors), means in no way Apple is leaving the Pro's market, as much means Apple is not working in things doesn't compete.

4th the thread theme is about Apple leaving the Pro's market, not on how well Apple support legacy Mac.

 

[tuxon86]

1st you expose a nightmare where is not.

2nd we can only speculate on why Apple discontinued raid options from DU gui, possible reasons are an imminent File System upgrade with associated tools, or simple delay from their coders to integrate all these features into the new DU, and simple RAID support only legacy systems (that's explain why some Mac Pro officially can't upgrade to El Capitan) and Apple is leaving raid utility on raid vendor's hands (as every raid box comes with its own management app).

3rd discomfort with some inefficiency (case DU not complete yet) or change from Apple support on legacy Macs (no new Macs have more than a single hard drive, thus raid support is a responsibility of the external raid cage vendors), means in no way Apple is leaving the Pro's market, as much means Apple is not working in things doesn't compete.

4th the thread theme is about Apple leaving the Pro's market, not on how well Apple support legacy Mac.

I don't want to piss in your corn flakes, but if a new DU/Filesystem is being developped, why remove the function from the present one? Better yet, why not just do a check on the system ID and activate or deactivate the function depending on the computer being used. Removing functionality from a core OS utility that is still used on computer that need such utility is a bit dumb.

 

[Bytehoven]

I don't want to piss in your corn flakes, but if a new DU/Filesystem is being developped, why remove the function from the present one? Better yet, why not just do a check on the system ID and activate or deactivate the function depending on the computer being used. Removing functionality from a core OS utility that is still used on computer that need such utility is a bit dumb.

Unfortunately... this would not be the 1st time Apple has removed a function or abandoned support of software/hardware before the replacement was ready for prime time. Maybe it's Apple's way of saying we should all just go on holiday until they have their ducks in a row and are ready to support users with their new paradigm. I mean after all, us Apple lemmings should know by now, Apple rolls like that.

 

[Mago]

I don't want to piss in your corn flakes, but if a new DU/Filesystem is being developped, why remove the function from the present one? Better yet, why not just do a check on the system ID and activate or deactivate the function depending on the computer being used. Removing functionality from a core OS utility that is still used on computer that need such utility is a bit dumb.

Actually the functionality still in the core OS (thru command line), the function removed from the GUI as commented maybe due delay from developer team, remember that the DU is all new, or simple Apple didn't want to provide duplicate support on something that's is provided by their respective peripheral vendor's, I personally vote for the delay theory and it will come back at some update.

 

[goMac]

I'm developing software.

I alter existing kexts.

My permissions get messed up.

I can't fix it as easily as before.

Did I make that simple enough to understand?

Yes, I too am confused why Apple removed an option that is totally useless to everyone except for Mr. MacVidCards, who expects monkeying around in someone else's signed kexts with SIP off is totally a use case that Apple needs to spend time supporting.

If you're comfortable with messing with someone else's signed kexts, you probably have the skill level to manually reset the permissions yourself. You could probably even write your own script to do it but what do I know?

 

[linuxcooldude]

Verify/repair permissions is done automatically during system/security updates. But third party apps are not effected however. As far as using repair permissions as a way to fix problems is largely ineffective most of the time anyway.

 

[fuchsdh]

Verify/repair permissions is done automatically during system/security updates. But third party apps are not effected however. As far as using repair permissions as a way to fix problems is largely ineffective most of the time anyway.

Permissions repair is basically zapping the PRAM in OS 9 for me in the realm of troubleshooting. Sure, I did it when I had to troubleshoot problems, but I can't tell you any time I remember it actually solving the issue.

 

[scott.n]

Several times I've resolved system issues by repairing permissions. These usually occurred after migrating a hard drive from one machine to another, or cloning and replacing a drive, etc.

Which of course you can't do anymore, either...

 

[goMac]

Several times I've resolved system issues by repairing permissions. These usually occurred after migrating a hard drive from one machine to another.

Which of course you can't do anymore, either...

