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Are you kidding???

Properly working RAID
Working support for mixed OSX/Win environments / directory services / SMB
System stability of SL
Expose / spaces

Are these enough or should I continue...

For the reasons you mentioned, I should ask if you are kidding.

My Mac Pro works fine with my windows machines on my network. I can even print from windows to my printer hooked up to my mac.

Lion is just as stable for me then Snow Leopard and thats on 4 different Mac Machines.

I don't consider Expose & Spaces a pro feature. Even before they changed it in Lion. Its a feature you either use or don't use.
 
I have an Areca RAID card in my system, so I'll really need to ensure there are no issues with that in Mountain Lion. The problems I heard from RAID users on Lion have kept me away, frankly. I'm feeling like I can't stay on SL forever, and need to keep an open mind about "iOS-ification" and whatnot. As mentioned, I don't have to use all the extra junk they dump into each new version if I don't like it. It just has to be completely stable, like 10.6 has been for me for a while now.
 
Q: Are MacPros screwed?
A: Not the ones for which the upgrade is officially denied. They are spared i[h]OSing. They can begin the reversion to the last true Pro OS - SL 10.6.7. However, those with newer systems can take their screwings to new heights with Mountain L[ION]ying. A Mac Pro isn't, nor should it be, a glorified iDevice. I'm not in favoring of dumbing down my Pro.
 
List of "pro" level features removed from the OS plz.

Terms like "stability," "workflow." "dependability," "tangibility," "predictability," "interoperability," "follow through," and "appropriateness" come to my mind when I think about how disappointed in Apple I have become with it since it shed "Computer" from its name to became the mobile authority.

The most important OS feature to my business is stability. Snow Leopard 10.6.7 has it in spades. For example, the initial Lion 10.7 install killed my native power management and made my Mac Pro 5.1 run hotter. Hotter means less stable.

Dependability matters. For example, the recent Lion 10.7.3 install killed my DHCP on my Mac Pro 5.1. "Well, why don't you just do a reinstall of it?" Because the reinstall must come across the internet, but because installation disks are so old school now and without DHCP working I can't get on the internet. New school should teach history. History reveals that to pick onesself up by the bootstrap it is easiest to begin by grabbing the physical bootstrap to begin this process, in this case the old school boot CD/DVD. Tangibility is lacking.

The next most important feature is smooth workflow. A Mac Pro is not a Macbook Pro. For example, Lion removed from the Mac Pro arrow scrolling precision unless perhaps you have a laptop or perhaps buy Apple's new scrolling device. Moreover, all of Lion's swiping gestures [ http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/ ], perhaps good for those with Macbook Pros like the ones that I have, appear to be to me just an attempt to swipe more dollars from my pocket for features I don't need or cannot use when it comes to my Mac Pros unless I buy another piece of Apple hardware. However, my dissatisfactions with Apple go even further than the OS.

Predictability also matters much. As of yet, there is no official word from Apple about whether there will even be any more Mac Pros.

Furthermore, the iOS app mentality of Apple tends to dumb down core applications that Pros use and limit application interoperability. A Mac Pro is not an iDevice, nor an iMac. Apple "upgraded" Final Cut Pro 7 (that was breaking much ground in Hollywood and elsewhere in movie-making) to iMovie 8 [aka Final Cut "Pro X"] which left out break-the-business features, including no way to get version 7 projects to X and vice versa [and left out multiCam support] until just recently. Moreover, many Pros purchased Macs because Apple bought Shake (at that time one of the premiere video compositing/finishing applications), which Apple upgraded and updated a couple of times then placed it in their closet, with a promise, they made many years ago, that they had something better coming just around the corner. That must have been an humungous corner because there's been no follow through. I have depended more on Shake and Final Cut Pro than I have on all of Lion's new features combined.

In sum, Apple seems to be unable to just leave well enough alone or to distinguish new from better or appropriate. The glitz and popularity of the mobile side (and word "side' even betrays the overwhelming sway that the mobile folks at Apple now have) foretells a shift in priorities at Apple that relegates the Pro user to oblivion. Most telling is the opening page of Mountain Lion's sneak preview, "Mac OS X - Mountain Lion" "With all-new features inspired by iPad, OS X Mountain makes the Mac better than ever." What is appropriate for the iPad [I do own one] isn't necessarily appropriate or better for the desktop. "Apple, please don't fix your desktop OS, like you did in Lion and like you fixed Final Cut Pro and like you said that you'd do, but haven't, to Shake, if it ain't broke."

Few "Pros" will now build their livelihood around Apple or the Mac Pro, being fully aware that to Apple the Pro user is to be treated like Henny Youngman joked that he felt - "I just get no respect."
 
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Terms like "stability," "workflow." "dependability," "tangibility," "predictability," "interoperability," "follow through," and "appropriateness" come to my mind when I think about how disappointed in Apple I have become with it since it shed "Computer" from its name to became the mobile authority.

The most important OS feature to my business is stability. Snow Leopard 10.6.7 has it in spades. For example, the initial Lion 10.7 install killed my native power management and made my Mac Pro 5.1 run hotter. Hotter means less stable.

Dependability matters. For example, the recent Lion 10.7.3 install killed my DHCP on my Mac Pro 5.1. "Well, why don't you just do a reinstall of it?" Because the reinstall must come across the internet, but because installation disks are so old school now and without DHCP working I can't get on the internet. New school should teach history. History reveals that to pick onesself up by the bootstrap it is easiest to begin by grabbing the physical bootstrap to begin this process, in this case the old school boot CD/DVD. Tangibility is lacking.

The next most important feature is smooth workflow. A Mac Pro is not a Macbook Pro. For example, Lion removed from the Mac Pro arrow scrolling precision unless perhaps you have a laptop or perhaps buy Apple's new scrolling device. Moreover, all of Lion's swiping gestures [ http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/ ], perhaps good for those with Macbook Pros like the ones that I have, appear to be to me just an attempt to swipe more dollars from my pocket for features I don't need or cannot use when it comes to my Mac Pros unless I buy another piece of Apple hardware. However, my dissatisfactions with Apple go even further than the OS.

Predictability also matters much. As of yet, there is no official word from Apple about whether there will even be any more Mac Pros.

Furthermore, the iOS app mentality of Apple tends to dumb down core applications that Pros use and limit application interoperability. A Mac Pro is not an iDevice, nor an iMac. Apple "upgraded" Final Cut Pro 7 (that was breaking much ground in Hollywood and elsewhere in movie-making) to iMovie 8 [aka Final Cut "Pro X"] which left out break-the-business features, including no way to get version 7 projects to X and vice versa [and left out multiCam support] until just recently. Moreover, many Pros purchased Macs because Apple bought Shake (at that time one of the premiere video compositing/finishing applications), which Apple upgraded and updated a couple of times then placed it in their closet, with a promise, they made many years ago, that they had something better coming just around the corner. That must have been an humungous corner because there's been no follow through. I have depended more on Shake and Final Cut Pro than I have on all of Lion's new features combined.

In sum, Apple seems to be unable to just leave well enough alone or to distinguish new from better or appropriate. The glitz and popularity of the mobile side (and word "side' even betrays the overwhelming sway that the mobile folks at Apple now have) foretells a shift in priorities at Apple that relegates the Pro user to oblivion. Most telling is the opening page of Mountain Lion's sneak preview, "Mac OS X - Mountain Lion" "With all-new features inspired by iPad, OS X Mountain makes the Mac better than ever." What is appropriate for the iPad [I do own one] isn't necessarily appropriate or better for the desktop. "Apple, please don't fix your desktop OS, like you did in Lion and like you fixed Final Cut Pro and like you said that you'd do, but haven't, to Shake, if it ain't broke."

Few "Pros" will now build their livelihood around Apple or the Mac Pro, being fully aware that to Apple the Pro user is to be treated like Henny Youngman joked that he felt - "I just get no respect."

That is how I see it. Some of you guys wrote that Lion is working for you as a pro users just fine. Not so much for me and I've stated the reasons. We can argue this forever but that is not the point.
What I wanted to point out is, that Apple with Lion and probably with ML as well is leaving pros behind. As simple as that. I do not mind having all these iOS features on my Mac Pro as long as they don't screw the stability, workflow and all the pro features. My Mac Pro is workstation meant to make money. I have my iPhone, iPad and Macbook for all that mobile iOS stuff.