Under 10.11 the permissions can't get messed up to begin with unless you disable SIP.

But as others have mentioned, I think people think repair permissions does a lot more than it actually does. In the last ten years I think it fixed something for me once. Most other times it's a placebo.

 

[Mago]

Which of course you can't do anymore, either...

Check the command line for diskutil

 

[scott.n]

Check the command line for diskutil

I was referring to physically changing disk drives (neither easy nor supported nowadays).

Forget for a moment the functionality that's been removed from the Disk Utility app. What's the excuse for not being able to resize the app window?

 

[linuxcooldude]

Under 10.11 the permissions can't get messed up to begin with unless you disable SIP.

But as others have mentioned, I think people think repair permissions does a lot more than it actually does. In the last ten years I think it fixed something for me once. Most other times it's a placebo.

Probably the most recommended fix for anything that ails your Mac. But yeah.

Forget for a moment the functionality that's been removed from the Disk Utility app. What's the excuse for not being able to resize the app window?

Has to be the most unimportant feature of Disk Utility ever.

 

[BB8]

Features get lost and are slowly added back every time Apple revamps one of their applications. I don't really see what it has to do with the pro market.

 

[goMac]

I was referring to physically changing disk drives (neither easy nor supported nowadays).

When swapping disks you pretty much always want to do a ASR clone, which shouldn't have any issues with file permissions (which is what Disk Utility use and still uses on the command line.) DD or other block based cloning works too.

If you did a clone and your permissions went wrong on the other end something was wrong with your clone. Permissions shouldn't magically change if your data was transferred correctly. Permissions could get wonky if you try to do something like clone a home directory from one OS X volume into another, but Repair Permissions wouldn't be able to fix most of that anyway. Repair Permissions only works on files that were installed through the OS X Installer.app, which most people don't know.

 

[MacVidCards]

(no new Macs have more than a single hard drive, thus raid support is a responsibility of the external raid cage vendors

Error #1 My 2014 Mini has 2 drives. Pretty sure iMacs have 2 drives possible. Why type about stuff that you don't know just to defend Apple NO MATTER WHAT.
[doublepost=1454111958][/doublepost]

Check the command line for diskutil

Have you checked it? It's gone. Error #2

There are still ways to do it but if you check (before posting nonsense) you will find it gone.

More defending Apple over something that doesn't improve anything. I ask again, why do the Apple proselytizers feel this overwhelming urge to defend any and everything Apple does, even when there is clearly no ADVANTAGE to this change. It is merely further along the "dumb it down for the lowest common denominator" road that brought us FCPX and the trash can.

 

[tuxon86]

Actually the functionality still in the core OS (thru command line), the function removed from the GUI as commented maybe due delay from developer team, remember that the DU is all new, or simple Apple didn't want to provide duplicate support on something that's is provided by their respective peripheral vendor's, I personally vote for the delay theory and it will come back at some update.

This doesn't make sense... The new utility will replace the existing one so there is no point in removing functionality from the old one.

 

[Mago]

Error #1 My 2014 Mini has 2 drives. Pretty sure iMacs have 2 drives possible. Why type about stuff that you don't know just to defend Apple NO MATTER WHAT.

Mac Mini Server is not on production its Legacy, ALL CURRENT MACS DONT INCLUDE A 2nd STORAGE (FUSION DRIVE ACCOUNT AS A SINGLE STORAGE).

Have you checked it? It's gone. Error #2

There are still ways to do it but if you check (before posting nonsense) you will find it gone.

More defending Apple over something that doesn't improve anything. I ask again, why do the Apple proselytizers feel this overwhelming urge to defend any and everything Apple does, even when there is clearly no ADVANTAGE to this change. It is merely further along the "dumb it down for the lowest common denominator" road that brought us FCPX and the trash can.

diskutil is about Raid, about permission (as you asked for) is:

Verify Permisions

sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --verify --standard-pkgs /

Repair Permissions

sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --repair --standard-pkgs /

Please contact Apple Support from now and thereafter, or at least use google.