So that please tell me where are we "pros" in Apple's future? I just don't see it. Apple is excellent in marketing. If they really have smallest priority for pros in their biz plan, they will take every opportunity to promote it. Have you seen what ML features Apple promotes? Have you been able to find anything there what might be considered as pro feature like better stability, interoperability in mixed environments, etc?

We can certainly stick with 10.6.7 for now. What I am afraid of is, that we would have to stick with it forever.
 
I have a dual-boot PC for the purpose of separating my 'work' from 'play' computing, but I haven't created a dual-boot Mac yet. With Snow Leopard, it's been fine running work and play in the same boot. Lion and Mountain Lion make me really nervous, however.

Any opinions or suggestions for running a SL/ML dual-boot?

I dual boot so I can make sure every app in my workflow is supported. Thankfully they all are but I haven't taken the upgrade plunge yet. You just have a separate drive and install Lion on it. Its super easy.

Terms like "stability," "workflow." "dependability," "tangibility," "predictability," "interoperability," "follow through," and "appropriateness" come to my mind when I think about how disappointed in Apple I have become with it since it shed "Computer" from its name to became the mobile authority.

And none of those are actual physical issues with the OS.

The most important OS feature to my business is stability. Snow Leopard 10.6.7 has it in spades. For example, the initial Lion 10.7 install killed my native power management and made my Mac Pro 5.1 run hotter. Hotter means less stable.

I have never heard of this issue from anyone, not to mention if usability is so important why would you upgrade to a new OS immediately? Every single new OS has issues that need to be worked out.

Dependability matters. For example, the recent Lion 10.7.3 install killed my DHCP on my Mac Pro 5.1. "Well, why don't you just do a reinstall of it?" Because the reinstall must come across the internet, but because installation disks are so old school now and without DHCP working I can't get on the internet. New school should teach history. History reveals that to pick onesself up by the bootstrap it is easiest to begin by grabbing the physical bootstrap to begin this process, in this case the old school boot CD/DVD. Tangibility is lacking.

I'm sorry I just don't buy this. Your DHCP is ruined from upgrading? Again, I have never heard of a single person with this issue.

The next most important feature is smooth workflow. A Mac Pro is not a Macbook Pro. For example, Lion removed from the Mac Pro arrow scrolling precision unless perhaps you have a laptop or perhaps buy Apple's new scrolling device.

No they didn't, you scroll the same way as before. Mouse wheel, up and down arrows on the keyboard, or grabbing the bar and moving it. No offense but this is grasping at straws.

Moreover, all of Lion's swiping gestures [ http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/ ], perhaps good for those with Macbook Pros like the ones that I have, appear to be to me just an attempt to swipe more dollars from my pocket for features I don't need or cannot use when it comes to my Mac Pros unless I buy another piece of Apple hardware. However, my dissatisfactions with Apple go even further than the OS.

They added a feature that benefits notebook users. How is this a bad thing exactly? Many "pros" have both laptops and desktops.

Predictability also matters much. As of yet, there is no official word from Apple about whether there will even be any more Mac Pros.

Apple NEVER talks about new products. This isn't anything new.

Furthermore, the iOS app mentality of Apple tends to dumb down core applications that Pros use and limit application interoperability. A Mac Pro is not an iDevice, nor an iMac. Apple "upgraded" Final Cut Pro 7 (that was breaking much ground in Hollywood and elsewhere in movie-making) to iMovie 8 [aka Final Cut "Pro X"] which left out break-the-business features, including no way to get version 7 projects to X and vice versa [and left out multiCam support] until just recently. Moreover, many Pros purchased Macs because Apple bought Shake (at that time one of the premiere video compositing/finishing applications), which Apple upgraded and updated a couple of times then placed it in their closet, with a promise, they made many years ago, that they had something better coming just around the corner. That must have been an humungous corner because there's been no follow through. I have depended more on Shake and Final Cut Pro than I have on all of Lion's new features combined.

I agree the way they handled Final Cut was a mistake, and its obvious they realized this after re-releasing 7 for purchase and committing to updates for Final Cut X. That being said its a new product and needs time to mature. Software is insanely complicated to make and a big redesign like that will never go smoothly at first.

In sum, Apple seems to be unable to just leave well enough alone or to distinguish new from better or appropriate. The glitz and popularity of the mobile side (and word "side' even betrays the overwhelming sway that the mobile folks at Apple now have) foretells a shift in priorities at Apple that relegates the Pro user to oblivion. Most telling is the opening page of Mountain Lion's sneak preview, "Mac OS X - Mountain Lion" "With all-new features inspired by iPad, OS X Mountain makes the Mac better than ever." What is appropriate for the iPad [I do own one] isn't necessarily appropriate or better for the desktop. "Apple, please don't fix your desktop OS, like you did in Lion and like you fixed Final Cut Pro and like you said that you'd do, but haven't, to Shake, if it ain't broke."

Few "Pros" will now build their livelihood around Apple or the Mac Pro, being fully aware that to Apple the Pro user is to be treated like Henny Youngman joked that he felt - "I just get no respect."

Then what OS will you go to if Apple isn't "Pro" enough? Windows is doing the exact same thing and not everything runs on Linux.

I know, another thread... However looking at the iOS features of Mountain Lion coming again to Macs, is there even slightest support for professionals in Apple's future?

Anyway, I am happy I bought 2010 Mac Pro. I am good to go for couple of years and have time to think what to do if...

Please explain how adding features that allow better synching between a desktop and a mobile device is unprofessional?

I have yet to hear a good explanation on that. (I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious why people keep insisting its "unprofessional" when its something that professionals can really really use to help keep organized.)

And, not to sound mean but I don't consider anyone that is unable to adapt to a simple change in an operating system a "pro" at anything. Technology changes, anyone claiming to be a pro should be able to adapt their workflow to fit.

If you can't, then you get left behind in the dust.
 
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Please explain how adding features that allow better synching between a desktop and a mobile device is unprofessional?

I have yet to hear a good explanation on that. (I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious why people keep insisting its "unprofessional" when its something that professionals can really really use to help keep organized.)

And, not to sound mean but I don't consider anyone that is unable to adapt to a simple change in an operating system a "pro" at anything. Technology changes, anyone claiming to be a pro should be able to adapt their workflow to fit.

If you can't, then you get left behind in the dust.

I never said that better syncing between desktop and mobile is unprofessional. What i did say is that screwing RAID, mixed environments, etc. is not caring about professional users. I said that making less stable system probably by adding unnecessary features is not professional.

We can adapt, however that is not the point. I stated my opinion, that I do not see Apple's priority for pro users in the future. I just don't see any fit between MacPro and Lion and probably Mountain Lion as well.
 
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What's this? Ah yes, yet another thread where so called "professionals" congregate to see who's been shafted most by Apple.

Look if you don't like where things are going, you can easily move to PC and Windows 7, or Linux if it supports your software. I have a win 7 pc used just for premiere pro CS5.5, I got a MBP for my typography and print design. Use what's best for the job in hand - like a professional would.

I've worked across varied creative fields from video to illustration. I've used OSX 10.4 10.5 10.6 10.7....you know what changed in my ability to complete work? Nothing.

For people who are supposedly pro, you sure do act like children.

Rant Over.
 
man, it's too early on a saturday to actually respond to all the crap in this thread.

The only pro mac users who have a legit software beef with apple right now are FCP Suite users.

Lion works fine. Trust me. I've done Lion rollouts at Hitachi Data Systems, Lucasfilm, and Dolby for over 5000 machines total in the last 6 months or so, all into AD environments using Casper to manage and image the macs. And you know what? It's great! (well, ok, the AD plugin was broken until 10.7.2 came out, I'll give you that. But apple fixed it, and quickly.) Mobileconfig files are a great addition to all the MCX and scripting management tools we already had. Heimdal kerberos seems to be MUCH more likely to work correctly out of the box than MIT was. Filevault 2 actually works, unlike Filevault 1. The new SMB client is fine, and supports more secure authentication methods than the old SAMBA.

Mountain lion adds a nice new security feature (gatekeeper), a BUNCH of new API's for devs, and some iOS apps that should have been in OS X anyway. I see no reason to bitch about it.
 