This doesn't make sense... The new utility will replace the existing one so there is no point in removing functionality from the old one.

When you update an app you can include or remove any functionality permanent or temporary as result of the system evolution, if Apple don't want to include native multiple disk is logical remove this functionality which eventually will never be used again, if the case is the functionality is not ready or being reviewed a temporary removal is not an ideal scenario but not an uncommon situation, since it affects only a minimal % of the user base which actually is proficient with the alternatives (command line).

Asuming Apple dont want to include certain feature or perpheral configuration, make sense to enforce 3rd party peripheral vendors to provide the required support (as often they do.. to provide custom Raid Control Panels).

I have an LaCie Little Big disk which is an pair of SSD Blade I can configure either as raid 1 or raid 0, also I have an 2Big (the first in Raid 0, the latter on Raid 1), I never opened OS/X Raid tool only LaCie desktop manager, so where is the point?

All this doesn't point out cue on Apple is leaving Pro's Market.

 

[Demigod Mac]

When I tried to repartition my backup drive five ways, the new Disk Utility and its pie-chart interface was so clumsy, unusable and bug-ridden that I gave up and booted from my spare Yosemite USB drive and used the old one. Worked perfectly within minutes. How on Earth did anyone at Apple ever clear this thing for primetime?

Digilloyd says it even better: OS X El Capitan: Disk Utility “designed by morons” design ethic + RAID Support Removed + Wanton Bugs

 

[MacVidCards]

Mac Mini Server is not on production its Legacy, ALL CURRENT MACS DONT INCLUDE A 2nd STORAGE (FUSION DRIVE ACCOUNT AS A SINGLE STORAGE).



diskutil is about Raid, about permission (as you asked for) is:

Verify Permisions

sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --verify --standard-pkgs /

Repair Permissions

sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --repair --standard-pkgs /

Please contact Apple Support from now and thereafter, or at least use google.

When you update an app you can include or remove any functionality permanent or temporary as result of the system evolution, if Apple don't want to include native multiple disk is logical remove this functionality which eventually will never be used again, if the case is the functionality is not ready or being reviewed a temporary removal is not an ideal scenario but not an uncommon situation, since it affects only a minimal % of the user base which actually is proficient with the alternatives (command line).

Asuming Apple dont want to include certain feature or perpheral configuration, make sense to enforce 3rd party peripheral vendors to provide the required support (as often they do.. to provide custom Raid Control Panels).

I have an LaCie Little Big disk which is an pair of SSD Blade I can configure either as raid 1 or raid 0, also I have an 2Big (the first in Raid 0, the latter on Raid 1), I never opened OS/X Raid tool only LaCie desktop manager, so where is the point?

All this doesn't point out cue on Apple is leaving Pro's Market.

Got a hard time with "whoops, I was wrong"?

Why does 2 drives in a Mac = Fusion?

What is fusion if you aren't speaking Apple PR ?

It's 2 drives.

In a Mac.

Shipping today.

I choose to format mine as 2 separate drives instead of drinking the fusion kool aid.

Time to stop seeing the world through Apple colored glasses.

My 2014 Mini (same as shipped today) has 2 separate drives.

Please try to think outside the Apple box. It will free you from needlessly apologizing for things like castrated utilities and castrated computers.

Your bias is showing.
[doublepost=1454144770][/doublepost]

When I tried to repartition my backup drive five ways, the new Disk Utility and its pie-chart interface was so clumsy, unusable and bug-ridden that I gave up and booted from my spare Yosemite USB drive and used the old one. Worked perfectly within minutes. How on Earth did anyone at Apple ever clear this thing for primetime?

Digilloyd says it even better: OS X El Capitan: Disk Utility “designed by morons” design ethic + RAID Support Removed + Wanton Bugs

And yet a team of afficianados are defending it with impassioned attempts at...something. There is no rational defense yet they keep typing.

I have yet to hear anyone justify this as an improvement or justify it in any way other than "Apple did it, it must be right"

They removed functionality guys, not a step in the "pro" direction.