One of the great things about a Mac Pro is that it's built for serious computer users. I have separate HDs for W7 and Lion so either can run independently without Bootcamp or having to choose OSs with the option key.

I also maintain another HD with SL 10.8 and keep it up to date mail and app-wise just in case something really goes wrong with Lion, also handy for monitor calibration with my out-of-date, primitive GM iOne software. I'll make another HD to fiddle around with when the W8 beta is released.

I'm looking forward to ML. While apparently even more full of a lot of crap than Lion some users report that it is more responsive than Lion. That would be welcome since W7/SL-like performance with Photoshop and Aperture are what I'm really interested in.

Gotta love a Mac Pro!
 
man, it's too early on a saturday to actually respond to all the crap in this thread.

The only pro mac users who have a legit software beef with apple right now are FCP Suite users.

Lion works fine. Trust me. I've done Lion rollouts at Hitachi Data Systems, Lucasfilm, and Dolby for over 5000 machines total in the last 6 months or so, all into AD environments using Casper to manage and image the macs. And you know what? It's great! (well, ok, the AD plugin was broken until 10.7.2 came out, I'll give you that. But apple fixed it, and quickly.) Mobileconfig files are a great addition to all the MCX and scripting management tools we already had. Heimdal kerberos seems to be MUCH more likely to work correctly out of the box than MIT was. Filevault 2 actually works, unlike Filevault 1. The new SMB client is fine, and supports more secure authentication methods than the old SAMBA.

Mountain lion adds a nice new security feature (gatekeeper), a BUNCH of new API's for devs, and some iOS apps that should have been in OS X anyway. I see no reason to bitch about it.
Well, that sounds like great news! Best news I've heard so far, in fact, about Lion. Still think I'll wait until Mountain Lion is stable (10.8.2 or ?) to save time and energy. That way, I only upgrade the OS once.
 
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

As a pro, some of these iOS additions to OS X make me more productive !
 
Terms like "stability," "workflow." "dependability," "tangibility," "predictability," "interoperability," "follow through," and "appropriateness" come to my mind when I think about how disappointed in Apple I have become with it since it shed "Computer" from its name to became the mobile authority.

The most important OS feature to my business is stability. Snow Leopard 10.6.7 has it in spades. For example, the initial Lion 10.7 install killed my native power management and made my Mac Pro 5.1 run hotter. Hotter means less stable.

....

This entire post.

My biggest issue with Lion is not the iOS features. It's stability and dependability. Which is what it lacks.

I've heard Apple's taken people's feedback on this and will be working on this in Mountain Lion. I'm hoping it's more stable. That's my biggest concern, not that Apple added something like Launchpad. For Pro feature stuff, my biggest concern is the software I run on the OS, not the OS itself.

(And the availability of a Mac Pro.)
 
Are you kidding???

Properly working RAID
Working support for mixed OSX/Win environments / directory services / SMB
System stability of SL
Expose / spaces

Are these enough or should I continue...

You should continue.;)
In my experience all of these services are working as expected at the moment with 10.5.8, 10.6.8, 10.7.3. I have plenty mixed environments. All manner of Win client and servers, OS X Client and servers, Linux (all flavors, Red Hat mostly) Who takes care of your network? These all work just fine. I can't speak for a business running 10.7 Server though as that would be a foolish thing to try.
What is wrong with RAID? Again, no problems via HW/SW and multiple host controllers.
Expose and Spaces can be added back via 3rd party apps but I agree they were much better tools than the Launchpad and other stupid "show all windows" grouping rubbish. I guess if my screen dot pitch was like .0001 it would be OK.
 
You should continue.;)
In my experience all of these services are working as expected at the moment with 10.5.8, 10.6.8, 10.7.3. I have plenty mixed environments. All manner of Win client and servers, OS X Client and servers, Linux (all flavors, Red Hat mostly) Who takes care of your network? These all work just fine. I can't speak for a business running 10.7 Server though as that would be a foolish thing to try.
What is wrong with RAID? Again, no problems via HW/SW and multiple host controllers.
Expose and Spaces can be added back via 3rd party apps but I agree they were much better tools than the Launchpad and other stupid "show all windows" grouping rubbish. I guess if my screen dot pitch was like .0001 it would be OK.

I like you being honest and have to admit that 10.7.3 has been improvement in most of these areas I've mentioned. 10.6.7 worked OK. However even 10.7.3 is still not the same as 10.6.7 in respect of stability.
As I've wrote before, I do not mind integrating iOS features into OSX (as I am not forced to use most of them anyway) as long as they do not compromise the overall stability of OSX, which is unfortunately not the case with Lion.
I am not bashing anything and I really wish Mountain Lion will be better on stability than Lion was.
 
What's this? Ah yes, yet another thread where so called "professionals" congregate to see who's been shafted most by Apple.

Look if you don't like where things are going, you can easily move to PC and Windows 7, or Linux if it supports your software. I have a win 7 pc used just for premiere pro CS5.5, I got a MBP for my typography and print design. Use what's best for the job in hand - like a professional would.

I've worked across varied creative fields from video to illustration. I've used OSX 10.4 10.5 10.6 10.7....you know what changed in my ability to complete work? Nothing.

For people who are supposedly pro, you sure do act like children.

Rant Over.


Pretty ignorant. I'm sure your wedding videos look as good in premier pro as FCX, but its a legitimate complaint when we are talking about IT department spends with many zeros attached, planned months in advance, and not a one man band having the option to ebay his MB and buy a HP workstation. The BBC had to rethink a commitment to go all FC and for the new Salford edit facility, move dozens and dozens of seats back to Avid because for 6 months there was no clear info about when basics like multicam editing would be restored, let alone all the other workflow and stability issues.

Moving away from the Final Cut debacle on to worries about the OS, here's a guy who gives good system advice on macs

http://macperformanceguide.com/index_topics.html#LionHairballs
 
I am not a professional but a mere mortal.

It makes perfect sense for Apple to include more iOS features into OSX since that may attract the ipad and iphone customers who own PCs. PCs sales are stalling but Mac sales are increasing so there is good reason for Apple to keep developers on board.

I am unaware of any feature that has been added at the expense of one that somehow makes OSX less professional.
 
I'd also listen to John Gruber's most recent podcast on this. He had a private meeting with Apple this week, and his impression is that Apple is attempting to recommit to Mac users and reassure them that they will not be dropped in favor of iOS. Moving OS X to a yearly upgrade schedule just like iOS is part of that. He also didn't seem convinced coming out of the meeting Apple was planning on dropping the Mac Pro.

(He also said he doesn't have any non-public information that he is not sharing.)

As far as new Mountain Lion features, as a developer who has worked on pro apps I'm very happy. There are a lot of programming features that are great on iOS that I can finally use on Mac. And shockingly, Mountain Lion brings a lot of cool stuff first, stuff I can't even use on iOS yet.
 
I dual boot so I can make sure every app in my workflow is supported. Thankfully they all are but I haven't taken the upgrade plunge yet. You just have a separate drive and install Lion on it. Its super easy.



And none of those are actual physical issues with the OS.



I have never heard of this issue from anyone...
.


Well, now you've heard of this issue from me and others [ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1191740/ ]. What you may not have heard of is no proof of its non-exixtence.

chrono1081 said:
... not to mention if usability is so important why would you upgrade to a new OS immediately? Every single new OS has issues that need to be worked out.

That you assume that I upgraded to a new OS immediately is simply an erroneous assumption. I wouldn't call an upgrade to Lion done in early November 2011 "immediate." Plus, I kept a spare copy of my SL 10.6.7 boot disk, but more on that later.



chrono1081 said:
I'm sorry I just don't buy this. Your DHCP is ruined from upgrading? Again, I have never heard of a single person with this issue.

Just because you hear something for the first time doesn't diminish its truth. DHCP worked to allow me to download the 10.7.3 update and it had worked flawlessly since I purchased my Mac Pro 5.1 shortly after its release. I installed the 10.7.3 update. Immediately after installing the update and rebooting - no internet because DHCP fails. Running Network Diagnostics can't correct the problem. Next I try booting from spare copy of my SL 10.6.7 boot disk. DCHP runs like a champ on SL 10.6.7. By the way that's how I got this reply before your eyes.

chrono1081 said:
No they didn't, you scroll the same way as before. Mouse wheel, up and down arrows on the keyboard, or grabbing the bar and moving it. No offense but this is grasping at straws.

Yes, they did and no, I can't scroll the same way as before. You left out the very option that I was referencing. In System Preferences - Appearances, there is no longer an option to place scroll arrows either ganged together or at the top and bottom as there was in SL 10.6.7 (I always chose - at the top and bottom). Before this option to gang them together, the scroll arrows were at the top and bottom since at least the mid-1980's when I started creating 2D animations on the Mac, the Amiga and the Atari (the scroll arrows were placed the same on all of them). Now there are no scroll arrows (and thus no option for there placement, but if you know how to get them in Lion, please tell me how). I have made and make a good living doing 2d and 3d animations, which create the need to scroll through tens (and at times hundreds) of thousands of files. Eliminating such a scrolling option to a pro like you might seem insignificant, but I respectfully submit that to an old pro like me (I recognize that you could be an old pro too, just better at adaptation) changing a 25+ year way of file management for no-good reason is just more of Apple's newly minted high handedness to iOS hell. It ain't grasping for straws. It pure workflow focused.


chrono1081 said:
They added a feature that benefits notebook users. How is this a bad thing exactly? Many "pros" have both laptops and desktops.

As I said in my post, I own several laptops and Mac Pros. So, for my laptops they may be good things. Apple - the seeming master of interface design -should have given me an easy option to turn off all of this stuff on my non-track pad equipped Mac Pros. But now I have to contend with accidentally pressing keys which used to do something else, now triggering a state for which I have no use or interest and spending time learning how to exit from somewhere I never planned to go - not a good thing, just frustrating.


chrono1081 said:
Apple NEVER talks about new products. This isn't anything new.

The Mac Pro isn't exactly what I'd would call a new product. But regardless, there have been revelations that Apple has considered (or is considering) placing future Mac Pros on the chopping block. "NEVER" is a strong word that old age and experiences have taught me to be cautious in using. Moreover, the times and circumstances appear to be changing faster than in the past and Apple's failure to quell such rumors or otherwise informationally manage such revelations could backfire.



chrono1081 said:
I agree the way they handled Final Cut was a mistake, and its obvious they realized this after re-releasing 7 for purchase and committing to updates for Final Cut X. That being said its a new product and needs time to mature. Software is insanely complicated to make and a big redesign like that will never go smoothly at first.

Nuf said.

chrono1081 said:
Then what OS will you go to if Apple isn't "Pro" enough? Windows is doing the exact same thing and not everything runs on Linux.

I could be wrong, but I doubt that Microsoft can out iOS Apple. But if Microsoft does do so I don't have any clear answer to that question because Cinema 4d is my main 3d axe and as far as I know from Maxon's website that application runs only on Mac and Windows systems.

chrono1081 said:
Please explain how adding features that allow better synching between a desktop and a mobile device is unprofessional?

I apologize if I gave you the misimpression that synching data is bad or unprofessional. I'd like better data synching. Just don't give me for my Mac Pro an application human user interface designed for an iDevice, unless they are both totally seamless, really useful, and don't dumb down my degree of control and interoperability.

...

chrono1081 said:
And, not to sound mean but I don't consider anyone that is unable to adapt to a simple change in an operating system a "pro" at anything. Technology changes, anyone claiming to be a pro should be able to adapt their workflow to fit.

I define a pro user differently. To me, it's not my ability to adapt my workflow to any of Apple's decisions and implementations that has anything to do with my pro status. In my view, my status as a pro is defined totally by whether and how I make use of tools in engaging in commerce or making a living. How well I adapt to Apple's changes may however affect my outcomes in commerce, but that may certainly also affect where I spend my money. On the other hand, if you are correct that pro status is truly determined by adaptive ability to computer systems and/or their software, I tend to think that all of my systems, especially including my WolfPack1, qualify me to at least approach pro status for 2009, 2010, 2011 and (and from what I been able to discern about Sandy Bridge E5 performance) for 2012 (see (i) sig below, (ii)URL contained therein, and (iii) [http://blogs.computerworld.com/geekbench_reveals_next_3_3ghz_mac_pro_update) ). Only some four or more processor systems are faster at both Geekbench 2 and Cinebench 11.5 and my fastest systems are underclocked.

chrono1081 said:
If you can't, then you get left behind in the dust.

That is a conjecture that time-past has already settled and time-future has yet to announce, namely, who'll be tasting someone else's dirt/dust going forward. Good luck.
 
I like you being honest and have to admit that 10.7.3 has been improvement in most of these areas I've mentioned. 10.6.7 worked OK. However even 10.7.3 is still not the same as 10.6.7 in respect of stability.
As I've wrote before, I do not mind integrating iOS features into OSX (as I am not forced to use most of them anyway) as long as they do not compromise the overall stability of OSX, which is unfortunately not the case with Lion.
I am not bashing anything and I really wish Mountain Lion will be better on stability than Lion was.

I here this "stability" thing occasionally, but is there any real empirical evidence that Lion is not as stable as SL? Your's, or a few other's, anecdotes don't prove a thing. I've been running Lion on a Mac Pro my PI bought for research purposes since about last August. Its the 2.4 8 core with 96 GB of RAM and 12 TBs, 9 in RAID, sitting in side it. I restart this computer on average maybe one to twice a month. I've done all the updates (10.7.3 through the combo, which was all that was available by the time I could afford a restart), and I've never seen a single hiccup. I push this computer nearly 24-7, and I generally push it pretty hard in one respect or another (ie something is very often bottle necked, writing to/reading from disk, RAM, all 8 cores occupied, something).

Previously I was working with an i7 iMac (2010) running SL, and granted it was a different, less capable machine, I also didn't push it very hard (mild photo shop use was about it really, everything else was generally on a cluster). However, that machine had mild instability problems. Maybe it was Adobe, maybe it was Snow Leopard, maybe it was the all-in-one box, but I had to restart it several times a week to keep it running OK. It wouldn't be too infrequent that I'd be doing something in photo shop or illustrator and it just quit on me. I'd have no option but to do a hard restart. I'm guessing this was really just an iMac problem, but like your evidence, its only anecdotal.
 
I here this "stability" thing occasionally, but is there any real empirical evidence that Lion is not as stable as SL? Your's, or a few other's, anecdotes don't prove a thing. I've been running Lion on a Mac Pro my PI bought for research purposes since about last August. Its the 2.4 8 core with 96 GB of RAM and 12 TBs, 9 in RAID, sitting in side it. I restart this computer on average maybe one to twice a month. I've done all the updates (10.7.3 through the combo, which was all that was available by the time I could afford a restart), and I've never seen a single hiccup. I push this computer nearly 24-7, and I generally push it pretty hard in one respect or another (ie something is very often bottle necked, writing to/reading from disk, RAM, all 8 cores occupied, something).

Previously I was working with an i7 iMac (2010) running SL, and granted it was a different, less capable machine, I also didn't push it very hard (mild photo shop use was about it really, everything else was generally on a cluster). However, that machine had mild instability problems. Maybe it was Adobe, maybe it was Snow Leopard, maybe it was the all-in-one box, but I had to restart it several times a week to keep it running OK. It wouldn't be too infrequent that I'd be doing something in photo shop or illustrator and it just quit on me. I'd have no option but to do a hard restart. I'm guessing this was really just an iMac problem, but like your evidence, its only anecdotal.

Here's an initial list of Lion issues, some of which you might file under stability issues, like mail offline for days, some of which you might just file under user complaints. I don't think it means a system that beach balls more often, but some of these "hairballs" haven't been far off. I'm sure they'll be gone by 10.7.9

http://macperformanceguide.com/index_topics.html#LionHairballs
 
Here's an initial list of Lion issues, some of which you might file under stability issues, like mail offline for days, some of which you might just file under user complaints. I don't think it means a system that beach balls more often, but some of these "hairballs" haven't been far off. I'm sure they'll be gone by 10.7.9

http://macperformanceguide.com/index_topics.html#LionHairballs

That kinda makes my point though. Most of those are pretty silly and easily corrected. Ie, the scrolling? That's a two second fix in the preferences. The fact that this, and several other things like it, even makes the list says about all that needs to be said.
 
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